Jill E. Carnaghi
I think my only comments are that I’m incredibly grateful and thankful having been a part of the association, but even more so, those who have followed after me and kept the core values have put them into play, put them into practice, and very hopeful excited about what’s to come, and I know how challenging the next few months are going to be, but I give a lot of credit and am confident that our campuses will be safe places for growth and conversation. Thank you.

Heather Shea
Hello and welcome to Student Affairs NOW. I’m your co host Heather Shea, and I’m also joined today by co host, Gudrun Nyunt, who you will hear from in just a moment. Today, we have a special final episode for you featuring a large panel of ACPA presidents talking in more detail about the past, present and future of the association. This is the final installment in a 13 episode series in celebration of acpa’s 100th anniversary and a continued partnership between ACPA and this podcast, Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and online learning community for 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays, and you can find details about this episode or browse our archives at studentaffairsnow.com as I mentioned, today’s episode is sponsored by ACPA, an independent 501c3 nonprofit association sponsoring this special 13 episode series with Student Affairs NOW to celebrate its 100th anniversary of boldly transforming higher education. As I mentioned, I’m your co host, Heather, Shea. My pronouns are she her and hers, and I’m broadcasting from the ancestral, traditional and contemporary lands, the nishnaabeg three fires confederacy of Ojibwe Odawa and Potawatomi peoples, otherwise known as East Lansing, Michigan, home of Michigan State University where I work.

Jill E. Carnaghi
All right, hello, everyone. I’m your co host. Gudrun Nyunt. My pronouns are she and her, and I’m an associate professor and program coordinator of the Higher Education and Student Affairs Program at Northern Illinois University. I also have the honor to serve on the ACPA eight 100 core committee, and as ACPA vice president of membership. I’m joining you today from Northern Illinois University, which occupies the homeland of the Anishinaabe peoples, also known as the Council of the three fires. And so let’s get started with the conversation. Today. We have five wonderful guests here, Jill Carnaghi, who was our ACPA president, from 2000 to 2001, Paul Shang was our ACPA president from 2002 to 2003, Stephen John Quaye, ACPA president from 2017 to 2018 and our incoming past president, Rachel Aho, our current ACPA President, Jonathan McElderry, our current ACPA president elect and Heather you serving as our co host, but we should also mention that you served as president from 2023 through now, and are currently serving as past president. And so I shared a little bit about right, all of your history with ACPA, but please introduce yourself and share outside of ACPA what you’re doing for work, and so why don’t we start with you, Jill.

Jill E. Carnaghi
Hello. I’m Jill Carnaghi. I am more than happily retired and joint, enjoying it immensely. My preferred pronouns are she, her and hers. I’m joining you today from my home office in St Louis, Missouri, which occupies the homeland of Osage, Kaskaskia and Kickapoo tribes.

Jill E. Carnaghi
All right, thank you, Jill, and we’ll go and order off your ACPA presidencies. So Paul, you are up next.

Paul Shang
Well, my name is Paul Shang, and my pronouns are he, him his, and I’m joining you today from Eugene, Oregon. And this is the truth of traditional homeland of the city uslaw And Alsea tribes, and also the kalapuja people. I am happily retired, and I spend a lot of time doing volunteer work locally, and am a member of the Rotary Club, and also try to hit the gym as frequently as I can.

Jill E. Carnaghi
Awesome Stephen, you’re next.

Stephen John Quaye
Hi everyone. Stephen Quaye, he him his pronouns, and I am zooming in today from Columbus, Ohio, where I work at The Ohio State University, which is on the homeland of the Shawnee and Miami, Wyandotte and Delaware people. I also want to acknowledge, in addition to this land acknowledgement, the forced slavery of black people who built much of what we call the United States of America. I am not yet happily retired, though I hope to be in Paul and Jill shoes at some point down the road, but I am currently serving as an Associate Dean in the graduate school at Ohio State, and I’m responsible for advancing the recruitment, retention and mentorship of graduate students and postdocs at Ohio State. Happy to be here.

Jill E. Carnaghi
Wonderful. All right, Rachel,

Rachel Aho
Hi everyone. My name is Rachel Aho. I use sheher pronouns, and I am speaking to you today from the ancestral homelands of the ute, Paiute, goshute and Shoshone people, otherwise known as Salt Lake City, Utah, outside of my role in ACPA, I work as the Senior Director of Housing at the University of Utah, where I have the opportunity to oversee many of our operational areas in support about 6000 residential students as they apply and live with us on campus. Also just want to say a quick thank you to everyone who has been a part of this podcast series and who has helped to put this together. Really thrilled to be here today.

Jill E. Carnaghi
Thank you. And Jonathan.

Jonathan A. McElderry
Hi everybody. My name is Jonathan. I use he/him pronouns, and I serve as the Dean of Student inclusive excellence and an assistant professor at Elon University, which occupies the homeland of the occaneechi band of the saponi nation in Elon, North Carolina. And my role, I serve on the senior leadership team for both the Division of Student Life and also the division of inclusive excellence. Happy to be here.

Jill E. Carnaghi
All right, it’s so great to have all of you here. And so Jill, why don’t we start with you. What do you recollect about ACPA as an association in the years of your presidency, and how have you seen over the past 20 or plus years that you’ve been involved with the Association? The association change and grow.

