Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Hello and welcome to student affairs. Now, my name is Glenn DeGuzman. I use he him, his pronouns, and I’m coming to you from Livermore, California, the ancestral homelands of the Ohlone people. In today’s episode. We’re going to be exploring technological shifts and innovative practices in higher education. And I’m really excited to be joined by a panel of administrators and influencers to talk story on technology, its integration into student affairs and how our profession is understanding and pushing the envelope, during this age of digital transformation. Student affairs now is the premier podcast and learning community for thousands of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. Our mission is to have our conversation, make a contribution to the field of student affairs and is restorative to our profession. We release new episodes every Wednesday, and you can find us@studentaffairsnow.com.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
We’re also on Twitter and Instagram and I’m super excited to announce Stylus Publishing is to be, is now a proud sponsor of student first, now podcast. So please browsers, student affairs and diversity and profession development titles at styluspub.com. And you can use a promo code SANOW for 30% off all books and you get free shipping and you can find them on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter @Styluspub. So let’s get started and get to know our panel. And I’m going to start by asking them, and let’s talk some story here to introduce themselves shared a little bit about their professional role, what they do between eight and 5:00 PM or maybe eight and 8:00 PM. And what you’d like to share about your work and interest in general, that’s tied to today’s topic. So let me go ahead and start. And Joe, you want to kick us off?

Joe Sabado:
Yes. Hello everyone. My name is Joe Sabado. I am I go by, he, him, his, my I’m the Associate CIO for Student Affairs at UC Santa Barbara. I oversee a team of about 65 folks and we under my portfolio are still information systems, electronic medical record systems graduate education kind of systems. So about 180, 180 applications. Our mission is to empower student success and enhance transform student experience. And really that’s my role. I mean, the technology role is just one piece of what I do ultimately, my role at the university is to help students succeed. And so in addition to my role as Associate CIO, I’m also a first-generation mentor through, and, you know, for folks that are wanting to go into student affairs through the NASPA undergraduate fellowship program, some folks in, some students at the university call me Tito Joe or Uncle Joe, and that’s become the role that I’ve embraced, especially with, especially with the Filipino-American students. And so, you know, I’ve been in student affairs in IT since 1996, and I’ve always believed in the idea of, of, you know, being a possibly model and being someone who can help students succeed. And I’ve done that through technology and more than ever, I think, especially in the, in the, in this age of COVID, you know, I’ve seen the impact of technology in terms of safety in terms of student success and then enhancing student experience.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Thanks, Joe. Let’s go to Sarah.

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
Yeah, well, hi everybody. I’m Sarah Gretter. I go by she, her hers. I am the Associate Director at the Hub for Innovation, Learning and Technology at Michigan State University. I don’t have the nice California weather, but it’s still nice enough, but I’m thrilled to be part of this conversation today. So thank you for inviting me. So the Hub is kind of an internal design consultancy unit at Michigan State University. Typically it means that our group helps campus partners design learning experiences that align student success with the needs of our 21st century. So for instance, it means incubating new experiential courses. We’ve done wildlife conservation for instance, taught by interdisciplinary teams of instructors. It means helping faculty lead math reform on campus or building science gallery exhibitions at the intersection of sciences and art, but really in the past few months, working at the Hub has meant supporting faculty and units on campus, rethink teaching, learning, and working in online and hybrid models.

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
So we’re putting together workshops around educational technologies for professional development on campus, but also helping different units, including our student affairs units. Thinking about design strategy for events like new faculty orientation, fall welcome, in order to provide students with learning experiences that are adapting to the current situation. We are interested at the hub particularly in access and use of technology issues for students, of course, for faculty and staff as well. But the sudden move to remote teaching and learning a few months ago has opened our eyes even more to systemic discrimination that we have in education, health and justice systems in the U S in general. And we’ve had to acknowledge that our educational practices carry both privilege and oppression, and it is becoming increasingly critical for us and for all of us on all different campuses in the U S to ensure that equity and social justice are really core elements of how we design experiences for others, especially in a moment in history, really where the digital divide is at the forefront of everything that we do.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you, Sarah. Looking forward to you on this panel. And to our final panelist, Kristen,

Kristen Abell:
Hey everybody, I’m Kristin Abell. I use she, her hers. I’m the Interim Director for Communications for Student Affairs at Virginia Tech University. And I have a history in student affairs, I’ve been a housing director. I’ve worked in women’s centers and I’ve worked in academic advising as well. And so I’ve kind of been all around the house and have gotten a chance to, to work on technology in each of those areas. I actually transitioned over to communications from housing several years ago, which was a weird leap for a lot of people to see me make. But it was a chance for me to kind of indulge my geek side as I like to think of it, where I learned web development and became a web developer at that time. And so it’s really been useful in communications to have all of that student affairs background. And I also do a side project. This is not in my eight to five but it is influenced by my eight to five, which is the Committed Project. It’s a mental health resource for higher education professionals. So that’s my unpaid side hustle is what I like to call it.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Unpaid side hustles are wonderful. So definitely looking forward to your contributions as well in this panel. So let’s start with understanding the higher education landscape when it comes to technology integration. Joe, you know, as the Associate CIO of Student Affairs, can you share how our campuses engaging in technological shifts, particularly in student affairs and what, what is shifting and why is understanding this change important?

