Kyle Reyes
Well, just the other day, I kid you, not just the other day, and I’ve been practicing the intentionality of not allowing some external thing to affect how I’m showing up. Somebody cut me off in traffic, like I was, I, you know, I’m sitting there and driving, and I’m like, Oh, this is nice. And they just whoop and, and I kid you not. I said the ice, the Kyle of old that grew up in LA traffic. I was, I was like, tempted to be like, let me start cussing out person. Let me go. Let me go, pull up next to them and shake my fist and all this stuff and so then. But here’s what I practiced, here’s what I caught. I purposely caused my mind to do. And I kid you not, I did this, and it changed everything. As they cut me off, I just said, I sure hope that whatever they need to get to that they can get there safely, because it could be a family member that they have to get to. It could be that they’re late for an interview. It could be that they just, they’re rage driving because they just had a tragedy in their family. And so I just Yep, they cut me off. And I’m gonna practice this thought work here, that if I change the story, it’s gonna change my whole demeanor for the rest of this drive

Mamta Accapadi
Welcome to Student Affairs NOW, the online learning community for Student Affairs educators. I’m your host. Mamta Accapadi. Student Affairs NOW is a premier podcast and learning community for 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays. Find us at studentaffairsnow.com on YouTube or anywhere you listen to podcasts. This episode is sponsored by Huron, a global professional services firm that collaborates with clients to put possible into practice. Today’s episode is also sponsored by Routledge Taylor and Francis view their complete catalog of authoritative educational titles at routledge.com/education. Stay tuned to the end of the podcast for more information about each of our sponsors. As I mentioned, I’m Mamta Accapadi. My pronouns are she, her, hers. And I am broadcasting to you today from Austin Texas. Austin Texas is situated on the unceded ancestral homelands of the peoples, my dear friends, I’ve been so excited about this episode and conversation you’re going to see in greeting ear to ear, it’s hard for me to contain my excitement. It is such an honor to share space with someone I consider a mentor, and in full candor, a sibling in our profession, a mentor sibling in our profession. So please welcome Dr Kyle Reyes. I’m going to do a brief bio, and then we’ll get started. Dr Kyle Reyes serves as Vice President of Institutional Advancement, CEO of the UVU Foundation, and associate professor at Utah Valley University, the largest university in the state of Utah, with over 43,000 students before before this particular appointment, in october 2022 Dr Reyes served for five years of the VP for Student Affairs, and from 2014 to 2017 he served as UV use senior diversity and inclusion officer. In that role, he led the development and implementation of UV use nationally recognized strategic inclusion plan, consisting of nearly 40 initiatives focused on making UVU a more inclusive and caring campus. He has been at UVU for 19 years in various offices and programs, TRIO Upward Bound Gear Up, Multicultural Student Services, student success and retention, the School of Education and the Office of the President in his free time. Kyle also serves on the board of Asian Pacific Americans in higher education, APA Hey and on the Utah governor’s multicultural commission. He is the past president of the Utah chapter of the National Association of multicultural education. He has also served as the co chair of the college access network for the Utah System of Higher Education, and a member of the Board of Directors for the United Way of Utah County and American Indian services of deep importance, joy and personal purpose to him. Kyle and his wife, Michelle, have seven children, and they deliberately try to build their cultural heritage, including Hawaiian Navajo, Filipino and Japanese identities and experiences, into their family, learning and engagement. So Dr Kyle Reyes, it’s just such a gift to be Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on at this podcast. I’m so excited to talk yeah. I’m like, yeah, just excited to talk about your book like, so such a gift to be in community with you. I mean, you just recently came out. I mean, in addition to all of these moments, you’ve had some life transformation moments too, with with your kids journeys and stuff like that. And I hope we can talk about that, but really want to center our conversation around the release of your book, lenses of humanity. And so I have to tell you, it was the dose of joy and hope that I know that I needed, and I better just reflect a little bit and say, you know, when you open the book, it was an invitation to me, but you reflect that as you were writing this, this is a text that’s part memoir, part academic investigation and part public discourse, and that it stems from your personal, messy journey, and that it’s taken shape through the up your ups and downs. As an educator, an artist, community advocate and a family man, I would just love to hear. Can you share more about what moved you to write this book? A little bit more about the journey.

