Rebecca “Becka” Shetty
I’m just sort of gonna briefly synthesize every thing everyone else said into two things, which is really don’t make assumptions and don’t give up. I think that’s what I’m taking away from this as someone who is new to work working with commuter students, that assumptions I make tend to be wrong. And there’s just, you fill in the gaps with information that’s not accurate. And so I’m not making assumptions and then not giving up. It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work to get this right. It’s a lot of work to be intentional, but our students deserve that from us. And so don’t give up and keep doing the hard work.

Heather Shea
Welcome to Student Affairs NOW the online learning community for Student Affairs educators, I am your host, Heather Shea. Today we’re going to be talking all about commuter students. A topic near and dear to my heart as one of my very first professional roles after graduate school was serving as the coordinator of commuter Student Affairs at the University of Arizona. When I came into that position, I quickly learned that it’s much more complicated than simply who lives on campus and who doesn’t. And on today’s episode, we’re going to unpack this topic in greater detail, aiming to provide some good resources for our listeners to better understand and support the commuter students on their campuses. Student Affairs NOW is a premier podcast and learning community for 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student Affairs. We hope you’ll find these conversations make a contribution to the field and our restorative to the profession. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays and you can find us at studentaffairsnow.com on YouTube, or anywhere you listen to podcast. Today’s episode is sponsored by Symplicity. A true partner Symplicity supports all aspects of student life with technology platforms that empower institutions to make data driven decisions. This episode is also brought to you by stylus, visit styluspub.com and use promo code sanow for 30% off and free shipping. Stay tuned to the end of the podcast for more information about each of these sponsors. As I mentioned, I’m your host Heather Shea, my pronouns are she her and hers and I am broadcasting from East Lansing, Michigan on the campus of Michigan State University. MSU occupies the ancestral traditional and contemporary lands of the three fires confederacy of a jib Way Ottawa, and Potawatomi peoples, and the university resides on land seated in the 1819 Treaty of Saginaw. Thank you all so much for joining today. I’m going to turn my gallery view back on. We have an awesome panel today of folks who are going to approach this topic from all different vantage points. In your introduction, if you could tell us a little bit about your role on your campus and what brought you to the episode today. And I’m going to kick it off with Pietro. Welcome,

Pietro A. Sasso
everybody. I am Dr. Pietro Sasso. I’m a faculty member did education leadership at Austin and some of my research intersects with with you know, with you commuter students, my pronouns are he him.

Heather Shea
Awesome. Thank you so much for being here, Pietro Lacey, welcome.

Lacey Folsom
Thank you. So my name is Lacey Folsom. She her hers. And I’m the Director of Student Engagement here at Stephen F. Austin, where my role is to create experiences and programs for all of our students, both residential and commuter.

Heather Shea
So glad you’re here. Thank you so much, Cara. Welcome.

Cara White
Hello, everyone. My name is Cara White. I use she her pronouns. I’m the Director of Campus programs at Rutgers University. Similar to Lacey. My role was all about engaging our students on campus. But I also was a commuter student, so I have an interest in just making sure we’re serving that population.

Heather Shea
Great. I love it. Lots of connections. So welcome, welcome back, I should say.

Suchitra Webster
Hi, Heather, and all thank you so much. Suchitra Webster. I use she her pronouns. And I am the Director of Student and Community Relations here at Michigan State University, working with student life and engagement and also with our Office of Government Relations, and really working in the space where the university intersects with the surrounding community. So it certainly involves all of our students, but it also involves, you know, public safety, law enforcement, municipalities, landlords, property managers, etc. So, lots of interesting partnerships.

Heather Shea
I love it. That’s great. And Becka

Rebecca “Becka” Shetty
Hi there. I’m Dr. Becka Shetty. I am the director of the bullet Student Leadership Center at the University of Texas Arlington. I was invited to the episode by Dr. Sasso through some professional connections. Because the University of Texas Arlington is a heavily commuter campus. We serve a really diverse population of students, many non traditional students, so I thought I might have something to contribute. I use she her hers pronouns, and the University of Texas Arlington. We acknowledge that we are on the indigenous land that was once occupied by the Wichita and affiliated tribes as well as other indigenous tribes of the Kado nation.

Heather Shea
Thanks so much for being here. And Alexis.

Alexis Lambert
Hello, everyone. My name is Alexis Lambert I use she her hers pronouns. Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here. Quite naturally, there’s a dog barking as I’m working from home. And so those are some of the things that our commuter students are facing as well. So hopefully having the opportunity to lean into that a little bit. And as Dr. Shetty mentioned, I’m also at the University of Texas at Arlington, where our campus is heavily commuter, populated, so very excited to talk with you all in my colleagues as well today.

Heather Shea
Great. Well, like I said, we have a we have a large panel today, lots of different vantage points, I think this is going to be a great conversation. We’re going to start off with some basic definitions, though. And I know that this varies pretty significantly from campus to campus. But Pietro, can you tell us how do we define commuter student?

