Becky Crandall
And then two last other quick tips that I thought of was one is to use social media. And I don’t mean those beautifully curated, university or program site, you’re not gonna see real life on that, then it’s just like stock photo kind of quality stuff. But when I’m trying to get a feel for any place, and I’m thinking about moving or attending, I searched the location tags on Instagram, just to try it or things like that, just to try to get a vibe of like, where people are tagging photos, seeing how people are like, really living their lives. And then thinking about the fact that you’re not just considering a graduate program, but you’re considering your life being changed in some ways. And so for some folks, it may mean that you’re completely uprooting your life, and you’ve got to figure out is this a city or a town where I could not just survive, but thrive. And so doing a little digging on the location itself, and just making sure that you don’t just love your program, but that you’re you feel safe, you feel seen, and you’re gonna feel a sense of belonging in the city itself.

Heather Shea
Welcome to Student Affairs NOW the online learning community for Student Affairs educators. I’m your host of today’s episode Heather Shea. Today on the podcast we’re queuing up the next in a series of episodes for careers in student affairs month. We’re building on a recent episode which answered the question is a student affairs graduate program right for me with some practical tips think of this episode as the secret decoder ring episode for everything grad school selection application enrollment. We have got several faculty members program coordinators of Graduate Programs in Higher Ed and student affairs from across the US here to help demystify this process. And today’s episodes my panelists will be offering guidance and expert advice as you consider applying to graduate programs in Student Affairs in Higher Ed. But before I bring on my guest today, let me tell you a little bit about our channel. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and learning community for 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We hope you’ll find these conversations make a contribution to the field and our restorative to the profession. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays and you can find us at studentaffairsnow.com on YouTube or anywhere you listen to podcast. Today’s episode is sponsored by Symplicity. A true partner Symplicity supports all aspects of student life with technology platforms that empower tutions to make data driven decisions. Stay tuned to the end of the podcast for more information about this episode sponsor. As I mentioned, I’m your host for today’s episode Heather Shea, my pronouns are she her and hers and I am broadcasting from the ancestral traditional and contemporary lands of the nation avec three fires confederacy of Ojibwe, Odawa and Potawatomi peoples, otherwise known as East Lansing, Michigan, home of Michigan State University where I work. So as I said at the other episode, I’ve recently found myself engaging in several conversations with undergraduate students who are sure who are sharing kind of this common aspiration, potentially pursuing a career in student affairs. But I know that searching for and applying to grad school can be a really overwhelming process. So we’re going to be unpacking some of the language processes, timelines, and important considerations for prospective graduate students with my panel today, so let me bring them all in. Hello, everyone. Joining me today are Dr. Becky Crandall from Oregon State University, Dr. Stacey Garrett from Appalachian State University, Dr. Gavin Henning from New England College. And my colleague, Dr. Patricia Marin, from Michigan State University. Welcome all of you. Thank you for joining me on this episode of Student Affairs NOW, I’d like each of you to give just a brief intro about how you’re coming into this conversation today. And then also, please share where you went to grad school for your master’s degree, whether it was in student affairs or something else, why you chose that program, and then what you wished you would have done differently in the process. And Becky, I think we’re gonna have you kick us off.

Becky Crandall
Wonderful. Well, hi, everyone. My name is Becky Crandall. And I use she her pronouns. And as was mentioned, I’m delighted to be joining you all from the Pacific Northwest, where I serve as an associate professor of practice in the adult in higher education program at Oregon State University. And I’m grateful for months like this for so many reasons. But part of that is because of my own journey. My grad school journey is a bit unique in that I don’t have a master’s in higher education or student affairs. Back when I was an undergrad in the mid 90s. I knew that I wanted to work with students, but I didn’t know that student affairs was a career option to be honest, the only people that I knew who worked with college students were folks who were in campus ministry. And so I decided to attend a seminary in New Orleans, Louisiana after my undergraduate degree, and I earned a Master’s of divinity. So again, just a very atypical kind of path into this work. And I named that. But I also recognize that there are probably some similarities in that decision making process that folks are wrestling with, as they’re making these decisions today. And there are some things that I wish I had done differently even though I know that I’m here today because of the path I chose. But one of those key things is I wish that I had considered different types of institutions or programs. And Case in point, I didn’t know that. There were different types of divinity schools that I could have considered and in hindsight, some of those might have been a better fit for me. I had a wonderful experience but just didn’t explore even beyond a specific geographic region. I was limited in scope there and a lot of that had to do with funding. Frankly, I just had to go where I could afford to go and I like to the people there, but money was a real a real determining factor for me. And so I didn’t know about things like fellowships or assistantships. And and I really wish that I had sought help in that regard. Honestly, I think it was a lack of knowledge related to who could help me. But also it was a pride point, I wanted to figure this out on my own. And so like I said, I really do wonder if things might have been different had I had access to or even saw those perspectives. And so again, thanks for doing this podcast, I think it’s a remarkable thing and wish this been a thing back when I was going through the process.

Heather Shea
Thanks, Becky. Stacey, welcome,

Stacey Garrett
Hi Everyone, Stacey Garrett, I use she her pronouns. And I currently serve as an associate professor of higher education as well as our program director. And I’m here again at Appalachian State University, home to the Cherokee Catawba and other indigenous village, indigenous peoples that have inhabited the western North Carolina region, also known as Boone, North Carolina. But I attended James Madison University for my master’s degree. And the official title of my degree is an M Ed in counseling psychology, with a concentration in College Student Personnel Administration. And I say all that because that was part of the conversation that folks had with me when considering a search for a master’s program and kind of had mentors and folks that I sort of interviewed to learn more about the field. And one of the decision points was about types of institutions and looking at, you know, counseling based versus administrative based. And so I think that really factored into part of why I chose JMU, given what I knew, and that would be my path into the field, a 22, which has shifted over time, but having that more people oriented, the helping side of things was really what drew me into the field. But another reason I chose that program was, again, I received some advice of you know, folks saying, while my undergrad institution had a program in the field, I was encouraged to go to a different program and institution to explore different institution type. And so I was given the example of sort of larger institutions with 40 plus 3000 plus students. And that was a little overwhelming coming from I think, at the time, my undergrad would be 6000 7000 students. But I did end up at JMU, which at the time was maybe about 15. It’s grown since then. But I was able to make that shift to get a different experience around size. But I think I also was focused on the package around that was offered. So again, on some other advice that really stuck with me from my freshman year, and like my freshman roommates, mom said that you should, quote unquote, never pay out of pocket for your education. And I know that’s not always within everyone’s grasp. But at that time, 20 years ago, that was, I think, maybe more feasible, and that really stuck with me. And so at the time, that program was offering, you know, tuition and state tuition stipend through an assistantship process, these internships were required. So it was like this guaranteed way to cover the costs. And so I think when I received my offer from Jamie, I was like, yeah, absolutely, you’ve checked all these boxes of what I was looking for in a grad program. And, again, that led to a whole lot of other connections with people and the network that I started building through that program. But if I could go back, I think, at some point in my educational journey, I would have chosen some more differential institution types, I have somehow ended up at only rural, predominately white institutions over my career from working or attending. And so I think going back, I would have considered potentially an HBCU, a private institution, something outside of the Mid Atlantic region, I don’t have all too much variance in my trajectory. So if that is within some, your students grasp, I would say, look and consider some of those factors. Geography Matters, especially nowadays. So thinking about where you’re, where you’re going to school, location wise, and not just type or things like that. But all those factors are important. So that’s just a little bit of the things that led me to where I went,

