Raymond V. Plaza
As I was reflecting on this question, I think at the end of the day, really gets into where do you find community in doing this work? And I think about because what we do know is that sometimes on our campus, there’s not that community to engage with. And I think this is where the value of the professional associations come into play. I think about our networks, our other entity, groups. They really allow you to begin to connect with colleagues. Or how does the professional association provide space?

Mamta Accapadi
Hello and welcome to Student Affairs NOW I’m your co host Mamta Accapadi and I’m also joined today by great colleague and co host Gudrun Nyunt who, who you’ll hear from in a bit. So today we’re discussing political and legislative advocacy in higher education. This is part of a 13 episode series for ACPA, 100th anniversary and a partnership between ACPA and student affairs. Now we have three thoughtful and brilliant guests today, so I’m really, really excited about this conversation. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast, an online learning community for the 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs, we release new episodes every week on Wednesdays. Find details about this episode or browse our archives at studentaffairsnow.com Today’s episode is sponsored by ACPA, an independent 501c3, nonprofit association which is sponsoring this special 13 episode series with Student Affairs NOW to celebrate its 100th anniversary of boldly transforming higher education. As I mentioned, I’m Mamta Accapadi. My pronouns are she, her, hers. And I’m broadcasting from Austin Texas. Austin Texas, is situated on the unceded ancestral, ancestral homelands of the humanos, Kuala, decon, Comanche, Lee, Pan, Apache and takawa peoples.

Gudrun Nyunt
All right, hello, everyone. I’m your co host. Gudrun Nyunt. My pronouns are she and her, and I’m an associate professor and program coordinator of the Higher Education and Student Affairs Program at Northern Illinois University. I also have the honor to serve on the ACPA 100 core committee and as ACPA vice president of membership. I’m joining you today from Northern Illinois University, which occupies the homeland of the Anishinaabe peoples, also known as the Council of the three fires. And so enough from us. Let’s get started with the conversation. Why don’t we have each of you introduce yourself, Brian. Would you like to get us started?

Brian Hercliff-Proffer
Sure. Hi everyone. Brian Hercliff-Proffer, he him, his pronouns. I’m coming to you from Lansing, Michigan, which is the home of the ancestral, traditional and contemporary lands of the Anishinabe peoples, which is also known as three fires feather sea of the Ojibwe Ottawa and Padawan of peoples. I’ve been in higher education for a little over 17 years now, and having served at multiple institutions here in Michigan. However, currently, I’m higher ed adjacent, and have the honor of working for ACPA as the Director of Member belonging. We’re amongst several areas of responsibility and in relation to our conversation today, I support the policy and advocacy work of the Association.

Gudrun Nyunt
Thank you. Brian, Julie, how about you? Next. Hi

Julie J. Park
everyone. My name is Julie Park. I’m a professor of education at the University of Maryland College Park, which is the area of the land inhabited by the castaway peoples, and so I’m glad to be here part of the conversation today. I also serve as one of the CO directors of research based group called the college admissions futures collaborative cafco lab, for short, where we’re trying to do research related to equity in college admissions with a special focus on testing policy right now and currently supported by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation in that endeavor.

Gudrun Nyunt
Awesome. Thank you Julie and Ray.

Raymond V. Plaza
Well, thank you and thanks for having me on the podcast today. I’m Ray Plaza, Senior Director in the Office for Diversity Inclusion at Santa Clara University. Pronouns, he him his. And Santa Clara University sits on the lands of the Ohlone and Moak Maloney people. And I’m so here my role as chair of ACPA public policy and governmental affairs area, and so I’ve been in the field for a little bit over 25 years at different institutions. So glad to engage with you on the conversation today.

Gudrun Nyunt
Thank you, and we’re excited to have the three of you on and learn more about some of the amazing work that that you’re all doing. And so when we’re thinking about right the time we’re living through right now, there’s a lot of values that many of us in higher education value right that are being attacked, in particular values that ACPA as an association strives to champion. And so can you share with us, right a little bit about how each of you are engaging in political and legislative advocacy, and how you try to do that and foster change. Ray, why don’t you get us started?

