Megumi Moore:
More than a mom stands out to me, because it is being a mother is not just this one set of activities that I do with my son being a mother is part of how I move through the world. It is just, has been like focus it’s there’s now an actual, like a for little human who’s the focus of, of it, but that energy and that way that I move through the world has been maternal for a long time.

Heather Shea:
Welcome to Student Affairs NOW, the online learning community for student affairs educators. I’m your host, Heather Shea. Today in honor of the upcoming holiday, we are sharing perspectives of several mothers who work in or adjacent to the field of student affairs. In higher education. We will be discussing the many challenges facing women as caregivers during a pandemic, as well as the various joys of being an SA mom or SAM. Before I introduce my guest today, I need to share a little bit more about our podcast and today’s sponsors. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and learning community for thousands of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We hope you’ll find these conversations, make a contribution to the field and are restorative to the profession. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays. Find us@studentaffairsnow.com on YouTube or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Today’s episode is sponsored by Simplicity. A true partner, Simplicity supports all aspects of student life with technology platforms that empower institutions to make data driven decisions. This episode is also sponsored by Vector Solutions, formally EverFi, the trusted partner for 2000 plus colleges and universities. Vector Solutions is a standard of care for student safety, wellbeing and inclusion. Stay tuned to the end of the podcast for more information about each sponsor.

Heather Shea:
As I mentioned, I’m your host, Heather Shea, my pronouns are she, her and hers, and I am broadcasting from the campus of Michigan State University. Michigan State University occupies the ancestral traditional and contemporary lands of three fires confederacy of Ojibwe, Ottawa, and Potawatomi peoples the university resides on land seated in the 1819 Treaty of Saginaw. So excited for the four of you to join me today. Thank you so much. I thought maybe we’d start with just brief introductions. Tell us a little bit about you, what your name pronouns role, excuse me, on your institutional campuses and all of that would be great. So Kathy, let’s start with you.

Kathy Adams Riester:
Hi, I’m Kathy Adams Riester I’m the associate vice provost of student affairs, executive associate Dean of students at Indiana University in Bloomington. And I use she, her and her pronouns.

Heather Shea:
Thanks for being here, Kathy. Meg.

Megumi Moore:
My name is Meg Moore. I am the director of graduate student life and wellness here at Michigan State. That’s an office that works with the graduate and professional students providing them with well wellness, wellbeing and leadership programs, and I use she her pronouns happy to be here.

Heather Shea:
Great, Kim, welcome. Welcome back. I should say actually all three of you, I think have been on podcast episodes before. So welcome back.

Kim Steed-Page:
Thank you. I’m excited to be here. Hi everyone. My name is Kim Steed-Page. I use she, her pronouns and am the director of the student parent resource center at Michigan State University. So I have the privilege of working with student, parents, families, kids, and student caregivers.

Heather Shea:
Great. Thank you so much. And Alexandria, welcome.

Alexandria White:
Hello. Thank you for having me. I’m Dr. Alexandria White. I am the current senior vice president for diversity equity inclusion for women owned women-led consulting company called Reboot Excel. And when I’m not doing that, I am adjunct faculty at the University of Mississippi and I use the pre pronouns, she, her and hers. And I have the privilege of being the founder and creator of Student Affairs Moms.

Heather Shea:
Yes. In fact, that is the impetus for today’s episode. Part of what I was thinking about, and I actually came up to you after the stage show. So at a CPA this year, there was a panel on the main stage about student affairs moms and, and the Facebook group broadly. But I’m really curious about the backstory. So could Alexandria, could you tell us a little bit about how the group came to be and what it is become?

Alexandria White:
It has become one of the reasons I keep my Facebook account. Cause that is the one thing about social media, but it just came from a need of mine. I was the only mom woman of color in my department and I worked in, and I just remember being so frustrated scared being on duty. And if you work in residence, life and housing, you know, that being on duty is 24 hours. And I had a little kid who’s going watch her while I’m on duty, taken care of an overflown toilet. I think I said that right. Or a a party that I have to break down and or break up. And so I’m like you know, I work in student affairs, there’s got to be a group for moms, you know, does APA have one, does NASPA have one or NACO or a cool I, and there was nothing.

Alexandria White:
And I said, well, who can help me unpack living on campus, being a woman of color, being a mom. And so I sat at home and I’m thinking Student Affairs Moms, we love acronyms and higher education. Okay. I, and , and that’s how it came about is I just needed someone to talk to and understand my plight of living, where I work being a mom, having to find a babysitter when I’m on duty, having to find a babysitter when I’m in RA training or grad training during the summer months. And just all of those things. And next thing, you know, it’s 2022 and it’s almost 8,000 moms in this Facebook group. And I am so humbled. I still can’t believe it. It just came from a need of mine and wanting to find my people.

Heather Shea:
Well it’s, it’s clear that it has become a source of much support and an incredible resource as well. Right. So we always think about like, how can Facebook give us something back? And I think that this is a space that really gives gives us all something back. So thank you for the dedication and for the constant presence. I’d love to hear the rest of you all. Tell us a little bit about your mom’s story, any specific experiences that bring you to this conversation today, and if you would be willing to share us a little bit of information about your family’s and or children, that would be great. And Kim, we’ll start with you.

