Debbie Yunker Kail
It’s a beautiful embodiment of the type of collaboration that you can still find on campuses across the country. Today, we really feel like, you know, the, the the adage, like the rising was the rising tide raises all ships, this is very true. And we there’s all kinds of very interesting collaborations that you’ll see across the country that really do lift up all types of different students and celebrate their their needs and identities.

Heather Shea
Welcome to Student Affairs NOW the online learning community for Student Affairs educators. I am your co host, Heather Shea. Today my colleague Cody Nielsen and I are hosting this episode celebrating 100 years of Halal international on college and university campuses. In today’s episode, we’ll celebrate this milestone as well as reflect upon the impact of religion, spirituality and Jewish identity in higher education. In an age when higher education believes itself to be secular Hillel International, and its on campus presence continually proves that religious and spiritual identities matter in several significant ways. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and learning community for 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We hope you’ll find these conversations make a contribution to the field and our restorative to the profession. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays, find us at studentaffairsnow.com on YouTube or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Today’s episode is sponsored by Symplicity. A true partner Symplicity supports all aspects of student life with technology platforms that empower institutions to make data driven decisions. This episode is also brought to you by Stylus, visit styluspub.com and use promo code SAnow for 30% off and free shipping. Stay tuned to the end of the podcast for more information about each of these sponsors. As I mentioned, I’m your co host for today’s episode Heather Shea, my pronouns are she her and her and I am broadcasting from the ancestral traditional and contemporary lands the three fires confederacy of Ojibwe, Ottawa, and Potawatomi peoples, otherwise known as East Lansing, Michigan, home to the campus of Michigan State University where I work. Our university resides on land seated in the 1819 Treaty of Saginaw. And now I’m going to have Cody introduce himself. Welcome, Cody.

J. Cody Nielsen
Thank you. Hi there. It’s really great to be here. As you’ve already mentioned, my name is Cody Nielsen, I use he him and his pronouns. And I’m broadcasting today from Carlisle, Pennsylvania and Dickinson College, which is on the lands of the Susquehanna community. And its home of the former Carlisle Indian Industrial School, which is, unfortunately the first reprogramming school for native identities in the United States. I’m grateful to serve as co host on this episode and equally thrilled to have President and CEO of Hillel national Adam Lehman as well as Debbie Yunker Kail, the executive director of the Hillel Jewish students Center at Arizona State joining us. So welcome.

Adam Lehman
Thank you both so much for being here today. I’m, I’m thrilled for the conversation we’re about to have. I’d love to have each of you give our audience a bit of a longer introduction than just your professional titles and a little bit about maybe your journey to your work with Hillel. And so Adam, we’re going to have you start us off today.

Adam Lehman
Thank you so much. Thanks, Heather. Thanks, Cody, really grateful to be able to be a part of this conversation. As Cody mentioned, Adam Lehmann with Hillel International, grew up in Cleveland, Ohio, proud but always disappointed Cleveland sports fan, just, that’s the way it is. And even in terms of finding my way, to my current work at Hillel International, I think there are really two threads that brought me to this place on the one side, most of my professional career was was actually in entrepreneurship, working as a co founder and entrepreneur on a variety of technology media and similar new ventures. In fact, at a higher education level, I did spend a period of time four years I think, as an entrepreneur in residence at the University of Maryland. Innovation and Entrepreneurship Center. At the same time, in my personal life, I was very involved and invested in Jewish communal life and really in religious life and community more broadly. And I had the opportunity, you know, in my way of thinking about it, it was, you know, kind of heaven sent, I suppose, in terms of the opportunity to come in and work with the Hillel movement, which for me, was such a blessing because it was we’ll talk about has a really unique posture in terms of its pluralistic approach to Jewish life and its strong integration with the broader campus community. So when that opportunity afforded itself eight years ago, to me it was, as I said, a real blessing and I’m excited to be here as part of this conversation.

Heather Shea
Well, welcome. We’re really grateful for you giving us a little bit of your time today. I know you have a very, very busy schedule. So this is this is fantastic. Debbie, tell us

Debbie Yunker Kail
a little bit about you. Sure. And thanks so much for having me again Debbie Yunker Kail I use she her pronouns. And I have been the executive director for Hillel at Arizona State for about nine and a half years now. But been in Hillel. My whole career actually. So grew up in a Boston suburb, Framingham, Massachusetts for anyone listening who knows it. And when I was graduating from Emory University, I was looking for something meaningful to do with my psychology degree and happened upon had a strong Jewish identity but wasn’t so involved communally, and happened upon a fellowship opportunity for Hillel International, the precursor to what’s another Springboard fellowship, and great opportunity to move out to St. Louis worked at WashU for a couple of years, engaging uninvolved Jewish students in different types of opportunities, and through their got exposed to the field of higher education, admittedly did not know that was a career path available to me. I ended up getting a master’s in higher ed and I’m at NYU and always wanted to come back to the Hillel World. And so I did that after grad school, working at the University of Pennsylvania for seven years until I came out here. And so, Hillel kind of found me based on my passions, it just seemed to be a really great fit. And I’ve never really wanted to walk away from the college age population at that point. And so I’m really grateful to be here today. Also, in my roles through Hillel International, I also have the opportunity to to chair our directors cabinet, which affords me the opportunity to have more of a national viewpoint. So in addition to the work that we’re doing here, I work with colleagues from across the country on larger initiatives and issues that face our North American student population.