Raymond V. Plaza
Sure. So thank you. And so when I think about this topic, we know that ACPA has always been involved in this space over its course of its 100 year history, it wouldn’t be here if it hadn’t been working in this advocacy arena. And so what we’ve seen over the last 20 or so years is this evolve and how ACPA was doing its work. It created an extra External Relations Advisory Board, or Director of External Relations to begin to navigate it was still signing on engaging with its other higher ed partners, but most recently, as it started to think about its leadership structure changed this. And so in Chicago a few months ago, the new structure came into play, where I shifted from my role as director Elect of external relations to Chair of Public Policy and governmental affairs, and I believe that shift is intentional to really hone in and lift up the role that ACPA can play in that arena. And in addition to created a whole new task force on public policy and Governmental Affairs. And so I think, and if anything, I think it will take us to that next level of really, what are we doing in terms of not just responding to things that take place in the policy area, but how are we better educating our members? How are we expanding that knowledge, that awareness. How can we become more proactive in this work in this timeframe? So it’s an exciting time. I’ve had a chance to sit serve on the external relations Advisory Board, work closely with the international office and the leadership in developing statements. But I think this begins to take us into a different realm an area to build upon this effort. So I’m excited about that. Yeah,

Gudrun Nyunt
thank you. And I know Brian you and your role also work with ACPA around political and legislative advocacy. So can you share a little bit about what you do?

Brian Hercliff-Proffer
Yeah? So fortunately for me, I enjoy this type of work, and working with colleagues, such as Ray on on making our association wide statements like he was mentioning, we also have our ACPA position statements that they review and also, at times, create, depending on what is the need that our members and the association in The field may need, and other professional development opportunities, but also some really unique stuff that I may not have even known. Actually, I didn’t know as a member, but coming into this role, seeing what ACPA does is a couple of things with our higher education partnerships that we have with other higher ed associations. A couple of our partnerships include being a member and partner within the Washington higher ed education Secretariat, also known, commonly known as the Secretariat and chemo, which is the Council of Higher Education Management associations. And so with them, we do a lot of conversations of, how are we connecting policy and advocacy to our work? How are we making sure we are having a voice at the table, to make sure we are in a going in a direction that can benefit our students, ultimately, who we serve right on our campuses? And in particular, we have a close relationship with sahec, the Student Affairs Higher Education Consortium, which is composed of about, I believe five organizations right now, and we actually have a really tight relationship with this group. Collectively, we do work with a third party organization called active policy solutions who help us navigate the wide range of legislation that is happening, both state and federal. One of the ways that we do this frequently is a weekly policy pages. So they kind of scan the landscape of legislation on specific topics we’re interested in. In particular, for us, it’s, you know, of course, higher education, but also looking at a lot of the diversity, equity, inclusion pieces and and areas that align with the work that we do, in particular with the strategic imperative for racial justice and decolonization. And so every week, we get these briefs. They can range from a couple of pages to more than a couple pages. It depends on what’s going on in the world and our legislative bodies, but we’ll get a rundown of anything and everything that has made some significant movement or has not made it for a while, but it’s still out there, so that we’re very aware that it may be slow and moving, but it’s still there. It can be from the good to the struggling to some opportunities for us to voice some opinions, and it just kind of helps us stay apprised and be more proactive in terms of, okay, what is the landscape where? Where can we provide support for our members, for the student center institutions in you know, as part of some of these relationships, we do what we call sign ons. Sign ons are letters or comments on legislation. And both at the in particularly on the federal level, that we can say, hey, this regulation is coming out. We agree with these points. We we think you should reconsider these other points. Here’s the impact on our students, or on the work that we do in order to fulfill our missions of higher education institutions, and then faculty and staff of those higher education institutions. So, you know, those topics can vary. It can range from working on processing student visas more effectively to our Pell grants to, you know, schedule a or the permanent labor certification processes, I believe, is what it was distance education. So a lot of wide ranging areas that our members and our institutions work in, and we feel like there, there’s work to be done, or there, we want to also give kudos to the direction that they’re going. And we want to say that so they know, yes, this is the direction that we that we support moving in. And, you know, just a lot of that stuff will come through, and it shows the breadth of work in really area that our field does, and how impactful it is from federal and state areas. And just having that knowledge also helps us prepare better, to again, anticipate or hopefully better support our members as they navigate through all these myriads of layers of legislation. So that’s kind of some of the stuff that we do on the supportive staff side, within ACPA context of advocacy. Yeah.