Kyle Reyes
Well, let me just start by thanking you for even allowing me to share this space with you. Mamta, you know how deeply our relationship goes in terms of our respect for one another and and the way that we really I’ve said this before, we kind of finish each other’s sentences when it comes to our work and and what we stand for. So I’m honored to be here to your question in terms of, I mean, again, I don’t want to take the whole time with just the answer to this one question. Let me see if I can be disciplined at some level on answering this, because the question itself has so much context, and it’s hard to answer that question without understanding that. You know, really quickly, some data some data points. I came from a mixed racial, ethnic background, as was stated in Southern California. Mother, Hawaiian, Japanese, Father, Filipino, a mixed religious household with different faith communities and religious affinities, if you will. I was somebody who, you know, followed, I’m the youngest of three children. I followed a very strong academic siblings where I was the artist. I was the one doodling and doing graffiti art and those types of things. And so when it talks about, when I when I declare it the the introduction there that this is somewhat of a memoir of my own personal, messy journey I have tried to navigate the space in between that many others. Yeah, not just higher education, but in this world, when it comes to mixed identity, mixed experiences, where we’re trying to really establish our sense of place, our sense of community, our sense of value when we come from these very mixed backgrounds. And it’s because of that that throughout my work in higher education, I have tried to I have developed certain lenses of advocacy for for underserved populations. My for my very first job in higher education as a TRIO Upward Bound outreach counselor, right? So any, any trio people out there that’s listening, I mean, you know, once you’re part of the trio family, but, but that’s where I got my first started, my professional journey, which really framed for me the power of the work of higher education as an opportunity leveling for all through then graduate work and my work at Utah Valley University and in community with people like you nationally, I have continued to refine those lenses of what it means to show up for my students and for others, and then ultimately doing diversity, equity, inclusion, justice work in a community that I love, like Utah, right a community that I’ve stayed in and live but that still has not always been embraced. Such things, I’ve had to find new entry points to do this work, both for my own energy, but then also for the effectiveness and impact of the initiatives I was involved in. And so it really all kind of led to these, these things, my background, my professional experiences, and then doing the this work in the context that I’ve done it have all led to the focus and rebranding. I will just call it rebranding of this work as humanity based work, and then leaning into this idea that lenses frame our behavior, and if lenses frame our behavior, then maybe let me not focus so much on trying to change funding or an initiative. Let’s see if I can invite people to consider both an individual and an organizational transformation from a very deep place. So that’s that would be my response. Then very good.

Mamta Accapadi
Oh my, you know, again, quite in the opening of the book, you talk about as you lead into the lenses, you really kind of inspire us to think about three concepts that humans long for, the notions of stability, connection and purpose. And I really just even in kind of soaking in how you describe that through the book, was moving for me. But, you know, it just got me thinking about if we all showed up in this way, like, how can we include these three concepts in our everyday work and relationships? And I know you referenced the lenses too, but you know, we’d love for you to kind of weave in the lenses as you kind of reflect on these three concepts,

Kyle Reyes
No doubt. And so I appreciate you allowing me to kind of kind of discuss the structure of this because, like, I know it can kind of get confused, and you’re like, oh, Kyle, there’s four lenses you cover in the book, but the lenses are the developmental tool to get to some the destination. And what my thesis is as I believe that our humanity is found in our ability to help other humans find three things, right, exactly, a sense of safety and security, a sense of community and belonging, a sense of value and purpose, and that is no more evident than our roles as educators now, again, in the home. I mean, you know, as we think about our own children and our young people that are in our communities, for sure, but I mean, this is. The podcast for educators, right that where we all have a chance to interact with students, and so I think to myself, whatever students are walking through the halls of whatever institution that the listeners are working at, isn’t it? Wouldn’t it be amazing if we all approached our work, whether it’s as a faculty member, as a financial aid advisor, as the president of the university, to approach the work to say, You know what one of my goals is, my one of my goals is to help every student feel these three things authentically on this campus. Oh, and then it extends beyond that, in the community and in life, and in every organization, every new employee that we bring on, first and foremost, can they bring their full selves to the table and feel safe and secure in that. Secondly, can we help them find a sense of community and belonging? And then third, is there a way through this education or work they’re leading towards that deep motivation, their why and why they want to major in this or work in this field, and so for me, that’s the destination. The lenses are just tools, but the destination is to say, Oh, my goodness, can I show up for my own children? Yeah, in every interaction, I’m cognizant of the fact that they fundamentally yearn to be safe and secure. They fundamentally want to belong to our family, to the community we live in, to our ethnic heritages or whatever, and that my role as a mentor in their lives, right? Not only as their father, mentor in their ongoing journey of life, is to help them unpack their purpose. I’m not there to declare what their purpose is, but they have them discover what that purpose is. But if I can put them in and invite them into situations and cultivate and nurture those situations, for them to find that purpose, I believe I’ve lifted their humanity. So it’s a very healing thing for me to think about it in that way.