J. Cody Nielsen
Right. Excellent. Well, Debbie, thank you, as well for being here. I’m really looking forward to that sort of national as well as local conversation throughout. Okay, so we’re just going to sort of start at the top. You know, the name Hillel is very synonymous on college campuses as being around Jewish life. But there are a lot of folks that have sort of always maybe just asked, like, what is that Halal is about? And so you know, and I want to sort of start with the basics, like, can you give us an a sort of one sentence synopsis? What’s the purpose or the mission of Hillel is, and I’m sure from there, we will expand outward?

Adam Lehman
Yeah, Our stated mission is to enrich the lives of Jewish students so they can in turn enrich the Jewish people and the world. And I’d love to, you know, expand on that in terms of what it means today, because as you guys alluded to, we’re 100 years old. And so even the language is imbued, in part with what I would think of as legacy terms. But there’s a lot of vibrancy to how we take that notion of mission and translate it into our vision for today in the future.

J. Cody Nielsen
Yeah, yeah. Can Can we just talk about that sort of vision and maybe sort of like the current scope and sort of where Hillel is headed? And if you can sort of share about that for a couple minutes with us?

Adam Lehman
Yeah, absolutely. I’m gonna do it in that order. I’ll talk a little bit about big picture vision. Because as we celebrate our centennial, we’re on the one hand, of course, recalling and lifting up memories of the past 100 years, and the impact Hillel has had, but we’re also looking forward to the vision for the next 100 years. And as I think about that, I’m really looking at number one inclusivity we aim to be the most inclusive, Jewish student organization we can be and really, ideally, the most inclusive overall organization possible within the university landscape. Number two, going from inclusivity to imagination. You know, our vision is to inspire all the incredible young people we’re privileged to serve, to really open their minds through exposure to Jewish life, Jewish wisdom, Jewish practice, Jewish community, and CO create, what the Jewish future will be on campus and beyond. And then finally, you know, our vision revolves around impact we we are in the business, as we see it, of changing hearts, minds and lives. We want to be an awesome resource platform and partner to students in terms of their Jewish journeys and their overall personal journeys. So then that impact can extend extend across campus, we very much see ourselves as wanting to be in striving to be a great partner to the broader campus community. And then for that impact to extend you know, to the wider community and more Well, that’s, you know, at least ambitiously, what we’re hoping for, in terms of our role, relative to where we are in that process, which Cody gets to this question of, okay, like, where are you? And you know, how are you actually doing this work? We’re present on approximately 850 campuses. That is primarily in North America, although we are operating in 16 countries around the world. Some of the most inspiring work happening today at Hillel is in Ukraine, where we have five Hillels 46 Hill professionals, and now several 1000 students, Jewish and beyond, who are engaged in just such incredible work, volunteering, and serving their communities. And that work is powered by 1200 professionals who really are in their hearts and their core student affairs professionals. They are the life and soul of who we are as a movement. And Debbie’s a fantastic example of the kind of great leader and great student affairs professional in a Jewish life context, who powers and advances our work.

J. Cody Nielsen
Great, thank you.

Heather Shea
Wow, well, congratulations on celebrating 100 years that that is a phenomenal, you know, kind of milestone to hit. But also I love the thinking about where you’re headed in the future. Let’s take a moment though and look back, Debbie, I’m I’m really curious, what is the origin story of halal, and then to take it to the kind of more local level? If you could talk a little bit about how Hillel got started at your campus at Arizona State?

Debbie Yunker Kail
Sure. Yeah. Let’s just share both with you. They’re both interesting stories. And we’re always working to uncover more about our history here, locally is the the date that we’re established is a little bit of a moving target, but we’re narrowing in on it. So let’s let’s go national first so, so Hillel International, so the Hillel movement began in 1923, in a rented room above a barber shop in the college town, Champaign, Illinois. Rabbi Benjamin Frankel of lesson memory inaugurated the first program for a handful of Jewish students who were at the University of Illinois. And he, like we do today wanted to create a thriving vibrant Jewish community where all Jewish students can be together and be their whole selves. Which, you know, I’m sure we’ll get into a little bit sometimes Jewish people and other minorities Don’t, don’t always feel like they have the spaces. To do that. What’s interesting is that the kind of the pillars that he laid out for Hillel are still true. Today. This comes from the University of Michigan’s archives, talented professional staff education and learning, quote, beyond a Sunday school level. So, you know, I like to say, you know, our Jewish identity, sometimes your students come to college with maybe a 13 year old Jewish identity or a five year old Jewish identity, depending on and certainly some, with a fully grown 18 year old Jewish identity depending on what their background is, other pillars welcoming every student regardless of background or denomination, embracing Jewish values that make the world a better place and focusing of course on student leadership. ASU goes back pretty far also and has very similar values. So just real quick, our history is is kind of interesting. Congregation Beth Israel was one of the early synagogues here in town. And in 1938, a rabbi named Rabbi Abraham Lincoln chrome came to town to to lead that synagogue and soon after that sawed up to support Jewish students as well. And so they started meeting in this in this same space, which is what is now downtown Phoenix in a building that’s now the Arizona Jewish Historical Society, actually. And at some point, they started meeting in a shared space with the Methodists on campus, and for many, many years, Hillel and the Methodist group were intertwined in space and certainly certain programming as well. Eventually, in the early 80s, some supporters of Hillel and the Hillel students felt like they needed their own space for a variety of reasons and built the building that we currently occupy now. And so that building is aging and looking for some, some love and attention but has been there and served 1000s and 1000s of students throughout the years and just honestly embracing the same values that Rabbi Benjamin Frankel outlined so many years ago.