Gudrun Nyunt
Thank you, Brian, and I like how you started with white you didn’t even know about this as a member. And I think that’s a common experience, is that that our members don’t necessarily know all the amazing things that are happening. And I think what race Task Force really comes in right, is raising some of that awareness and helping members see some of the work we can do, and also how they support it. And so Julie, you, you’ve been someone that I’ve always looked up to in terms of how you advocate and engage in political advocacy, particularly. And so can you share a little bit about some of the things that you have done in this arena? Sure,

Julie J. Park
yeah, I wouldn’t necessarily frame my work as political advocacy, or at least not in the way that I think their past two speakers are engaged in sort of a more direct way. But you know, as a researcher, I’ve been able to collaborate with different civil rights organizations and different institutions that are trying to advance goals, you know, related to equity and justice. And so in that realm, you know, my area, I’m a researcher, right? That’s my bread and butter. But where the research can be helpful, or when there are clear implications from the researcher, from the research, I can work with policy makers, those who are more directly positioned in the advocacy sphere, to help them understand that research and then use it to advance their different different ideas or solutions. Or, you know, what should be the implications of this? And so I’ve done it in a couple of different capacities.

Julie J. Park
I served as a consulting expert on the students for fair admissions versus Harvard case on the side of Harvard. And in that capacity, you know, I had been doing research on Asian Americans in college admissions for a number of years. And so I was able to, you know, connect that team when lawyers have questions about just understanding the research, understanding different patterns. You know, are these conclusions that we can draw from the research? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. And so that. Was, yeah, a really interesting and unique role from some of that work, some of the relationships that I built with the legal community and that and the civil rights community in that realm, led to another engagement with a national civil rights organization that was doing more direct advocacy work, partnering with state legislators and community members and alumni of some different in two different states, but they wanted a research study done of the particular campus that they were hoping to enact change around. And so as part of that, I was able to bring together a team of graduate students, and we did a pretty extensive climate study of each institution, and from there, we made some recommendations, but ultimately wrote these reports that the that the advocacy team was able to use as a resource in their in their work, and then now with caf, colab, we’re doing all of this research around test, optional admissions, test, free admissions following the debates on standardized tests and through some of those studies. You know, from time to time, when we think that there’s, you know, a conclusion that can be drawn from the research, we might do things like write op eds or, you know, do webinars or panels where we say, well, this is what we think the research says. Or in some cases, we were in the position to point out that the research doesn’t always point to a clear direction around testing requirement requirements. And so, you know, as researchers, we, yeah, recognize that there’s a lot of sometimes ambiguity in research. There are a lot of different micro level decisions that are made in research studies. And you know, there can be certain conclusions that a study can come to, but does that necessarily lend itself to a clear cut policy direction, sometimes yes, but sometimes no? And so I think it’s actually as important to point out the times where sometimes research doesn’t lend itself to a clear policy direction, because that can be really important information for policy makers to know as well. So that’s something that we try to do in that role.