Kim Steed-Page:
Okay. Yes. I, people are probably tired of hearing about my kids, because I love to talk about my kids because they energize me and keep me also very humble. Anytime, I start feeling I’m a little too good about myself. I, I have an eight year old and a 17 year old both boys. So a nine year age difference and one is a senior in high school, my baby and dealing with some emotions around that this entire school year and an eight year old who’s in third grade. So for me. I think one of my biggest challenges is it has been kind of navigating the age difference in terms of thinking about their needs, you know, how to have conversations. You know, we were also the last two years, there have been quite a bit of unfortunate things you know, in the media, in the world and having to manage those conversations and keep them supported and really, you know, check on their mental health and the SAM’s page was amazing for resources around.

Kim Steed-Page:
Even though I work, you know, in the field, I have found so many resources and shared so many resources with my student families from the SAM’s comments and, and just a great opportunity to get new information and also to find support and to it helped me to not feel like I was the only one kind of going through these things, you know, of course, you know, you’re not the only one, but in general it can feel very isolating. I think that was the biggest thing. And also the Facebook page for me took away that element of shame and, you know, that feeling of, I shouldn’t be feeling this way or I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t not know these things. So I think, you know, coming to this conversation, it was, you know, just a great reminder of how much we need each other, you know, and how much we need to lean on each other for that support. And even mentoring, especially for newer professionals or newer to student affairs new moms even. So just, you know, so much opportunity and moms are amazing anyway, so talented in so many areas. So it’s always a great day to be a mom.

Heather Shea:
Thanks, Kim. That was a good segway to our newest mom of the group. Meg tell us a little bit about your background and, and your, and your newest addition to the family.

Megumi Moore:
Yeah, so I my wife and I have a son, Kieren, he’s going to be seven months old in three days. And ti it’s one of those funny things about time where it’s like, I can’t remember a time before Kieren was part of our family and it, it also just feels like it’s going by very quickly and, you know, everyone, everyone, literally everyone that we’ve talked about, Hey, we have a child is like just, you know, drinking every minute. Like you just go so fast and I feel like we’re so present. And so, so aware of that, that it almost itself becomes a barrier because you’re just you, especially, we both work full time. My wife also works at Michigan state as an assistant professor. And you know, it’s, that puts some pressure on the feeling that like when you’re at home, like you have to just be so fully present and and it feels bad to be away, you know, at the office and working.

Megumi Moore:
And so of course, you know, I think that’s a, just a constant struggle of being a working mom. And yeah, he’s so I’m also older, so I’m 47 and you know, most of my friends have kids that are graduating from high school and just in a totally different stage of life. And and that’s what my wife carried and actually did the having of the baby. I was, you know, I was, I was there I helped, but she, she did all the heavy lifting was was on, was her end. But you know, it’s, it’s also just been an interesting thing coming, becoming a mom at, at the stage of life where I am and the age that I am and the career development where I am. And so that’s there’ve been a lot, so many things I’ve reflected on.

Megumi Moore:
So I have a lot, a lot of things that I’ve thought about. But more than anything, it’s just been like the people say it’s the hardest thing. It’s just in some ways to raise a child and course during a pandemic, it’s really scary to have a newborn who’s so vulnerable. That’s been a huge you know, part of the last two years, even making sure that Ashley didn’t get sick so that she could become pregnant when, you know, the time that we wanted to. So there have been a lot of things going on there, but that’s just, so that’s just kind of the, the broad overview of of what our life looks like. And we’re real excited. It’s the last week of school. So Ashley’s going to be home for most of the summer. She is so excited that this semester’s almost over. So we’re, we’re been in survival mode for the last couple months. So

Heather Shea:
Yeah, we’re all just waiting until that last moment. I love it. And, and to Kathy, beyond my own mom, shout out to Susan, who’s probably listening beyond my own mom, Kathy, is probably the person who I have learned the most about being a mom from, because I have known you for forever. It feels like so Kathy, tell us a little bit about your, your two kids and being a mom.

Kathy Adams Riester:
So I have two sons. I have a son who is 21 who is a junior in college and a son who is 17. Who’s a junior in a high school, so they’re four years apart. And I think as Heather mentions when I first started, when I had my first child I met Heather when he was about a year old, but I feel like for me, it’s always been important to find community, especially with other working moms, because no one else really understands what you’re going through unless you have that community. And I think just having that support from other moms is so important with that. So it was great when Heather and I have two sons that are about six months apart. So I was pregnant with my second child and she was pregnant with her first child.

Kathy Adams Riester:
So we also got kind of that pregnancy mom bonding, which also was super special. So I’ve always appreciated that. And I just think the community that is bill between having those, you know, the support system of other moms is so important, especially when you’re trying to navigate the work that we do in student affairs, which doesn’t often have normal hours. It has different schedules and trying to figure out how you navigate everything is, is super challenging. So I think things like student affairs moms is such a blessing because that conversation isn’t really happening to other where you really have to individually seek it out with other people who you find out have children to be able to find that support as a mom. So I’m super excited and excited to be part of this, this group.

Heather Shea:
Yeah. thank you so much for all of you being here. Just, I am also entering this conversation as a mom, as Kathy said, I have a 17 year old and I also have a 14 year old. And I’m a single parent have gone through a divorce. And so like to add to the element of what it means to work in student affairs. I think that’s part of the story may, or it may not come up today. But I’d love to hear a little bit about, a little bit more about Facebook page and Alexandria, I think one of the things that I’ve really appreciated as I was reviewing is the crowdsourcing of support and the anonymous posts or the asking for a friend kind of posts. What if you had to kind of summarize what are the most prevalent or pressing issues facing SAM’s on the page?