J. Cody Nielsen
You know, Debbie, I feel like I would be remiss without sort of adding in on this that this story of the experience at ASU around the Methodist is really parallel to to an origin story that I told to another time colleague of yours a few years ago about what I uncovered in some of my work around religious pluralism at the University of Illinois. So, the University of Illinois is sort of a seedbed for religion and spirituality and like a very significant set of ways. And as somebody who comes out of Christian privilege and also comes out of life formally as a United Methodist, the first Methodist campus ministry, known as the Wesley Foundation was founded in October of 1913, at the University of Illinois, too. But what was surprising is that when I learned about Laos founding founding in 1923, I also learned that part of it had to do with the Jewish community and the Jewish students at the University of Illinois, starting by going to the Methodist campus ministry and asking the den Reverend James Baker, if he could help support them. And there is some archival knowledge that like we seem to have that Baker was influential in helping to start that first halau. And then both of those communities were influential in helping to start the first Muslim Student Association at the University of Illinois in 1947. So I really feel like the story of Hillel is not only a story of the Jewish community, but such a deep, intrinsic story of religious pluralism and spirituality at large on our campus.

Debbie Yunker Kail
It’s a beautiful embodiment of the type of collaboration that you can still find on campuses across the country. Today, we really feel like, you know, the, the the adage, like the rising was the rising tide raises all ships, this is very true. And we there’s all kinds of very interesting collaborations that you’ll see across the country that really do lift up all types of different students and celebrate their their needs and identities.

J. Cody Nielsen
Yeah. Yeah, I think I think, Adam, I want to bring your voice into this a little bit more, because I want you to sort of see, you know, from your, from your level as the as the CEO of letter national, can you share about like, sort of what are the big highlights of of Hillel International’s impact on higher ed over that last 100 years?

Adam Lehman
Yeah, and what a big question, right 100 years, hundreds of institutions 10s of 1000s of professionals, millions of students and others who have walked in the door, but I would boil it down in the following way. Number one, when I look at, you know, Hillel’s impact within higher education, it does start with serving, supporting and inspiring Jewish students. And our ability to have impacted so many Jewish students over that 100 year period is, is I think, our most notable contribution within higher education and meaningful in that, as you point out, there was a need that was even recognized by other faith groups, for creating spaces for Jewish students at that point, in a moment where it was quite difficult for a lot of Jewish students to feel comfortable to feel accepted, to feel seen to be their whole selves in a higher education setting. And so having Hillel as that home as that place where they could be their full selves Jewishly. And beyond that, that has certainly defined our impact. And just to bring it forward all the way to this year, this year alone will have the privilege to engage more than 150,000 students in Hillel experiences and relationships. So that’s how we think about impact in that zone. As you and Debbie were just talking about, though, our impact does go beyond Jewish students. And we certainly have, at one level worked as an institution over the course of the last century to partner between Jewish student communities and other communities on campus. And, you know, I hope and believe that continues to be a meaningful part of how we drive impact and contribute. But beyond the kind of more formal ways that Hillel partners with other communities who we serve also extends well beyond Jewish students. It is not a typical to walk into a Shabbat on a Friday night at Hillel and find that 30% of the students there don’t come from a Jewish faith background or Jewish connection point. And that extends on to classes and other programs and leadership development. And we love that we love being that resource for all students where whatever Jewish life can offer at a communal level, again, in terms of wisdom, practice, and relationships that you know, that’s really an important impact. And then finally, we you know, I talked about us now it’s like 100 year old startup, right because we ended It’s very much of the higher education, space, higher education. I think it’s a bad rap sometimes in terms of being its own version of a legacy, you know, set of institutions. But the reality is, higher education is where young people congregate and are constantly reinventing. And they’re doing that in partnership with academics, but very much in partnership with Student Life professionals. And so Hillel has, you know, been this innovation lab. And so just as an example, we spent a lot of time and effort really rethinking what it meant to deliver powerful experiences and shifted a couple of decades ago, from a program driven model to a relationship based engagement model. And that not only helped to transform how we do our work at Hillel, but I think our third impact is, at our best, we’re able to model for other communities and for higher education institutions more broadly, different ways to go about impacting students.

Adam Lehman
I want to know what yeah, no.

J. Cody Nielsen
I want to sort of follow up with that a little bit, because I want to ask a little bit more, if you can sort of help us understand that turning point, that sort of relationship model. Can you just share a little bit more on that? Because you just mentioned and I don’t want to leave that hanging?

Adam Lehman
Yeah, no, wonderful. And I want to make one correction, I think I refer to engaging 150 students, that’s 150,000 students, if it didn’t come out, right the first time. I mean, every individual student is of great meaning for us. And, you know, the aggregate is, is at around 50,000. I’ll pass it to Debbie, you know, who actually has been in the work in terms of that relationship based engagement model the talk more about what that represents on campus.