Pietro A. Sasso
Yeah. So we define them in terms of space, right? So well, really, it’s about space in place, right? So where do students live? Rather than where are they engaged? Right? And so like, and so the way we frame it is, it’s kind of a deficit framing, right? If you don’t live on campus, therefore, you are less involved. Right? So we think of it not in terms of like student of student involvement, or you or university engagement, but more about where students live. And so the theater label is kind of this 1980s concept of like, you drive into campus, you park in a parking deck, or a lot, and then you walk to the student center, and then you get your meal, and you go to class and you walk away, right. So the the the ideal, or the way we’re defining theater students, I think, is an older construct and an older concept, right. And so it’s a lot more complicated now. And so I think there are layers and more sophistication to how we think about who they are. And so typically, I like to think of them as in multiple groups, right? You know, via you have your online or learners, right, who would be commuter, right? You have what I call a Reza muter students, so they’re a student who is residential, but it’s still walkable to campus. Right. And, you know, you know, they live in privatize off campus complexes, off campus students streets, they might live in off campus Greek life housing, or their students who live on campus and live in kind of university sponsored housing, like a p3 or something like that. And then you have your true resume, your two kind of residential students who may have lived on campus the first couple of years and, and move off into privatize off campus student focused housing. And then you have, you know, your traditional commuter student that that we think of as someone that lives at home, a growing segment that we often don’t think about our students who who live you ever with some kind of partner. And in the research I’ve done, we’re finding a lot more resident, or a lot more formally, residential students meet and fall in love on campus, and then they move in with their partner, right? I think that’s a beautiful, fun story. And so students are cohabitating with their partners more. And so these are sophomores, juniors, seniors, these are these are traditional undergraduate age students. Right. So who and where they live, I think it’s changing. I think the other thing, you know, we’re also seeing is we’re rethinking about the ways in which we engage students. And so I think we’ll spend a lot of time on that as well. So I think, you know, we have a lot of myths.

Heather Shea
Yeah. Yeah. What else would other folks add? You know, I mean, I’m curious about does where or with whom they live matter. You know, the distance in which you know, students might need to travel to get to campus. I’m just kind of curious about other other ways of defining commuter students and how that plays out on your campus.

Cara White
I can share at Rutgers University, our commuter students are those that we consider those that live at their permanent address. And then our off campus are those that are non residential, but may live on student rental properties or within the local community. For Rutgers, we’re spread out across five campuses and so we Do you have a lot of students that commute to our respective locations, but there are different offices that serve those populations, though the students can engage with any of them, depending on what resources or programs they need. And that’s our commuter students are generally supported greatly through our Student Involvement and Leadership office, and our off campus students on generally get support from our off campus, living in community partnerships office.

Heather Shea
Okay, that adds a little bit more to the, to the larger picture. It’s interesting having multiple campus and students kind of commuting in between, as well.

Rebecca “Becka” Shetty
chime in, oh, I can chime in a bit. Um, so for our camps, I am a year new to our campus. So I would, I would need to talk to other colleagues, if we have a written definition somewhere, which I don’t know that we do. We do have an entire department dedicated to off campus, right, you know, this department that is meant to serve our commuting students and students that live off campus, which is a vast majority of our students. However, when I think again, about this definition, and who sort of falls into this category, we do have students who are traditionally age versus non traditional students, I like this idea of that idea of a permanent residence, whatever that means to someone for our population. And we’re going to, I think, talk a little bit about this in terms of location of your institution a little bit later. For us, we are in the Greater Dallas Fort Worth area. And so we draw very heavily from the Dallas Fort Worth area for a lot of traditionally age students who are living at home with parents. And so for our campus, we do that is a massive population for us. So they’re traditionally age, but they’re living at home with families with siblings. And so it’s, it’s, for us, that’s a huge portion of those folks, in addition to the to the non traditional students who may live at a permanent residence, but have a partner have a family might even be working on this side, a lot of our students work. And so that’s another thing to consider within this population. It doesn’t necessarily define a commuter student, but it says significant consideration, who’s working 20 to 40 hours a week in addition to doing the schooling that they’re doing, and how that also influences the commuting experience when they’re also balancing the many responsibilities they might have. And that goes both for traditionally aged students as well as non traditional students.

Heather Shea
Yeah, when I was thinking about this, again, not as much about proximity to campus, but also about the other complexities within students lives, and you know, that that might then contribute to additional assumptions that we make about commuter students and their either connection to or lack of connection to campus. Cara, I’d love to hear you were you identify at the beginning that you were a commuter student? What what do you think some of those myths and assumptions might be about, you know, commuter students and administrators, you know, those folks sitting in like my role, might think.

Cara White
I think a lot of times administrators assume that commuters just want to come to campus go to class and leave, because they have so many obligations, when a lot of times, a lot of our commuter students are looking for those opportunities to engage, I think about when I was a commuter student, and I was involved in our program and board, I worked in the student center. And so I was always looking for opportunities to connect with people on campus, because I didn’t live on campus and couldn’t, you know, have a roommate in the residence hall or that sort of thing. Like I really had to capitalize off of those experiences to engage nothing. Now in my current role, I have a student who lives 25 minutes from campus, comes to class has an internship at a community college that’s near but still takes time to serve the programming board and come to work late night events, because she has that desire to connect with people. So I think a lot of times, administrators just assume that our our commuters, have family obligations have worked. So they typically are non traditional and have all these workarounds to deal with. But a lot of times, even if they do fall in those categories, they’re still looking for those opportunities to engage. And I think it’s important to provide those and welcome those and make sure that is presented to them in a way. So being intentional about the programming that we do or job offerings that we have to provide opportunities for communities, commuters to feel like they are seeing

Heather Shea
Yeah, other other thoughts about myths or assumptions.

Alexis Lambert
I would definitely add into Cara’s point about that whole student engagement realm of things is that our commuter students or our online learners are not going to be yearning after this opportunities that typically happen on our campuses. I would also even go as far as to say that the the myth, a lot of times resumes with the fact that our commuter students are travelling long distances. I think Dr. Sasso mentioned the point of this resin muter term and how that definitely is popular in some of our colleges where we occupy. But I think a lot of our students, especially from a UTA perspective, are very close to campus, usually in walkable or drivable distances. But one of the factors that input in impacts our students abilities to participate in these activities is really that there, the public transportation system is kind of non existent for our students that do come from a larger distance and do need to drive to campus and deal with maybe traffic that’s in the DFW metropolitan area. And so when there aren’t really public transportation systems in place for their students to navigate and have access to be on campus, when they need to be for those times, I think that sometimes administrators can get caught up in what that can look like if we don’t have the infrastructure in place to really assist them or get them to our programs.