Alexandria White:
I think right now, if you go to the anonymous post. So Facebook does give admins the ability to look at analytics on the back end. So I’m aware of keywords, when does SAM’s post what city and state has the most. So I’m a nerd in that aspect, and I love to look at those numbers, but a lot of anonymous posts are right now is do I stay in student affairs?

Heather Shea:
Mm,

Alexandria White:
Heather, we talked about that. Heather and Kathy, we talked about that at ACPA. I think it’s a time for leadership to have that conversation. You see opt-ins from the Chronicle. You see think, think pieces about retention and attrition in student affairs and the anonymous posts are. And when I was prepared for this, I went through where the different touch points where I get the anonymous post, which is the website and they can message me and it’s, I’m overworked, I’m underpaid. It seems there is a lack of empathetic leadership from college administrators. And do I stay in student affairs because I love this profession. It’s so many things that people are unpacking and of course mental and physical wellbeing, those are the key that I am seeing and I can’t answer them all. And if someone messages me, I try to, you know, yes, I can post this, but how are you doing? How can I help ’em back end? But those are the two mental and physical wellbeing. And do I stay in this profession that just seems to continue to take at this time and not get that.

Heather Shea:
Mm yeah. That is I think that’s, that was my takeaway from the, from the panel at ACPA as well. And so adding in those needed supports, I think is really critical. I’m actually going to skip us down a little bit to talking about parenting in the pandemic, because I think that really pulls nicely from what you just talked about, Alexandria. I know flexible and remote work have become kind of essential and vital, right. And student affairs. And Kathy’s our senior level administrator on the group. Maybe, can you talk a little bit about how moms can advocate for flexibility and, and then how you can, you know, hear that and support and what are the supports that you’re able to provide?

Kathy Adams Riester:
So I would say first it’s important to figure out where your institution is on this issue. Are they supporting flexible work? Are they supporting hybrid or remote, you know, days per week remote schedule and find out what your policies are for your institution? Because I think really honestly, they’re all over the place across the country right now. I think institutions are realizing they probably need to figure out how to address this. But I think everyone’s in a different place on what that looks like right this second. So I think figuring that out and then figuring out what’s realistic for your situation is important. So for, in my institution we aren’t really offering a lot of fully remote work unless you’re in a really, not a front facing positions, which most of our student affairs positions are, are pretty front face seen.

Kathy Adams Riester:
So there’s a lot of flexibility and work schedules and things like that. But some of the things you have to do is you have to have stable internet. And you know, there’s some things that you have to have because also, especially at public institutions, there are also OSHA law, you know, laws and, and things like that that are federal laws that come into place with the workplace setting and those kinds of things. So I, I don’t know that education is quite as flexible as a private industry around things like that. So I think figuring that out and then figuring out what you really need and what’s realistic and having that conversation with your supervisor. I, and I think things are also in flu. So being able to know that things might be one way right now, and then the flexibility may be increasing as we kind of move into this next year and employers are really evaluating that.

Kathy Adams Riester:
So for me, one of the ways that, that we support it, because we’re not at a, you know, fully working remote options. And we’re a little bit of hybrid but really what we’re offering the best is flexibility for our staff. So I think the flexibility is, you know, I, I think about several of my staff members who have young children that are in the, the daycare age and how often this spring, and the other variants that daycare was closed because all it takes is one kid in the class to be, be sick and a whole classroom will close. So offering as much flexibility as we can to staff, to be creative with their work schedules to help manage and balance daycare when the daycare is closed you know, is one of the things that, that we can do.

Kathy Adams Riester:
And so I think part of it is, you know, we’ve really worked individually with different staff members to help support them. And part of it too also is that you can’t say things like, oh, well, I’m working from home. I’m not going to be answering my phone. I mean, you really have to be able to do your job from your home. So figuring out what that balance is about how you’re helping to support you know, your child and their needs at home, but also the balance of being able to do the work that you need to do. So I think it’s kind of a meeting in the middle. You know, I would, that’s what I would kind of recommend. I think when you think about how you want to talk about this with your supervisor to kind of engage, engage in that and, and what you will have set up to ensure that you’re really getting your things done and things need to be kind of done during the work day. A lot of times, I mean, sometimes there’s flexibility and project at night, but you know, your presence at meetings that are happening during regular sketch hours and things like that are also important. So having that kind of idea of, you know, what, what you can support is also helpful.

Heather Shea:
Thanks Kath. I want to pop back to one of the questions that I had earlier which is about kind of hashtags on the thread. And as I was review the SAM’s Facebook group, I liked how different topics and conversations were available by searching. Right. So I thought it might be kind of interesting to hear if you all have a story that kind of resonates with a specific hashtag about being a mom in student affairs and that you wouldn’t mind sharing with a are listeners. So Kim, what’s your hashtag, what’s your story? And what’s your hashtag

Kim Steed-Page:
You know I’m going to go with that hashtag that you mentioned I’m mom so hard , it’s probably connected to hashtag mom guilt. So my story is it has a good ending, so it’s okay.

Kathy Adams Riester:
Thanks for that.

Kim Steed-Page:
It’s good warning. My husband, my husband is a professional musician and things have started to come back, thankfully, because he was about almost two years with no work which is a whole separate episode, but , he had a meeting. He was going to work in some schools and I also, I had a seven 30 meeting. So we are fortunate enough to have before and aftercare in our school. So I said, no problem. I will drop the eight year old off at aftercare right at seven and then take the high schooler onto school. So dropped off the eight year old at before care. Like we typically do, went on to drop off my high schooler. And as I was parking, because I worked within about a one mile radius of the schools as I was parking at, see my phone ringing and, and it’s actually my son’s teacher.