Debbie Yunker Kail
I think it’s a good moment just to share my own story, because that’s what made me feel connected. I kind of referenced I wasn’t so involved. Organizationally, even in college. Initially, my connection to the Hillel at Emory was through staff that took a personal interest in me, how are you doing? What’s going on in your life? How can we support you, and that led to some, you know, involvement in I was very active in my sorority in led to involvement in the Jewish Greek Council there at the time, that led to me going on a trip to Israel, when birthright was very early on. In its establishment, it didn’t lead to me feeling obligated or guilted into showing up to every single Jewish event, just because they knew me or were friends, they really with me, they really cared about me as a person and helped connect me to the right opportunities. And that’s really what inspired me to build my career around this. And that’s what that means a program focused model is, we know you, you should come to everything we’re doing, we’re gonna make sure you know about it any way that we can, that technology permits, which of course, is varied over the years, and this relationship model is all about making sure that we really understand who students are and are connected them for the right opportunities, or CO creating new opportunities with them. Even as recently as the semester at Arizona State, for example, that means creating a new Wellness Learning fellowship. Like many other Hillels, we teach a slew of classes every semester, that that students can take. And we were just hearing a lot around students caring about wellness, wanting to think about how that that intersects with Jewish ideas and values and their identity. And some students that are the ones who kind of maybe the ones that their friends come to a lot, were saying, I want to take care of my own wellness, and I want to do a better job supporting my friends, because you know, I’m the I’m the one people seek out for advice. And so this Wellness Learning fellowship was co created with a couple of students and our senior Jewish educator Rabbi Susie stone. And so from when I was in college, and you know, a little bit before that, and to today, that’s what it means to be focused on relationships above programs. And by the way, hellos across the country, across North America, and probably across the world are reaching more students now. And so we’re actually able to have a broader impact. But I would say also a deeper impact by shifting by shifting to this, this way of deploying our, our efforts. Wow,

Heather Shea
I had no idea. But this all makes sense. Now, we have a really strong Hillel at Michigan State University. And so I now see some of the ways in which that has has really fostered those connections. Debbie, thank you, too, for telling us a little bit about your story. You mentioned wellness in particular, and I am really interested in maybe the broader perspective, what what are the experiences of Jewish students on college and university campuses? In North America, I think probably is where our audience is mostly. So US and Canada.

Debbie Yunker Kail
Yeah. So, I mean, like, like a lot of other college students, today, there’s a lot in common, right? concerns around mental health and wellness are right top of the line. Navigating even wherever we, you know, navigating the repercussions of the COVID pandemic, as it continues is a big one, whether it’s supporting students who maybe missed a year or two of high school in person, and now we’re coming to college with a very different identity than then what we have seen in the past is really big economic concerns, what will the job market look like and things that are dominating the headlines like gun violence and reproductive justice? major concerns, I would say, especially, you know, looking at Michigan State, if you look at the news around Arizona, and guns, there’s there’s some stuff even you know, as of this week, and so those are things I’d say that are, I’m sure sound familiar to most folks in our audience. But you know, I didn’t, I didn’t want to leave them out. And of course, layer this on top of regular college stressors, relationships, doing stuff on your own for the first time, you know, career, all of these things, and then so around Jewish identity, I think there’s a couple of things. Certainly, this is a great place to, to mention the rise in anti semitism that is of concern to us as professionals. And to many students, I’d say it’s playing out in a lot of different ways. For some students it’s creating, it’s motivating them to take on new leadership roles, and to really advocate for support and their Jewish identity. And we’re seeing for others, it’s really motivating them to hide, or at least to hide that piece of their Jewish identity. And to not, you know, I would say publicly out themselves, as Jewish. And this kind of goes to the second challenge around being Jewish today, which is that the multifaceted nature of what an any individual might mean when they say, I’m Jewish, is complicated and confusing. And so in 2023, that means a lot of different things. It might mean cultural, religious, spiritual, all of those, and more. And so what college students I’d say you’re dealing with today is trying to figure out just like they’re trying to express how to define themselves in other ways how to find the right language to an education to backup how they’re seeing themselves, is Jewish is for some students, it’s top of mind. And I’d say for those that it’s not that’s really Hillels role is to encourage them to think about that. And to help them graduate college feeling like they can articulate the type of Jewish adult that they’re that they’re hoping to become, or to continue being but it’s really a complex thing, what it means to say that you’re Jewish, and we see a lot of that.

Adam Lehman
Cody, I’m gonna interject, because I think actually, I want to go to the question that specifically talks about this number seven, because I think we can build upon what Debbie just said, because I think what you noted is so critical that Jewish students are varied in how they relate to Judaism. And I think from a student affairs administrator perspective, you know, how can both we as administrators, as well as our partners in Hillel, better support Jewish students and other minorities on our campuses? And so either Debbie do want to pick that up first or Adam either one of you, I think, How can we continue to improve upon recognizing this fact that do students have different ways that they relate?

Adam Lehman
I’m happy to dive in. But I,

Heather Shea
we didn’t queue this to one of your notes.