Suchitra Webster
I would just add that some of the the issues, I think that off campus or commuter students face are not dissimilar from what traditionally residential students are facing to and when I think about what’s gone on, since the pandemic, and you think about integrating support systems for our students, I think that’s very important. I mean, you hear about, it’s easier to say, a commuter student may have more difficulty making a connection, or finding friends or having a sense of belonging, I think we’re seeing that very much. So with our traditionally residential population, too. So again, there’s something to be said for looking at this holistically as, as all of our students, as opposed to the segmentation this way. So I just think that the the pandemic has called that into sharper focus.

Heather Shea
Yeah, let’s let’s pick up on that theme a little bit, because I am really curious. I mean, it at Michigan State, for example, we had students who were queued up to live in the residence halls that fall, and then, you know, we either sent them home that that previous spring or that fall, they we just really didn’t have the same kind of residential experience. So we saw a lot of students who began their college experience living with parents. You know, have we seen Lacey, do you want to talk about this, from your perspective? Have we seen a, a longer term increase in the number of commuter students as a result? And then, you know, what are the some of the things that we might have learned during that time that will help us kind of inform our connection with commuter students today?

Lacey Folsom
Yeah, you know, I think in us, I love the term there. Because COVID kind of created this mass. Whereas we were looking at students who were traditionally set up, especially at a rural campus, I’m in a rural campus, of moving and transitioning their life to the college town to the college experience, they were then faced with the decision of do I stay at home and connect with the University online. But for a lot of them, they were looking for that kind of, you know, that traditional experience. And so they may have wanted to move into the town itself, but we’re finding some private apartments or renting and things of that sort, to stay still connected. But I think that made a really big difference that especially our schools, that were really focused on a traditional college experience, where students were passive programming and things of that sort were happening as students were coming from their residence halls, to their dining halls and things of that sort, where we really not only were we making shifts in the field like crazy, right, trying to figure out how to ensure that students still had a sense of belonging, and they felt like they were connected to the campus. But how do we do that when they’re first and second year students traditionally? Who are now not, they’re not just a becoming involved? Because they’re near the involvement. They’re having to make a conscious decision? And also considering those factors like is it? Do I feel comfortable and safe coming to those events on campus? And at what level? Do I want to be engaged? am I wanting to join organizations or just attend events? And what does that look like? And I think we saw a huge impact on our athletic events, on our general programming, and even just down to who’s in the dining hall and things of that sort, which, you know, had all of its different impact as far as financially for universities and things of that sort. or who were relying on some of these traditional students. And so I think we all found some really creative solutions to try to meet our students. And I’m curious to hear from my colleagues here, just kind of, especially those that were primarily commuter. Did your students continue to keep in staying engaged? Or were you having to get creative? I know, as a rural campus, we were, we were trying to find ways for students to be both places, you could come physically on campus if you wanted to. Or you were able to connect and watch it live from wherever you were. And then how does that still impact their level of engagement? And I think we saw some, we’re still probably still seeing the result of that for the next couple years.

Heather Shea
Yeah. What about other folks? What What did COVID do to your campus and engagement and numbers potentially, of commuters?

Suchitra Webster
What was funny, Heather, because there was a sense here at Michigan State that people were to go home to go home, like work close to go home? Well, they didn’t go home. They a lot of people had leases already. And they just carried on, in some ways with the absence of the institution to pull people together in ways that it normally would. And so there were I think all kinds of new issues and opportunities off campus. We’re I don’t know that we weren’t necessarily equipped to handle that or manage that. Because the you know, the talking points were, well, everyone’s we’re safe. Everybody’s off campus? Well, it. Yeah. So I just I think, again, some opportunities there for students overall with, you know, technology usage and different ways for all of us to think about how we engage with our students. And and then commuter students, in some respects were, they were still there, and we weren’t really engaging with them in ways that we would during non, you know, COVID, non pandemic times. So, really interesting to see that.

Heather Shea
I know, when we were, when we were kind of brainstorming questions, Pietro kind of put out this question about, like, there’s some parallels, potentially, to engaging online learners, and commuter students. And, you know, certainly several of us have kind of spoken already to the ways that we’ve used technology to increase involvement or have some kind of hybrid option for folks to participate in some of the things that are happening on campus. But, you know, there might be other other parallels as well. I’m curious what folks think, you know, Are there similarities between our kind of exclusively online learners, those who never come to campus, maybe those who even live, you know, much, much, much farther away? And those who are commuters and what are the some of the ways that we’re mitigating those, those challenges.

Rebecca “Becka” Shetty
Um, I can chime in i. So my department, so I’m in the Leadership Center. And our goal is to continue to reach a very, very wide array and population of students. And we hosted a program recently over the lunch hour providing lunch for our students. But did of course, get the questions like, well, what if I can’t attend at that time, you know, for so many different reasons. And a lot of students asking for those sort of online module type programs or something that they could do on their own time at their own pace. And I feel like that’s a lot of what we’re continuing to get, not only because of COVID, speaking back to COVID, but also just the needs of the students that we have. And so speaking to that question, though, the parallels between our online community which UTA has a significant online community of online students only, as well as our commuter population, there are a lot of parallels, at least for our campus, and ways that we can serve both at the same time and serve a lot of different kinds of students at the same time, if we’re getting creative with our use of technology and our online platforms. So this program that we hosted that for now was just in person, I would love to create a completely parallel process for that it’s entirely online, so that not only can students engaged no matter where they are, but again, at their own pace, because as we’ve talked about, all of our students have intersectional responsibilities intersectional ways of being that influence how they spend their time and so the more flexible we can be, that’s just going to serve everyone regardless of who they are. And so I know our department is starting to think heavily about the use of the technology, online learning platforms, videos, even the use of social media as an education tool intersecting all of those things to create this more robust experience for students. But it was great to hear that we at least in our thinking were on the right track because students were asking for that. And it was something that was already on our minds. So at least for us, I’m glad to know we’re a bit on the same page with our students.