Kim Steed-Page:
And so I picked up the phone and she said, you know , Bryson’s here in the vestibule. I just happen to hear we don’t there’s no before care. Today, I’m not sure if you received the email from before care that they were short staffed because this, what had happened is that Michigan State delayed the re return back to face to face instruction at the beginning of January. So the before care who was run primarily by college students was was spended. I missed that email completely. And so my eight year old was there at school and nobody else was there yet, but the, the vestibule part was open. And so his teacher said, well, you know, it’s no problem if you want, you know, if he doesn’t mind just coming into the classroom with me, he can, you know, help me do some work.

Kim Steed-Page:
And so I hear him on, on the, in the background say, can I talk to my mom? And then he said, mom, this is just like that movie that I watched about home alone. It was so alone. And I felt so terrible because he says I was all by myself and he says, but I’m okay. You know, my teacher I’m going to go my teacher into my teacher’s classroom. So it worked out fine, but I felt so guilty about missing the email, dropping him off, you know, he was left all alone. It just, it, all of the chaos that has been created, I’m normally a pretty organized when it comes to the kids stuff and I’m the keeper of the schedules and everything. So that was, you know, so I just had to say, you know, hashtag mom guilt and hashtag, I mom so hard.

Heather Shea:
Thanks. Thank you for sharing that story. Love it. The phone, the kids getting onto the phone too. It’s just like, oh, oh Meg, what about you? What story would you share?

Megumi Moore:
Well when I read through the list of hashtags, I was like more than a mom stood out to me. Because I think there it’s such a layered experience because being a mom and especially being like entering in you know, and being fresh in this, it is like, I’m still getting used to this idea that I’m, I’m a mom, you know, like I still have to say it when I look at him, I’m like, that’s my son, I’m his mom. Like I have to keep like doing this. And so I think the idea of like I, and the layers of like, and I’m also this, this professional that has been working and that has, you know, my background is in mental health. I was a therapist and I still do I have a small private practice on the side. And so I have that in addition to my, you know, my full-time job.

Megumi Moore:
And so, by being a therapist informs everything that I do. And so being a therapist, the child and I developmental psychology is also one of my favorite areas. So being like way overly aware of attachment issues and like stages of cognitive and development and how do you develop empathy and how do you develop the skills at this really early age? So that, and especially for like little boys, you know, like when wondering all the different messages they get about feelings and all these things. And so so that’s, there’s not necessarily a particular story that goes along with that, but that was the hashtag that stood out to me because I am so looking for evidence of like, he seems to have positive attachment. Well, I will. Okay. I’ll or the one story that came to mind was there was a loud noise in the kitchen.

Megumi Moore:
Ashley was like using the blender or something. And so like, you know, I knew it was coming and Kieren’s sitting on my lap and I just got done feeding him. And he H he hears the noise and it startles him and he turns, and he whips his head around and he looks in, he looks right at me and it was this, like this like, beautiful moment of like, you see his little lip quivering. Like he was scared. He didn’t know what to do. And he looked at me and I was very conscious in that moment of being like, I want to affirm his feelings, like, yeah, a buddy that was scary. And, and also like, like reflect back to him that he was okay. And it happened very quickly and kind of instinctively, you know, I was like, just to making my face, do these things to this little baby on my lap.

Megumi Moore:
And I saw the recognition. I saw him go from scared to feeling okay. And it was like, like such a simple moment, but I’m like, that’s, that’s it. And I, and I think that’s also like this connecting, like to, to what I do in the work that I do either as a therapist or in my role at Michigan State is like, is providing those spaces where we’re, whatever the student is coming to us with that we’re containing it for them. We’re you know, acknowledging that what they’re feeling is valid and like trying to also move them to a place where they feel okay about whatever’s going on. And so it’s just this kind of all the meta, the meta layers of being a mom, having a maternal energy I think student affairs, there’s a lot of maternal work that I do.

Megumi Moore:
with students, with colleagues even. And so yeah, so just think that more than a mom stands out to me, because it is being a mother is not just this one set of activities that I do with my son being a mother is, is, is part of how I move through the world. It is just, has been like focus it’s there’s now an actual, like a for little human who’s the focus of, of it , but that energy and that way that I move through the world has been maternal for a long time. And so that’s yeah, that’s what I was thinking

Heather Shea:
About. I love that. That’s a great story. I love the applicability and calling upon that knowledge that you have in that moment instinctually that’s great. Alexandria, what, what hashtag would you like to a, and then share a story around

Alexandria White:
Hashtag mom win. I have a 17 year old, and I was thinking of how many years she’s lived on a college campus and she has lived on a man she’s lived on a college campus about 10 years of her life and or college town. And she really is a student affairs kid. But I travel a lot now doing diversity work when I’m not working at the university and I, mom wins are those little things where she says, mom you forgot to send me money for groceries. And, and I oh, mom fail, but let me cash that piece of money for groceries and so just leaving her sometime my mom does come and check on her. My mom lives really close, but the mom win is that she is very independent. And my friend took her to get groceries and she said it was so funny seeing Emery coming out of the store, like a little, you know, little grownup with her own groceries. And so that was my mom wound. And it took a little bit of guilt away, actually that I’ve raised this independent person that’s going to go off in the world even when I’m not there. And it’s okay that I’m not there. She’s got it. So that was my mom win.

Heather Shea:
That is great. What a great story. Kathy, what’s your hashtag story?