Mamta Accapadi
Oh, thank you. Thank you Julie. Thank you Ray and Brian. You know what I’m struck by as listening to all of you you know. Gudrun introduced us to talk about the connections of our values into this work. And what is so moving is that to observe the way that the three of you have integrated your values, and then you lead and institutions in very distinct and different roles by which you kind of infuse those values to kind of advance equity based social change. So it’s just really inspiring to hear how you all do that in very different ways, and yet there’s an interdisciplinarity and kind of how you approach that work. So just noted that, and with that, was really inspiring. And as we think about that, you know, for our colleagues who are watching and listening, we’d love to hear your individual, collective perspective on how you think we certainly in the field of higher education. How could we be more effective in engaging in political and legislative advocacy, and on the flip side, what challenges do you see our field facing as we engage in this work. So for this, I’ll start, Julie, you’ll start with you to I would love to hear your perspective. Yeah.

Julie J. Park
I mean, I think that Phil, this up against a lot of challenges right now. I mean, it’s just amazing to see how things can change in such a relatively short amount of time. And so there are challenges like misinformation. There are challenges like the willingness of different legislators, I think, to engage and to listen. I think there are just so many misconceptions. There are agendas, right? And so there are agendas that have found that distortion of different ideas is including those that are sort of more common within academia, right, and were once considered relatively obscure. I think you know, some have found that distorting those or at least just putting them in a handy acronym where no one even thinks, like, what does the acronym stand for is an effective way of advancing an agenda that is oftentimes hostile, right or really counterproductive to some of the causes that are most close to us, right in terms of supporting equity and access, access and equity, in terms of supporting students of color on campuses, diversity and equity and inclusion, etc, and so, yeah, there are so many challenges. And this is where I think, you know, as a researcher, I feel overwhelmed sometimes just looking at the trickle it down effect on, you know, our very universities, on the types of classes that people are. Able to offer in, you know, staffing and all of those things. But I’m also reminded that we wear different hats, right? And so that, you know, I’m thankful I don’t wear that some of those hats, but I hope to support, you know, those who do. And you know, whether it’s brainstorming or thinking of like, oh, well, what does the research actually say on these topics, or, you know, etc, it can be hopefully a support, but, yeah, I mean, just certain states, just the tide has turned in so many different ways politically in our country. Yeah.

Mamta Accapadi
Thank you so much, Ray. I’ll go to you next.

Raymond V. Plaza
Sure, and so I appreciate the question. We know that in, you know, for those of us that have gone through traditional higher ed programs, you know, we take higher ed law, but that’s it. We don’t get to public policy, how we navigate, you know, you sort of learn about it as you stay in the field. And I think that affects how we navigate, you know. And I think when I think about today and some of the challenges, I think we could be more effective and better educating, better providing tools, but I think we face a climate of a lot of there’s a fear of retaliation, of silencing. You know, we’re we have tangible examples in a number of states, they don’t want organizations to say anything. You know, institutions should not issue statements, but, you know, and but it goes against what our members want. Our members want to be a part of an association that cares about them, the communities they’re part of, the issues they’re part of, yeah, so when these states and we’re not we’re going to go, we’re going to silence This association, because you spoke up. Well, we’re trying to do what’s best for our members, and you’re telling us to be quiet. So it’s sort of interesting to think about it that way, because when we think about I tie this to the value of professional development, yeah, you know, with institution says, well, we’re not going to fund x, because exports well, but that has an impact on the Professional Development of your staff. Yes, and resources available. And so the sense I get is it’s really this fear of accountability in that respect. And you know, one example I’ll just point to in 2017 you know, ACPA was planning its national convention in 2018 in Houston. And so Texas decided to this, get into anti trans legislation and advance those it was really too late for us to for ACPA to change its conference. But, you know, we said, well, you know, we need to speak up, you know, and in that realm, you know, we sent postcards. We did a postcard writing campaign. We mailed Z Nicolaus book to every legislator in Texas to say, hey, you know, we’re walking away from our colleagues in Houston. We’re going to be there knowing that it’s going to be a challenge for some of our members, but we’re going to do so and stand up and advocate. And you know, when you think about 26 states right now are under legislative orders not to implement the new title nine standards will tremendous to further protect our LGBTQ plus students further reinforce the fact that we stand up for non discrimination. And you have 26 states that basically saying sorry, we don’t want to abide by those things. And so we think about this broader landscape, and what does it mean for us to serve members and all of these different places? So I know that there’s a lot of fear. There’s a lot of fear for people to speak up, but at the end of the day, if we go back to our values, as you noted and Brian talked about, our strategic comparative we have to remain steadfast in our commitment to, you know, speak up, advocate for our students, be there to provide our colleagues, even in the midst all these challenges. And I think this is where I think our increased approach around education and awareness are so critical. I think because, just as Julie said, we don’t know what the truth is anymore, and we have to be willing to ask those questions and hold people accountable when they don’t want to be held accountable.