Adam Lehman
Who had not all happily, okay. The comments look like

Debbie Yunker Kail
I mean, there’s, there’s so many ways that that we work well with administrators and that we aspire to work even more closely with administrators. And it runs the gamut from things like acknowledging calendar, to participating in educational opportunities to understand the variety of of ways that students do define themselves as Jewish and to, to open up opportunities to educate paraprofessionals around that too, I think, which are often the frontlines. So residents life students that are working in Residence Life, the students that are working in the student unions across the country, and you know, students that are working in the fitness centers like do they are they trained on Jewish identity in the same ways that they’re trained in other aspects of cultural and religious diversity? I think one really easy thing is knowing that being Jewish is a is a religion, and that’s something I think we could all start doing better on. So when someone says they’re Jewish it’s off When harkening back to a connectedness to Jewish peoplehood, to this, the history of this people that has survived and persisted for 1000s and 1000s of years, we’re just coming off of the Jewish holiday of Purim, one of the many holidays that celebrates Jewish persistence and survival. And that is kind of embedded into our psyche. In, in amongst the Jewish people, and I think the other thing is kind of the trauma of being Jewish often is embedded in to people’s psyche in different ways. And so understanding that, that just is not is not more or less than what other minorities experienced or need, but should exist alongside what other minorities need is something that I think really needs a closer looking at.

Adam Lehman
Yeah, yeah. And I would add a couple things. Because this is so critical in terms of our fulfilling our mission, you know that we are a resource to colleagues and partners across campus in better understanding Jewish students, and therefore enabling Jewish students to have the same kind of, hopefully, safe, successful and thriving student experiences that we want for all students. I think in terms of how we accomplish that, number one, if you’re a student affairs, or other administration professional, leaning into more intentional learning, as it relates to the Jewish student population, like hopefully is happening with other student populations, I think that is is an important step, you can’t just assume knowledge based on someone you knew or where you grew up, or a show you watched. As Debbie said, there is just an enormous amount of diversity right now within the Jewish student population, and being able to appreciate that being able to hear what their unique pathways and experiences are, I think is really meaningful. We have a lot of campuses where the Hila has partnered with a university administration to create those kinds of learning and listening sessions. And that that’s simple, but it’s so powerful. Additionally, at the hill international level, we’ve created something called the Campus Climate Initiative, where we actually take administration partners who generally include student affairs professionals, diversity, equity, inclusion officers, bias reporting officers, all the way up to presidents and chancellors through, you know, an 18 month process where they have the opportunity to do structured learning about the nature of the Jewish student experience about the contemporary ways in which anti semitism shows up because that also really has shifted and morphed over recent years compared to the manifestations people were familiar with decades ago. So finding those ways to learn, I think, puts everyone on the Student Affairs and Administration side in a much stronger position. And at Hillel, we really want to be a great partner in in advancing that process. Much as and, you know, I want to go to pains to say it. You know, we’re very much cognizant that there are a lot of communities on campus in the Jewish student community. Number one is just one community. Number two Jewish students are not just Jewish students, almost all Jewish students have multiple identities, right? Sometimes religiously, even. But certainly, you know, more than 20% of the students we see at Hillel identifies as Jews of color. And so we we want to make opportunities available for learning about the Jewish student experience in parallel with what we know, our colleagues on campus need to pursue in relation to all communities.

Debbie Yunker Kail
That say, disability is another area where there’s a significant overlap in supporting Jewish students with disabilities. This, this may veer into kind of what academic services can do to support Jewish students. But something that we see a lot is, you know, the Jewish holidays often come towards the beginning of the school year, and we may have students with disabilities that are already asking for other types of accommodations at the beginning of the school year, and then on top of that are looking for accommodations around what would be an excused absence it I would assume most colleges and universities and something that I’ve worked on a lot at Arizona State is finding ways to kind of more proactively let students know that that is that’s permitted to for them to ask for these accommodations. And I think something student affairs professionals can do as early as in preparation for orientation is giving students the tools and this would go to all all students that might need some type of accommodation like giving students the tools that they need to speak up for themselves. Do you think about, especially first year students coming to college for the first time students might need a all types of different accommodations. Jewish students need these excused absences often and it’s the beginning of the year. They don’t want the rise of anti semitism, but we hear some are concerned about even sharing that their Jewish. So early on in their year, they don’t want to miss class when they’re just brand new to school. And often administrators will say like, well, of course, that that’s why these religious exemption policies are in place. Of course, they can have the time and college is an important time for them to learn to advocate for themselves. And we totally agree. And that’s why Hillel is there. And we still see a lot of students hesitate to advocate for themselves, because they’re living in 2023. And they’re seeing violence against us and other minorities around the country. And they don’t, they don’t want to inadvertently make themselves a target. And so I think that the more that universities and colleges can take a step beyond having a policy and kind of proactively supporting students and asking for what they need to be successful academically, I think the more Jewish students will start to see that more proactive embracing versus what often we might see is just kind of like a passive inclusion.

J. Cody Nielsen
Yeah, I think Debbie, this is really like stirring for me this this conversation on the calendar that you’ve sort of mentioned twice, you know, earlier and then and then very specifically around the Jewish holidays. That this becomes a conversation around equity based concerns and and NDI. And I’m just wondering, you know, maybe if, Adam, maybe we can bring your voice into this, you know, if you can talk about how, and I’m going to use a nomenclature of religious, secular and spiritual, which is what the caste standards is using now. But can you talk about how religious secular and spiritual identities could be included as a sort of core aspect of campus diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging efforts and sort of take this even to the next step in this?