Kathy Adams Riester:
So I’m going to also say hashtag mom win. So I, through most of my career, I have had some amount of involvement with student conduct and those kinds of things. So I’ve always been big in talking with my sons about consent. Even from the time they were little I would say, Hey, you know, if there’s someone you want to give a hug to, you need to ask them to give a hug, you know? And once they got a little older, if you’re going to hold hands, ask for consent, if you’re going to kiss someone, ask for consent. So I drill that into their heads and this weekend, so first my older, my son, the 17 year old went to junior prom and he wanted to spend the night at a friend’s house. And where it was boys and girls, both spending the night and the parents said, you know, no, there won’t be any drinking.

Kathy Adams Riester:
There won’t be any drugs. Kids are welcome to stay over. So we had a serious conversation that dinner their table with him about, again, you know, no alcohol, no drugs, no sex. And, and his response was like, wow, he’s like first I’m scared of drugs and I’m not going to have sex. I mean, he just like, kind of, so he’s like, you know, I know I’m hearing this. I’m like, well, we have to have these conversations. So that, that was his response to, it was funny. But then his brother was also home this weekend from college and we had a conversation and he admitted to me for the first time he’s been dating the same girlfriend for a little over a year, probably, maybe going on a year and a half that he said, mom, actually, I’ve never told you this. But the first time I went to kiss, call his girlfriend.

Kathy Adams Riester:
I asked her if I could kiss her. And she actually said, no. So for me, that was a huge mom win because I was like, well, something they’re listening and hearing what I have to say. And then he was like, yeah. And you know, you’ve always said that. So, you know, I always ask, you know, so I, for me that was huge to know that, you know, that ongoing conversations about things like this, like consent that are really important is something that is in to their young male adult brains.

Kim Steed-Page:
I love that. I just like to say thank you for sharing that, Kathy, because my 17 year old is going to prom on Saturday. with a date so we’ve been having that conversation too. I hope it’s sinking in. Yes.

Megumi Moore:
Love it. Well, I’m glad I’ve got a while to go before I’m at that stage.

Heather Shea:
Oh my gosh. Yeah. This is why you all know. I learned all these things from Kathy. I’m like, okay, no, to self talk about consent. I, we, we definitely have that conversation a lot as well. Kim, I’d like to hear a little bit more from you though about most challenging aspects of the past couple of years. And also with respect to your job as a person who works directly with students who are moms and dads and parents in general what are the challenges that you’ve noticed in that community as well as any unexpected or positive things that have arisen?

Kim Steed-Page:
Yeah, that’s a great question. You know, early on when my office switched to virtual check-in and office hours, you know, one of the things that I was hearing a lot particularly from moms was the managing, managing emotions or, and discipline of their kids. That was something that because as things, if you, early on, when the kids went home from school, you know, things just kept continuing to be canceled. It was kind of one thing after another of sporting events even spring break in the way, you know, trips that had been as scheduled, you know, opportunities, you know, particularly some of the international families that I work with were going to have an opportunity to do some traveling. And we’re looking forward to seeing other parts of Michigan, other parts of the country, even in all of that was really canceled.

Kim Steed-Page:
So I would get check-ins from parents. And again, it was mostly moms who were kind of doing this management of these emotions around just how do you talk about disappointment when I also am feeling the same disappointment as they are, you know, it’s terrible, what’s happening, and we’re grateful to be healthy, you know, and alive. So that balance of wanting to honor their kids, you know, feelings and emotions, and that disappointment was, you know, okay. And how they were feeling was perfectly fine, but also being mindful that, you know, things were happening, you know, that were out of the control. So that was something that was difficult for a lot of families. In addition to trying to manage their own schoolwork childcare continues to be a challenge. I think both for student families and professional families at MSU, but also, you know, around the country.

Kim Steed-Page:
I’m the president of our affiliate childcare center on campus of the board there. And it’s incredibly short staffed, you know, hours have changed. So for students just being able to navigate, you know, coursework as we returned back to expectations around in-person classes and things. So everybody wasn’t happy about the return to in person classes because those virtual opportunities were really helpful for some parents around because of the childcare issue. And so, and I would definitely say there were some unexpected or unanticipated positive things that I heard a lot and also experienced. And a lot of that was, are particularly around opportunities to spend time and have conversations with their kids, normally in a pre COVID world. One of the things that we used to hear a lot from our student parents is that they didn’t have time for the extras, the fun stuff, the you know, opportunities to spend time I’m reading with their kids, or, you know, asking them different questions about life, about current events.

Kim Steed-Page:
And so this pandemic time slowed us down into the point where they could, and myself also think about, you know, what was really important, almost really get to know our kids. I got to know my then 15 year old a lot better than I think I would have had. He had all of his normal outings, because he’s a social, very social being. So the fact that we had time to really, you know, just talk and, and dream and be silly together, you know, align with the rest of the family was a really positive opportunity. And that was one of the things that we tried to do with our student families virtually time is create those moments and opportunities for them to do the same thing. So those were definitely positive, you know, really positive outcomes. And I guess the last thing that I would just say about that is the reprioritizing.

Kim Steed-Page:
No, I had a mom, a student mom say that to me. She said, you know what I learned no is a complete sentence. And I thought I’m stealing that, that’s awesome. That no, absolutely is a complete sentence. And for her she is the primary parent in a two two parent household and she is also the student and she really has taken a lot of time to learn about saying no. And, and understanding that no doesn’t necessarily require a whole bunch of after explaining that no was no. And I thought that’s going on our social media, that’s going, all over. No is a complete sentence. So that was definitely a positive takeaway and learning opportunity for all of us.