Heather Shea
right. Thank you so much, Stacey. Gavin, fellow Spartan here.

Gavin Henning
So I’m Gavin Henning. Is he him his pronouns, and I’m professor of higher education. And I direct our Master of Science of higher education program as well as our three doctoral programs at New England College. And most people don’t even have heard of new going College. I’ll tell you a little bit about it’s a small private liberal arts institution is central New Hampshire. And we’re actually on the traditional lands of the Abenaki Pennycook and Pennock. And so as Heather mentioned, I did my master’s degree at Michigan State University And I kind of fell into it. You know, I was really involved as an undergrad, there was a academic advisor who said, Hey, you can actually go into this as a field. But I aspired to be a clinical psychologist. And so I really kind of prepared my academic career to do that. And so I was a psychology major, I actually added a second major in sociology, so I can actually double the research that I could do with faculty members, because there was a 12 credit limit. And so I’m like, I want to set myself up for that, you know, and my grades are pretty, pretty good. But as a first generation college student, I didn’t really understand how this graduate thing work. And so I applied to a bunch of programs, 10 different programs, and I got rejected from all of them. And so that was pretty disappointing. I’m like, Well, what am I going to do now? And you know, Michigan State has a great master’s program, and folks said, you should, you know, stay here and do your masters program here. So I applied like, actually later in the spring of my senior year and got in. But the problem was, there are no assistantships left, because I had applied so late, unfortunately, pre a hall director when I was my student had moved into student life. And she cobbled together this assistantship administering medical withdrawals. And so I paid I paid the bills. You know, it’s so I got tuition remission, I got a housing stipend, because, you know, the, the assistantship wasn’t on campus. So I paid for that, but obviously not. I did learn a ton from doing that. And so I really wish I would have thought about moving into, you know, applying to a student affairs program earlier, so that I would have had a better chance at different types of assistance trips. You know, my second year in the program, I was, I worked in residence halls as a graduate assistant, and I learned a ton. And so I just wish I would have thought about that earlier. So I could have really leverage that practical experience during the first year in the program.

Heather Shea
I’ve known you Gavin for 20 some years, and I did not know all the details of that. Sorry. To hear more. Patricia, welcome.

Patricia Marin
Thank you. Thank you. It’s always great to be in conversation with amazing colleagues. My name is Patricia Marin. I use she her pronouns. I’m an associate professor at Michigan State and coordinator of our student affairs master’s program. Like Heather, I’m here on the lands of the confederacy of Ojibwe, Ottawa, and Potawatomi peoples. My master’s degrees from the University of Vermont, in Student Affairs Administration actually is called Higher Ed and student affairs was at least what it was called when I was there. And why UVM I’m from New York, it was east coast. And it was the one that paid for me to go to school. I was a hall director, and I left UVM with zero debt, can say that for my undergrad? That was that was a big a big decision. And a big part of that decision. What would I have done differently? I was thinking about this as I listened to others. For a lot of reasons I chose UVM, because I needed to be near family at that time. So there are a lot of additional reasons that go into the choices that we make. So I don’t think that I would have done anything different. What I think about often though, is I wish I would have had access to all the resources that our students have now to answer these questions, right. There were no websites, there were no, there was no social media, there was no way to communicate with with programs in easy ways. And so you know, I wish that had been different. But 30 years ago, that wasn’t our reality. So. So here we are.

Heather Shea
Thank you so much. Just to add a little bit about my story to answer these three questions. I went to Colorado State University, the student affairs and higher education SAHE program. I chose CSU because I had been an involved undergraduate student at Colorado State. And when I decided to quit my internship and graphic design, I was like, Well, I guess I better figure out what I finished my bachelor’s of Fine Arts. And so I went into Student Affairs kind of without really much consideration and didn’t look at any other programs. Oh, pretty well for me. But I agree, and I really wish that I would have explored other options. And so that’s today’s podcast, right? So if you’re watching today, and you’re an undergraduate student, or maybe you’re a professional looking to make a career change, hopefully today’s episode we’ll unpack some of that. those logistics. So Stacy, we’re going to start with like a segment around where to apply. And I love for you to talk a bit about where does one go to begin their search for grad schools? And who on campus might be a good resource to talk to about searching for and applying to grad school?

Stacey Garrett
Yeah, so I alluded to this a little bit in my intro, but I would really start with your mentors or supervisors, if you’re currently involved on campus or working on campus. Ask folks about their experiences in school, ask them why they chose that institution, why they chose that program. I know, again, I did a number of informational interviews with people some that knew me already some that didn’t just to get a feel for like what, you know, you know, if you didn’t know me, it’s like, you know, where I might fit in like, or I might find connection? Where would I succeed, and getting a list, and then, you know, taking that list as my starting point, to help narrow my search, or just to even learn about what kinds of decision points there are. So like we’ve mentioned, like, there’s a lot of different factors that go into what would work for someone and what wouldn’t, based on all the different roles and responsibilities that you might hold, or that may just impact your ability to be successful. And so you want to don’t dismiss that, I would never recommend that anyone, like, just, you know, clear the decks in terms of their responsibilities or limitations and just go, you know, political only go where they want, like, yes, go where you want. And it’s okay to factor in all the personal things that impact decision making, and just credit those factors. And then, you know, this sounds trite, but Google that’s doing a broad search of, you know, what are the programs in my state? What are the programs in this region, because you might not know about schools that are out there, if you you know, especially if you’re in a state that has a lot of big, like flagship institutions, you might only think about, oh, I only know, you know, Colorado, like University have, because of what I see on Saturday mornings, like, you know, I don’t know what else is out there in Colorado, but there’s a lot of schools in Colorado, you know, so don’t limit yourself based on what you know, based on like, when you think of a certain state or area, like, just see what’s out there. Also, we’ve got a lot of great resources in the field, like, NASPA ACPA, have lists of programs where you can search by state, you can search by type. So utilize those resources that I believe are open to everyone.