Jill E. Carnaghi
You’re so polite. I’m older than dirt and have been involved in ACPA when I had dark hair right out of graduate school, and it was really loose, Stamatakis and many other great people at Michigan State that pointed me in a wonderful direction that I’ve been thrilled to be a part of. And as a young professional, before computers and everything else, to put together the newsletter for the commission and Residence Life, and then getting to know Charles Schroeder, Susan with these, just a lot of incredible individuals that were had leadership positions at the time at ACPA, so when it came time to run for president, I’m not that was not at the top of my fun list, but I really thought I had gotten so much from the Association and the profession. I really thought it was my turn to give back if I was elected, hoping that the person running against me, I would be happy to serve him. That’s not the way it turned out. So I took the reins with a help from a lot a lot of people. And at the time, ACPA was probably about 9000 strong. I would describe it, and this is where Paul, you can jump in. I would describe it as a very generalist association that captured a lot of young professionals right out. I mean, we thought we were hot shit and ran the world, so we ran the convention. And I think the big pieces when I think back to that time, well, then even when I saw 2000 to 2001 I thought, Oh, why 2k? Two, the world is coming to an end. It didn’t now. It may, this year come to an end, depending on the future, the next month or so. But I digress. And really, I think the focus the commissions, standing committees, state divisions, all of those intersected in various ways that you could find a home if you didn’t have the resources, and you lived in Ohio, you could connect with Ohio. If you were at a small school with not much resources, and you’re doing student activities and Residence Life, you could tie that together. And then if you are an individual of color, LGBT, a whole host of different identities. And probably even before intersectionality became a word and made an incredible amount of sense of how people identify, the standing committees were kind of the your niche. What I’ve seen then, over the 20 years that I still think ACPA is ground up, the people that are members shape the organization have shaped it incredibly well and have listened to the membership as well as their institutions and what’s happening in our country and internationally. So I think ACPA has grown in complication, inter interconnectedness. From what I observed on, I was fortunate enough to go to this last convention. As one of the old presidents that I think the focus on social justice has only gotten stronger and is only more critical today. I mean, it was always critical, but did we, the masses, recognize it? No, but I think now more than ever, ACPA has a critical to role to play, with focus on social justice, as well as providing new professionals, as well as from young to old, a place where personal and professional identities can be articulated, identify identified and a place where I’m not sure anybody feels totally comfortable ever, but it’s a safer place than a lot of other institutions, and I think that’s important for the student affairs professional to be clear with Who they are, so then, when they’re working with incredibly diverse populations, and I just just don’t mean ethnic or sexual orientation, but just the whole, I mean who we have coming to college that I think ACPA assist in. They provide kind of the continuing education once somebody gets out of a master’s or a doctorate or some other, some other educational piece of of how, I mean, I know I’m just antiquated and out of it, because I haven’t kept up with the literature in the terms technology and even how people think of themselves and of others, that’s a critical piece to to keep in mind and to move forward, and no matter the age, people have got to keep up with that if they’re going to serve themselves, their students, the Campus and the greater good, I will stop there.

Jill E. Carnaghi
Yeah, thank you, Jill. And I was actually lucky to join right during your presidency. That’s when I was in grad school and became an ACPA member. And so definitely, a lot of the things you said right resonated with me as someone who grew up in Europe and then came to the US as an international student, I found ACPA really great space to explore some of those identities, right? And really think critically about how do they shape me who I am and how I show up as a professional. So thank you for that, Paul. What would you like to add?

Paul Shang
Well, I totally agree with everything that Jill said, and they all can be scary. I know we’ve agreed a lot in the past, been disagreements too, but hey, you know it’s all fun. I think that for me, what what I really have observed about ACPA is, is that it’s continued in terms of its core values. They are revisited and and reshaped and discussed in different, more contemporary ways every time. But the the core values of ACPA have have been really very consistent, and I’ve appreciated that there’s the emphasis on diversity of all different kinds. There’s the opportunity for, I don’t know how to say this, but for newer professionals, younger professionals, to be involved and to discuss the experiences that they’re having and to share that and those get incorporated into the programming and and the views of the whole Association, something that I think is is really important. I want to just say it from the very beginning. I The last time I visited ACPA this past year, I found it to be an incredibly confident and well organized and very disciplined Association. Things went well. The programs were great. The presentations were excellent. The use of technology was quite impressive. So I as a past president, just very pleased. And in addition to the continued emphasis on scholarship, as well as providing high quality programs, I thought it was great for the expression of new ideas and for people to be able to get together and share what’s happening on their campuses. So I applaud the direction and the changes and everything that has happened in ACPA, and really find it to be a very confident, very high quality professional association.

Heather Shea
Thanks so much, Paul. I want to also just provide a tiny bit of context. Paul was my master’s advisor. Sir at Colorado State University, and I owe my involvement in ACPA to him. So if you haven’t watched my individual interview with Paul on on Student Affairs NOW you should definitely go back and do that. So thank you, Paul for inspiring all of us and the next generation of leaders. Jill, I’m gonna,

Paul Shang
I’m gonna, very kind.