Mamta Accapadi
It’s so moving because, yeah, I was recently having a conversation with other educators. And, you know, when I worked on a college campus like my, my reflection would be, what are the artifacts of I love you that students see on campus. You know, so when a student walks into a residence hall in whatever email they receive, whatever, whether it’s a student conduct process or it’s a leadership event or a celebration, in any of those conversations, where are those artifacts of I love you? So in the same way that you could do an accessibility audit or a financial audit, could you do an I Love You audit and find those artifacts that when I was reading your piece. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I love you. Is stability, connection and purpose. And so that connection was just, it was a clarity for me that, if you know, if, for those of us as educators, and, of course, members in the community, but on a podcast, for educators to have that nuance of those three areas of stability, connection and purpose, really, just it really captured my heart. So I’m really, really grateful to you. And then I hear you saying that the lenses are a tool, or you said, just a tool. I would maybe remove the just only because I feel that the I think and please correct me, I feel that what the tools allow us to do is to say, here are the ways that we need to engage and be present, or think about our energy like, Here are four different ways for us to then be able to, as you put it, lead us to that out that outcome. And so I needed those tools nuanced in that way. And so as I kind of move into my next question, you know you really, you invited us as readers to consider that that intentional reflection and self analysis are important components to gaining a greater understanding of our worldview, our scripts and our lenses. And then you bring up this concept of lens shifting. Can you talk more about, I mean, the notion of lens shifting, and what that means for us.

Kyle Reyes
Well, thank you, by the way, for the and I accept your edit of just out. And I think part of the reason why I even said that is because I think sometimes people ask, and people have asked me, as I’ve gone and spoken about this and I’ve refined this over the years, they’ve said, oh, so Kyle, you’re an expert. You’ve developed the inner lens like you’re done. I’m just like, ooh, it’s not a destination. The lenses are ongoing journeys, right? They’re on you never because every human interaction is so different, therefore it’s a grow, right? So the lens shifting piece comes from both this passive lens shifting, which is the majority of the time, and then also the intentional lens shifting. I won’t go deeply into the story that I share in the in the book, but, but I share a story wherein, in a very physical way, as I’ve gone to the optometrist I was. Coach to to realize that, you know, I might have 2020 vision today and tomorrow. There’s some going to be some subtle shifts in the way that my eyes work without me realizing it. And when I made the connection between the physical lenses of of how I literally see the world optically, and then the more inner lens of how I see the world, symbolically, how I interpret the world. I realized that, oh, my goodness, the more important lens shift that we should be paying attention to is that deeper subconscious lens that actually frames for us reality. It frames for us what we consider to be good, right, normal or what, we actually start to affix a moral sort of right that if I view the world a certain way, and if I interpret experiences and incidences and incidents and and if I interpret other people in a way, then my interpretation has to be right. It’s gotta be this moral right. And I just think that we need to be more cognizant of the fact that, oh, my goodness, the Mamta five years ago looks at the world very differently than very differently. And it’s not that you are sitting there and saying, You know what, five years ago, I’m gonna deliberately shift my lenses over the next five years. Part of it is just you’ve lived life. You’ve had ups and downs, just like me. And so it’s, it’s less about, it’s less about trying to force the shifting of the lens. And sometimes I argue that you can. That’s why I want to develop the context lens, right? But in terms of being very open to the reflection on your inner lens, it’s more being aware that, Ooh, there’s some dangers in the passive collection of information, that if we don’t check our lenses regularly, our default systems in our brain are going to guide us in ways and have us show up for the world in ways that we haven’t been very intentional About. So that’s that’s that’s a bit about lens shifting.