Suchitra Webster
Okay, can I ask you a question about that? Are you finding at all now, I mean, for for? I’ll give you my question in a second. But for us, one of the issues we have is that students are like, yeah, we’re tired of that we want to be together and in person, even if we’re commuter students. So I like I like having the option of at my own pace, but I also want to be part of the community. So I just wonder how you’re handling doing that hybrid?

Rebecca “Becka” Shetty
Yeah, I wonder if Alexis also because Alexis does a lot more programming on our campus. And so could speak a little bit more to some of that, I would say, with our programming as a leadership center, because we do a wide array of things, and different types of programs that range from in person student organizations to, you know, the workshops to the retreat. So we have different services that we provide. And I think it’s a little bit of both right. And so it’s, well, we do get that in person experience within my club or organization or this other thing I’m involved in, but this leadership stuff, love that. But I’m not going to come to the thing. So if I could just do that on the side, that would be great. So I think it depends a little bit on what your services are, you know, what the priorities of your students are, and where they want to have that face to face interaction versus where they are okay, with this thing? I’m okay with that being kind of on my own time. So I think that’s the question to ask your students, though, you know, what thing? Is it that you’re okay, with having being the virtual experience or the asynchronous option? Versus which things really no, I want to be with my people. And we as a department offer, you know, we want to be able to offer both options or something in between?

Suchitra Webster
That makes a lot of sense. It’s like everything all the time. All at once, like,

Rebecca “Becka” Shetty
yes. And really, when we’ve polled students, we’ve polled students, you know, what, what format and how the duration and what do you want? And it’s, it’s always it’s all of it, every all have it? And we’re like, okay, that’s, that’s both helpful and absolutely not helpful all at the same time.

Lacey Folsom
kind of? Go ahead.

Alexis Lambert
No, I was just gonna kind of piggyback off of Becka in saying, Yes, it definitely depends on the type of program. And we have tried it for some of our programs. But I’ve realized that with some of the more educational learning opportunities, the students would definitely prefer to be in person for those. So we’ve tried some trainings in the students, we’re not engaging, not providing ideas and really abreast with the curriculum. However, if it is something that is a fun, invigorating program, they asked for us to do our concert, streamed as well. So that was a virtual option that they requested. Obviously, we did did not proceed with that. But we were able to do that a live stream for our TEDx that happens at our campus, for students that were interested in tuning in to the speaker opportunities, and then even for family, and alumni that weren’t able to travel to campus for that event. That was one that we had a live stream for, but it is very difficult, I think, to pull our students and figure out what types of events they would like, and the hybrid option. You know, when you all were talking

Lacey Folsom
about this, it made me think I, I really believe there was this opt in mentality that we kind of got from COVID. And, and translating it to our non residential students, when we’re looking at commuters of, they have to make the conscious choice to be able to come back to campus or even to log in. And, and I think there’s a sense of FOMO, you know, using the student term, their fear of missing out, they’re wanting the ability to be able to access it if and when they want it to, or at least to be able to go back and look at it on their own time. And so we really looked at the idea of, is it necessary for it to be live? Or what is that the result that we wanted from this experience? What was that result for those students and how can we give that to them in a different way? And a lot of times we were we were finding, you know, with our transition program like orientation or something of that sort, having a online Meet and Greet before the like session was what they wanted. They wanted that engagement that they would have got in that for in that in person experience. But they wanted it in their own unique way. And it’s not necessarily just going live for something. And so we struggled with that definitely as a campus. And I think a lot of groups did you know, every presentation at every conference he went to was, how do you engage them online? But I think when it all boils down, I think there’s really important to consider the factor of the opt in, of this convenient. I want it now, but I only want it when it’s convenient. And then how do we create those experiences to still have that thing connection for all of our students, not just those who are commuting?

Heather Shea
Oh, my gosh, go ahead, Cara.

Cara White
I just want to quickly add, I’m not in the programmatic sense. But I think we all had similar experiences with trying to figure out how to present things programmatically and that realm, but something that we adapted and learn from to the pandemic, as far as information sharing with our commuter students, was creating the discord channel. And it kind of taps into that what Lacey just was speaking about this opt in and gives the students the opportunity to decide when they want to go in and get the information and it’s available at all times a day. And that has, that was something that the Rutgers commuters Student Association created during the pandemic, and it’s been pretty prominently used ever since. And so it’s pretty active, the students can like just hop on and their students did answer questions from them and connect them to different resources. And so I do think there’s this theme of like, I get that information, how I want to get it when I want to get it and when it’s convenient for me, for sure.

Heather Shea
That’s a that’s a great example of something that kind of continued, and I think it brings us back to this theme of belonging and you know, if you’re a part of the discord channel, you’re part of that community, right? And so, Pietro, I’d love to hear more about kind of some of the research that you’ve engaged in or others around commuter students sense of belonging, and then how we might be able to connect this to all these new approaches, as as we were discussing kind of post COVID to better support commuters going forward.