Heather Shea
You’re welcome. Jill, I want to go back to you for just a moment, because I think one of the things that we have discussed, I think peripherally, but maybe not directly within this podcast series, is the relationship that ACPA has with other associations, and particularly with NASPA. And I know you were the co chair of both joint conventions, the 97 is that correct? 97 and the 2007 joint convention, or the last two, I guess. And I’d love to hear your thoughts about not only the amazing amount of work it is to plan a joint convention, convention of two massive associations for the whole field, but also about the importance of that ongoing relationship and kind of as we’re moving forward, any thoughts you’d like to share?

Jill E. Carnaghi
Probably not. No, I I love being involved in a convention or annual meeting or conference, because I was on one of NASPA’s conferences, and then ACPA calls them conventions. Then we said, Okay, what the heck do we call this thing? And so we called it an annual meeting, which made no sense, because it happened every it was 8797 and 2007 but we made it up. And in all sincerity, they were. I loved both being on both joint conventions, and we really tried to streamline it so we didn’t have a cast of 1000s doing the planning. But then each of those individuals that were on the committee had their own committees, you know, from transportation to educational programs to ancillary programs to finding more busses. I mean, it was Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, but you really, it was a great coming together of both NASPA and ACPA to say, what kind of curriculum do we want to establish for an annual meeting of people coming together, and because of the quantity that some people hated and other people loved, and then some campuses were small. We could only release so many people, but the quality of speakers, we got to talk about different things. I mean, in 97 to have Andrew Young, William Sloan coffin, Marion Wright, Edelman, and I think his name was John McLaughlin, the Claremont schools, to have them have a conversation. And they all knew Marty well. I’m thinking, Who the hell’s Marty? Martin Luther King, Jr. They were peers and colleagues and how. I mean, it was just like a window in to their world that they saw as, this is what we do, and this is how we do it. And there actually is a video somewhere of that conversation, and it was just incredible. And then in oh seven, we brought Al Gore, and at the time, I even forget what is video. I mean, everybody was watching it.

Heather Shea
but Inconvenient Truth, yeah,

Jill E. Carnaghi
that’s it. Yeah, they’re both. But even then, just the programs and the coming together, and you know what came out of it, and the professional competencies, and there can always be finger pointing with all kinds of professional associations, but I think the importance of really valuing each of those professional associations and what they bring to the greater good of higher education and how we can learn from each other. But I mean, and I always called going to ACPA or NASPA or ACUHO-I, it was kind of my professional vacation. Because, yes, I may, I had enough guilt that I went to all the programs because I couldn’t just make it a total vacation, but then the colleagues I met and that I continued I might have worked with like a Larry Roper at one time at UC Davis, but then how that relationship continued over time, and the importance of seeing people even Once a year to grab coffee, a drink, a meal, to sit by them at programs and to talk, you know. And I think that’s what was so tough when covid hit, and you guys all look great on these little boxes, but it’s not the same as the informal conversations. Or, Oh, you’ve got a kid that’s doing this. Or. You’ve got a staff member, so, I mean, NASPA, ACPA, even the National Association of Women deans, all those were important pieces that when you lose one, it’s just like some of these institutions that are small, tuition driven, that are now closing, what we’re losing in the greater gestalt of higher ed i don’t think we’re going to realize for some time. So how does ACPA keep NASPA and other professional associations that improve their their experiences of professional but also increase the experiences of students for the better. And in a time of this kind of polarization in higher ed, we can’t afford to do what we’re watching everybody else do. It’s just, it’s too critical.

Jill E. Carnaghi
Yeah, definitely. And so each President right makes an impact on the association during the time as president. What is one notable moment that stands out to you during your presidency? Stephen, why don’t we start with you this time?