Joe Sabado:
Sure. You know, and that’s a very complex question that you ask, Glenn, because certainly COVID is the most prominent, a reality that we have today. And so our operations, within the context of COVID-19 the way I look at it, you know, we can look at COVID-19 as it is, but I want to look at the bigger history of, of technology, student affairs and how digital transformation fits into that. So the way I look at it COVID-19 is more of a business continuity program in business and disaster recovery. I think more than it’s not, it’s not normal for, for many institutions as a matter of fact, if, beginning, I think in the March or even up to now, if you’re to say we’re doing online education, I think faculty would resist that term because there’s, there’s, this education means as a pedagogical, you know, context of designed to that there’s preparation, really, it was more remote instruction. And I think we have to identify it as that, and it’s not the normal, you know, for, especially for residential you know, institutions going from that on premise learning, teaching, and then residential housing although down to hybridize and online, that’s the norm, that’s not the norm. So I think, you know, for those who have invested resiliency, the infrastructure, having a culture of the possibility of a hybridized online education, I think those institutions are probably in a better situation than those who resisted that, that reality of the potential reality. So there’s a term that’s come up recently. I think the last couple of years through EDUCAUSE called digital transformation. And so in the, depending on the, or there’s, you know, a thousand institutions across the United States. And so I think some institutions are engaging in digital transformation at different levels. So this is transformation in the end of it all, is this cultural, political and a social shift in an institution, but it’s like a step function, right? So what we’re seeing now is our institutions or digital digitizing their online analog processes because of, you know, they, students or staff can no longer walk from one place to the other physically. And some institutions are now optimizing those digital processes. And in some are mature enough to be able to say, how do we transform our value proposition and the way we engage our campus from student service, learning to teaching research, you know, at a higher level. So I think it’s, there’s, the stations are engaged in digital transformation and at different levels. But as I mentioned, COVID-19 is the most, you know, the reality of today, but also want to remind people that, you know, for student affairs, technology is not a new thing. You know, I mean, I think Kevin Guidry, I think his website is Mistakengoal.com, has reminded us that technology has been a part of student affairs, you know, it’s earliest documented as early as 1928. You know, and, and one of the early conferences there talk about the, the issue of, you know, how do we not lose our personalities in the context of machines, right? So even way back then, and throughout the decades, you know, student affairs have adopted different technologies, even punch card! Like punch cards? That’s technology. Yes, it is. It was a new technology at that point in time, it’s innovative, you know, from mainframe to, you know, looking back at social media, web, you know, those kinds of things and emails, and every time those technology has been introduced in our history, there’s been, you know, the resistance there has been like, why do we want to use this? How can we use it for? So the conversation has shifted to, yes, technology has been big part of our student affairs all those years, almost a century, but recently I think has been the focus of how do we use this intentionally, right?

Joe Sabado:
And it’s tied to the idea of student success. And so 2012, I believe it was, it was one of the two major student affairs organizations, ACPA and NASPA started looking at technology as part of the competency, the professional competency. And it started with the idea that technology is a thread that crosses all lines. But I think there was a push recognition that technology shouldn’t be beyond that. And I think that’s what professionals are engaging this idea of how do we develop competency so that we can be more intentional, you know, in terms of, of serving our students and meeting their student success as how they define the debate. So I think the idea now is, you know, yes, we’re in COVID-19, everything is a bit of business continuity program, mindset, but how do you think about strategically, What happens after COVID? Because again, I think COVID is a, you know, instead of inspire right now, but you look at the longer history of student affairs and higher ed, you know, it’s long. And I think there’s, you know, there’s future ahead of us beyond COVID. So thinking strategically, hhing is that’s where we want to be.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Thanks, Joe. You know, you speak to the intentionality. And I think that there are many universities and colleges that are embracing this shift and change. And I think the intentionality has become prominent in our profession. And I think, I want to shift now to Sarah, because Sarah, you are part of something that I think is tied to that intentionality. It’s at Michigan State University and the Hub of Innovation in Learning and Technology in our, in our conversations prior, you directly provide consultation on a variety of online solutions for lots of folks on campus. Can you tell me more about your department and what student affairs staff, faculty and students are looking for?

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
Yeah, so the Hub is, if you will, a little bit like the hub of a car, it’s the glue that really connects the axle to the tires. Now, this is the extent of my mechanics knowledge. So I’ll keep it at that, but what’s important. There is that when, when we design or redesign learning experiences on campus, we help connect units and people who on a very large and decentralized campus might not ever be talking to each other that was pre and during and post COVID. Right. and so we helped design the, the conversations that help move the work forward. Our design consultation work in the past six months has been highly collaborative because of that. We’ve had to break silos and find allies in a way that we never had to before. And obviously we could not have done this the work that we do at the hub without our IT partners, without college teams, without the faculty champions and the mentors that we have. So it’s truly been a team effort to stay student centered while at the same time, helping faculty and staff navigate new circumstances. When we worked with student affairs this summer and helping them rethink their fall welcome we did so strategically. So I’m going to give the, one of those examples of how we function as a, as a hub on campus. So we did so strategically in coordination with the grad school, with our academic academic advancement network, who were each also planning for a new grad students, new faculty and new staff and admin orientation. And we also took lessons learned from our consult with the undergrad new student orientation that had been planned earlier, keeping in mind that those units would never have interacted with each other previously. And because we wanted to make this a concerted effort, not only to just align intentions and best practices, but also to share ideas amongst the group and make sure that we’re, we’re not replicating content and processes that were already done with staff that were already stretched and time and capacity.