Mamta Accapadi
Well, you so interesting. And I also won’t kind of go into detail about about, kind of how you, you reference the optometrist visit in the book. I have to tell you, as somebody who recently started wearing glasses on a regular basis after having what one might call bright, pristine vision for whatever, for whatever, that’s supposed to mean. What I noticed, and I never noticed that it was my eyesight that was adjusting, and I just noticed that I was getting crankier, but I didn’t know why I was getting cranky. So I’m like, just grumpy all the time, and it had everything to do with like, needing to get my eyes checked. And what that got me thinking of is, again, that that notion of self examination, right? Like that. That’s, you know, I can’t change how my vision has changed, but what I can change, and what I have a duty of care to, is how I hold myself accountable for self examination. And I think you’re just, you’re you’re just poignant, like weaving of scholarships, storytelling and then academic examples. Just it was just it woven so so well throughout the book like it. Just it read so seamlessly. And I’m just again, abundantly grateful for you kind of inspiring us to think about that.

Mamta Accapadi
Well, thank you so much in that way. And then, you know, the other thing that I feel like I and that I picked up on, you mentioned, there are many points throughout the book where I feel like I hear you talking about energy or emotion invested, you know, whether that’s in spaces of privilege or whether we make the choice. And so I just picked, I just kept picking up on time and motion, energy, actions like and you may not have put that in that order. So I wanted to honor, you know, the way that you phrase it, but that was what just kept coming back to me. And so you really challenged me to think about where I put my time, emotion, energy and actions, and where I do that intentionally, or in some cases because of my own lived experiences, where maybe sometimes, that’s by circumstance that I have to put certain energy and emotion in certain spaces, because I may not feel like I have a choice based on my lived experiences. And then, you know, you bring up, you know, just this idea, of course, of a courageous empathy, really, that asks us to consider these efforts. I am personally concerned. I know that you raise this as well about our national and global loneliness academic. You know, there’s the march 2023, report from the Surgeon General, the World Health Organization that has done reporting on this as well. But you bring this up as like every gender, every subsequent generation, has reported experiencing greater loneliness than the one before it, and in the Surgeon General’s report, they even talk about how that is contributing to polarization across among communities. And so you bring that awareness up to all of us. And I just, I guess my question for you is, how do we shift our energy to address this? And how can we, you know, if. If I’m looking at your book and saying, How do I take this wisdom and how can I leverage my energy to address this very necessary thing? Yeah, how would you guide us?