Adam Lehman
Yeah, I mean, I think it starts where you ended, Cody, which is, you know, those religious, spiritual and secular identities do need to be, you know, fully incorporated into DEI frameworks, whether those are educational frameworks, training frameworks, bias reporting, frameworks, and response frameworks. You know, we really appreciate that there are so many aspects of diversity, equity and inclusion that DEI officers and professionals are focused on. And we certainly don’t want, again, to limit that focus or privilege in any one direction. At the same time, the students we see, by definition, are viewing their Jewish identity as a core element of how they see themselves and want to be seen in the world. And, you know, that in and of itself, to me would be, you know, we’re going to head towards Passover, you know, it would have been enough, it would have been enough, if students were simply looking to make sure that their core identities were seen in the process. But on top of that, we do have so many Jewish students who are feeling, you know, affirmatively harassed, marginalized, isolated, in different contexts. And, you know, that merits hearing that, you know, acknowledging it, honoring it, and addressing those concerns, because in environments where Jewish students who are again, it could be students coming from other Muslim students, students coming from other faith backgrounds, who are feeling the effects of marginalization or exclusion. When those concerns are put on a different level or not seen and acknowledged, it’s just so hurtful, problematic, painful, or worse, in terms of what comes out the other side of it. And again, I’ll just point out one particular side effect that we’re seeing which, and Debbie alluded to it, but just Data Wise. Our team in Ontario just did a pulse survey, where more than 50% of the students surveyed said they felt like they needed to hide their Jewish identity. And just out of a sense of concern for what the safety or other implications would be if they were fully public about about that Jewish identity. And so having the AI frameworks that recognize that issue, and again, not that we have all the solutions, but we really are investing in entire teams to partner with DEI offices to help with the macro. PRO data, the macro kind of education on these issues, as well as what constructive policy changes can be, I will, as one particular area of policy, or actually I’ll, one is bias reporting. Unfortunately, there is sometimes a blockage when it comes to Jewish students reporting concerns, we hear frequently from their students that they’re, they’re basically told, not our department, that’s no, that’s more political, or that’s a religious issue that’s different than what we address here. So number one, coming up with a bias reporting framework that is truly inclusive, you know, at that level of religion and spirituality, as well as kind of ethnic community. And then number two, what I call educational equity, it is it seems very impactful right now that so many institutions are educating professionals, students, staff, when it comes to understanding discriminatory practice, understanding how discrimination actually manifests in higher education. You know, that should include, in our case, antiSemitism training, so we actually are developing easy ways for dei professionals to incorporate that kind of content, you know, in the education and training activities.

J. Cody Nielsen
You know, Debbie, I want to bring your voice in here because you’re living it on the ground. Like we’re not saying that Adams not but you’re living it on the ground here a little bit and and have been doing so. So I’m wondering like, add to this, help us, help us understand that sort of that, that yeah, intersection of conversation happening on the ground. But as

Debbie Yunker Kail
I was thinking, I would be remiss without adding one of my Arizona State pieces, which is the calendar is near and dear to me, because one of the projects I worked on, when I was on the committee for campus inclusion here was around the calendar and working to we so we already our council of religious advisors here reviews the religious calendar annually. But we were working to add some educational components on this committee to the calendar so that you might click on a particular Native American festival, or Jewish or Muslim holiday and learn a little bit or click, click through to a link through that we were also working to, and we sit on the student services side. And so we were we’ve been looking into how to work with provost office around this messaging out to faculty, which at the largest public university in the country is not a small feat. And we certainly don’t want to be unnecessarily calling out. Professors who for the most part are doing a great job supporting students and their different needs. And so I guess, like what I’ve been thinking about, is both like how to build how to bridge on the ground to national, and I’ve benefited so much from being part of this national organization, Hillel international. And when and I know student affairs professionals benefit so much being part of their national international associations. And so you wouldn’t leads me to think like, what can we be doing on the national level that will trickle back down and what Hillel professionals often share our best practices on working with, whether it’s admissions or Career Services, or counseling, or our local founder, or, you know, university foundations? For those of us that are public? You know, what, I’m curious, you know, what more the student affairs professional associations can be doing in collaboration with Hillel that would kind of help navigate some of these things, and then trickle down best best practices back. And so it’s certainly like, what I’m living on the ground. But it’s also, especially for those of us at public universities. It’s, it’s tough, right? We want to honor the way that our institutions are founded, and the way that they exist in the world. And we have specific student needs that we’re trying to advocate for. And I’ve really appreciated, you know, at Arizona State, that often means for me learning a lot about other groups that I didn’t know as much about and finding ways to support them, which is probably why I’ve been so intentional about mentioning that at every chance I’ve had because it’s certainly I’m first and foremost, the director of the Hillel Jewish students center. And we, there’s so many students that need this additional support. And so, you know, I am eager to think about what that looks like through some additional national collaborations. Years and years ago, Hillel and ACPA were doing some things together. I know Hillel and NASPA also. And so, I think that that might be an interesting, you know, next thing because like on the ground, things are decent here. I’m really grateful for the partnerships that we have at Arizona State and I know that many of my executive director colleagues would say the same at their respective colleges and universities and there’s more opportunities to continue to grow in these partnerships too.