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
We wanted this to be, to be efficient. So we needed that conversation to happen so that those units were not doing work that was already happened. So this extended conversation really helped us identify for instance, that we had three main patterns and what we were looking for in all those groups, we needed a need to share. There was a need to share information. There was a need for in-person connectivity, However, that would look like, and that we needed a type of resource fair, those work patterns that we noticed across all of those sites, that type of work that student affairs could really benefit from because we were already doing that work. So connecting them with other groups really helped. And we use this pattern to guide all those different groups through the planning of that work. And then that sends the hub, help provide the strategic, the strategic planning around, around this with student affairs, specifically what quickly became evident for us was the need to create a sense of belonging, obviously for new and returning students without the physical space to do so. So we had to help the student affairs team map out their past events for welcome week. We decided on the most relevant ones with the caveat and almost a sense of loss or grief, right? That those events would not be the same. And they were not translatable directly onto online spaces. And in this case, we pushed for social media campaigns and communications as asynchronous connectivity between people. And we emphasize the importance of meeting students where they were. So we had to do this work with the group to communicate with students, to do research with students, embed them in that planning, ask questions, check social media, to get a sense of their struggles and their needs in order to address them. And that planning this year was obviously a band-aid approach. But I think we learned a lot and I hope that we continue in this trajectory.

Kristen Abell:
Sarah, that response actually is a perfect segue to this question that I want to direct a Kristin. Sarah spoke to belonging and, and being able to collaborate and connect and communication is the center of that. And I know Kristen, you’ve worked in a variety of student affairs, functional areas. What are you seeing from a communication perspective to help us advance on how we do this work?

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
Yeah, absolutely. First of all, I want to hire Sarah and bring her and have her help us as well. So that was really cool to hear what y’all are doing. You know, I think that you mentioned social media and that’s been a big one. That’s how we are communicating, not just with students, but with parents as well. that’s been a huge tool for us sometimes really great and really helpful. Sometimes it’s frustrating because we get, a lot of negative feedback that way too. So, but I think it’s really important. And one of the things that has become even more important with social media is understanding which audience we’re speaking to, where, you know, and that continues. You continue to have to educate, our colleagues about that all the time that, you know, if you’re talking on Facebook, you’re talking to parents. If you’re talking on Instagram, you’re talking to students or TikTok or Snapchat, you know, that those are, you’re not going to be talking to students on Facebook, right. That’s not where they’re at. So like, there’s a constant need to, to educate about that. As well as what, what does that look like? It’s not just promotional, you’re actually engaging in a conversation. I think some of the other tools that I’ve seen really people latch onto, you know, email of course is essential. But it’s also overwhelming at this point because things that you would have said in passing to somebody are now an email. I constantly tell people, you either get me in a meeting or you get me to respond to an email. I can not do both at this point. And so having communications channel tools like Slack, Microsoft teams, group me, those have become really useful, especially when we’re doing so much of the planning around how things are going to look different or trying to get out of particular communication within a certain amount of time or whatever that looks like. I think that those have been essential and they’ve helped people manage the more urgent communication versus an email communication that may take a little bit longer to respond to. I know, you know, one of the things that I talk about with my team is there’s times when I’m out of the office and you can Slack me still, but there’s also times when I’m out of the office, but I’m not gonna check anything in that becomes a text. You know? So like, I, I have like different like levels of communication that I offer to people based on how out of the office I need to be. And of course I’m pretty much always out of the office right now, but, online or not online. And then of course, I think there’s there’s video, which has, pros and cons. You know, I, I have people that I’m in meetings with that never have their video on. And I, that makes me a little sad. I totally understand it makes me a little sad just because I want to connect with them. But I totally understand it too. And I find that I have, I have to build myself up to be in certain meetings. And if I don’t have that time to prep for that meeting, it can really be draining for me. I also happen to be somebody Joe probably knows this about me. I happen to be somebody that shows pretty much whatever I’m thinking on my face and when all they can see is your face, that that can be very challenging. So it takes a lot of work and a lot of energy to manage my face during those meetings. I think one of the biggest challenges that we’ve seen in this area when we’re talking about like online tools, and granted some of this because of COVID has become more of a rapid,ushift is just adjusting what we’re doing.