Kyle Reyes
Yeah, there’s, gosh, there’s, I’ve so many directions I could take that, but let me. Let me see if I can. I’m going to try to cheat here and actually pull all four lenses together, and here we go, whether it lands or not. Don’t tell me. Just say it’s working. I’m actually going to start backwards, and not in that any of these lenses are sequential, but in terms of how I cover them in the book. So to the idea of, if there was one theme that I intentionally wove throughout the book, it was intentionality, right? It was in the inner lens in the context, lens, in empathy, lens and in community lens, we cannot, we cannot develop those lenses unless we set aside a deliberate effort to develop the lenses, just like almost any other skill set, right? We have to practice, we have to exercise those lenses. So intentionality was, was that that thread throughout now, as it relates to your question about, How does you know, considering all these national epidemic, global things going on, what is one way, or, you know, what? What are an approach that we can start to shift that deliberate energy. And so I would start with the community and the community lens, and where the recognition that we’re part of something bigger is a good starting point. When I talk about, when I write about, this epidemic of loneliness, which is not groundbreaking, by the way, I’m just bringing to light whatever. But the reason why I raise it is because without intentionality, we don’t develop the tools to engage and we don’t develop the awareness that community matters. We don’t develop and with each generation and the tools of efficiency and convenience. It doesn’t lend itself for deeper engagement and connection. We just don’t have to the convenience quotient is something that really it’s so dangerous, if not checked, because whether it’s delivering groceries to my home, it’s tweeting something and then not engaging, but just firing back bumper stickers, a little bumper sticker grenades, verbal grenades, if, whether it’s all of these ways that we have, you know, convenience again, amazing, right? Amazing the ways that it saved time and all these things for our lives, but the subtext of it, or the things that, if we’re not careful about, is we it means that I no longer just run into people at the grocery store and find impromptu discussion working from home allows me a greater flexibility and time with my family, But also we’re not just having lunch together as colleagues and and sharing that physical space that is so needed for human connection and the technological tools that we have each generation, with the more sophistication it they don’t need to engage anymore in terms of the nuance of dialog and that nuance of debate, and so backing Then, starting from there, from the community, I think part of the reframing of our energy then is nesting ourselves, like becoming aware that we really need to help the next generations contextually nest themselves in Community. Then as we model, as we model with students that empathy lens as we model as a faculty member, when I show up in my classes that I would teach, and we would engage in controversial conversation, and then students are like trying to retreat. I can see their body language retreating. And then I model a safe way to continue to engage with that healthy dissonance, right to engage with some of that discomfort, because it’s going to help our growth. Let us not let us not forget, as student affairs professionals or as higher education practitioners, that we buy by inherently, we have a position of mentorship. We have the possibility of mentorship and coaching and guidance. And so in each of these lenses, if we start with with our internal lens, then we become more sensitive and we gather more context, and then we model engaging across difference and that empathy, and then we nest ourselves in community that intentionality and that exercise of those of that intentionality, it gives a healing perspective that when these external variables come at us, it helps us calibrate that and it helps us calibrate. Oh, my goodness, an election happened, and whether, no matter how people are processing the outcome of that election, you it helps you calibrate that it doesn’t either save everything or it doesn’t fail everything. It’s another contextual factor that I have to navigate. But guess what, I have practiced that I am going to not allow that to control my energy, because I have, and that perspective comes with the practice of intentionality.

Mamta Accapadi
Yeah, I hadn’t considered intentionality as a practice, right? And we talk about into at least, I have experienced the term intentionality as a or intentional as an adjective, perhaps, but this idea of like it being a practice, like almost a muscle that you can develop and that you need to work on, just like we work on other things, is that’s this are just a really meaningful invitation. I know I am, well, I’m not on a campus anymore. I was like, Oh, that’s a meaningful invitation for me as a parent. Actually, as I navigate teen years here.

Kyle Reyes
I hear you. I hear you. Can I give one quick example that just one quick because this brings it home in terms of my own development of this like Kyle walked so Utah and like many areas of the world, but, I mean, in the nation, but right now Utah is facing because of the growth this traffic along what’s called I 15 corridor, right? So every day we just know we’re going to hit traffic. Well, traffic puts people in a certain mood, okay? It puts people in a certain mood. Now you might be somebody that says, Great, I can listen to Audible I can listen to a podcast. I can listen to that. Or you might be like many of us who are like, Oh my gosh, I just gotta get to my location. I’m wasting time in this traffic. Well, just the other day, I kid you, not just the other day, and I’ve been practicing the intentionality of not allowing some external thing to affect how I’m showing up. Somebody cut me off in traffic, like I was, I, you know, I’m sitting there and driving, and I’m like, Oh, this is nice. And they just whoop and, and I kid you not. I said the ice, the Kyle of old that grew up in LA traffic. I was, I was like, tempted to be like, let me start cussing out person. Let me go. Let me go, pull up next to them and shake my fist and all this stuff and so then. But here’s what I practiced, here’s what I caught. I purposely caused my mind to do. And I kid you not, I did this, and it changed everything. As they cut me off, I just said, I sure hope that whatever they need to get to that they can get there safely, because it could be a family member that they have to get to. It could be that they’re late for an interview. It could be that they just, they’re rage driving because they just had a tragedy in their family. And so I just Yep, they cut me off. And I’m gonna practice this thought work here, that if I change the story, it’s gonna change my whole demeanor for the rest of this drive. And it did. I mean, again, I’m not saying that this is some magical thing. It’s just a simple example that in the smallest things in our life. The rest of that drive, I was just smiling at everybody, you know, we’re all in traffic, and I’m just like, Hey, come on in and get more generous. But oh my goodness, if, if my lenses at that moment were revenge were, oh my gosh, I have to justice, right? They cut me off, so I have to go cut that like it just frames for us our behavior. And so it takes practice, but it can actually impact every aspect of our lives.