Heather Shea
we’ll, we’ll post those in the show notes. I think that’s a, that’s a great reminder, as I will pull some of those resources together for folks. So yeah, thanks.

Stacey Garrett
And then of course, consider location. So not necessarily based on what’s feasible, but also just thinking about where you’ll be supported. So if you have family or friends in an area, that might be somewhere to consider if you’re looking to move to a different region, or at least look around at the ability where you can find community and some chosen family and friends where you can be supported, whether that’s on that campus or in the community of that campus. And again, not to discredit the need that we we need connection, we need people that will embrace us. And so if you’re in a space right now, where you haven’t found that yet, like this could be an opportunity to find that. And so navigate that utilize those resources to really find what you need to be well rounded in your experience and pursuits.

Heather Shea
Alright, thanks, Stacey. Anyone else want to add thoughts about where and who might be good places to? know, we kind of covered it? We’re good. Okay, let’s move on. So, Patricia, let’s dig into the search starting with program focus. So what are the various types of programs? I have heard us talk about college student personnel, I’ve heard of talk about student affairs, higher ed, counseling, etc. Can you talk a little bit about why one person might choose a certain type of program over others? And then a little bit of about the difference between the types of degrees if that matters?

Patricia Marin
Sure, sure. So there are a number of factors that folks should be considering applicants should be considering as they’re looking, is the program fully in person meaning there’s a residency requirement of sorts, so you need to be in person and be in the seats in classes. There are programs that are 100% online, you can stay exactly where you are in your pajamas. At two o’clock in the morning, maybe you’re doing your online classes. So if that is something that would work for you and your current life, those might be things to consider. And I think there are also a kind of more hybrid versions there sit somewhere in the middle. Some programs are very much built around a cohort model and when We talk about that group is admitted, and often take a large number of classes together, right. And so you are with the same people learning from each other growing, building relationships and networks. And that is, can be important other programs you go in and you, you know, do your own journey. So you, you won’t necessarily have that automatic network around you. Some programs have very particular emphases or tracks, and you might pick the Student Affairs track or the higher ed track or a counseling track. So you’d want to look for any kind of curricular specifics around the program. Some programs are only full time, and others are part time and some kind of mix. So again, depending on your current life, and what you’re willing to do, or change or unable to change, those are all things you want to consider, right? Can you relocate? When people were talking about look at all the options? Can you relocate? Can you give up a full time job? If that’s the circumstance, can you leave your family and community? Or are there you know, other options right in your backyard that you may not even be aware of? And so all of those are important. You know, the the always controversial question of the MA M Ed. Ms. So, you know, I would say if you, you know, did a general search on this topic broadly, in higher the higher ed world broadly, someone might say that an MA is more focused on theory, an M Ed is more a theory to practice and an MS might often be those degrees that we see, with more counseling focuses. That being said, as you heard, and maybe, you know, following from some of our panelists, it doesn’t always align that way. And so often, it’s really a matter of where the program sits within the university. So is it in the College of Education? Is it in the College of Arts and Sciences? And what degrees were allowed? Whether the program was created? So? So to that, then I say, like, would it? Would it change your career path or your opportunity for a job? If you had one or the other of these degrees? Not really, what matters is the curriculum. So that’s where you’re really going to want to look at, you know, is it more theoretical? Is it theory to practice? Are there counseling tracks? You know, what are the requirements? What are you being asked to study? does it align with what you want? And where do you want to go next in your career? That would be my, my quick take, and I welcome comments from my colleagues who say you’re wrong.

Becky Crandall
No, I don’t think you’re I just want to say I appreciate you naming the reality that it’s not going to have these grant applications necessarily for folks. Because I can imagine a lot of folks watching this are thinking, Oh, my God, I’ve got to get it right. Or I’m forever doomed. And so I appreciate just your naming that and also want to echo that, that, you know, this isn’t necessarily an identity, these are all considerations. But I think evidence about all of us that, you know, life plays out as it shouldn’t, at times.

Gavin Henning
And that’s the only thing. The only thing I’d add is I’m not I think at the masters level, at least in these programs, the differentiation between MA M Ed and an MS is not as distinct it is at the undergraduate level. And so you know, right now, when I, when I look at folks, I’m not even looking at what if it’s an MS. MBB. Ma, it’s really about the master’s degree, and then what their what the curriculum was. And so I think that’s probably the more important piece of it. It’s really just focusing on that curriculum.

Heather Shea
So let’s get into the program focus a little bit. So Gavin, can you talk a bit about higher ed, educational leadership, Student Affairs Administration counseling, how might a program focus open or potentially closed doors for opportunities after graduation as well?

Gavin Henning
So let me tell you a little bit about the program at NEC because it’s not a typical program. So our program is an accelerated program. We have seven week terms, so we take a semester and condensed it into seven weeks. And so students can actually do 40 credits in 10 months if they wanted to. It’s a ton of work. So it’s like two courses per seven week term is a ton of work. But we have some students who do that full time and some students who do a part time but the program was designed for people who are already in higher education working full time who realized that when they with a bachelor’s degree like you know, I really liked this But if I’m going to stay in this field and move up, I need a master’s degree. So that’s why we built this accelerator program because people want to get in and be able to use that degree right away and really kind of move up. It’s a cohort based program. You know, we have two different intakes in the fall and in the spring. But there’s a prescribed curriculum, you know, so there is a structure of coursework. So that’s one thing to keep in mind as well. You know, I think a limitation of our program is that you don’t have the ability to take electives, you know, which I think is a downside, the benefit is, because it’s a prescribed curriculum, although the students are taking all of the classes at the same time. So you really can build those connections, but you don’t have that flexibility. And then there’s this idea of what is the focus of it is an administration is it counseling is a student affairs, you know, we have a higher ed administration program, but I’d say really kind of lean Student Affairs, because a lot of the courses you’d see in our program are student affairs related. And so I think there’s also social justice related programs and equity related programs. So there’s the focus is a little bit different, again, is thinking about what is the curriculum? What are you interested in, what do you want to do, and then it may have an impact depending on what area what functional area you see yourself working in, you know, if you’re going to be working in something that’s Direct Student Conduct contact with some press, like academic advising, or mentoring or tutoring, you might, somebody has might want something that has a little bit more counseling in it. If you’re going to be working with minoritized students, you might want somebody who has a little bit more social justice focus, even if it’s not the intention of focus, at least maybe some coursework, or clearly described, focus on equity throughout all the courses integrated through everything, not just a standalone course. And then higher ed administration, I think, is maybe a little bit more broad, focusing more on the organizational pieces, policy, those types of things. So if you’re looking to do some of those types of things, that might be a way to look. But I think just like Patricia said, it really varies a ton, you know, so there’s really even when we talk about the photo side, it can, the curriculum can vary a lot. And so it’s again, it’s like, there, if you’re interested in one area, take a look at programs that might have those emphasis, but the curriculums really do vary a lot by program. So I don’t know if there’s really anything that’s specific to that.