Kristen Abell:
We’ve all learned how to work in person for the most part in higher ed. And so it’s been really challenging for some people to adjust that. I think it’s been really positive too, for some people I’m, I’m an introvert. So having having time to like write something instead of have a phone call about it or a face-to-face meeting about it, I sometimes love that. I was actually talking with somebody earlier about how I, I really hate talking on the phone, but I will say I’ll text you all day if you need me to. But yeah, I think having some of that has been really great because it’s caused us to be a little bit more thoughtful about how we communicate. And it allows some of those people that maybe wouldn’t have engaged previously. So like I’ve seen in my zoom meetings, I have some introverts on my staff who wouldn’t talk that much in our staff meetings, but we’ll chat all day long. And so I get to hear from those folks a little bit more now. So I think that there’s the, there’s some been some advantages to almost really like forcing student affairs and forcing higher ed to go digital.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
You know, and it’s interesting cause I know that even before COVID, we’ve always talked about shifting shifting the integration of technology and how does that impact in-person communication or in-person services. And, now the conversation during COVID has been once we’re out of it, hopefully in the near future, do we ha is there now a hybrid way of doing in-person versus online and whether it’s communication tools or systems. And so I’ve seen many students services move to tools and systems online and they’re, and they’re using these new hybrid approaches are going to continue using these hybrid approaches. In fact, I think in preparation for this I read about a University in Australia, that’s leveraging artificial intelligence, cognitive systems that are allowing students to access information. Now, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365, a 365 days all year round. And information’s ranging from admissions to class information to even how even just specific student engagement inquiries. What does this mean? I’m curious, what does this mean for traditional in-person student support services in the future? Sarah?

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
Yeah, so I think that it has a lot of implications beyond even students services and higher education, and it’s a trend that we should keep an eye on. So I’m glad that you mentioned that example, but there are, of course are ethical and equity concerns about some of those tools and we should be mindful and critical about their applications. I want to make myself really clear there, but, and it does not replace in-person connections, but I do think that there are strong benefits, particularly when it comes to attracting and retaining students. We’re seeing a race in admission processes, for instance, because of the current circumstances where students are going to choose whether they’re online or in-person programs based on how quickly they can get accepted and how quickly they can get answers to those questions that they might have. So that’s one very small example where advances in technology and AI can make a difference and it doesn’t replace the human connection, but in our current circumstances, that’s something that might push us students and their decision making process,uaround the overall experience of an institution or program, because that experience starts early on before even being admitted.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
I’m glad to hear that, Joe, did you want to add to that?

Joe Sabado:
I think we offer frame this technology versus, you know on campus as that duality. It’s like, you know, it’s like this, we’re not high touch high versus high tech. I literally offer a different perspective on that. I think there’s an end. I think we talk about the, you know, I think Vice Chancellor or Vice Provost for UC Irvine, Michael Dennin, and he talked about this in one of the interviews that he had says they have about 30,000 students. They have 30,000 unique student experience and each of those students will have their own definition of student success. So as we face the reality of, you know, a tightening of the budget and made the constraints ahead of us, I would offer the suggestion that maybe there are things that the technology like Sarah said can, can do for efficiency and, you know, quick responses to compliment those things that we need to do in person. So I think there’s a, there’s a third way of looking at this. I think we often, you know, do this high touch versus high-tech. I think there is a another option, which is how do we compliment those technologies so that we can be more efficient, but also take care of the specific needs of the students. So certainly self-service is a big part of that, you know, and, and, and getting the information right away. And I think Sarah, one of the things I love about this panel, I think we all care about social justice and equity. And I think to me, that’s the core of the work that we do in terms of, and I think COVID-19 has, it has highlighted the need for it to be equitable. Talk about like the, you know, the differences in the demographics and the differences that they have. So I think we have to keep that in the mindset of folks. So as Sarah mentioned, there are no constraints and opportunities for that, but I think I would offer that there is a third way of looking at this is how do we compliment the work that we do in person online, and not just like this or that.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
So, so you’re, you’re actually going into this it’s a very perfect example or segue to the challenges, you know Kristen obviously COVID has pushed campuses to expedite technology integration going high touch, high tech. What are some of the unexpected challenges or unintended consequences that you have seen as campuses have pivoted from in-person to online?

Kristen Abell:
Yeah, I think one of the, and I won’t, I don’t know that it’s unexpected, but, definitely unintended. One of the biggest challenges that we’re seeing for both students and staff, I think is that isolation factor. You know, we talk about how technology allows us to be more connected and I absolutely 100% believe it does. Um have friends all over the because of technology and I love that. But there’s also challenges to how we present ourselves online or virtually as opposed to just being with other people. Right. And I use that language about presenting ourselves very intentionally because I do think there’s a presentation aspect to it. Um do put forward a different, aspect of our personality or our ourselves when we’re online or when we’re virtual. You know, you talk, you see a lot of, folks talking about the social media, social media and how we represent ourselves on social media. And you can only get like this very small glimpse. And I don’t know if y’all have seen some of the memes with like the Instagram picture and it’s got the perfect picture and then you’d look behind it and like, it’s just a hot mess behind it. Right? And I think some of that happens here as well, where we’re very much like styling and making sure that people see what we want them to see of what we’re doing. And so it’s, it’s that turning off our cameras or putting our game face on or, or whatever. And I think one of the other challenges, at least from the staff side of things, but I suspect our students are feeling this too. Uin higher ed we’ve, we’ve long struggled with that balance between work and life, right. And technology we know for a while has been making that even harder.