Pietro A. Sasso
Yeah, I’ve done a little bit of research with commuter students. And you know, they’re always in the samples in my studies and my surveys. And so I think, again, it’s about trying to disrupt that myth about where rather than with what or who, right. And so, in terms of like, research and student theory, I think one of the things we conflate is like engagement and involvement, right? So, involvement really an an Aston’s concept, it’s about that students spending more time on campus. Right. So again, that 1980s idea, right, it’s a it’s a theory from 1984. Right, so and so it’s the responsibility for the student to spend more time on campus, and they’re therefore more proximal to faculty and staff, therefore, they have a increased chance to get more involved. I think it’s more about the the university trying to engage students and that we’re we are responsible to have intentional programs that are that are comprehensive, not just one time events that that actually engage students to get them involved. Right. So I think it’s about switching our mindset. And so the more we shift to engagement mindset, I think the more students feel a affinity to campus. So moving away from that involvement model to engagement model, and so using drawing from more of George George cocoons concepts around engagement. And one of the other myths from from my own research, is that if they live with their parents, they’re less likely to be engaged on campus with with a university programs. That’s not the case, right? They’re a little bit less likely to to get engaged if they live with a significant other, right? So if they’re partnered up, if they are boo up, as the students say, I think they still say that. Probably not, they are less if if they’re in a situation ship, I don’t know what students say anymore. Or whatever

Heather Shea
they’re talking to, you’re talking Yeah,

Pietro A. Sasso
whatever a Gen Z uses on Tik Tok, if they’re with if they’re in a committed relationship of some kind, right. And, and they cohabitate with someone, they’re less likely to, you know, be engaged, but if they live with friends and peers, or even parents, they’re still as likely to actually get engaged. And so since only those students that live with a seat assayed a significant other a partner or they’re the traditional marriage structure what we would think of that they are less less likely. So I think and so I think too, it’s about sense of belonging with with who to, right. So I think that is the other right. So who meaning what, what folks in what space? So So are they engaged in leadership programs? Are they engaged in, you know, well, you know, with undergraduate research with faculty, you know, it was where they’re in a lab or a center? Are they in the Campus Activities Board? Right? Are they a front desk attendant in the Student Union? Are they a TA? So there’s our, you know, our they federal work study in in the library. So I think there’s a range of what we think of as engagement. So students feel a greater sense of, of belonging if they’re engaged with people in a specific space, right. So I think it’s a matter of, of who plus, plus what not just where, right. And so this idea of being a commuter is very much this like, space space concept. And so the online space is kind of this third space, I think, that challenges that that assumption. So I think the online space, again, is this third kind of 3d concept that challenges how we think about what or who is a, a commuter student. And so we also know from the research that if a, if a, if an off campus student is more proximate to campus, the more likely they are to get engaged and feel a higher sense of belonging, because they have a larger peer network, right. And so the other thing we know is that commuter students struggled to to create rimor relationships with their peers to write because they often don’t hang out after class, they go straight home, right, or they don’t linger as much. And so that those kinds of random social interactions don’t happen as much as they do for like a residential student. So sense of belonging to whom, right, also matters as well. And so the more that they are engaged, the more they have those, you know, those or belongings, or those sense of connectedness to, to, to whom. So that’s, that is my academic rant.

Heather Shea
super interesting. Yeah, I read, I think your piece on attachment. And I think we’ll try to link that here. Because I think that was really interesting regarding students relationships with parents as as a, as a parent with a with a teenager about to go to college next year, I have absolutely said they are not living at home with me. And, you know, it is really interesting, too, because as a parent, I would be like, Go stay on campus late, I’ll pick you up. Right. But that’s not going to happen. So I am, I am really curious about, you know, the, the previous theme that so you were on a previous episode that focused really specifically around town gown relationships, which I know, involve lots of complexity with municipality, and you know, the ways in which students just when they cross, at least on our campus, Grand River, right, their experiences is different. One of the things that I’ve, I’ve seen in our community and I maybe in other college places, as well as these high rise, big off campus housing units. And like, I think about, you know, the role of the RA, for example, in, you know, creating community and kind of enforcing some norms or policies, you know, particularly around alcohol use. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, off campus housing and complexities of serving students in these massive high rises, and then serving students as well as kind of supporting landlords who maybe don’t have student affairs backgrounds, right, then yet are dealing with some student developmental pieces that might be impacting the community?