Heather Shea
I invited each of you on today, because you each do represent different types of programs. So I would love to hear a little bit about as Gavin outlined, kind of what is the nature of the program that you direct? Is it cohort? Is it an M Ed? You know, like, let’s answer some of those basic questions. Stacey, could could you start us off with that? Tell us a little bit about?

Stacey Garrett
Sure. So for the higher education program, and that’s one distinction I do have to make. I have colleagues that also represent a Student Affairs Administration programs, we have two separate programs at our institution. So for higher education, specifically, we are designed for the working professional, that’s our primary population. And so all of our courses are held in the evening. Students can join in person in Boone or online. We are cohort based for our online cohorts to help build that community. And this is also a synchronous online program. So we are meeting in the evenings zoom, and are able to draw students in after they’ve finished their workday. It’s 36 credit hours, we have full time and part time pathways. There’s no GPA requirement or practical requirement, because again, most folks are already working in some field. A lot of working in higher ed, some are also working in other disciplines or industries and are getting this degree to help transition to higher ed. But we do have space in those 36 credits for electives, which can include an internship if someone wants some experience in a different functional area. We also have great partners and a couple different programs across campus so folks can pursue dual degree options. So we have dual degree with our public administration program as well as our MBA program. And those are offered as well in person and online. But yeah, the focus is again, taking that theory straight to practice in that space where folks are already working in the field for the most part.

Heather Shea
Awesome. Thanks, Stacey, Patricia.

Patricia Marin
Sure. At MSU. We are now a 36 credit program, nine credits a semester full time, mostly over two years. So four semesters with us. One of the eight required courses is to do a practicum and often on campus, sometimes on other local campuses to bring that theory to practice. The other four courses are electives that students can take during the course of second, third and fourth some mestres typically, everyone has an assistantship. And I think in part, it’s because if you don’t get an assistantship, maybe you choose to go elsewhere, which we fully understand. Our current cohort is 24 students, our incoming first years. And the other piece that many of our students engage in are graduate certificates. And so we have, for example, a teaching and learning certificate that some of our students also acquire along the way with their electives. And also, frequently in Chicano and Latino Studies, our students often have graduate certificates from there as well as others around the university. So yeah, that’s, that’s a quick version of MSU.

Heather Shea
Great, thank you, Becky, tell us about Oregon State.

Becky Crandall
So Oregon State is a little unique in that our ADM program is in adult in higher education. And so our master’s program is not a student affairs program. In fact, Oregon State, like it sounds like AP state has Has the State student affairs program. It’s actually housed outside of the College of Education. And so the program that I teach in is offered through Oregon State’s eCampus, which means that it is completely online, it’s 100%, asynchronous. And yet, we still have a cohort model, and our students tend to become very close, which really speaks to the beauty of how we can now exist in these virtual spaces and develop and cultivate really solid relationships. So Oregon State is on the quarter system. And so our program is 45 credit hours, it spans two years. And I will offer that similar to some of the programs that have been mentioned, our program is really tailored to accommodate folks who are working full time. And so one of the coolest things to me about our program is the richness of dialogue and class exchange, that happens because you have people that are working full time they’re immersed in this work, and not just within traditional higher education spaces. So drawing from that adult ed piece. We have folks that work in healthcare, we have folks that work in the nonprofit sector. And so again, it’s just a unique kind of experience and like the experiences that I had in grad school, but definitely one worth considering.

Heather Shea
Thank you, Becky, I’m gonna stick with you for just a moment to talk a little bit about internships. practica, assistantship, like all of these are experiential learning opportunities, often coupled with the academic and class experience. Can you talk a bit about how a student might decide about their master’s program based on these addition, additional pieces?

Becky Crandall
So the reality is, is that most programs are going to require these is at least programs that are aligned with CAS standards. So just folks should know that straight out of the gate, this is something that’s pretty standard. And part of the reason for that is because it’s in those experiences that classroom learning comes to life in a very unique and special way. And so when thinking about the roles of internships, and practical and other applied experiences, I would first consider in question whether those types of experiences are required. It doesn’t mean that it’s a bad thing, if they’re not required. But I would be curious if our prospective student if I’m not going to be required to engage in that what options are there for me to gain practical experience, recognizing that some of these programs like the one that I’m situated in, and you heard Gavin describe his program that some of these are tailored for folks who are working full time. And so if I’m a, if that’s me, I’m also going to wonder, how is that reality going to be accommodated within the scope of this curricular emphasis? And so, for example, within a cohort model, is there space for me to maybe integrate that those practicum hours or internship hours across terms? Or is that a rigid timeline with which I have to stick? And how are the faculty willing to account again, for the complexities of perhaps me working full time and getting that practical experience? So one, like I said, you know, are these kinds of experiences required, also, trying to figure out across the board, what support is offered for finding those experiences, I know that can be particularly unnerving for, for students. And So case in point in my current program, as well as the program that I served in prior to Oregon State, we promoted opportunities and certainly leveraged networks that we had to try to generate those practicum opportunities for folks. But part of the learning experiences we saw it for students was for students to be empowered to generate those experiences on their own. And we saw it as a vital part of their networking experience and just socialization professionally. Some folks I know offer practical affairs or do things like that. So again, not that one is better than the other. But the bottom line is, is how am I as a student going to be supported and trying to figure out how All these practicum experiences or internships are going to are going to be kind of flushed out and come to life. So and then the last thing I would say is thinking about what types of options are available, meaning the types of positions themselves. And I always encourage prospective students and current students to remain open minded about this. And the reality is y’all I can’t tell you how many people how many students I knew over the years that would come in and say, and this is what I’m going to be when I grow up, and they wanted, they wanted assistantships, and practically that aligned with that. And for one reason or another, had to deviate from that and ended up falling in love with the work that they did in that practicum and completely made a career shift. And part of it was just, they didn’t, they didn’t know what they didn’t know. And so looking at the slate of options, what other students have done and just try to catch, you know, catch a vision for what might be through those experiences.