Kristen Abell:
People are always, you know, able to get to their email now because it’s on their phone or, or whatever that is. I think being at home makes it even harder to separate that. So like, when am I at work and when am I at home, if my laptop is always here or if I’m, if I’m always working. So I think it’s been really hard to set those boundaries and it’s something that even when we set them, we have to consistently over time re-emphasize them and reset them over and over and over again. And I think that can be really, really challenging for folks in, and I think, like I said, I think that’s going to happen with our students too, when our so much of our programming happens in the same format as our classes are delivered. It can be really, really frustrating for a student to even want to engage with that. But also just in general, like if they do, when does, when do they separate their work time from when they’re supposed to be kind of having downtime or relaxing?

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Hmm. Joe, you spoke to some of the inequity social justice inequities, and you’ve worked with many first generation students. You identified yourself as one beginning. And, there has been an impact on our BIPOC communities. How have these shifts impacted these communities?

Joe Sabado:
Yeah, I appreciate I mentioned earlier, I appreciate , the context of social justice and equity in our conversation today, because as you said, I do work with many students on campus and you know, other other campuses, I think mental health, certainly one of those things that, that we deal with that, like, you know, Kristen talked about that, it’s not like COVID-19 is the only thing that’s going, right. So, I mean, there’s racial unrest, well, political unrest, financial insecurities. You know, those are things that I think are contributing to the mental health and that’s what you need. And Kristen, talk about this, the presentation, you know, for ourselves online and think, you know, studies after studies, after studies have shown that social media, if not used, and then in four great ways can lead to mental health issues because of again, the comparing yourself to other people. And then being online, performing all the time. So that’s one, I think it’s hard enough as it is as a first generation to navigate the university physically. And again, even if we provide a roadmap, you know, it’s hard to do that. It’s even harder, for first gen I think, and the folks in this, in this communities to navigate diversity in, in, in, in a virtual way. And I will, I will own up to the fact that I think our systems are so, not designed and well, you know, how many times websites have, have students needed to navigate before they even admit, you know, that the point of admissions, I think you can kind of, if you look, if you do like a student journey map, you can count the number of websites that present themselves differently. Different maybe conflicting information? Barrage of communications.

Joe Sabado:
You know, those are things that I think are inhibitors to success, as opposed to ones that promotes success. Sense of belonging. And someone mentioned there earlier, that sense of belonging is a big part, especially now when your identity is just based on zoom right? In the classroom. And so, you know, I think in our university, we did a survey, I think it was spring quarter. And that’s one of the things that came up is, you know, how do we promote the sense of community building within the classroom? And I think sense of belonging came out, you know, it was, it wasn’t one thing, you know, we promote. As a matter of fact, one of my projects right now that I’m working on is a preferred pronouns and names. Because again, that’s how we see each other now students, how they present themselves. And so being, mis-gendered being, you know wrong, wrong names, those really impact mental health and our identity. So even things we don’t, I don’t think about those little things, matter, you know, to, to our students and ourselves. Yeah. Of course the last piece is financially, right. Yeah. I see. I think for many of our students who, one work on campus, they don’t have the opportunity anymore, you know, for the most part. Family expectation is a different one. I think Kristen talk about when do you separate the, you know, the work from, from home for our students, you know, especially First Gen. So, you know, whose parents don’t, don’t have the sense of like how much it takes to study. There’s certain expectation. You’re a home now. So help me babysit or help me do the chores that I’ve heard personally mean from some of our students that like they can only study after hours, right?

Joe Sabado:
Yeah. Because his parents are expecting them to, to help out with the chores. And lastly, I think even, you know, I was in a FaceTime with my, sister-in-law yesterday and one of them, you know, one of her kids is, college student and then another one is a elementary school student and he reminded me, it’s like, we’re lucky, we’re privileged to have different spaces. Can you imagine families with a studio or an apartment that’s have, you know, five or six family members. And I’m watching my a 13 year old nephew doing like a zoom exercise exercise in front of zoom. Can you imagine, like having like one studio with maybe three or four kids studying? I don’t know how that works. And so, you know, it’s, it’s really heartbreaking to, to think about those things, you know, so that’s why I think it was what we design our systems. As we designed the way we provide services, we have to be mindful about the impact of the, you know, the way we do things to students and their families.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
This was very insightful thoughts and reflections. Joe. Kristen, did you want to add to Joe’s comments?

Kristen Abell:
Yeah. I mean, I think all of that is all of that is so important for us to keep in mind. The other thing that, that has really been interesting for me to learn with our first gen students is the fact that they have no experience of what college looks like pre-COVID. And so we’ve had some really great stories from students who were like, yes, virtual orientation was awesome, cause they never knew what orientation was like before that. Right. it’s, you know, it reminds me of my son is a freshman in high school this year and he’s doing virtual schooling and he loves it. But he has no interest in going into the building ever. So, you know, it’s just, it is interesting how this is also setting kind of an expectation. Like we’re going to have to do some additional education and orientation once we go back in person, if that’s what we go to for these first-generation students as well.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
And I’ll also add other outlier communities are marginalized international students. They’re just, there’s just an array of different populations that are just truly, definitely impacted by this by this and the inequities that exist. Kristen, I want to stay with you. With this next question, campuses are challenged to create co-curricular experiences that align with public health guidelines. What are the challenges and issues that you were seeing?