Heather Shea:
Any follow up or reactions from the other three of you?

Megumi Moore:
I think, you know, working from home has been such a, you know, like in between meetings, you can go get baby snuggles, you know, or like check in with, you know, we, we end up passing him back and forth a lot, you know, it’s like, okay, your meeting is here and my meetings at this time. And so, okay, great. We’ll them off, you know? And we have a little bit of help with her mom and one of her former students who’s been babysitting for us, but we haven’t had childcare. We were on a wait list. And for that way we, we were just past the first trimester. So we’re telling people that we’re having a baby and everyone that we knew that worked in Michigan State was like, get on right now, write lists for childcare. You’re probably already behind .

Megumi Moore:
We’re like, oh my gosh, also congratulations. But, but you know, like it was this urgency to do it. And I see why now. But you know, we were able to have this kind of patchwork quilt of support around us as, and, and, and juggle, you know, working some on the weekends, working some of the evenings, thankfully both of our jobs are, are that kind of flexible? Because I can’t imagine how hard it would be to be completely gone at work from like in an office from like eight to five every day. And I just, I can’t imagine, I wouldn’t want a job like that anyway. But but yeah, I think the, the hidden perks of that, and I think you, even for Ashley and I, we got married and bought a house and had a baby during all during a pandemic and our, the time that we’ve spent together quarantining and being in our little bunker you know, it’s also accelerated I think our relationship and, you know, it feels like we’ve feels like we’ve been together a lot longer than we have, because it’s been the two of us, you know, just doing so much together.

Megumi Moore:
And so that’s, that’s been something that I wouldn’t take back.

Alexandria White:
And I think as I listen to the story is a diversity person. I think of the advantages that all five of us have on this call . And I think of how much childcare costs and some of our families and maybe our listeners are struggling to pay for daycare. I think of how we have the autonomy possibly in our positions to, you know, up and leave, right when we forget our child or they need to take off, or we have to work for home, but as I think about the someone who’s listening to this podcast and might not have the advantages that we have as we discussed this, I think of allyship I think of resources, how self-advocacy could be a possibility for people who might not have this ability to do a lot of things that we’re discussing in regards to food we, we like to feed our babies, right.

Alexandria White:
My, the 17 year old eats a lot at, and we know that food prices and inflation, and we have to put that in the conversation and we have to put just say a mirror on everybody might not be able to have that and what can we do in our positions? And what I do is when I’m in spaces, I make sure that I am bringing attention to that. Do we have food banks on campus? Do we have the ability to donate time to people, if you have extra time or vacation time, do you have the ability in your circle of influence to help a mom who might be an admin who might not be at the top of the totem pole in regards to hierarchy. And so I just wanted to put that in space and leave room for people moms partners, who just not be able to be at that point yet.

Heather Shea:
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that. And I think that’s a really important point to remember is that, you know, we’re all, we’re all employed right. And have jobs in all of that. And I think it’s, it’s really key. I think one of the other things I think a little bit about are strategies that we use or adopted or started to figure out. And so Alexandria, can I stay with you for a moment and talk a little bit about some of the things that you’re continuing to do today that maybe even though we’re back in some level of, I don’t even know what we’re in right now. We’re not post pandemic. We’re like continuing evolving, you know, people can wear masks when they want, I guess, is the new norm, but what are some strategies that you’re kind of keeping and holding onto and caring from this time?

Alexandria White:
Oh, there’s so many. I think the pandemic has taught me, I am type A personality. I do. like to control things sometimes. The pandemic has thrown that away. Sometimes when my daughter looks at me and she’s like, who are you? You mean, you’re not mad. not mad. It’s it’s a pandemic. That’s my that’s my go-to. And so giving myself grace as well as others not controlling what I can control and then learning everything really just go, I took a more nonchalant attitude about a lot of things. I think empathetic empathy is one thing that I thought I practiced pre-pandemic. But I am honing on in it. I am in the and ways that I can improve and just making sure that people around me and communities and conversations that I’m having, that I’m practicing empathy.

Alexandria White:
And as I do the diversity work and I have difficult conversations with people with, you know, not popular views empathy is some thing that I am keeping and always being aware of at this time and mental and physical health. Couple of weeks ago I had a cancer scare. And so yeah, that just adds to my attitude too. Like, this is all, this is all temporary. Right. and when you have a cancer scare, you’re like, Hey, that’s really not a big deal and mentions and physical health are just those two and being empathetic. Yeah.

Heather Shea:
That’s what I, yeah. Yeah. Thank you for, thank you for sharing that. And I’m glad to hear you’re okay. It is, it is amazing how sometimes you get at those moments of like all of these things I was worried about before I no longer need to worry about, and I think I’m a worrier. And so in some ways it’s like, well, this is just what we’re doing now. So let it go. Right. I also want to say too, I think the work that you’re doing Alexandria at the at institutional structural level is really key. So as we’re talking about kind of our own lived experiences, I think one of the kind of key pieces that we can hopefully also consider is how can we advocate for change within our organizations or within the larger profession. And I know there’s certainly been kind of a movement towards work life balance or work-life integration, this kind of concept of self care community care. And Meg actually came and guest lectured in my class that I teach about this particular topic. So and as a new mom, I can imagine there’s a layer of this that is maybe more present in terms of sleep or also the physical health piece. Can you talk a little bit about what you’re doing to kind of consider self-care?