Heather Shea
Thanks, Becky. Becky, you mentioned the CAS standards, we happen to have past president of CAS here. Gavin, do you want to just give like a short snippet of what caste is and why that might be an important variable for folks to consider?

Gavin Henning
Yep, so caste stands for the Council for the Advancement of Standards in higher education. And it’s a consortium of 40, higher education associations that come together to develop standards for functional areas, such as Residence Life, Student Conduct, student activities, those types of things. But in addition to that CAS developed standards for Master’s preparation programs, and I’ve been fortunate to be involved with the revision of those in 2012 2019. And then actually, even earlier than that. And so what those outline is, you know, what these are, what programs they they’re going to do, there are some required standards, and there’s some guidelines. And so they outline what the admissions process look like, what the recruiting process should look like, the curriculum requirements, as Becky mentioned, for practicum, or internships or professional practice, it may look a little bit different it for folks working full time, as well as pedagogy and some other things. And so you actually may see programs talk about their compliance with the CAS standards, or they’re aligning with the CAS standards. So that’s a signal that those programs are actually following those guidelines and those requirements. So that might be one other thing to take a look at when you’re reading descriptions.

Heather Shea
Thanks, Gavin. Stacey, I think another piece, in addition to experiential opportunities is focus on Dei, or diversity, equity and inclusion, and belonging. We talked on our previous episode, this is a baseline competency for folks who work in Student Affairs. But how might a student know if a program has a particularly strong focus in DEIB?

Stacey Garrett
Yeah, I would start with the program website. Never underestimate the power of a mission statement, a vision statement or goals for the organization. That’s always a signal for me if it’s in those guiding statements, and those guiding values that is a at least is the setup, for the potential for that to be embedded throughout the curriculum and the coursework. And so that’s always my first kind of cue, I would also look at the coursework. So that might mean going to the Graduate School bulletin, to look at, you know, what is on record, that the program is saying, like, these are our courses, and you can look at Course Description, see how they’re talking about different things. Some will say that, you know, you want to look for that diversity in higher ed course. But that social justice and inclusion course, I would say, also looking at the descriptions to see how that information or those topics are woven through each of the courses and not just concentrated in one course, that’s a different level. So you can kind of gauge and assess, you know, how embedded those principles are in the work. But also look at the faculty websites, see who’s teaching in these programs look and see what’s the research that they’re doing? What are their interest areas? Because I know, and it’s a case for my faculty, our approach to our research is very similar to our approach to our courses. And so these elements, there’s some themes within us amongst faculty. And so you can almost, I would say, almost guarantee that if it’s something that they’re the faculty is passionate about, from a research agenda perspective, it’s going to show up in their in their coursework in their classes and how they approach the work. And again, the same thing with from an advising perspective, a lot of program faculty serve as the student advisors. And so if you can see that theme within the coursework, their research, there’s something that’s core tied to those faculty members that’s going to show up then and how they interact with you as a student, how you might be mentored, and again, where you might feel that sense of belonging and care that I think it’s really important in the field. And as we mentioned, of course, the CAS standards you might see that language showing up in their program websites you might see In our ACPA NASPA competencies embedded in the learning goals for programs, and these DEIB topics are woven throughout the professional standards for our field. And so when you can see that alignment, that connection, I think there’s a good chance you’re going to find a program that’s also moving in that direction and preparing folks to develop that competency.

Heather Shea
Nice. Thank you, Stacey. What would other folks add about either this or any of the other ACPA NASPA competencies?

Patricia Marin
I would I would add, it could be useful to ask what books are being read in those classes? Who are the scholars whose work is being read and assigned in those classes? And what kind of assignments are being done in those classes? I think those are those are some things related to the curriculum. I think, beyond the curriculum, some of our programs also hosts speakers and events and other kinds of things that are related to the program, but often open to the broader community, and who are those people that are brought in? What are the topics that the program is interested in engaging in, not only within the program, but with the broader community as well.

Gavin Henning
Now, one thing I would add is related to the program description of the program learning outcomes. So for academic programs will have learning outcomes for the program, what students should get out of the program, the entire composite of all the experiences. And typically, especially if, with equity, or DEIB, are integrated throughout the courses, they’ll show up in the program. Outcomes, you might not see it as an individual course, especially as a field, we moved to integrating this across everything and not just isolating diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging within one course. But that might be another signal that that’s really an important element for that program.

Heather Shea
Perfect, thank you so much. Let’s move on to segment two of our episode today, which is the how to apply to grad school segment. I knew when I did this, I had no idea what I was doing. And who knows how many, I don’t know 15 years later, when I applied for my my doctorate I was like, and here we go again. So Patricia, let’s get into some of these application requirements. Can you give us an overview of some general requirements that most programs have? I know that some programs require different things? Yeah, we’ll start there.

Patricia Marin
Sure, sure. So the first thing I would say is because each program offers has different requirements, you certainly want to make sure you know what those are for the different programs, right and make sure you get a complete portfolio in based on whatever those requirements are. Generally, I would say you’re probably going to have to write a personal and or academic statement, you’ll typically be asked to respond to very specific prompts. You might also think about this as a writing sample, even though it’s not designated that way, people who are reviewing it are going to say how successful do we think this person can be? How can we provide support to this person if we were to admit them? Also, letters of recommendation are, you know, typically a very standard requirement. You should definitely look if there are any specifics on what type of or from whom the program is interested in those recommendations. For example, many programs might say at least one recommendation should be from a faculty member or someone who could speak to your academic success and potential in graduate school or something like that. A resume in some form either typed into the portal that is used for admissions or, you know, a formal resume on a page. Here you’re going to want to talk about any experience that shows your commitment to student affairs, your experience transferable skills, professionally and paraprofessional. Right, we want to know you were the head of student government, we want to know you were involved in union activities, you know, in your Student Union, anything like that. Transcripts are typically part of this. And the one thing I will say with that is you want to make the requests and orders early to get them in time to campuses. The one thing that is always frustrating, I see my colleagues nodding their head, because we want to make a decision on someone, but we’re waiting on their transcripts because it was you know, requested the day before something. So all of this Think about the timing. Some campuses, some programs require interviews as part of that admissions process. Others do not. And you know, you would coordinate that if they’re virtual, or in person. And the thing over all, I would say, with submitted materials is you’re trying to give a holistic view of who you are, of why this is the path you’re interested in right now. Why now? And why this program? And those answers will be very different, right? We know very clearly, if you say to us all because I want to study counseling in depth, you got the wrong program. So So what is it about us that really excites you about any of the programs you would be applying to? And you want to think about each of these pieces as part of the whole telling us who you are? Right.