Suchitra Webster
Absolutely. Heather, I would say that we at Michigan State University are a little bit late to the game as far as having these large, you know, off campus, high rises, etc. And that’s been very much the norm throughout the country. And it’s taken us a little while we’re, you know, it’s just been a few years now, just pre pandemic 2019 ish, where we started getting some of our really huge complexes. And I think while there are challenges some of the newer companies and corporations that we’re seeing here are very student affairs savvy or aware, maybe not in the way that a traditional Mom and Pop sort of company, which has, you know, three houses that they rent, although they have years of experience and, and often bring in information where I’m like, wow, I wouldn’t have thought of that, or I wouldn’t have, you know, brought that to bear. So, so we have all different types of landlords and property managers. And I do know that in some of the large corporations, they are hiring people, for instance, with Student Affairs backgrounds, who can do a different type of job. And they understand that students have expectations, and it’s beyond the physical amenities. And it’s that safety and that connectedness. So we are seeing, I think, some richer experiences in those halls. But conversely, they don’t have Resident Assistants always who are going to be doing the traditional things like going on rounds and sitting down and saying, let’s find out what’s going on here, as you two roommates are not, you know, in sync with one another, and how can I kind of help mitigate issues, and it’s a, it’s not going to have that level of interaction all the time. And so, you know, we do find that there’s more intervention, sometimes from law enforcement, I can think of a community a little bit north of us where, you know, they, when you call for assistance, it’s often the police or the fire folks that are going to show up. And so that’s going to be a very different dynamic than you might see closer to campus. I also want to connect to something that Pietro was saying earlier about, you know, our students and you know, the virtual space and where they’re located. And one of the questions I think that’s fundamental for all colleges and universities, is to truly have a grasp and an understanding of their community. Not only are we have this percentage that live on I mean, I can tell you, there’s roughly 17,000 students that live on campus at Michigan State University, and the rest of them live elsewhere. But I do want to make a plug for something we’re doing here, which is to work with our register’s office and do a deep dive on where those students are living. Are they commuters who are in the car coming in by vehicle from 45 miles away three times a week? Or are they literally living across the street? You know, with 5000 other students in a neighborhood that is shifting from permanent resident focus a lot of older folks to, you know, a student type neighborhood, are they on a bus line? Do they have access to groceries is there you know, the appropriate supports in terms of wellness, mental health, etc. And sometimes we have broad strokes information, again, like 60% don’t live here, or this many live on campus, but where are they and certainly we have virtual spaces and other things to consider. But where they live physically has a huge impact on students, and also on the community that they are a part of. So I just I think there’s lots of research to be done there institution by institution, and there’s often a lot of well, that’s the, that’s the register, or the bursar, or this is student affairs work or, you know, it’s those silos are coming down all over the place. Yes. And the and the finger pointing as you’re, you’re, you’re doing there, Heather, but um, so I just to, to get back to the question, to build those effective partnerships, whether it’s with landlords or with our, you know, municipalities, we have to know where students are, are specifically living. People have ideas in their minds about, oh, well, that’s where all the grad students live? Well, no, actually they don’t, because on the stipend that we’re paying them as an institution, they cannot afford to live there. And they have to live in X, Y or Z and so how are they then connected to campus? Are we going out to where we have huge pockets of students or particular demographics or particular needs? So it is very much as as has been said, the 80s, the 90s the locus and the emphasis is on the institution itself, but we have to be able to engage with our students and Wherever they are, whether that’s in the, you know, the techno technology land or physically going to them. And part of that is just knowing where they are. And we don’t always know all of those details. So I think I’ve talked about a variety of topics there and hopefully answered a little bit of the original question.

Heather Shea
Yeah. Other thoughts for folks who want to chime in?

Lacey Folsom
I, you know, both Pietro and Cara, were talking about, I think, really intentionality of the university having some intentions of creating experiences for those belonging for our students. But also having the students having a desire, I think, to want to connect and find community and something that I think that we haven’t really brought up is the cultural component of our students who may be commuting, and what sense of belonging looks like for them. And if they’re attending a university or an institution, that they feel like they could even find that sense of belonging are they looking for? Are they just the thing that they’re desiring, they’re fighting outside of campus? And so I think that’s a really important part, to kind of talk about there. But and Suchrita mentioned mental health. And I think, when we’re talking about intentionality, I think we’re going to really have to start looking at institutions and our policies, about how do we address conduct and behavior issues, as well as mental health or title nine, when these things are happening off campus? And what is really our role when it is our students, especially at these locations, these high rises, as you mentioned, that are predominantly students? And where where does the sense of responsibility land and so I think there’s some really great opportunities for research, but also for institutions to look at their own unique populations of how we’re going to address this.

Suchitra Webster
Totally agree.

Heather Shea
This is such a fascinating conversation. And I think I’m I’m hearing at least like three different follow up episodes here, because I think we could really dig in a little a little bit deeper into the ways in which our campuses built environments, the technology, environment, and, and otherwise are influencing students. Becka I want to pick up though, on this idea of sometimes I think the institutional context, you know, does matter. And that if you if your institution is situated in kind of what we kind of traditionally think of as a college town versus an urban campus versus a community college, in what ways might institutional differences kind of affect the way that an institution serves or works with their off campus or commuter student population?

Rebecca “Becka” Shetty
Yeah, I think, really, this whole conversation, all these past few comments, were really such a good segue into this, because to the point that was just made, if institutions don’t know where their students are, where they’re living, what their situation is, it is hard to have that intentionality. Right. And so thinking through that, and, you know, something, I’ve been thinking that answers this question, but also, just as a piece of this whole puzzle, comes down to some of some of that context. So for example, the University of Texas Arlington is an urban campus, Lacy mentioned being on a rural campus, the idea of a college town, those are very different environments. And so how do we even interpret what a commuter student is in those contexts can be very different. And so where they are, who they’re with what that looks like, it’s definitely going to be different and understanding how our local communities and the culture of the town, the culture of this space influences these things can really matter. I’ll give you an example. So in our case, we are an urban campus again, DFW Metroplex and so we have students who might be commuting 30 45 minutes away from local areas, they were living with parents, as I mentioned earlier, and I had a student, for example, because they were living at home with their parents, we and our department offers some overnight opportunities, right, you know, the retreats away from campus? Well, this student needed parental permission. They’re over 18 years old, but culturally, their family was not comfortable allowing them to come to a campus program that was going to be overnight. And that would not be the first time that’s happened, where folks in my larger unit have had to have conversations with parents explaining the event, explaining what’s going to be happening, how the student is going to be housed outside of their home overnight, with a larger population of students. And so I can just imagine, you know, pending on the community, you’re a part of the town your institution might reside in the type of commuter student we’re talking about. How do those kinds of factors come into clay, what area or region of the country are you in and what values seem to be important to that region of the country, I think there’s so much at play in how our students experience the the university or college experience, that also has to do with locale. And the values associated with that the types of communities we have even sub communities within our areas. So that’s a little bit about locale, but also just another consideration when it comes to this knowing your student, knowing your institutionalized stance on those students, and being really intentional about how we engage. But I’d be interested for those who have different institution types or different locations, because I think we’re all from pretty different locales in this conversation and where your your institutions are located, but how that might influence things. You know, because again, we’re an urban campus where we draw from that 30 to 45 minutes away, which might be different than a college town.