Megumi Moore:
Yeah, yeah. It’s just one of my favorite things to talk about and if I put into practice consistently, all the things that I share in my guest lectures, I’d be happier, healthier person. But because it’s hard. It’s just really hard. But I think the, the first thing that when I think about self-care is like I have to be in tune with myself. Like I have to be leave enough room for me to and notice how I’m actually doing. Mm. And so I know at this age, like what my tells are, you know, a certain kind of sharpness that comes out in my tone or just a lack of my threshold for frustration becomes very small. My wife often catches before I do that. I’m stressed out because of those things, because she’s so finally tuned to like, she’s like, I think maybe you need some alone time tonight and I’ll think I’ll be like, no, I think I’m fine.

Megumi Moore:
She’s like, I think you need some alone time tonight. and so it’s wonderful to have, but then to, to that point too, self care also really is it’s a misnomer because it’s a community care. It’s a, it’s being around people who who notice and help you notice what you might need to be your best self to be, you know, to have that person show up. And then, and then responding it. But what’s been so hard about the pandemic is that so many of my self-care strategies have been stripped from me. The pandemic has distance distance between me and people that I love me and things that I love. And, and the strategies that I have come to. Finally, I finally tuned through years of my own therapy, the things that I need to take care of myself and I, and so many of them have been taken away.

Megumi Moore:
I’ve had to dig really deep and look for new ways to center myself, to ground myself. I’ve had to work really hard to do that. But I think so it’s, it’s just doubling down on the things that we know work, even if they’re simple. It’s been humbling too. I’ve found that a lot of the breathing exercises and like I did a three minute at body scan meditation this morning and it was just, just, you know, it’s the kind of thing where I think is that really going to help it’s three minutes, like, Hey, I’m just going to go on with my day, but it’s, it’s taking it seriously. And it’s making again a little bit of time. I don’t have time or the attention span for a 15 minute meditation. I cannot do it. I’ve tried three minutes.

Megumi Moore:
I can do. So it’s also finding what works for you and not like guilt tripping yourself into something. Like, I didn’t have time for like a full on workout, but you know what, I walked up and down the a couple of times. So I think that has been one of my mantras is that something is always better than nothing. And if I don’t have time to do a full workout, I don’t have time to journal and really connect with myself. What is something that I can do and the time that I have and, and that’s been really helpful. And then the last thing I have been thinking about a lot lately has been slowing down and asking myself like gently, Hey, what do you want to do right now? You’ve got this like open block of time. What do you want to do instead of filling it with my do list or the things I should do, it’s just slowing that down because especially as a new mom, like what I want to do, because sometimes so far away I want to sleep through the night that could be years.

Megumi Moore:
Like like, so I, you know, I’ve gotta, but so there’s a lot of things that I want to do that I can’t do, but, but keeping in touch with myself and saying, but what I’m still a full person, you know? And, and yeah, a lot of my Kieren gets to be he’s the, the, you know, where most of my energy and free time goes, and then Ashley gets the rest of whatever I have, but, but I still have to have stuff for myself to have something to give. And so it’s just, what is it that I want right now? How do I want to spend this little bit of time that I have, and like tuning into that and honoring that. And so again, it can be a five minute thing that it’s living with the intention to care for myself, and to recognize myself as like worthy of that time, a lot less discretionary time these days, but it’s not about the quantity, it’s about the intention. And that’s what I’ve really been trying to focus on.

Heather Shea:
Yeah. Thank you so much. We’re already at the end of our time and I, I know Alexandria, you have something else you’re going to go to, so I’m going to start with you and then if you need to dip out, you absolutely can. So our podcast is called Student Affairs Now we always kind of end with the question. If you could take a moment to summarize what you’re thinking, pondering, questioning excited about or something that came up during this episode that you want to like continue thinking on. That would be great. So I’ll start with you, Alexandria.

Alexandria White:
I think I’m excited about the possibility of so many opportunities for our nation, our community to be better. There is a lot of things that are coming up there’s the ending of the academic year and what that looks like for college campuses. I think of Asian American Pacific Islander month is coming up and I’m, I’m thinking of my a API brothers and sisters and SAM’s and everything. And then the two year anniversary of George Floyd is so many things that are going on and what’s this going to show up for, for our world, I have picked a word that I’m continuously going to be using. And that is grace. And I think as moms, we need to give each other grace, sometimes we can be kind of mean to other moms and we need to give ourselves grace as doing the best that we can. I kind, I love what Meg said about, just do something right. You don’t have to be the whole yoga for an hour meditation for the an hour, if you can just get five minutes in. So give yourself grace and in closing, thank you, Heather, for having this this platform, this information highway for student affairs and in our profession, but grace and the possibility of doing better and being better than we were tomorrow, yesterday and the year before. So grace is my word.

Heather Shea:
Well, thank you again so much for your work and establishing SAM’s as a space and for joining us today, Alexandra, I really appreciate it. Meg, what’s your kind of clothing closing thought about what’s happening now?

Megumi Moore:
Well this podcast, like even prep preparing for it and thinking, you know, like what, you know, what I was going to say or things I would discuss. And and I think for a lot of folks that becoming a mom has a lot of other layers to it. For myself, my relationship with my own mom was something that was you know, it was, it was a challenging relationship. And so and still is sometimes and so BEC entering into into motherhood has like a weight to it because of that. And, and, and I also think of the, not on traditional path that I’ve taken to motherhood where, you know, my wife carried our son using a donor. And so like, you know, like, what does that mean? Am I, how am I a mom?