Mamta Accapadi
Yeah, thank you so much for the thoughtful reflection. Ray Brian, we’d love to hear your wisdom. Yeah,

Brian Hercliff-Proffer
as you. Julie and Ray were talking, you know, I think I love the fact that Ray said, to be steadfast, be consistent. I think to be effective. That’s, that’s where I lean. To be more effective is just keep trying, keep being there, holding that space, challenging and sharing. And I was also thinking as they were talking. You know, in our work, we we often say the phrases both and or two truths can be true. And I think in this work, that comes into play a lot, but unfortunately, our our tools that we are able to use, such as a position statement or just a statement on a situation, or, you know, a sign on we’re not able to really go deep and share that we were doing multiple things with this one letter right on this very one specific topic, not recognizing how it may interplay with five other pieces of legislation, or maybe impact another state on how They’re managing some of these topics and impacting our students, whether it be students of color or queer, students with students with disabilities or even just access to higher education. And so I think that’s one of the really big challenges that we have, is we’re trying to fit like a multiple D scenario into a 1d tool. And I think thinking through, how do we then get beyond that? How do we kind of do multiple tools to create this overall, Multiple Dimension response, to share what our values are, to share where we feel the best direction needs to be in order to care for not only our Association members in the work that I do, but also the work that they do on their campuses, and impacts the students who then become the future of our institutions and our country and of the world, and becoming those well rounded global leaders. And so as they were talking, I was just kind of thinking about a lot of the tools we do use that we’ve all mentioned, but sometimes that depth is not there. And I think that is one of the really big challenges we have in this and especially right now. You know, it’s hard to give grace and to give all of that the the space for all of that in the fast speed of everything, statements, quick, quick quotes and, you know, sound bites in a fast paced moving in our situation right now, legislative period and election and so that just kind of got my mind a little, you know, pondering as we were, we were talking there,

Gudrun Nyunt
yeah, yeah. I’m glad you bring that up, Brian, right? Because I think all of these issues are so nuanced and complicated, and sometimes when you write these statements, there’s only so much you can say, right? And, and I recently did a study on anti Asian hate during the covid 19 pandemic. And one of the things that you know across all the students interviews that came out was students were saying, well, there wasn’t even a statement, but even if there had been a statement, right? It’s just a statement like, what are the actions that are following? And so that leads me to my next question for all of you, right? Many of us in this field are really passionate about diversity, equity and inclusion, and that’s why many folks get into higher ed and Student Affairs. And you’ve talked a little bit about how ACPA, as an association, engages in this work. And Julie, you as a researcher, engage in this work. But for kind of student affairs professionals, right? What can we do to engage in this work? What advice do you have for professionals interested in getting more engaged in political and legislative advocacy on a state or national level? Brian, do you want to get us started with this?