Heather Shea
GRE? Do we still require the GRE? So

Patricia Marin
it certainly depends on the program at MSU. You know, we talk to our colleagues, like none of us know, when the last time we actually required it, it’s, you know, certainly for, you know, 1020 years that we have not other programs still do. And so again, it’s just following the rules of the requirements of the program to make sure you have in front of whoever’s making those admissions decisions, the full package, right, we I’m going to say it a little bit differently. We want to know you can already follow some guidelines. That’s that’s part of the process, right? If it’s like, we didn’t say we needed this, why did they give us 12? recommendations? And why did they give us three statements? If we asked for one? Even if your package is amazing. It’s signaling something to us that I don’t think is your intention. So, you know, reading, you know, what I always say is answer the question, right? Like, read the rules, the requirements, follow them, and then ask questions. If it’s confusing, right? Like all of us, it’s, I think, sometimes students feel applicants feel like, Oh, I can’t ask because it’s not appropriate or, or they’re there. I can’t talk to them about this. Ask us, we love to know that students are interested in our programs. And we’d love to help you through that process. So ask us the questions. And let us provide that support for you in this.

Heather Shea
So for folks who are listening, not watching, when I asked the GRE question, everybody shook their head, no. So it sounds like that’s suddenly not not required anymore. And I remember taking the GRE, like, the minute before I apply for grad school, because again, I had just quit my internship and was like, I have to take a test, you know, so thank goodness is not required anymore, for the most part. Um, but what is the timeline for all this? Gavin? Do you can you give us a little bit about like, When do people apply this to careers in student affairs month here, October, you know, should I if I’m graduating in May, should I be thinking about grad school now? Or should I wait until April?

Gavin Henning
Well, I’m going to definitely get a defer to my college because we have rolling admissions, we don’t really have a set time, right. So we do rolling admissions, we actually admit students up to the week before the term starts. And as I mentioned, we have two intakes both in the fall and then in the spring. So we don’t have the same type of timeline. So for us, as soon as students submit all their materials, and they do you know, exactly work pieces that get all the stuff that we need, once we get all those pieces, you know, the admissions folks will send it to the admissions committee within the department, and then we’ll review those and make a decision. So that’s another thing to take a look at is are there timelines? Is it rolling admissions? Is it every, you know, they there’s a deadline of February 1, and at that point, all the materials are gonna be looked at for all the applicants, you know, and then decisions are made. So that may vary a little bit. And I think there’s also different deadlines and timelines for once. The admit invitation has been made when students need to make a choice because there may be a waiting list. And so you know, a lot of our programs have limited space. So you know, if we need people to make a decision, because if they’re, if they’re going to choose a different program, that would provide an opportunity for somebody else. So that would be something to think about. One deadline though, that I think a lot of programs with assistantships adhere to is the Council for Graduate Schools resolution regarding graduate scholars, fellows, trainees, and Assistant So for our programs that have these types of positions, a lot of institutions have signed on and said, they’re not going to require students to respond to offers of financial support. So offers of assistantships prior to April 15. So that might be one thing to keep in mind if a program says we need your response by March 1, you know, keep in mind that a lot of programs have signed on to this resolution that the NACA requires students to make that decision before the April 15 date. Now, that doesn’t mean that’s a bad program or anything, it just keep that in mind that some other programs, they may be waiting until that date. And part of the reason is that because of the competition for you know, high quality folks or these assistantships within these institutions, that we’re not going to compete against each other and start offering, you know, things back in like November 1, because all those spots will be taken up. So that’s why we have NEC but I know my colleagues are gonna have different deadlines and different timelines for these processes.

Heather Shea
Yeah, who else would like to share a bit about this? Stacey maybe?

Stacey Garrett
Yeah. So I think it is October. So I would say now’s the time to think about what your plans might be, should you be graduating in May? Because, again, based on the timeline, generally what happens? I think a lot of programs have a January one or a February one deadline. And if you are in a program, are you looking at programs that do have that assistantship component, a lot of folks are doing their interview weekends, where you’re interviewing for the program and your assistantship at the same time. And those also usually take place in February, early times of the spring semester. So also, then you want to look ahead now to be prepared for those deadlines, because they may have earlier deadlines as well, I know some programs may have like an early deadline of December one or a priority deadline, and then may have a final deadline of February one or something like that. Also, April, one is a day that’s out there, sometimes for programs depending are marked one. So it can vary. But I think this at your senior year, or your final year as an undergraduate, if you’re looking to go straight into a master’s program, now’s the time to start getting in the pipeline in the queue for that so that you don’t miss anything. And also making sure that you’re looking ahead to see those requirements so that you can be kind to your faculty, as you ask for letters of recommendation and giving them enough time lead time for them to write that. So you know, go into them the day before maybe a fall break or November break. And then all of a sudden, you know, they would just but you have a December 1 deadline. People might not want to work during the break. And so giving folks enough time to help you. The same thing again with being mindful of those semester breaks as well, where it’s like, okay, I have a January one deadline, but the university is closed from December 17 through January 6, when semester starts, you might not be able to get that transcript. So be start looking now to get a sense of those timelines and put those deadlines in the calendar and set reminders so that you have what you need on time.

Heather Shea
Yeah, good. Super helpful. Yeah,

Patricia Marin
ours is a December 1 deadline. So we are on the earlier side. So you know, track, big spreadsheet, track the dates get stuff in.

Heather Shea
That’s great advice. So when I think about and we’ve mentioned some of the different requirements, one of them being an interview, or a visit in person, I know my grad program had visit weekends. And I know we’ve done it similarly differently. From year to year, the pandemic really, like upset all of our thoughts about what visit days look like. Becky, can you talk a little bit about how prospective students might learn about a campus without visiting, and maybe some of the ways that these new visit days have been constructed?