Adam Lehman
Yeah, if I can add here to, I would want to point out a couple things more in the positive channel. Number one is Debbie just said, there’s actually tremendous partnership happening right now locally on campuses, between Hillel professionals and their colleagues and partners across campus. It really, it’s a hallmark of who we are, as Hillel there are, as you guys are probably familiar, several different Jewish related organizations that show up and campus spaces, one of the things we really work to focus on as Hillel is being an indispensable partner, to the universities where we exist. And so that’s, you know, something that’s different, actually about the hill mindset and also the hill approach to supporting students. The other thing I want to celebrate is even Cody, relative to the question of how, how can dei offices and approaches better incorporate, you know, religious spirit, spiritual and secular communities, looking at it from the Jewish community landscape? Just next month alone, we’re going to have 150 Administrative Professionals from 40 universities coming together for a discussion about exactly that topic, how can you know DEI offices, continue to better understand the needs of Jewish students and address their concerns. That’s happening, as I said, in North Carolina, through our campus climate initiative, and if anyone listening wants to learn more about CCI, the campus climate initiative, you can follow up with me, who leads it mark is the former general counsel of University of Minnesota and Johns Hopkins University. So we again really work to leverage higher education expertise and in, in how we grow in this this part of the work.

Heather Shea
That that is a great suggestion. And I think for those who are watching today, who are student affairs, educators on campuses, beyond that, what other advice would you give to Student Affairs educators, practitioners to improve their own understanding, right, like we often do, encourage folks to, you know, not just ask, you know, people to give, but like, what are the ways in which we can do some of that self work in understanding and connecting to Jewish students and Hillel on their campuses? Adam, do you want to continue that thought?

Adam Lehman
Sure, sure. I’ll jump into start, but I would definitely invite Debbie to chime in as well. I think, number one, I just circled back to my prior comment, which is, the more that in official capacities, you know, student affairs educators, and other professionals can convene. listening sessions can, you know, convene ways to hear directly from, you know, diverse set of Jewish students on the campus? You know, that’s an awesome opportunity. The second thing I would say, is show up at Hillel, we love to have our partners from campus and you don’t have to even show up announced always you can, you know, show up for an event show for program. We learn and grow through having the presence of, you know, campus partners there. And I do think, you know, for Student Affairs educator, it’s just a great window into not only how have Jewish students or students who were involved in Jewish life, would talk about their experience, but seeing and being a part of that experience, I think, is really impactful. And the final, you know, suggestion, at least from a hill point of view, is to, you know, keep an eye out for these growing opportunities to either be a part of the campus climate initiative, or attend one of our sessions at NASPA, as Debbie mentioned, you know, we’ve had partnership there, and we continue to provide more programming in partnership with some of these higher education and student affairs organizations. We just did a program in partnership with ACE, which was focused on issues of recognizing and addressing campus anti semitism. So I think, you know, between talking to students showing up at a Hillel, or showing up one of these sessions, those are great pathways and if people listening have other suggestions for how we can help beyond those channels, we’d love to hear it.

Debbie Yunker Kail
So I would say you know, for the, for the Student Affairs practitioners, you know, and student life offices and Residence Life and career services and some of the you know, frontlines things like look for opportunities for partnership so often that might just mean taking the meeting when one of us reaches out out, we just those are my favorite meetings, like, let’s just get to know each other so that we can understand how we might partner. And it takes a little bit of time. But it’s also a lot more authentic and kind of goes back to our relationship based approach. In general, I often, you know, I might have an ask or something if I reach out, but I often am just trying to get to know another colleague on campus and make sure I understand how their office functions so that we can seek partnerships. So I’d say take the meeting include education, in an orientations and RA trainings. I love the idea of coming to Hillel. We all love welcoming administrators of all levels. That Hello, and I would say if if something feels hard, like if we’re trying to find a partnership, and it feels hard, maybe just being as transparent as possible with your Hillel counterparts about what what’s hard about it, is it Where are we the first time that we’re going to be doing something like this? Is it confusing? Because are we religious or cultural? And it’s not clear, but we’re both like what is hard about it, and maybe like invite us into problem solving together? I’ve found that when I’ve been able to do that we again, we learn much more about each other, and we can continue to support each other. For us at Arizona State. I mean, one way is collaborating on some outreach to high school students, for example, how do we do that? What’s hard about that? What’s easy about that, and that’s, that’s different for, for different campuses. But there’s so many ways to partner, I think nothing replaces a listening session. But if it’s questions about a holiday, you know, the internet could be our friend, right? Make sure that you understand the basics of major Jewish holidays, so that if you have Jewish students in your clubs that you advise or on your floors that you live on, that you you might be able to share a factor to or ask students where they’re learning, what accounts are they following? What websites are they looking at, if they’re looking at it, you know, that those kinds of things really just asking the question is really meaningful.