Stephen John Quaye
Yeah, sure. So I mean, public comment is no surprise for those who know me, that the thing I’m likely going to talk about is the strategic imperative for racial justice and decolonization. So this came about when I was present, is probably one of the things I’m that I feel most proud about in regards to ACPA. So just for some for some context, you know, when Paul was talking earlier, one of the things that Paul said was that this is an association that really tries to live our core values. And so we were in a context where we kept hearing feedback from many of our colleagues of color that they were just exhausted from continued police violence, from continuing racism and so much to Paul’s point, rather than just sort of hearing this and doing nothing about it, we decided to center attention towards racial justice and decolonization throughout the association. And this didn’t come with with without challenges, right? And so one of the things I kept hearing feedback from and from many of many folks who had been in the Association for a while, many of whom were presidents as well. Was they were worried about this shift in our in our in our focus around, are we going to lose members by really centering racial justice in this way? Right? And so I think anytime you choose to center something or do something different, especially when it pertains to issues of race, you run the risk of folks feeling afraid, folks feeling like they maybe don’t understand, or worried about what this is going to mean. What does it mean to think about our privilege, our racial privilege, right? And so we received lots of pushback around sort of these, around those pieces. So I think it’s interesting because at the time when I was president, so Donna Lee was past president, and Jamie Washington was vice president, the reason it’s important for me to mention them as well is because it was the first time in ACPAs history that the presidential trio was three black people. And so I was really worried that once the three of us left and rolled off our positions, that this is something that was just going to die with the three of us, right? It was just it was only going to live on when the three of us were in these roles. And so one of the most surprising but also powerful pieces is, I think, when, when many folks who are just now entering ACPA think of the imperative, it seems like it’s something that has always been there, right? And so that, to me, is actually really powerful, because it didn’t just end with the three of us, right? It actually has continued. And that’s something that I think ties back to Paul’s point. Around again, around when something is core to your identity, core to your association, it lives on irrespective of who’s in those roles. Yes, you still have to focus on it, because I think it’s very easy to to not devote attention to it, but it should still continue if it is one of your core values, because it’s not just an espouse value, but it’s also how you enact the value. So that’s one piece that I wanted to say around it. The other piece I’ll say is, so this is me also just practicing one of my core values, which is vulnerability. When I was president and we wrote out this imperative, I was really frustrated with the number of folks who kept saying, what do we what do we do? Like, racial justice, like, what does that mean? Like, what does that look like in practice? And my mantra was, just figure it out. Do something right? And so I kept getting frustrated with that sort of like. Like, tell me what to do, mentality and racial justice, decolonization, there’s no top 10 list, and so rather than continue to get frustrated, one of the other pieces that I that I thought was really powerful, was the ACPA foundation providing us financial support for us to actually host a writing retreat for me, to bring folks together, one of whom is Rachel in the space today bring folks together to actually operationalize and concretize what this looked like in practice. And so the other piece that I think is really powerful about ECP, and I’ll make the tie here, is our scholarship. And so, you know, we have the journal college student development. We have about campus at bold vision forward, which is another sort of piece. You know, during Dre’s presidency, Dre domains presidency, they also created that this, this report on, on like just where folks are around burnout in our association among staff, right, as we see lots of folks leaving Student Affairs, the Student Affairs profession. So I see all of this to say that ACPA has always been on the forefront of putting what we value into words, into action, into our scholarship, and this is another example of it. And so to me, like that helped folks think about how to put those values around racial justice, around decolonization, into practice. And I’m happy that this continues to move forward throughout the association. So then the last piece out, I’ll say, I’ll say here, is that one of the sort of pieces in this framework of bold vision forward that I that I really want to point out, because it ties directly to some of the things that Jill has talked about today, is this notion of paying attention to our history. So what I’ve really appreciated from your comments so far, Jill, is you’ve had you’ve just reminded us around the seminal historic pieces of the association when we think about the formulation of our commissions or coalitions, when we think about, you know, the pieces of scholarship that we continue to live forward, when we think about pieces like learning reconsidered, right? So to me, I think when we don’t pay attention to our history, you know, the saying goes, We’re doomed to repeat it, right? And so one of the things that I think this, that one of the reasons that we wanted to center history in this document of bold vision forward, was to remind folks that we can’t just let go of the past, right? We have to remember the past plays a role in the future, and when it comes to racial justice and decolonization, like let’s think back to how we started this podcast. We all named the lands from which we were zooming in, right? Because it’s a reminder of the historic nature of how our places were founded, right on native lands, right that we continue to not center native and indigenous peoples. And so this is an effort to do that because it’s tied to our history. So for me, I think this imperative was one of the most seminal pieces during my presidency. And again, I’m happy that it lives on beyond the black presidential trio of donna, donna, Jamie and I. So that, to me, is, like, really heartening, because it illustrates, again, to Paul’s point, the core values of ACPA that continue to get reinforced throughout throughout future presidencies.

Jill E. Carnaghi
Yeah, thank you, Stephen, Paul and Jill. Do you have anything you’d like to add? Either one of you

Jill E. Carnaghi
take it away. Paul

Paul Shang
Well, I just would want to add or follow up, if I could, on Stephen’s comments. It’s, it’s important to the association. Revisit these values, these core values, and I think it’s important to have this discussion, and it it’s important to cause this, this kind of creative disquiet, if you will, because it this is how you move forward on things and how you reinforce what it is that the organization believes in. I meant to write to Stephen when, when he was experiencing the concerns that people were raising, because when we talked about affirmative action years ago in the association, we had very similar kinds of concerns. Why did we actually have stated quotas? I mean, and this was back in the affirmative action days when people were arguing about, well, if there shouldn’t be quotas, there should just be good intentions. No, we didn’t. We didn’t do that. We put down in our affirmative action statement that there were going to be quotas of people of color, LGBTQ people and. And this is what we were going to aspire to, and if we’d already achieved them as an association, that’s cool, but we always wanted to have this, this notion that we were going to be a diverse association. So Harold Cheetham was the President when I wrote or proposed the affirmative action statement that was called, then people get ready, because there’s a trainer coming. Remember that, that great song, and we had official quotas, and there were all kinds of concerning comments, if you will. But that’s the kind of association we are. We put our beliefs right there on the table, and everybody can see them. And I’m very proud of that as as I’m a member of of ACPA.