Becky Crandall
I just want to say that I actually personally liked the way that the pandemic gave us space to innovate visit days, such that we had to get rid of some of the antiquated ways that we held those weekends, I think specifically about the ways that the old way of doing often put an undue financial burden on prospective students as they were having to not just get to the respective campuses. But you know, we always put our suits on as though that’s what we wear on a daily basis. And so sometimes it was going to purchase new clothes just for this weekend. So I think that the way that institutions and programs have had to restructure these is Very helpful for students. I do understand though, that it is hard to get a feel for a place without stepping foot on campus, because there’s just something about being there and seeing it in person. So I’m curious to hear what others might have to offer in this, but just thinking about a few tips that I have for getting a sense of campus without visiting or one to be sure to fully engage in the virtual offerings that both programs. And I would also say departments often offer these kinds of resources, but to be sure to engage fully. And that should go without saying, but I think about how many times we’re guilty of being on Zoom and multitasking, and, you know, we’re looking at our phones or doing emails or whatever, but carving out time for those and treating those with the same sense of, I guess, focus or priority that you would if you were there in person. And then I will also just say, as somebody who went through the job interview process, during the pandemic, I found myself drawing from some of the resources that the University Office of Admissions offered. So sometimes, you know, you know, whether there’s virtual, I found myself on YouTube, looking at tours and things like that there were just different resources, that outside of the program that the university itself had curated, just so I could kind of glean from those those things, I found that to be very helpful. If that, if that’s not offered, or even if it is, I would also ask the program coordinator, if it would be possible to have a current student take you on a virtual walking tour, I love things like Facebook tour or not Facebook, FaceTime tours, you know, just being able to walk around and kind of see campus through the eyes of kind of a live thing, not walking around necessarily with a zoom call, that would be kind of awkward, but just thinking of creative ways to get to see the spaces where students do live. And then seeing if you could zoom in to class. I know when I was at Ohio State during the pandemic, and we were trying to navigate some of this, we had students that would ask if they could zoom into class? And, of course, yes, we’re well, you’re welcome to do that. And so asking if that’s an option. And then two last other quick tips that I thought of was one is to use social media. And I don’t mean those beautifully curated, university or program site, you’re not gonna see real life on that, then it’s just like stock photo kind of quality stuff. But when I’m trying to get a feel for any place, and I’m thinking about moving or attending, I searched the location tags on Instagram, just to try it or things like that, just to try to get a vibe of like, where people are tagging photos, seeing how people are like, really living their lives. And then thinking about the fact that you’re not just considering a graduate program, but you’re considering your life being changed in some ways. And so for some folks, it may mean that you’re completely uprooting your life, and you’ve got to figure out is this a city or a town where I could not just survive, but thrive. And so doing a little digging on the location itself, and just making sure that you don’t just love your program, but that you’re you feel safe, you feel seen, and you’re gonna feel a sense of belonging in the city itself. So those were, those are just a few tips that I had. But again, if other folks have others, I’d be curious to hear.

Heather Shea
Other additions,

Stacey Garrett
I would just add real quick if programs are hosting, virtual or in person information sessions, make a point to attend one of those, because you can get some of your specific questions asked, a lot of times we’ll have current students participating. So you can get that student perspective on the program and what they’ve experienced or navigated different things. So those can be really helpful. opportunities that are planned and structured, but also can still give you that access and connection point.

Heather Shea
I love it. That’s great. I agree with you. I think the pandemic I mean, in lots of ways has has really forced us to rethink the way that we engage but as increased access in a lot of ways to. So speaking also about access. Graduate school, if you’re paying for out of pocket can be pretty expensive. But there are options. We’ve been talking about assistantships, what is a graduate assistantship? What kinds of benefits come from an assistantship and or their tuition assistance? Patricia, tell us a little bit about how that plays out at Michigan State and then I’ll go to Stacey to talk full time staff folks.

Patricia Marin
Sure, sure. Happy to. So at Michigan State. We’re fortunate to have many partners around the university who offer graduate assistantships and hire graduate students not just from our program to do work, right. Typically it’s about a 20 hour a week position. They are paid a stipend, depending on the position if it’s a live in hall director position that might include housing and meal plan at MSU. It also includes the option for graduate student parking, and some health benefits, tuition assistance MSU, nine credits of tuition at MSU is baseline tuition rate is covered, not covered at MSU. But I know covered it other institutions are some of the other fees that are associated with being being a student. So these are great opportunities financially, but also great theory to practice opportunities that I know that we’ve mentioned, a great deal of all of these opportunities that we have are in some version of student work. And so they are students are able to engage and bring from the classroom to their work, and experience and practice and be supervised by a professional who can also help guide them toward their journey.

Heather Shea
Right, thank you. Stacey talk a little bit about full time folks and others also can weigh in here. I was really fortunate in my doctoral program to be a part of a of a union that provided some great benefits for tuition assistance. What have you seen for full time folks in paying for school?

Stacey Garrett
Yeah, generally, that is one of your benefits that can come with full time employment is a waiver or assistance or remission, for your tuition up to a certain point. So for example, in the University of North Carolina system, employees can take up to three courses or nine credits of any educational four credit course, while they’re employed, and I believe that benefit starts at the time of employment, some places may say you have a delay, where you have to work for a year before you can access that benefit. But I believe our starts with employment. So if you are working full time, at any system school, you can take classes at any system school, and utilize that waiver and so that our students get to make use of that. And you can, you know, folks can also because we have a part time option, folks can take one class at a time and take, you know, one class without waiver and cover the costs of their program, or at least cut it in half if they’re taking two classes at a time. So that’s a really great option. But also, I would say that, you know, scholarships do exist for graduate students, whether you’re a full time student or a full time employee. So be sure to be asking questions about scholarships, whether that’s at your university within the department or the program that you’re applying to. But also more broadly, there’s different ways to access free money throughout your graduate work. And also, as well as if you’re thinking about financial aid, there’s financial aid for graduate students. So whether that’s through the you know, completing your FAFSA, and all those pieces, there are different levels and really specific requirements in some way. So consult your financial aid folks at the institution that you’re applying to, just to make sure you’re eligible about what can be covered in terms of again, full time, part time, making sure courses are part of your official program of study and that sort of thing. But there are other ways to access financial support to pay for your education, or depending on at any point within your however, you’re pursuing your degree.

Heather Shea
Right, Perfect. Well, we are at time usually always running up against the hour. So thank you all so much for your time today. It’s been such a great conversation. We always end our podcast is called Student Affairs NOW we always end with this final question. If you could please take a minute or two to summarize what you are pondering, questioning, excited about or troubled by. And if you would like to share how people can connect with you or learn more about your graduate program, like your Instagram handle, please share that as well. And Patricia, we’re gonna start with you.

Patricia Marin
Sure. I’m always excited at this time of year it’s it’s a time of possibility. It’s a time of hope. We are always thrilled when people are interested and considering our program. But in general, what we always say is we’re thrilled people are considering higher ed and student affairs. We need amazing, bright, hopeful students to become you know, the future creators and re creators of our fields and so, super excited about that. You can email me directly at pmarin@msu.edu. And we also have an Instagram at SAA_MSU so Follow us there. Thank you.