Megumi Moore:
And how is that journey different than, than other moms? And sometimes I feel myself wanting to explain that when someone’s like, oh my gosh, you’re a mom. I was at the chiropractor and someone was talking about out their wrist. Both of our wrists hurt from carrying our growing babies. And she’s like, oh my gosh. And she was bonding with me. I almost wanted to say well, but my wife had the baby, you know, like this, like, disclaimer, that I’m not quite, you know, do I get to sign up for the moms groups because I mean, I’m a mom, right? So I, I think there were a lot of people out there too that have had on traditional past to motherhood or not what they expect. And I just think that like, what, like how do we own our place in the constellation of motherhood?

Megumi Moore:
And feel confident and not feel secure or not, because you know, we talk about an imposter syndrome in all the different ways that that comes up in higher education spaces. But I think this is one of those too, is, is that feels like there’s an asterisk by my name when I say like I’m a mom, here’s the story of how, I mean, why? I mean that, you know, so yeah, I think that’s been part of, part of my, my journey too, is, is resting in that that moms look different. The journey and experience a motherhood looks different and to be yeah, to, to be confident and proud of the space that I take up in that way.

Heather Shea:
Oh, thank you so much for naming that. I want to give you air hugs. You are such a mom, you are such a mom. Thank you so much for sharing. I really appreciate that. Meg. Kathy, what are your takeaways? What are you thinking about now?

Kathy Adams Riester:
So I’m thinking about I’m a little bit back to one of the earlier questions about what are we taking, like lessons learned or things we think about that we gained for COVID and part of it is remembering the flexibility that we had to have, and I think that it continues to be a really great tool. The flexibility to move on. I also think all of Alexandria’s comments about grace is so important because I think we learned that that was really important during COVID and that’s not something I want us to forget. Yeah. As we’re moving to for, so not only grace with other moms, but I think grace with our coworkers and colleagues and partners and grace with our children, because sometimes they know how to push your buttons and you just have to like take a deep breath or walk in another room for a minute.

Kathy Adams Riester:
So, you know, because they also are, you know, growing and learning little humans. So, so I think that’s important. So I think those things I’m thinking about that, but I’m also thinking about then how do we look at this the summer in particular for staff and the people that we work with? Like we really need some renewal time and we need some kind of that hopefully an ability to take a step back, take a big breath, have some time off and, and vacation time and being able to kind of then refocus some, remember why we’re in this field and why we, you know, a lot of us have chosen this, this career and that we love it. And hopefully reconnecting with the why of why you love what you’re doing, and that helps energize you moving into the fall. Cause I don’t, I think things are probably still going to be difficult as we move in and out of how do we navigate just the pandemic that probably is never going to truly end and we keep having issues around it. So, so I think looking at that and having that refresh and renewal time this summer, and hopefully that also helps us with, you know, people are thinking about leaving the field, actually, maybe having a break and, and then deciding, you know, is it, do I want to continue here or do I want to look at other options is part of that, but I think everyone’s ready for that kind of ability to take a breath and have a break.

Heather Shea:
Yes. Oh my gosh. Yes. a hundred percent. Kim, what are your takeaways or reactions? Yeah, I mean, honestly

Kim Steed-Page:
Mine, you know, was grace to give more grace and to also receive it. You know, a lot of times I think moms in particular are, were very hard on ourselves and even sometimes are the ones placing the you know, the unrealistic expectation or the expectation period to do certain things. So just this conversation today just really reinforced for me about sharing that reminder to, with our families, you know, that I work with. But then, you know, also for me is that give grace, but to receive it as well.

Heather Shea:
Yes, 100%. And I just want to my gratitude and gratefulness for all of you and for Alexandra who had to duck out for joining today and for those who are concerned that we are having in a mom’s episode, but not a dad’s episode, there will be a dad’s episode being hosted by Glenn DeGuzman. Apparently there’s a Facebook group called student affairs dads. Don’t call us sad which makes me laugh every time I think of it. So thank you all for joining and for sharing your contributions today on this conversation and also just to send a heartfelt appreciation to our dedicated behind the scenes work of Nat Ambrosey, our production assistant. Thanks so much Nat.

Heather Shea:
If you’re listening today and not already receiving our weekly newsletter, please visit our website at studentaffairsnow.com and scroll to the bottom of the homepage to add your email to our MailChimp list while you’re there, check out our growing archives. Thank you to so much to our sponsors of today’s episode. Simplicity is the global leader in student services, technology platforms with state of the art technology that empowers institutions to make data driven decisions specific to their goals. A true partner to the institution, Simplicity supports all aspects of student life, including, but not limited to career services and development student conduct and wellbeing, student success and accessibility services. To learn more, visit simplicity.com or connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Our second sponsor today is Vector Solutions or EverFi. How will your institution rise to reach today’s socially conscious generation. These students report commitments to safety, wellbeing, and inclusion, as important as academic rigor when selecting a college it’s time to reimagine the work of student affairs as an investment, not an expense for over 20 years Vector Solutions, which now includes the campus prevention network.

Heather Shea:
Formerly EverFi has been the partner of choice for 2000 plus colleges and new universities and national organizations with nine efficacy studies behind our courses, you can trust and have full confidence that you will be using the standard of care for student safety, wellbeing, and inclusion. Transform the future of your institution and the community you serve. Learn more at vector solutions.com/studentaffairsnow. Please take a moment to visit our website and click on the sponsors link to learn more about each of our partners. Again, I’m Heather Shea, thanks to everyone who is listening and to everyone who is watching. We wish everyone a Happy Mother’s Day, and we look forward to making it a great week.

Websites:

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