J. Cody Nielsen
I really just appreciate the last few minutes of our conversation because I just want to want to name something that as a non Halal professional, and also as a non Jew in this space, I find to be such an important part of this conversation. And that is that the work of supporting religious secular and spiritual identities and Jewish identities is everybody’s work. And I think that, like you’ve named so many areas of the campus, and you know, we’ve sort of named this sort of Student Affairs overreach. And of course, you know, this podcast is called Student Affairs now, but it’s an Academic Affairs Conversation with faculty and administrators on the faculty side as much as is amongst the student affairs professionals. And that’s at all aspects from everything when I say from admissions to advancement. And so there’s always a place to, and I like this listening session idea that if you, if you as a practitioner are struggling to be like, This isn’t my area of focus, like religious life is something over here. That’s not necessarily is true. And in fact, by actually having those conversations with you all, as professionals, I think the folks listening on this podcast and viewing this today are going to find out real fast, just how dynamic and inter weaved the work of Jewish life is in every core aspect. So you know, the last thing I’m thinking here, as we sort of wrap up and get, you know, move toward this is, is, is you all, and the work of Hillel professionals is so dynamic across those 850 campuses across the world. And we want to hear, you know, any last thoughts that you guys want to have, but also how to be in connection with all of you, maybe it’s with the two of you, maybe it’s just with your Hillel professionals? And if you want to sort of leave those lasting thoughts for us, as we get close to wrapping up. And Adam, if you want to sort of go first here.

Adam Lehman
Yeah, well, I just want to start with gratitude. It’s so appreciative of the conversation and Heather, Cody, thank you guys for including us in in enabling it. In terms of, you know, final thought I just want to leave with a thought of opportunity and an optimism we see in our work, as I said, 150,000 young people that were able to serve as part of the broader higher education landscape. And we all know and anyone working at a higher education knows they’re incredibly young people who have the potential to solve problems on campus. And then, you know, there’s the notion of tikkun olam, repairing the world to actually, you know, Vault forward to solve the big problems facing us in the world. And I just want to make sure that anyone listening knows that we’re committed to being awesome partners in that process. And that, you know, we start from not, again, not a privilege set of content or or wisdom but a unique set in terms of, you know, 1000s of years of Jewish history, wisdom, Community and practice, and so on. Um, we’re excited to, you know, promote dialogue across difference and breakthrough polarization. We’re excited to take on the challenges of the student experience when it comes to mental health, wellness, wholeness, we’re excited to, you know, Cody, as you said, make sure that, you know, the identities that our students care about and want to cultivate, are seen and recognized as part of all students having their identities, understood and recognized, and we’re excited to continue to make higher education, you know, the special place it was for me when I was on campus, and you know, even as a parent, having seen my daughter’s just go through their college career. So looking forward to partnering with with everyone through the process.

Debbie Yunker Kail
I think for me, final thoughts. Also, I feel really optimistic about the future partnerships. And the potential for partnerships is one of the things that probably keeps me energized and excited that we, you know, we don’t know what’s gonna come next. But we know that it’s good. And so I would invite the same thing connecting with me on LinkedIn, or reaching out at Instagram on Instagram at ASU Hillel. My personal Instagram is probably a little boring, unless more about food and kids. So you know, we’ll stick to LinkedIn for now. But I I just want to say thank you, to everyone, to you guys for having us. Look, I’d say my final thought is that we are all in this together. And so Heather, when I was listening to your podcast a couple of weeks ago about your experiences at Michigan State, I mean, that was what I thought time and time again. Hillel professional and student affairs staff, we’re here for the whole student, whatever they’re going through that day is who we see and what we care about. And I think that there’s much more similarity, then there is difference across Hillel professionals and Student Affairs together. And I’m just excited for the future about new connections that this podcast might bring opportunities that that are yet to come. And again, just so appreciative for for this conversation today. So thank you guys.

Heather Shea
Oh my gosh, thank you so much. I am thrilled that we’re able to amplify this conversation and also provide insight and opportunity for folks who haven’t yet had an opportunity to connect with Hillel on their campus to do so. We Cody and I are so grateful for your time today. And also all of the contribution to the conversation on the back end from the folks at Hello International. I’d be remiss if I didn’t shout them out as well. So thank you to everyone. Also, huge heartfelt appreciation to the dedicated behind the scenes work of our producer. Nat Ambrosey makes us look and sound great. And if you’re listening today, and perhaps this is the first time you’ve listened to Student Affairs NOW podcast, please go to our website. You can also there, subscribe to our weekly newsletter, and you’ll receive an email in your inbox every Wednesday. You know that we’ll just highlight what the new episode of that week is. So you can also check out your archives as well. So if you found this conversation helpful if you can share it on your social media platforms that would also be amazing. Thanks today again to our sponsors. Symplicity is the global leader in student services technology platforms with state of the art technology that empowers institutions to make data driven decisions specific to their goals. A true partner to the institution Symplicity supports all aspects of student life including but not limited to Career Services and Development, Student Conduct and well being student success and accessibility services. And you can learn more by visiting symplicity.com or connect with them on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and Stylus is proud to be a sponsor for Student Affairs NOW podcasts you can browse their student affairs, diversity and professional development titles at styluspub.com. And you can use promo code SAnow for 30% off all of their books plus free shipping, and you can find them on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram and Twitter @styluspub. Please take a moment to visit the our website click on sponsors link to learn more. Again. I’m Heather Shea thanks again to my co host Cody Nielsen. And to all of our listeners and who are watching today. Make it a great week everyone

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