Mamta Accapadi
Yeah, and it’s interesting, because again, back to your invitation of intentionality, the month of old. And frankly, that part is still in me that would say choice words if I were, and when I have been cut off, it’s I’m being intentional when I do that too, right? So either way, we’re being intentional, it’s just we’re really securing our agency of how we like that, the agency of choice, right? And if that even makes any kind of sense, and so I really that just means so much to me, because you describe it was a disruption, like there’s a moment that happened, a disruption of an energy that then had to shift a thought, that then shifted an action, right? So back to that energy, action, thought and behavior, right? That continuum that I mean in many spiritual spaces, I think we hear kind of that, that linkage talked about, but I think as as core and as grounded as those concepts are, I think like I just need. That reminder. I needed that reminder because I think at times, when I have been on a campus and even again in life or work in relationships, sometimes I’m like, How does my one tiny action or one tiny like, it’s not going to make a difference, but even the way that I show up or don’t show up in a scenario could make a difference that I may not fully realize or understand. Right? Like, again, it’s not world peace, but the energy that I put out certainly makes a difference for anybody that I interact with or their relationships. And right, there is a ripple effect that I I just love, the invitation to think about, what is the powerful ripple effect that we could co create if we all were working on our lenses.

Kyle Reyes
Well, and you, you brought up something that’s really important that I don’t think I covered enough in the book, but I definitely it definitely warrants it. And that is when you said both actions are intentional, right? I can either intentionally be like, let me get revenge, or I can intentionally try to and my point is, part of this is exactly right. My point is, this book is not just called lenses, right? It’s like, it’s if you want to get better at living a humanity driven life, then it’s intentionality towards humanity that’s the right. Because you’re right. We can be like, Oh, okay, now let me make plans to get revenge on somebody that’s in a very intentional action. But it also is a very base brain reaction, meaning, it’s a, it’s a, it’s

Kyle Reyes
a reaction that says, Oh, I’m okay. Then that I have to write this wrong in some way, or I have to react this way, or I raised, you know, I made a comment in my I made a comment in my staff meeting, and my boss shut me down. And your bra, your brain defaults to, I’m never making a comment again, ever I don’t feel stuff right. And so then you say, Okay, what are some of the mechanisms to not allow what just happened to control how I go back to my staff, just because my boss just shut me down, and you start to say, Well, is there a time and a place where I can approach outside of this setting and just express that, right and be intentional about I’m not going to fight fire with fire, but I’m going to approach this in a way on my terms, because they’ve set up the terms right now, and they’ve controlled the energy. And so for me, if I don’t care about somebody’s humanity, or I don’t I just don’t care about the outcome towards humanity, then let’s just keep reacting. Let’s just keep fighting fire with fire. And that’s fine and but I have had to really check myself time and time again a lot, especially around political seasons, when people come in guns blazing, verbally, verbally, and where I say, Okay, if they’re being, if they’re just being outright bullies or abusive, like I don’t need to stand for that. So I’m not saying that you always have to show up with empathy. But if they’re, if they’re saying something, and I perceive that, that there’s an opportunity here for some growth on both sides. I’ll keep asking questions. I’ll figure I’ll figure out where they’re coming from. I’ll offer up a view and see if they reciprocate. If they don’t, I can check out. But I’ve really tried to practice saying, Okay, that is not they are not the some parts of their declared opinion on said, yeah, exactly. This human being is just so much more complex. And if I’m going to walk the talk of living a more humanity driven life, then I have to believe that, and I have to recognize that they might be misunderstood too, yeah, and that might be reacting in ways that they don’t feel safe. So anyway,