Brian Hercliff-Proffer
Yeah, I think I have some. I have practical type of, maybe points, you know, one is just being educated, right? In addition to everything that we read, For our jobs or for our classes that we’re taking, or whatever, you know, taking look at Inside Higher Ed or other news sources, AP, Reuters, or all of those publications, getting a take from all of them kind of allows you to make your own understanding and piecing it together puzzling. I’m a big puzzler, so I love a good puzzle. And so I think sometimes a lot of this work is kind of thinking through there. I would say, you know, keeping in mind what your mission, vision values are as an institution, if you’re going to do it for your institution or for your work, maybe your personal values or personal centers, if you want to do it more on a personal, individual level. But I would say as a caveat, if you do do it in particular on a personal level, definitely know what your institution parameters are depending on your institution, your state legislation, you know, private, public, all those levels that we sit in, what are we held to in terms of if there are any. The value standards or commitments that we have in our contracts, just making sure you don’t violate it, because it also, personally, wouldn’t want you to lose your job for doing this work. Sometimes it is worth it, sometimes it’s not, but at least be aware of what you are entering into. And I think the other thing would be more of a feeling type of thing would be self care. This is hard work. This is personal work. It is exhausting work. And even when we’re doing it as professionals, it hits us on a personal level, deeply often and so really knowing there are going to be times you cannot go all in, you do have to sometimes take a step back, or take a moment, or tag team in and out. Because you know, when you go into advocacy work, you have your perspective and your stance, but someone has another one that might be coming at you, and that can always be hard to always hold that shield. And so just being really mindful of how you’re caring for that, and how you’re holding it and what you need in order to keep pushing forward. Because I think burnout can be a very big thing, whether you do it for for your position, for your institution, or for yourself. So I would just add those pieces of advice.

Gudrun Nyunt
Yeah, thank you, Julie. What would you like to share?

Julie J. Park
Yeah, I mean, I think I’ll speak to people who are in the research or research faculty realm, since that’s what I’m kind of best positioned to know about. For, yeah, for whether you’re in graduate school training, you know, as a either a scholar practitioner or research and scholarship focus? Yeah, I think there are different ways to connect either your work to the policy sphere or to, you know, even just help, it doesn’t always have to be your work. Sometimes it’s just knowing a body of research really well inside and out, and then connecting to the people who are trying to potentially make change around that area and helping them understand, well, this is what the research says. This is what it doesn’t say. This is where there are clear directions. This is where there isn’t, there aren’t clear directions. So that’s something that can be done. You know? I think another thing is op ed writing, trying to get your work, or amplify your work, or the work of others to broader audiences. And so you’ll have different people who have perspectives on whether this is, you know, for some people, they may say, Okay, this is something I’m going to say for after tenure, I want to prioritize the things that I need to that are required kind of or that I know I need to have. And that’s I think that’s fine for other people. I think it sometimes can feed sort of your overall momentum right to be dipping your toe still, or to still be writing for kind of more public audiences, while you’re also engaging in that peer review space. And so I think every person is different, and they just have to make sure that, you know, your kind of equation balances right. Where do you want to be in five years? Where do you want to be in 10 years? And does being involved in sort of the policy sphere? How will that help, you, know, help you in those ways? Or are there things that you need to get done first and then, yeah, could be, I think just across the board, there are different advocacy organizations, ACPA, of course, you know, right, and others that are doing the work on the ground and working with state higher education systems, etc. And so I think there are a lot of different ways, depending on someone’s research to think of how they might either get connected or, you know, another thing is report writing, or writing some of those in between policy briefs and those, those kind of whether they’re some people say they’re translational pieces, like translating research. Other times, it’s synthesizing it and getting it in, in a in a format that’s much easier for a kind of everyday people to read, or bullet points even, right? Um, so yeah, we had like a report, and then we wrote, like, a policy brief version of it, and then we wrote a one page version of the policy brief, right? It’s like the briefer brief, and that’s a skill, and that graduate school doesn’t always have time to teach, and so I think that’s something that, yeah, for some if people find that to be rewarding, I think that’s there’s always a need for that out there.

Gudrun Nyunt
Yeah, I love that. I feel like, as someone who’s recently tenured, that’s definitely an area I would love to do more. I think I’ve very much focused on getting the publications out, and now I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about, how do I actually do something with what I found or the research that I do? So I love all those suggestions. Ray, what are some of your advice or strategies on engaging in this work?