Jill E. Carnaghi
which when Paul, when you mentioned Harold Cheetham’s name, I remember being, I think I was graduate student member at large. I mean, I don’t know, we had a lot of long titles for this exec Council, and I remember just sitting there as my head’s like pivoting around with Peggy Barr and everybody else. But I remember, I mean, there were some contentious conversations for Bob Brown to lobby and push to get the name of the journal changed to college student development. That was no easy task that was met with uproar that passed. And then another contentious where I wanted to crawl in a hole is when Harold Cheatham, who is the most quiet, quiet, mild mannered person in the world was pretty much outraged, because he said he had to have been some Member at Large of something. But he said, no black man will ever be president of ACPA, you know, and for him to believe that, and then for him to aspire to it, and then me working with Greg Roberts, I mean, it’s just amazing how we’ve I mean, I think Stephen and Paul back to the core values, how we stayed with it. And there was a time when Charles Schroeder and Linda Clements to really, I felt like ACPA was part of an admissions office about, how did we recruit new members, and how did we really go after diverse members and to really grow the pie, not only in numbers, but diversity? And there was a time, I mean, during my presidency, thank heavens, the Boston Convention made money because we needed just a at the time, it wasn’t simple at all, but a way to record membership and to keep it up to date, and not just, you know, have it in somebody’s drawer, but just the technology and what kind of software program we needed. And if Peter Brown left the national office, I don’t think we even called it international office at the time, we’d all be screwed, because it’s like, how do we manage this? So, I mean, some of those basic needs to take care of in a somewhat timely manner, I think we’re pretty slow at times. But then to put that so there could be conversations about racial justice and moving the scholarship forward in some of those diverse areas that we’re not getting attention. Yeah.

Jill E. Carnaghi
And so we’ve talked a lot about, like, kind of the past presidents. And so Heather, I’m going to ask you to switch from co host to panelist for a second. Your presidency just ended. What was a notable moment during your presidency for you?

Heather Shea
Yeah? Well, as I’m listening to Jill and Paul talk about the history, I think the significance of having the opportunity to serve as the president while we’re celebrating our 100th anniversary. And I should also note, the planning for the events of the year began well before my presidency, both my predecessor, Dre domain, as well as Daniel Morgan Acosta were kind of in the beginning of that. So what resulted in, you know, what is a year long celebration wrapping up, you know, right, as this episode is about to drop, was really incredible. And I think it goes back to what, what Paul and Jill were talking about, is who we are as an association is really grounded in how our association came to be, which, for those who don’t know the whole history, there’s there’s documents, and you know lots of things that you can review. Maybe we’ll link that in the show notes. But nine women gathered in Chicago back in 1924 at the invitation of another Association, the National Association of the deans of women, and came together and formed ACPA, what would be the predecessor to ACPA, because they wanted to carve out a space for themselves in this. Larger field, and they weren’t welcome into other associations at the time. And I think that that growth and significance of our founding story is that we have been since 1924 boldly transforming higher education. And it was really, really incredible to return to Chicago in 2024 100 years later. And you know, recognize the the ways in which our association has changed and grown. But also, you know, remains the association where people can come together, learn, you know, receive incredible professional development, but also be challenged to really think differently and boldly transforming higher ed, I think, is the appropriate tagline for ACPA. So that would be the moment that stands out to me. And I could probably go on and on about how incredible that Chicago convention was.

Jill E. Carnaghi
So yeah, thank you Heather. And then Rachel, you followed Heather as the next president, currently serving as president. What are some things that stand out for you so far, or hopes that you have for this year?

Speaker 1
Yeah, I think you know to build up of what has been shared already. One of the things that I’ve noticed, throughout my presidency is the importance of continuing to listen to our members and not being afraid to adjust, to change and to build into our structures what we need for this moment in time. So right, Jill mentioned the Executive Council that then trans, you know, transformed at one point into our governing board. And then one of the things that I’ve been able to work on during my presidency is actually transitioning our governance model again into our Leadership Council, which was really done again, I think because we were hearing a desire for more expanded leadership pathways, a desire to create structures that reflected our priorities. So, for example, our racial justice strategies chair, our decolonization chair, our universal design. Chair, right, actually building into our leadership and governance model those priorities so that they do live on. Like Stephen was saying, we want those things to live on, and that’s a way that we’ve been able to demonstrate that commitment, and so that’s one of my hopes, is that we continue listening to our members, that we continue taking risks in order to continue living out our values in what we’re doing. And I think Paul named that too, right, that that shifts moment to sort of moment, moments over time, moments over history. And so I look forward to ACPA continuing to do that in the future.

Jill E. Carnaghi
Yeah. Thank you. And then Jonathan, you’re going to be stepping into the president role soon. What are some of your hopes for for your presidency year?

Jonathan A. McElderry
So I would say some of my hopes is really setting the association up to step into the next century of our legacy. As Rachel mentioned, we are in the process of our new governance structure, and so it’ll be fully implemented once we get to Long Beach. And so doing some assessment on that, trying to meet the needs of our members, to make sure it’s doing what they needed to do. I think additionally, as we come to the conclusion of our strategic plan, we’re already in the works of preparing the next strategic plan, and so working with you many of our VPS on what that looks like for the next iteration of the association, and then continuing to meet the needs of our members. As we know, higher education is in a very interesting time as an association, but also on all of our campuses. And so how can we continue to support and meet the needs for our members as we continue to lay the foundation for the early steps of our next journey.