Kristen Abell:
Yeah. this has been huge. This has been, I think we’ve had a meeting about this at least once a week, since the beginning of the semester, if not, before trying to figure out how do we provide an experience for students who are actually on campus? So we’re in a, currently at Virginia tech, we’re in a hybrid model. So we have some, most of our students are, have some class on campus in person for, for the semester. And so one of the things that we’ve noticed and we have a very active parents, Facebook group, one of the things that we keep hearing is, comments from parents that, you know, there’s not enough for students to do. They’re stuck in their rooms. And we need to, you know, the university needs to do more, to provide activities for these students. And then when we provide activities, we get the feedback that why, why are you having students gather in person that’s not safe? So there’s a little bit of a, we can’t quite do anything right, but we’re trying. And so I think there’s a lot, there’s a lot of challenge too, with the fact that we plan these activities and students don’t come because actually they’re not doing as bad as their parents think they are, or they’re not interested in that particular activity. I think there’s probably a number of reasons that they’re not coming or they’re scared to, they don’t want to be around that many people. I think that we often kind of glaze over the fact that we do have students with some serious health concerns that are scared by this, this virus. So I think there’s been so many challenges. Like I said, we’ve been meeting regularly to talk about how do we do more in-person programming? How do we do more in-person programming with less staff who are in person, because we also have staff with health, health concerns. One of the things that we’ve been starting to push it at Virginia tech, and I just, think has some potential, is this concept of a pod. I don’t know if y’all have heard about this or if other places are using it, but this idea that we have like maybe 10, 12 students who have committed to each other, that they’re gonna follow, safety standards so that they’re safe with each other. And being in a smaller group and being in a, a room even, or, you know, whatever in a smaller space, because they are not going out and, you know, hanging out with other people and not, not wearing their mask or whatever.

Kristen Abell:
And so we’ve been really trying to push that, but even that has its challenges because we have first year students who have not found people that they want to be in a pod with, or don’t know enough about how to meet people because they’ve been hanging out in the room. So I think it’s, it’s, it’s going to continue to be a challenge and it’s going to be something that we continue to work on. I also think some of this is pretty typical of college in the fall, right. Students are experiencing, we are always gonna have students that struggle to meet other people or to get engaged on campus. This is just slightly exacerbated by the current situation we’re in.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
I feel like you’re eavesdropping in the conversations we’re having at UC Berkeley as well. So those challenges are very much are real also on our, this side of the coast, Joe, you wanted to add.

Joe Sabado:
It’s complimentary to what, what Kristen said, you know, that the engagement community building, I was talking with a student leader the other day. And it’s you talk about how the university provides a lot of virtual events and it he goes, “But you know, Tito Joe, yeah, but those are Zoom, you know, and we don’t want to have to like, we’re on zoom already for many hours. We don’t want to be on zoom, you know, and we’d go there. And just, if we want to check out a LinkedIn workshop.” But it’s like a forced interaction, right? So you hear about zoom fatigue. You don’t hear about this perform fatigue, right. It is a sense of like the performative. And as, as Kristen said, it’s like, you have to perform in front of a zoom in front of your professors.

Joe Sabado:
So it’s like, they themselves are experiencing this, you know, how do we, how do we build a community? And one of the things that came out of that conversation is the sense of how do you, how do you create the sense of serendipity, right? Like the moments of serendipity, because this is where you meet friends. It’s not during the meetings and they’re doing their best it’s before the event where you’re hanging out, you know, in front of the yard, the yard and said, by the way, Joe, this is blah, blah, blah, or after the meetings. So that to me, you know, thought about us, like, that’s the part that’s missing, right. Is just those moments of serendipity. And you know, how do you create those? You can’t create those on zoom, but when like, everyone’s like, okay, folks, we’re ready to move. We’re ready to meet. And I was like this and have the people are probably have the videos off. And how do you recognize folks saying, Oh, by the way, this is Maria from, you know, Santa Cruz, you know, it’s like, and you have like a hundred people staring at you or half of them don’t have the videos on. So that’s the challenge that they pose is like, first of all, yes, we, as a university, we do a lot of events as a matter of a lot of events. But for students, like this is another one of those, you know, university functions, you know, to me too, first of all, it’s not cool. You know, secondly, we have our space. So that’s the insight that I, that I think compliments what, what Kristen just said, you know, we’re trying our best, but it’s not what it was never going to be now.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
So, Joe, what advice would you give to student affairs practitioners when they’re trying to be innovative with technology tools and resources, these serendipitous moments

Joe Sabado:
You know what I have said this from the very beginning, talk with your student, I learned a lot. I don’t buy that mindset as administrators, we don’t have time for our students. I call BS on that because if we’re working with our students, we’re not meeting with our students, how are we supposed to serve students? They know, forget about tradition. I mean, Michael Sorrell said that he’s like, we’re not here for tradition. We’re here to serve our students of today. So to me, it’s like, who are your experts? Have conversations with students? We’re serving them.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you, Joe. So I’m gonna pivot a little bit and we’re gonna have a little fun here. And and I gave, I did give the panel a heads up on this question in advance. So it sort of but I think it’s kind of a fun. One is regarding your favorite app on your mobile phone that you feel every student affairs practitioner or college student should have, so your choice, but, I will start with Sarah.