Suchitra Webster
Becka I also wonder to your comment, it’s also about the language that our institutional leaders use, and are they explicit and intentional in including, you know, even if it’s statements like, regardless of where you call, you know, what, what home is for you, or what mean there, I’m not being I’m saying it in a way that savvy but there are communications experts on each of our campuses that we should be hopefully able to work with and have them include a lot of the appropriate language and messages that we would like our commuter students to hear.

Heather Shea
This is great. I’d like to get to some kind of innovative practices. Every year at ACPA, there used to be a session called more than a place to park right, which really kind of problematize this idea that it’s just, it’s not just about parking, although we all complain about parking on our campuses, to a certain extent, right. You know, Alexis tuck, talk a little bit about some innovative practices, about, you know, serving commuter students, you know, at commuter campuses or otherwise.

Alexis Lambert
Yes, I think we’ve heard a lot of our colleagues already talk about this larger concept of meeting students where they are, and how we do that with regard to having commuter students in mind and all of our students for the greater good. And so when I think about how we can better serve our students and giving them more than just this education degree, and in a place to park our cars, it probably cost us too much money anyway. Um, I think it’s really important to try and make sure that our efforts are always geared with the students in mind first, and so does that mean that we host a program during the day, and our institution, again, at UTA does a lot of scheduling, intentional scheduling with academia. And so previously, there used to be an academic agreement, where on Mondays and Wednesdays from 12, to one the lunch hour, there would be no classes scheduled. And that was done intentionally so that our students would have the opportunity to engage in our campus activities. And to make sure that our students were having this co curricular experience where they could go and engage in these opportunities and then return to their classes, and then go back to their lives should they need to go to work or whatever the other circumstances may be. And so I think that is a really good example of what those partnerships could look like and how we advocate for the greater good of our students in how they access our resources. I also think with regard to innovation, we’ve had this conversation of larger hybrid and programs, events and opportunities. I think we’ve we’ve also seen a lot of that, and how we pivoted in COVID. And with commencement ceremonies and what those look like and how we offered those, even though I that was not done with commuter students in mind. And quite naturally, I think it helps those students that maybe have families or parents that are further that can’t access these things, based on, you know, their actual proximity to campus. So I know that our other colleagues have some really cool and innovative ways to share how we can continue to advocate and serve our commuter student population. So I’d be interested in hearing that as well.

Heather Shea
Yeah, What other ideas do you folks want to contribute?

Pietro A. Sasso
I think going off of what what Alexis said, I think the you know, the, you know, common our idea and partnering with the registrar is one of the more innovative things I’ve seen, right if it’s a Tuesday, Thursday, or Fridays after four right, where there’s nothing scheduled so that these types of students can actually get involved. I think that’s one of the that’s one of the rarest things I’ve seen, which shocks me right, I think it’d be more common but that they know that no common hour was really involvement hour, and I’ve worked at two at two at two like universities that have actually had it. And when I worked in Student Activities, it made me it made my life easy because the student organizations met on a Tuesday. And then I would do all my, all my leadership luncheons on Thursday, right? So, but I’d have 80/90 students show up, it was wonderful. Pizza, and soda still actually brings out students, right. So it did back then it still does now. So just don’t don’t put the pineapple on the pizza. By the way, it’s, it’s like a bad thing still. So anyway, I think the other thing that I’ve seen innovative when I worked in student affairs, I worked on like an alcohol Task Force. And so we had a lot of challenges around commuter students and you know, DUI challenges. So I’ve worked on some on some alcohol education campaigns, right, some some like substance misuse concepts. I think the other thing I’ve seen in trying to address commuter students or most of the resume commuter students, so students that live proudly approximately campus up to five to 10 minutes out that are walkable, that is is like a good neighbor program, doing you know door a door hangers, flyers on cars, you know, gang, you know, you know, you know, trying to get a list from landlords getting lists from your registrar and then emailing those students to, and then using social norming. Right, around forms of, of, you know, responsible will be a behavior. So I’ve seen a lot of ways to teach it. And then, you know, workshops around like independent living skills, right, like, how do I pay my rent on time, right? How do I host a party responsibly, so that there aren’t holes in the wall that I get charged for later, right? So just a basic life skills and student safety training, I think, was very trendy in phases, right. And those sorts of things come and go. I think with commuter students to the online space challenges, right, and I think about the nuances, you know, between urban and rural, right, we think about rural students as actually having to drive more, right. And there’s other other like, nuances around driving safety, from drinking and driving or those nuances around if you’re at a two compared to a four year university, right? Around, you know, if you’re at a two year, certainly there, there’s a lot of transfer students, they aren’t there for a protracted amount of time, like a four. So I think, and you know, you have a lot of adult learners. So I think it changes the types of students you program to based on on what space you’re in, and what type of like institution or university. So I think, and for adult learners, one of one of the interesting things I’ve seen a university I worked at, and we had a sorority, for adult learning women, it was specifically started for returning women, so women who stopped down and came back, and they’re trying to persist through to graduation. And that created such a wonderful space. And it had 30/40 members. You know, you had working mothers, you had full time students, it was such a rage, but it was such one of the more welcoming spaces I’ve seen for women who may not be 18 to 23. Right. And so I thought that was fascinating. So how do we how can we mimic or mirror traditional undergraduate organizations for our, for our adult learners and our you know, students or other forms like that, too. So

Heather Shea
we are getting close to running out of time. So I’m going to move us to final thoughts and I’m going to kind of combine questions a little bit because I definitely want to get to a what advice or what pieces that you would want to share. So maybe in your final thoughts share some thing that you would give to practitioners to improve their understanding of commuter students and serving commuter students on their campuses. And then if you would like to share information about how folks could get in touch with you, and then any other final thoughts, that would be amazing. We’re gonna do the same order that we did introduction. So Pietror, I’m going to start with you.