Heather Shea
Thanks so much, Jonathan, so I want to pick up on that thing that you just mentioned right, that the field is changing. You know, the landscape in which we do this work is definitely changing. And Rachel, I’m curious if you, as you’re planning your presidential symposium and you’re planning your convention, talk a little bit about how you see ACPA influencing the field, and you know, maybe what you anticipate over the next several months as we enter the Presidential, you know, our national election in the United States and other other areas in which I think higher education is definitely influenced by but also influences the larger context.

Speaker 1
Yeah, thanks, Heather. And I’m, I’m glad you mentioned the Presidential some. Propos, I think that is a wonderful tradition that I’ll actually say Stephen helped to create in partnership with ash, and so that’s another great example of how partnerships help us sort of advance our work and also come together to improve our thinking and bring together collaborative voices for the betterment of our profession. As part of this year’s symposium, we’re going to be talking about how we can prepare to meet this moment on our campuses. I think a lot of us are nervous about what the next few months will look like on our campuses and across higher education, and so we’ll be talking about things like anti DEI legislation, student activism, free speech and career sustainability, because we know that as professionals are, you know, tackling and wrestling with all of these issues and preparing to help support our students through this time that that’s tough work. And so how do we continue thinking about the well being of of our staff, and that’s something that we’ll be centering at our convention in Long Beach too. Is this idea of taking a breath and beginning again this work as we head into our next century of work. And so I’m very excited about that. I hope many of you join us for that symposium, or have a chance to watch the many panels that we’ll have. We have a great set of panelists there, and I hope that you’ve seen over time, ACPA contribute in meaningful ways to these conversations that we’re having on our campuses. You know, as I think about the contributions of ACPA in shaping the field over I think my now 17 years of involvement in ACPA, I was thinking about, you know, our professional competencies. I was thinking about the curricular approach, which, you know, impacts my work in housing in many ways. I was thinking about racial justice and decolonization. I was thinking about how we support our next generation of student affairs professionals on our campus and how nextgen has influenced how I then go back to my campus and mentor and bring forward new professionals. And so what I love about ACPA is that I think the ways in which we gather and model through our events and our programming, set an example for what our professionals then bring back and do on our campuses. And so when I see, you know, our staff, or my colleagues, come back to my campus, I see them talking about, hey, how do we do gender inclusive bathrooms? Hey, how do we set up staff affinity groups? You know, how do we do more than just offer a land acknowledgement, we have one but, but can we do more with that on our campus? And I think that is part of how ACPA shapes the field, is that folks come back, they learn they’re challenged, and they’re thinking critically and thinking differently about how they can, can improve their practice or improve their scholarship. So those are, those are a few of the examples that came to mind.

Paul Shang
I just want to interject. Since Rachel spoke so well about shaping the field, it gives me the opportunity to say that, well, you know, Student Affairs, the field of student affairs is growing, and there are many, many people, many professionals, who are in student affairs that don’t even know they’re in student affairs. So I think as an association, that’s something else that would be important for us to do just just as when we went ahead and expanded and acknowledged the role that people play in community colleges. We should talk about, we should talk about our colleagues in academic advising. We should talk to our colleagues that do orientation. We should do talk to our colleagues who are in career development and job placement. This is all student affairs work, and we need to promote the notion that we all have things in common. We all have challenges in common. We should work together and share all of our experiences in the various ways that we serve students, people who work in athletics, very, very important area that oftentimes do not really think of themselves as being in student affairs. These are all fields that we need to embrace and and create opportunities to have conversations.

Heather Shea
Agree. Agree, agreed.

Heather Shea
Anyone else have something they’d like to add to how you’ve seen ACPA influence the field.

Jonathan A. McElderry
The only thing I would add, I would say that since the community that people have mentioned throughout this podcast, as somebody who was not only a first generation college student, but a first generation PhD. Um, I would not have pursued a doctorate if it wasn’t for my involvement in ACPA and seeing people that came before me who were either on the journey or had completed the journey. And so when I think back about my experience, so many people that were just kind of in my generation of ACPA, many of us our first year doctoral, doctorates, our whole doctorate. And so the community that we have with each other to support each other through that process, to push each other when many of us, at times, maybe wanted to give up or didn’t think that we could do it, I think that that is been a major contribution to the field, and producing a lot of scholars of color, scholars from marginalized identities, and they have taken the work to not only advance ACPA, but their own institutions and just higher education as a whole.

Jill E. Carnaghi
Yeah, definitely. And so by the time this episode is out, the next president elect will be announced. What advice would you give this individual as to navigate the future? Jonathan, why don’t we start with you, since you’ll be working with that person very closely.

Jonathan A. McElderry
So the quote that I thought about actually came from Harold Cheatham this past year at the ACPA Convention, and the advice that he gave me was just steer. He’s like, just steer the boat. Got this? And I think it probably it was an impactful comment, but I think hearing Jill mention the conversations back in the day of Harold, not thinking that a black male could be president of this association, and knowing from myself that I can look to him, to Stephen, to Jamie, to Vernon, like I have so many examples that have come before me that at one point was not a possibility. And so I would say, just steer but also just enjoy the moment. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity, and it’s an experience. And so it is full of challenging work and lots of work, but enjoy it. It only happens once, and so this year,

Jill E. Carnaghi
yeah, thank you. Anyone else would like to add any advice for for the next and future presidents of our association?