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
Well not in a professional setting, but I have a I’m a user of TikTok. And so finally catching up on the trend, but it’s really got me almost addicted. So I would recommend it though, because it does provide kind of a light comic relief at the end of the day. And I think we all need that. It also, in a weird way does increase that human connection there we’re missing because you see real people in comparison to what Kristin and Joe, you’ve been mentioning the, you know, what you see within the zoom frame of framework. You, you tend to see the opposite on Tik oK, like the reality of, you know, what, if you look a little bit under, you might see that I’m maybe, maybe not wearing sweatpants, you might see, you know, that I have a stack of snacks next to you. Cause I’ve been stressed eating that. I have a teenager upstairs and the toddler downstairs, right? Like the, the reality and the connection that we need. I think that’s been I’m finding this and using TikTok lately. That’s my proudest moment, but it’s, that’s fine.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
That’s awesome. Sarah! I was going to say I too am a new user of TikTok. I actually went through an orientation with my daughter a month ago. So I’m with you on that one. Kristen, What app do you recommend?

Kristen Abell:
Well, so I’m a big fan of puzzle games. And the reason I say games, so I don’t ever play this during meetings. No, sometimes I play it during meetings. So I have a hard time focusing, like on one thing at a time. Right. And so a lot of times I’ll be checking my email or whatever, and then I don’t hear what’s going on. But if I’m doing a puzzle game or something, I’m still listening to what’s going on, but I’m allowing my, my brain, you know, like it’s, I, it gives me just enough busy to still engage in the conversation, still be focused, but also like keep that part of my brain. That’s like slightly bored by whatever’s going on. That’s not relevant to me. I’m engaged. So I’ve been playing twy. That’s my, favorite puzzle game of the moment. So, meah. I like to have that if I’m not playing on my phone a lot of times I’m, cross-stitching during meetings actually, because it helps me, I joke a little bit, but it’s sorta true. Like if I’m stabbing the fabric with a needle, I’m not stabbing somebody else so.

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
That’s better than my stress eating. So that’s good.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
That’s awesome to hear because I’d seen that, I’ve seen that in meetings. And just to know that you’re doing that behind the zoom screen is pretty cool too. And definitely this is a, it’s almost like games on apps are the 21st century version of doodling, right, from back from the day. So Joe.

Joe Sabado:
Oh, I got a lot of them, but what I, let me tell you, I’ll tell you too, what I love TikTok. I have Pokemon Go cause that, you know, I think Glenn and I and I think Kristen are Pokemon Go players. Sarah, I don’t know if you are, but you know, allows me to go outside. But Boomerang, that’s been like a good thing for me. It’s Boomerang a lot. It’s an add on to emails and it allows you to turn off or not even get emails. And you can say, you know, you can give an announcement too, like, you know, a response to whoever is any email with exceptions. You know, there’s an exceptions list, but I love Boomerang for a couple of reasons. One it’s given me the sense of life separation. You know, Kristen talked about last time about, you know, one, one of you really off? And for me, it’s important to protect oneself, to, to disengage. And also to model that the behavior that I want my staff to see, which is to say, yes, I’m busy. I know you I’m one of the busiest people on campus probably, you know, we’re all busy, but to say, yes, I don’t have to work evenings or weekends. I’m modeling that to my staff. And so for people who say it’s impossible, it’s impossible to just disconnect. I’ve done it. And again, I think I do a lot of work, but I think it’s important for us to show that downtime is necessary. Cognitive, cognitive overload. That’s too much. How about Glenn? What’s on your phone?

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
What’s your favorite?

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Oh my goodness. I think that you hit it. It’s Pokemon Go. I think that similarly, I need something to kind of take a break. And there have been times when I don’t have a lot, and it forces me to get outside a little bit, even if it’s just going outside my front door and walking on my front lawn to get my kilometers. And I don’t know. I think that Pokemon Go is doing a really good job in recognizing how COVID is impacting other. So remote raids and different things like that.

Kristen Abell:
I feel like the I’m totally outing myself as a Pokemon Go person here. But I do feel like they’ve done a real, like, that’s a great example of a game that has, and a service that has a totally adapted to the times. Like it’s really cool to see how they’ve done that.

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
Good, good lessons there.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Very much so pre COVID. I used to walk outside my office and just take a walk around and I might do a raid and I’m, I’m literally hanging with a residential student looking at me. I’m all dressed up all nice. I’m looking at them. They, you know, their they’re their college gear. And it it’s a great way to just break the ice. When all of a sudden we’re just talking about, did you catch it?