Heather Shea
Thank you so much, Gavin.

Gavin Henning
So I’m thinking about what I know now as a program director, and what I would have told myself as a first gen student navigating this out probably over 30 years ago. And I think you know, now the great thing with you know, back when I was in grad school, there was no computers just came out, no internet, no cell phone. So we really didn’t all the information was in paper. So there’s a ton of information like chronically now, that’s a huge benefit. But the downside is, I think people, prospective students have stopped talking and asking questions. And so what I really learned is that I think prospective students learn a lot by talking to program directors, talking to faculty in the program, asking to talk to students, I think information sessions are fantastic. But even that one on one conversation, students may be more your perspectives, you may be more open to ask some of those questions they wouldn’t ask in public, you know, and Becky mentioned, this whole idea of belonging, you know, so we can learn a lot about the program by looking at the catalog by looking at the course description by looking at the program webpage. But we don’t necessarily get that sense of what the culture is like, what what I belong at that place. And so having those conversations, I think, can help you do that, you know, so start asking you about going beyond the basics about the curriculum. So hot, how do you go about teaching? What’s your philosophy about teaching? How do you support students? If I were to talk to three different current students right now? How would they describe their program? What are the challenges that students have? And then my favorite, what are the weaknesses of your program? Because we always kind of like, don’t really talk about the words, but I think sometimes the honesty can help people really think about, you know, is that a good fit? Or yeah, that’s okay. Or actually, you know, that weakness is the strength for me. And so and the other thing I mentioned is that I want people to be successful. So even if they don’t choose New England colleges program, and I refer them to AP state, Oregon, state, Michigan State somewhere else, I want them to be successful, because again, this is the future of our field. And so I want folks to be able to find a program that meets their needs, where they feel like they belong, so they continue in the field, to really make a difference in the field and make a difference for our students now and in the future.

Heather Shea
Great, Gavin, how can we can connect with you or college?

Gavin Henning
Yeah, my email address ghenning@nec.edu.

Heather Shea
Great. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Becky, your final thoughts?

Becky Crandall
Gosh, you know, my answers were, I guess we’re very different than you all in that I feel like I was a negative Nancy over here, I will say that I’m incredibly excited because it is truly the first day of school here. And so there’s always something so right. We start at quarter systems, y’all. But it’s just the first day of school is always so great. But related to my current answer to institution, I’m thinking about just some interesting things that are playing out with the collapse of the PAC 12. And thinking about how these institutional decisions that sometimes happen outside of our institutions, impacts students and thinking about how we can support student athletes. So that was one thought that I had this morning, but also just thinking about the future of our profession, related to states where these anti DEI policies are playing out. And what is that going to mean for folks as they’re considering grad programs and thinking about where it is that they want to plant their lives and do this work. And so, but just appreciate all that y’all have said, and Gavin, just again, talking about how we can humanize this. And so to folks that are listening and watching, please don’t hesitate to reach out to any of us. And you can contact me at Becky.Crandall@Oregonstate.edu. But I do think, again, we’re all humans. And we are here because we enjoy students, at least in theory, so please, please reach out to us. We’re here to help.

Heather Shea
Awesome, thanks, Becky. Stacey, your final thoughts?

Stacey Garrett
I’m also going to in a similar place to maybe Becky and that I took a little bit more of a troubling space when I thought about this question. And I’m just really questioning how we can modernize our field and our profession. I think at the time that I’ve been in the field, there’s always been this tug of war between or debate between academia and industry or a corporate sector. But I feel like over time that that gap has expanded between what we can, what we’re doing or how we’re maybe academia is lagging behind corporate approaches and what we should be thinking about and how we’re valuing folks. I think that’s a general theme and conversation we’re talking about in the field and across the country in terms of equitable pay and restructuring of positions, things like that. But at the same time, it’s like students need us. We need each other. We need good people in the field in the profession doing this work. And so How do we make this space more more welcoming, more inviting, more supportive for everyone that’s choosing to engage not only in this work, but still engaging in higher education as a student and pursuing advanced degrees. And I think that the what brings us together is still really important. And I think we need to still be inviting folks into that to breathe new life into the field so that it can really help to transform the whole field of higher education. And so I like to, I still love this work. And I still love bringing people into the space to be thought partners in that. And so that’s what keeps me in the field and keeps me engaged in conversations like this are really the bright spots in the work that I do. So for those of you that, again, that are watching and listening and thinking about entering the field, I hope that this is a help and was really motivating you to get involved and keep on this path, we’d love to see you. Whether it’s one of our programs, or any of the other great programs across our country and across the world that are doing this work like we need you, we are looking for that fresh, fresh blood fresh wind, into breathed life into our field and to the work and the lives of the people that we touched, because we’re nothing without the people that are in this work. So you can find me on LinkedIn, you can find my program on LinkedIn. And occasionally you can find me on what’s left of Twitter, at StaceyG_PhD. And also be email at Garrettsd@appstate.edu.

Heather Shea
Great, wonderful, thank you all I what you do for students as faculty really, truly matters. And I just want to extend my my gratitude for your time here today. And for your contributions to this conversation. I also want to just take a moment to send thanks to our incredible producer Nat Ambrosey. Nat your efforts don’t go unnoticed and we are so grateful for everything that you do for us. And of course, our podcast wouldn’t be possible without the support of our episode sponsor. Symplicity is the global leader in student services technology platforms with state of the art technology that empowers institutions to make data driven decisions specific to their goals. A true partner to the institution Symplicity supports all aspects of student life, including but not limited to Career Services and Development, Student Conduct and well being student success and accessibility services. And to learn more, you can visit symplicity.com or connect with them on Facebook. What was Twitter and LinkedIn. So to our listeners, if you are new to our podcast, we encourage you to listen to go to our website at Student Affairs now.com And you can click on our sponsors link, you can click on our archives link. Learn more about all of the episodes that we have hosted with this content. And if you’re tuning in today and not already subscribed to our newsletter, you can take a moment to enter your email on our website and you’ll stay in the loop with all of our latest updates and content. Again, I’m Heather Shea thanks to everyone who’s watching and listening. Let’s make this careers in student affairs month truly a great one. Thanks everybody.

Graduate programs represented on this episode:
Appalachian State University: https://highered.appstate.edu
Michigan State University: https://education.msu.edu/ead/hale/masters-student-affairs/
New England College: https://www.nec.edu/programs/higher-education-administration-m-s
Oregon State University: https://education.oregonstate.edu/adult-and-higher-education-edm