Pietro A. Sasso
If people want to reach out to me, please see my my website, which is. And you can find me it’s not hard. I think the other my last piece is research. Right. commuter students, if it’s institutional assessment, that’s a valid form of research still, right, working with a registrar, doing student focus groups, right? Trying to understand your student voice more is really important. Or if it’s formal research, like like presentations, I’m always happy to Write Right with folks. I think, I think oftentimes, we’ve moved away from studying these types of students and have moved on to other social identities, which is wonderful. But we still have these students. And so I really hope that this that this space that we all share right now might encourage more researchers who work to dock students to sort of re amplify these the students. So

Heather Shea
yeah, thank you so much for sharing that I always think these episodes are like little mini lit reviews, right, that we could take into, into more spaces. Lacey, what are your final thoughts and in terms of improving practice?

Lacey Folsom
You know, from the conversation today, I’ve just still really stuck on intentionality. But more importantly, like realizing that the needs of our students whether no matter what space in which they occupy, if it’s an on campus, or off campus type world, their desire to get connected to our institutions is similar across the board. And so how do we create these experiences where students are feeling uniquely supported because of the space that they chose to navigate their college experience? But how do we also integrate it into an experience where we normalize that it does not matter where you live, it just matters how you engage. And so I really, I’m loving that and wanting to try to be more intentional in those ways. And if anybody wants to reach out or work on smaller projects, I’m on LinkedIn and through my university email as well. So excited to connect.

Heather Shea
Thank you so much, Cara, final thoughts from you.

Cara White
I definitely wasn’t going to focus on the intentionality. But I do think it’s also important to bring those students into the conversation when it’s coming down to decisions to be made. So we partner very closely with our commuter student association. If there’s something we’re looking to do within our student centers, whether that’s through our lounges, or amenities we want to provide for them, we don’t want to just make the decisions off the assumptions as administrators, but actually having students who are commuters let us know what they need and actually having a voice at the table. So that’ll be my biggest kind of like, feedback for that. And then if you want to connect with me.

Heather Shea
Thanks so much Cara, Sue, what are your final thoughts?

Suchitra Webster
Yeah, I, if you do want to connect with me, I would encourage you to look at my msu.edu email account. Or also, you know, connect with me via LinkedIn. What I’m left with today is a reminder of why all of these partnerships are so important. Because when you do do the research, and you do ask because it’s ask your students and, you know, go to them, you then take that information. And there are lots of different places within the institution, that we should be having these conversations and sharing that data. And I think back to some of the example again, about mapping where students live, and then taking it to the people in Student Health and Wellness in health promotion, and having them look at a map or, you know, say, Wow, this is missing, or how can I get there and interact with these folks, with with people who are you know, I’ve also given that example. Another mini example, those who do the planning for our campuses and for the extensions of our campuses, I think it’s important information for us to share not only amongst ourselves as student affairs or student life and engagement practitioners, but with our colleagues on and off campus. So I would I would stress that thanks for Is this opportunity, I felt like taking a bunch of notes during the conversation was

Heather Shea
really, really good. Becka, you’re final thought.

Rebecca “Becka” Shetty
I’m just sort of gonna briefly synthesize every thing everyone else said into two things, which is really don’t make assumptions and don’t give up. I think that’s what I’m taking away from this as someone who is new to work working with commuter students, that assumptions I make tend to be wrong. And there’s just, you fill in the gaps with information that’s not accurate. And so I’m not making assumptions and then not giving up. It’s a lot of work. It’s a lot of work to get this right. It’s a lot of work to be intentional, but our students deserve that from us. And so don’t give up and keep doing the hard work. If folks want to reach out to me, that can.shetty@uta.edu I’m also on LinkedIn and happy to connect

Heather Shea
some Thank you. That’s great. And Alexis?

Alexis Lambert
Yes, I think I’m really left with and inspired to continue this thread of intentional conversations, whether that be with my students, with staff, faculty, and community members. So that way we can continue to do our best effort in our due diligence to get this right. I think it is hard is Dr. Shetty just mentioned, it is very difficult, and it is tiring work. But it is definitely worth it. And so if we continue to have these conversations with our students, and smalls sessions, and making sure that we are intentional in how we incorporate them into the conversation, I think we will continue to make positive strides in the right direction. And if you’d like to connect with me, my YouTube email will serve just fine.

Heather Shea
Awesome. Oh my gosh, I learned so much from this conversation today. And it feels like I’ve really built upon my the foundation from my very earliest career and connection with the with the ACP commission for commuters and adult learner. So thank you all so much for your time today. Also sending a heartfelt appreciation to our incredible producer Nat Ambrosey. Thanks for making us look and sound amazing. If you’re listening today and you’re not already receiving our weekly newsletter, you can visit our website and scroll to the bottom to add your email. And check out our growing archives. At that point I want to give a quick shout out to our sponsors for today. Symplicity is a global leader in student services technology platforms with state of the art technology that empowers institutions to make data driven decisions specific to their goals. A true partner to the institution Symplicity supports all aspects of student life, including but not limited to Career Services and Development, Student Conduct and well being student success and accessibility services. And you can learn more by visiting symplicity.com or connect with them on Facebook, Twitter, or LinkedIn. And then our second sponsor for today is Stylus Publishing. Stylus is proud to be a sponsor for the Student Affairs Now podcast. You can browse their student affairs, diversity and professional development titles at styluspub.com. And use the promo code s now for 30% off all books plus free shipping, and you can find them on Facebook, YouTube, Inc, Instagram, LinkedIn and Twitter at styluspub. Please take a moment to visit our website and click on the sponsors link to learn more. Again, I’m Heather Shea thanks to all of our listeners to all of the folks who joined on the panel today and to everybody who’s watching and listening. Thanks. Make it a great week.

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