Joe Sabado:
Can I share a story? Can I share a story? Cause it’s, it’s awesome one. So one day, like I was, you know, of course I’m in my suit and I was playing Pokemon with, with students. And then my Vice Chancellor was walking by and my students were like, “Oh, what are you in trouble?” And then actually my Vice Chancellor reacted differently, which is, and she tells me, this goes, “Joe, I’m glad you’re playing. Pokemon Go because you get to see the campus as to how students see it.” And so I get, you know, in addition to like 15 minute walk, you know, you just do this 15 minute walk in the morning, 15 minute walk and afternoon after you get to see the campus beyond my office. And so she’s like, “I’m glad you’re doing that. I’m glad that you’re engaging with students.” So you know, I have a vice-chancellor who is pretty cool, Vice Chancellor Klawunn. And she even says like, you know, if you’re not engaging online, you’re missing half the conversation.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
That’s awesome, Joe, you definitely have to tag your Vice-Chancellor now and say, you got to listen, you got a shout out on this podcast/webcast. So let’s wrap up. This podcast is called student affairs now. And so from a technology transformation or leadership perspective, what are you pondering questioning? What are you excited about or what’s troubling you? And if we can take, if you can take 60 to 90 seconds to wrap up your thoughts, that’d be great. Let’s start with Joe.

Joe Sabado:
Oh yeah. I’m thinking about a lot of things, especially now. That is why I love being part of these, these panels because I, I, you know, I, I learned a lot from colleagues and thinking about how do we be more equity equitable? And I’m talking about accessibility, universal design, how do we transform the way we perform our work? How do we provide services students? How can we simultaneously simultaneously scale or services while providing personalized system, you know services to meet the unique experiences of our students? I’m thinking about what is the work of the future, not just the future of work what is the future of student affairs? I want to see, that’s a big thing on my mind. And then how can we create an inclusive space for conversations? I think that’s been a big part is how do we engage our students? And I think I’ll own it. I think, I don’t think we’re doing enough good enough you know, effort to engage our students. And then I’m thinking about this idea of a location, you know, like this location elasticity. And this is a, this is a term that a Vice Chancellor, Chancellor for Berkeley used recently. It’s like, we’re so dependent on, on, on going to places, you know, professional development, learning, teaching. And so how do we engage in locations elasticity? And then last piece was I thinking about, and especially in the world of, you know, well, the world of politics now, I was like, how do we transform, our mission, you know, and, and of the university and, and simultaneously, what is our role in, in, in meeting those student success and what it does, what does success mean like now for students?

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Sarah?

Dr. Sarah Gretter:
I’m looking forward to seeing how institutions continue tackling similarly issues of, diversity, equity, and inclusion, and our current environment, but also how it will transcend the current situation when we one day go back on campus. So hopefully this is not just for the time being, I’m also really excited, to be part of conversations like this one, because for the first time in history, really, we are all facing the same challenges. And so it’s a refreshing in a way to see that we are facing the same issues and that maybe there’s an opportunity for cross institutional conversations that haven’t happened before. So, mou know, thank you Glenn for organizing this, but I’m hoping that this is also the model for, for the conversations, the future,

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
As I’m listening to this I’m I completely agree with what you’re saying. It is definitely impacting all of us and Kristen, why don’t you wrap us up?

Kristen Abell:
Yeah, great. I, a lot of both what Joe and Sarah said are things that are on my mind. You know, the virtual programming and digital engagement of our students I think is going to continue to be really important and that it can’t just be a live streamed in person event so that we really have to adjust and learn how to program online. I’m also really, really concerned about the stress and mental health that our current situation is putting on university staff and faculty from somebody who does a lot of advocacy around mental health for higher ed professionals. Like that has been top of my mind for a while now. We’re looking at a spring with no spring break. And how do we, you know, if we’re going to be programming for students all semester long, where do we get to take a break? Where do we get to have that time to do the work where that’s not, you know, in-person, student work, I have some real concerns there. And I, and I think it’s also a little bit different for student affairs, even than other higher ed staff, because student affairs, the services we provide to students are often in person. And if we have students on campus, we want our student affairs staff on campus. Well, that’s all great and well, but like, what about, you know, all these other folks that are also supposed to be supporting the campus, but have the opportunity to stay home. So I think there’s some going to be a little bit of discord there on campuses. And then finally kind of what what’s Sarah was saying, which is that I feel like we’ve learned some really valuable lessons, and I hope we don’t just go back to work as usual, but I hope that we really take some of the things that worked well for us during this time and continue to implement those going forward. I’m really hoping that we see things like more flexible working arrangements and teleworking and things like that that really opened up the possibilities for other people to do these sorts of jobs. And also just to have better you know, like I said, mental health, that’s my big thing to have better mental health and better balance.

Dr. Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you. And I want to actually think all of you and on this panel for taking time today to be on this episode of student affairs now. So Joe Sabado from University, California, Santa Barbara, Kristen Abell from Virginia Tech University and Sarah Gretter from Michigan State University. Thank you so much. If you’re interested in contacting any of our panelists, please go to our website to get their social media account. And while you’re there, as a reminder, please subscribe to our student affairs. Now newsletter, you can visit us at studentaffairsnow.com, please check out our archives. As well, we are, our episode list is growing and it’s wonderful to see the variety of topics that are emerging. Please subscribe to the podcast invite others subscribe, share us on social and leave us a five star review. So please definitely look for us, retweet us, share like us. Our community is definitely growing again. I want to thank our sponsor Stylus Publishing for joining our team and and just being a sponsor of, of our student affairs now podcast. So if you have any other topics, please reach out. Let me know again, my name is Glenn DeGuzman. Thanks again to today’s guests and to everyone who is watching and listening. Please take care. See you next time.

Speaker 3:
Goodbye. Thank you, Glenn. Thanks everyone.

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