Raymond V. Plaza
Yeah, no, no. Thank you. As I was reflecting on this question, I think at the end of the day, really gets into where do you find community in doing this work? And I think about because what we do know is that sometimes on our campus, there’s not that community to engage with. And I think this is where the value of the professional associations come into play. I think about our networks, our other entity, groups. They really allow you to begin to connect with colleagues. Or how does the professional association provide space? I think about, you know, this summer, ACPA held a series of community conversations to talk about how campuses were navigating the protests and what was taking place. And we, Brian and I, encountered colleagues who didn’t have anyone to talk to on their campuses about this. They were shooted. They had they didn’t know who to go to for that fear. And we provided a space that was not recorded, but just members for them to engage, and that is, I think, so important. And I think about my own journey within ACPA and other groups, navigating with Latinx based colleagues and talking about issues that I didn’t know who to talk to on my campus about. And that led to deeper collaborations, deeper engagement around topics. So I think that wherever you find community essential to this work, and I think it really gets into what Brian shared around self care, because you can commiserate with others, talk about how a different sense of conversation. The other thing I would say is thinking about, what am I doing in the community? Are there community organizations that I can get involved with? And I’ll share, I spent 15 years at Virginia Tech, and perhaps one of the most fascinating experiences was the fact that I was an officer in our local NAACP chapter. You know, I was initially charged with, how do I begin to build relationships with our local black African American community? And initially they shut the door on me. They thought I was just going to use them and leave. But I had to prove No, I was being sincere in my effort to want to rebuild ties between then Virginia Tech and the local area and Christiansburg and the New River Valley. And it led to me being on the board and being active, sitting side by side, and provided a different awareness, different level of engagement, and sort of provided a different way for me to channel some of those experiences. And I know that we often get so bogged down in our institutional work that we sometimes forget about what is that avenue outside where I can engage locally in some of these issues, and that provides a whole different insight into local issues, state issues, and so I just share that. So I think it’s where in the end of the day, do you find community, and how you could use that to expand some of these connections and awareness.

Mamta Accapadi
I just I find this collective reflection so meaningful, all three of you brought up different manifestations of relationships, right? Whether Ray, kind of most recently to you, like, What’s your relationship in community? And where do you find you know? Where are the support infrastructures? Brian, your reminder to us that we have a relationship with ourselves, that if we don’t maintain that, then, you know, how can we be fully present with others? And Julie really moved by the, you know, we need to remember that we all are at different parts of a continuum of learning and understanding. And so that means we have the ability, if we’re, I liked your reference, of translating right, translating content, maybe in a way that it might sit in researchers to your language, so maybe it’s palatable to a specific community, but maybe I have the skill set to translate that, that research into something that feels more meaningful for me as a as a member of the community, in a way that’s accessible, right? So we but all of those things center, how are we being in meaningful relationship in different dimensions of our worlds and communities. So that was just so powerful from all three of you. And you know, of course, we could talk for days, and our time is slowly coming to an end on this podcast, your brilliance and your wisdom and care is just so evident. I know that I’m going to be thinking about a lot of the things that you’ve shared, and definitely going to be thinking about ways I can be more present in community race. So thank you for that. I would love you know you know what we do when we record these podcast episodes. It’s called Student Affairs NOW, and so one of the end of questions that we typically ask at the end of an episode is. Is, you know, as we think about higher education or in general, like, what is captivating you? What are you pondering most right now? And so it could be related to this topic or just in general. And so with that, I will go to Ray first, like, what are you pondering right now?