Mamta Accapadi
yeah, I feel, you know, as I hear you reflecting like I also for our listeners and viewers, I want to make very clear that I don’t experience you as saying that any of this work is easy, that this is hard, hard work, right? It’s very hard work. I think I say that because you’re I just think it’s important for me, it’s important to name this your writing is so accessible, right? And so when I read, I’m like, oh yeah. I’m like, I’m like, agreeing with things. And I’m like, Okay, if I could just do that. And I’m like, Oh well, let me try this redirecting of the lens in traffic and see how that and then you realize that even in the mundane moments of our lives, that this is such, like it is really active work, so it’s not easy. I don’t think that you’re saying it’s easy. I also feel back to something that you said that really just got me thinking, like I now work from home as well, so that, you know, it’s been interesting, and I Instacart my groceries, right? You know? So there’s, there’s a whole suite of efficiencies that I have in my life. And I think, I think that may have been the word that you actually used as well. And I’ve been grappling with this idea of what’s missing in. Is we need more embedded inefficiencies. So this work is hard because it’s inefficient. And somewhere along the way, we have forgot like efficiency doesn’t mean more humane or better, right? And I think that in the politics of productivity, we have kind of confused that, and we need more embedded in efficiencies. I think that’s what you’re at so, so the pretend I think about this on campus, right? It’s like, oh, students are being students as they should be on campus. And we go into fix it mode when reconciliation work is much longer than fix it mode, like something that you know, that I may be asked to address that needs to be addressed tomorrow is actually like, no, that might be a semester or a year long conversation. And I know it might feel tough, right? So I think when we’re asked, I think to act in spaces of efficiencies, but the work requires that messiness that you have brought up many times in the book. I think you know, is something that I’m like, how do we how do we come like the embedded efficient inefficiencies are what we need more of to be able to like we seem to play in the mess a little bit.

Kyle Reyes
Yeah, well, I mean, so sad. I love that. In fact. In fact, when you write your book, my friend and we each other, we’re gonna, we’re gonna have an interplay between our books. Because I think you’re exactly right. I hadn’t consider it in terms of that, almost like disrupting the convenience culture, disrupting the efficiency culture, in that deliberate, intentional way, so that you create these opportunities for human connection. One of the things that is part of this conversation, it’s not directly tied, but I’m going to tie it anyway. And that is a what’s lacking in the book, and another area that’s lacking in the book, but I would love to write about down the road, is the notion of that third desire for people to feel a sense of purpose and value is tied to spirituality. And when I say spirituality, I don’t mean some religious dogma, or some, you know, some you know that there’s one right way to do the world. What I’m talking about is connecting with a higher sense of purpose and calling, and leaning into the fact that other human beings are worthy of such investment of that higher calling for them, right? And so how this shows up for us? Then, in this whole convenience disruption of efficiencies, is it, is you and I can have this connection right now we are and every see each other online, we give each other a virtual hug. We do it, yeah, but we also cannot deny that it is still very different than Mamta and Kyle going to lunch and giving each other a physical hug. There is certain transference of and some people might think, you know, we get into this woo, woo space. But I think very much it’s, it’s part of our actual physiological, you know, yes, we and I write about this, we have to be in person, and we have to deliberately chew opt in to to to hybridize our lives and do it in such a way that says, Okay, let’s take some of the efficiencies that come with the flexibility working from home and doing online classes. Oh, but guess what? Even if I teach an online class twice a semester, I’m going to gather everybody in person together just because, like, not even because it ties to the curriculum, but because it ties to learning. Learning is an emotional experience. We think it’s a think it’s an intellectual experience. But every think about the classes you love the most. Why did you love them? Because you, the teacher was passionate. You, resonated. There was a community. You felt challenged, but you also learned. It’s an emotional experience to learn, and so navigating higher education through all the advisors, financial aid, these are emotional navigational experiences. And when we allow students and when we allow each other as staff to start to tap into that sense of purpose. It is no small thing for us to be in person and having dialogs and grabbing lunch together. And I will tell you in you know this, serving as an administrator in higher education now you have no time for lunch. You have no time for your email, no no time for all that stuff. The intentionality is to say, No, I’m deliberately going to build time in to go visit with students. Yeah, I’m going to go, like, visit physically and see and speak to students in person. I’m going to take people to lunch, or at least invite them to join me for lunch. It’s those things that that remind us subconsciously of our humanity, because it’s in those moments where we cannot deny the living breathing space between two humans. And so that’s really powerful.