Jill E. Carnaghi
I think the thing that struck me that I think it was Paul you said about how student affairs is growing or and when I was like, no, if anything, I think it’s shrinking or being wrapped up in all different weird places and ways. But when I really thought about it, it is growing. But how does ACPA get in with those individuals that don’t see them selves as Student Affairs, but they’re clearly student facing but they may be in the engineering school. I mean, no, I initially, I’m like, What’s he talking about? And then I agree with it. But how do you go after when? I mean, it’s good news, bad news. We’re not in the silos that we used to be in. But how do we get the commonality and the knowledge that ACPA, ACPA has and has generated about scholarship and with students to not in a condescending or parental way, but to get these different one offs in different in large institutions that are buried in different schools or departments. I mean, I think that’ll be a new a new challenge that I haven’t even thought about to wrap my head around, but that there could be way more people out there that could benefit by the expertise, scholarship, knowledge skills that members of ACPA have and just take as this is the way I operate, and others that’s never crossed their mind. They live in a more rational world than I think I did in student affairs dealing with chaos, but it was just the norm. You know, of course, a student’s going to do that. Why would you think they wouldn’t? Because they only see them for 90 minutes or whatever. But it’s like, no, they’re not the same person at midnight as they were at noon in your class. Get a life?

Paul Shang
Yeah? Well, unfortunately, if you’re, if you’re a dean of students, the students that you see are probably the students that they’re, they’re only 1% or point 5% of the student body. Everybody else is out there having a great time and doing good things, but the students that you interact with most of. Time, or our students that you know are kind of having difficulties, having challenges. But to get back to your comment joy, we did have joint conventions with other professional associations, yeah, like the one in Las Vegas that we did with the group that is does things with rec centers and rec students and people who are in rec centers, you know, that’s a group of people who are student affairs professionals. They don’t see themselves that way, but that’s a way to get the conversation going and to share with both all the attendees, what’s going on in various parts of the profession. So that’s something to do. I think that, you know, reaching out to Nakata. There still is a Nakata or a Noda, the National orientation Directors Association, or whoever is the Academic Advising Association these days, you know, and trying to get some conversations going, and joint publications, perhaps or or even conventions, are ways to broaden the knowledge that we all have about what’s happening with people serving students

Jill E. Carnaghi
well. And this is a total tangent, and you can edit it out, since that’s an option, but I just

Paul Shang
was into my comments too, so

Jill E. Carnaghi
I just, I just listened to a podcast yesterday that the author was talking about phone based childhood and play based childhood. And then, of course, I’m at a restaurant last night, and I’m watching this little kid that could hardly hold the iPhone, and these kids had pads that they’re all in their own world. And how does a phone based childhood versus playing and interacting with others? How is that going to flow through to college? And how are they going to have, you know, resolve fights, discrepancies, play together, talk together. I mean, ACPA, the next president, higher ed, what? What kind of students are we going to have? And even I don’t think we’ll figure out what covid did to that group, to any of us, but to that group of students that missed you know, the junior prom, a senior commencement, a freshman orientation, and how does ACPA think about the different learning styles, attention spans that are going to pass through the doors in the next so many years. I’d

Paul Shang
also like to add that that I’m very concerned about something that Jill touched on, and that is how to get people involved and interested in continuing higher education. The the enrollment trends do not look good. We are down in terms of interest in higher education and at the community colleges and in four area institutions and and there’s a lack of trust, a lack of interest in higher education now in this country. And that’s something that I think we need to really be seriously concerned about, because that is fundamental to our democracy. You have to have a well educated voting people out there in order to to run an effective democracy. So I think this is something that that is also I don’t want us all to get involved in enrollment management now, but we need to start talking about encouraging people to continue to think about higher education as a good

Heather Shea
I think we could continue this conversation for four hours. And I know a couple of you had a comment that you wanted to add, so please put that in your final comments if you’d like. As we always end every episode this, this podcast is called Student Affairs NOW, I’d love to hear what each of you are thinking about, troubling or pondering now. And Rachel, I’m going to start with you.

Speaker 1
Thanks. And yeah to that. To our next ACPA president, just want to say we’re we’re excited for your leadership. Folks are going to be cheering for your success. So you’re going to be offering something to ACPA that no one else can based on your unique skill sets and your vision and your strengths. So we’re excited for you, and we’re here for you. In terms of what I’ve been pondering, it’s actually kind of fortuitous, Paul and Jill, what you’ve been talking about, about casting a broader net to think about who makes up Student Affairs is something that. Has been on my mind and is really close to my own practice, so I oversee, again, a lot of operational areas within my work. And so many of the professionals that I supervise or that make up my unit do not have traditional student affairs backgrounds. They work in it, data, intelligence, marketing, event services, facilities, accounting, human resources, and yet, I think ACPA has a lot to offer them, and I want to find ways for them to feel connected and welcome within our association. So that’s something that that I continue to ponder. I’m glad that that’s on the minds of other folks. I think if we can bring those folks in, bring higher ed adjacent folks in, we can enliven our conversations in ACPA and continue to improve the work that we do for students. Thank you so

Heather Shea
much. Rachel, Jonathan, what’s your What are your final thoughts.