Raymond V. Plaza
Got it! No. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity today. You know, I would say, I think that what, as I was reflecting on this thinking about, how do we show not only the value of the work we do in higher ed, but the value of discourse? Yeah, some ways we’ve lost that, and I think we’ve seen that in the Israeli Palestinian protests since October 7 to engaging around the election, to dei we’ve, we’ve lost that sense of discourse, and what that means as we navigate that, yeah, and I think we’re struggling, and I think it’s going to affect what takes place between now and the election And after the election, and, and, you know, and I think it’s affecting how folks are perceiving the value of the work that we do, how we navigate. And so I think those are the things that I’m I’m really thinking about, and how do we continue to do this work in that piece, especially as I engage with colleagues that, you know, we’re at New College in Florida, and we’re talking about what life was like on the ground and coming to a place that’s very different structurally, and so I those are the things that I’m thinking about.

Mamta Accapadi
Thank you so much. Okay, we’ll go to Brian.

Brian Hercliff-Proffer
I’m always thinking about, there’s always lots of things that I’m thinking about now, but I think for me, and then, in somewhat related to our topic today, is really part of my title of belonging. And so what does belonging mean, and how does it show up, whether it’s working within public policy and advocacy, or how we’re showing up on our campuses or in our work or even in our associations? I don’t think we’re ever getting away from advocacy, whether it’s self advocacy, collective advocacy, legislative advocacy. I think there’s always advocacy, because I think there’s the need for the sense of belonging. And so what does that look like, and how does that present? And how has that changed since, within the past 10 years, there’s been a lot, you know, we had a little pandemic, no quarantine. We’ve had a couple of elections, some big philosophical social shifts, and so I think we’re grappling with, what does that belonging mean, and what does that mean to our students on our campuses, in our programs, in their careers? And so that’s kind of as we were talking today and just over the past couple of months, you know, that’s kind of been what’s on my forefront, and what I’ve been kind of fussing out for myself and doing some of the work that I get to do.

Mamta Accapadi
Thank you so very much. And then, Julie,

Julie J. Park
Yeah, what I’m literally thinking about now I am, every couple of hours, I’m clicking refresh, or I’m going to edreformnow.org I think the or the advocacy organization, is ed reform now, they have a tracker on their website, which is tracking just basically shifts, demographic shifts in the first year, class, race, ethnicity data following the Supreme Court ruling. So that’s what I’m thinking a lot now, just trying to understand what’s the change at different institutions. Why are some institutions not being very specific about their numbers? Maybe some of the institutions that people work for right on this podcast. So that’s interesting to me, and concerning. And so yeah, I’m thinking a lot about it, and I’m also thinking about what’s going to happen, or I’m curious to know what’s going to happen next year, when more some, not a large number, but when some institutions go back to requiring standardized tests.

Gudrun Nyunt
Yeah, thank you all. This has been wonderful, and you’ve all given me so much to think about and ponder over the next couple hours and days and weeks. So thank you all for your leadership in this space.

Mamta Accapadi
I’m adding my gratitude to and I just also want to offer gratitude to today’s sponsor, the sponsor of today’s episode, which is ACPA. ACPA college student educators International, celebrating its 100th anniversary, is boldly transforming higher education by creating and sharing influential scholarship, shaping critically Reflective practice and advocating for equitable and inclusive learning environments. ACPA aspires to be higher educations and Student Affairs most inclusive and community driven. Association by leading our profession in centering social justice, racial justice and decolonization as defining concepts of our time and and the foreseeable future. ACPA is annual. Convention is February 16 through 29th 2025 in Long Beach. Visit my acpa.org or connect with us on Instagram, Facebook and X to learn more about ACPA and friends. A huge shout out to our producer, Nat Ambrosey, who does all of the behind the scenes work to make us look good and sound good. Thank you so much, Nat. We love the support for these important conversations from our community. You can help us reach even more folks by subscribing to our podcast, YouTube and weekly newsletter, announcing each new episode and more. If you are so inclined, you can also leave us a five star review. I’m Mamta Accapadi with Gudrun Nyunt. A much love and gratitude to everyone who is watching and listening. Please, my friends, make it a beautiful week that honors your soul, spirit and ancestral wisdom. Thank you so much for joining us today.

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