Mamta Accapadi
Yeah, yeah. So, so well said. You know, I could talk to you for days as you already. Know this. And so I’m going to this is going to be my last question and reflection. You know this, the name of this podcast is student affairs now. And so our last question, we all have a different way that we ask it, but given it’s called Student Affairs now. You know, in our continually increasingly complex higher education environment. What hope and inspiration can you offer our listeners and viewers, just as we continue to move through, move through the messy, yeah,

Kyle Reyes
At a time when legislatures in almost every state are calling for more efficiency, more data, graduating more with less resources, at a time when national and state policies seem to be, well, frankly, Sometimes hostile towards higher education, but definitely, you know, in many ways, losing support for the value of higher education. I think we just need to remind ourselves, and it takes all of us to remind ourselves that this is a human potential profession that we are in, okay, this is not we don’t reduce our work to meaning on the daily basis. Reports go out that show our graduation numbers, retention numbers, those things, but, but we personally shouldn’t reduce our work to some of these just data points our work is found in that that X factor, that that that human magic, that we all, that keeps us in wanting to make a difference in the lives of students. And so I will just say I where I think that hope lies is not in Oh, the innovations for efficiency moving forward for me, where I see the hope line is that we as as practitioners and scholar practitioners, is that we say, how do we recognize that even though students are digital natives, they’re craving for human mentorship, they’re craving for navigational professors, which is what I call student affairs professionals, navigate professors, right? They’re craving for life coaches to help them understand how to navigate these really complex issues and and they’re always looking for educational relevance. And so the more we understand about the world around us, the more we understand about the diverse and rich stories of our students, the more we can continually bring relevance to them and remind them that their higher education experience is just a mere part of their journey, right? Yeah, and so you get to be a part of that, that part of their life story, whether it’s one year or five years, or whatever you’re part of that life story. My hope is not in the efficiencies of policies. My hope lies with the very professionals that we have in, you know, doing the work on the ground in this human potential profession that we have, and I think we have an opportunity to also change the game. What I mean by that is, the more and more that students Gen Z and Gen alpha are coming to higher education, and adult learners are back, and all that stuff, the more and more they’re coming. We have to listen, and we have to listen at the individual and institutional level about what what it means for them to feel that safety and security, what it means for them to feel connected and belonging, that sense of belonging, and what it means for them to find their sense of purpose and value in place. And I think if we listen, we will pick up on a lot of cues for us to change the games at our institutions with dynamic new initiatives that connect people and lean into people’s humanity. So thank you so much, my friend, for letting me share this thought with you. These thoughts with you.

Mamta Accapadi
Oh my gosh. Kyle, thank you so much for your time, your spirit, and I’m going to borrow your phrase and your human magic as a guest on this episode of Student Affairs NOW I also want to take a moment to thank our sponsors, Huron and Routledge Taylor and Francis. We always appreciate your support. Huron is a global professional services firm that collaborates with clients to put possible into practice by creating sound strategies, optimizing operations, accelerating digital transformation and empowering businesses and their people to own their future, by embracing diverse perspectives, encouraging new ideas and challenging the status quo, Huron creates sustainable results. Of the organizations they serve. Routledge Taylor and Francis is the world’s leading academic publisher in education, publishing a wide range of books, journals and other resources for practitioners, faculty, administrators and researchers. They have welcomed Stylus publishing to their publishing program, and are thrilled to enrich their offerings in higher education, teaching, Student Affairs, professional development, assessment and more. Routledge is proud to support Student Affairs NOW view their complete catalog of authoritative education titles at routledge.com backslash education and always much love and a huge shout out to to my dear colleague, Nat Ambrosey, the producer for the podcast, who does all of the behind the scenes work to make us look good and sound good friends. If you’re listening today and not already receiving our weekly newsletter, please do visit our website at studentaffairsnow.com and scroll to the bottom of the homepage to add your email to our MailChimp list while you’re there, please be sure to check out our archives. I’m Mamta Accapadi. Much love and gratitude to everyone who’s watching and listening. Please, my friends, make it a beautiful week that honors your soul, spirit and wisdom. It’s such a gift to be a community with all of you.