Jonathan A. McElderry
I would say, kind of building off what was stated earlier, thinking about our next generation of students. I think a lot about our next generation of higher ed professionals. And so, you know, we talk a lot about the students, but these are the folks who are coming into these new graduate student roles, or new professionals role. So how are we adjusting, how we have become accustomed to navigating Student Affairs in Higher Ed and adjusted to meet the needs of new professionals, and I think a lot of that, as Stephen mentioned earlier, through the 21st century report, really highlighted ways that we need to kind of rethink how we do student affairs so that it is sustainable For the next generation.

Heather Shea
Yeah, well, said, that’s great, Stephen to you.

Stephen John Quaye
Yeah, I think the thing that I would, I would add, is, I think a lot about the role that associations like ACPA plays in our social climate. So, you know, as we enter the US presidential election, I think a lot about across many of our campuses in the spring semester, you know, we likely saw lots of protests students building encampments on campus. And so I’ve actually been quite dismayed by the the ways in which our institutional leaders are responding to student activism and student protests, as somebody who thinks a lot about student activism, studies student activism, we keep doing the same thing across our campuses and sending police and expecting a different result. And so I say that because I think that’s, that’s what’s troubling me right now, is I think about what role does ACPA play in that? You know, when I was president, we had lots of conversations around to what extent do we make statements as an association? When do you not make a statement? If you make a statement, then you inevitably miss something. So should you not make any statements? Right? Should you distance yourself? And so these are our questions that I think our associations have things to say about it, and when we don’t engage, I think we leave a lot of our newer members feeling isolated and feeling like we don’t care about what’s happening in our world. And so these are there are no easy answers to these questions, but there are things that I think associations have can can be part of. So I’m actually really excited about the ACPA ash presidential symposium that’s coming up, because I think these are the kinds of questions that I hear a lot of students in our programs and our campuses that are grappling with and are wondering, to what extent does ACPA show up when it comes to campus protests, and what does our association have to Say? Who is the association when it comes to these issues, right? So these are questions that I’m wondering about, because I hear other folks and students in particular, students with minoritized identities in particular, really wrestling and wondering about these questions.

Heather Shea
Yeah, thank you for naming that. Stephen. Paul. Your final thoughts?

Paul Shang
Well, I to any of the newer presidents and presidents to be I urge them to have fun. It’s a great role to be in ACPA is a wonderful Association, and I am very pleased that it’s a very confident Association, at least in my recent experience. And I like that. I like the fact that, and you know, the conversation about direction and our relationships with other associations have been settled to a certain extent, and I’m pleased with that. So I think that it’s a great time for the association to move ahead and go forward and be the association that it wants to be. Listen to the participants, listen to the people who make up the association, and take. Keep that association in those directions that serves students and serves all of our professionals that are part of the association. I guess, the last thing that I would say about the situation and with regard to higher education is that again, you know, it’s, it’s a difficult time, and I think, contrary to what might be happening these days, because I know people working on campuses are extraordinarily busy, but it’s really, really important, I think, for student affairs professionals to be out there talking with students and meeting with them and going to the different kinds of activities that they have and to be present. And I keep hearing about how contentious students are these days. Well, fine, let’s go out and contend with them, you know, and talk to them about their perspectives and how there might be other ways of looking at things, because everybody is doing that with students, and I think it’s very important for student affairs professionals to be doing it as much, if not more so than everybody else.

Heather Shea
Thank you, Paul Jill, you get the final word today.

Jill E. Carnaghi
I think my only comments are that I’m incredibly grateful and thankful having been a part of the association, but even more so, those who have followed after me and kept the core values have put them into play, put them into practice, and very hopeful excited about what’s to come, and I know how challenging the next few months are going to be, but I give a lot of credit and am confident that our campuses will be safe places for growth and conversation.

Jill E. Carnaghi
All right. Well, thank you all. This has been a wonderful conversation, and it’s just been such a joy to hear from all of you and your perspectives about the past, present and future of our association. So Heather, I’ll turn it back to you.

Heather Shea
Yes thank you all. Thank you though to our sponsor of today’s episode, ACPA. I’m going to tell you a little bit about this association that we’ve been discussing today. ACPA, college student educators International, celebrating its 100th anniversary, is boldly transforming higher education by creating and sharing influential scholarship, shaping Critically Reflective practice and advocating for equitable and inclusive learning environments. ACPA aspires to be higher education and student affairs most inclusive and community driven Association by leading our profession in centering social justice, racial justice and decolonization as defining concept of our time and the foreseeable future ACPA, it’s annual convention, as we’ve mentioned a couple of times. Is in February this year, February 16 through 19th, 2025 in Long Beach, California. You can visit my acpa.org or connect with ACPA on Instagram, Facebook and x to learn more about the association. Huge shout out to our producer, Natalie Ambrosey, who does all of the behind the scenes work to make us look and sound good. And we love the support from these important conversations from our community. So if you can help us reach even more folks by subscribing to our podcast. Wherever you listen to podcasts, go into our YouTube channel and also subscribing to our weekly newsletter, which we announce every week on Wednesdays, what our latest episode is. And if you are so inclined, you can also leave us a five star review. I am Heather Shea with Gudrun Nyundt. Thanks again to our amazing guest today to everyone who’s watching and listening. Thank Thank you. Take care of yourselves. Be kind and spread joy.

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