J.T. Snipes
Welcome to Here’s the Story, a show that brings Student Affairs to life by sharing the authentic voices and lived experiences of those who are shaping our field every day as a part of the Student Affairs NOW family, we are dedicated to serving and furthering the people who walk the walk, talk, the talk, and carry the rock all of us who find ourselves serving students and their education in student affairs and higher education, we hope you’ll sit with us every Wednesday where we’ll laugh, reminisce, commiserate, maybe even cry a little, but always celebrate our own little corner of the college experience. You can find us at studentaffairsnow.com, or directly at studentaffairsnow.com/here’sthestory, or on YouTube and anywhere you enjoy your podcast. Today, we’d like to thank today’s sponsor evolve. Evolve. Evolve helps senior leaders release fear, gain courage and take action for transformational leadership through a personalized cohort based virtual learning experience, and I’m your host. J.T. Snipes, my pronouns are he him and his? I serve as an Associate Professor and Chair of Educational Leadership at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville. I’m trying my best to live as a free black man in a world that would have me live otherwise. I’m with you today from the ancestral lands of the Kickapoo and the Illinois Confederacy. My university resides on land seated in 1819 treaty in Edwardsville, and is now home to SIUE. I’m here with my wonderful co host, Helena.

Helena Gardner
I’m Helena Gardner, and my pronouns are she, her, hers. I serve as the director of residency, education and housing services at Michigan State University. I live my life as a mom, a sister, a daughter, a friend and a mentor. I’m with you today from the ancestral, traditional and contemporary lands of the Anishinabe, three fires, confederacy of Ojibwa, Ottawa and Potawatomi peoples. The University resides on land seated in the 1819, treaty of Saginaw, and is home to Michigan State University.

J.T. Snipes
Helena. So glad to be with you today. And now I want to introduce my friend Neil, who has a story to tell. But first, Neil, I’d love for you to tell our listeners about how, here’s the story podcast came into being and why we’re doing this project.

Neil E. Golemo
Y’all, I’m so excited that we’re finally, after all the work we’ve been doing, that it’s paying off our first episode. So first I want to say, you know, I’m coming to us from the lands for the COVID The atacap Ishaq and the Karen Kawa people once roamed where they thrived, where they built their lives and left their legacies. And so I’m super excited. I want to remember them for land I’m home. So about this? Okay, so we all know this is a new thing. It’s a, you know, a project, this passion thing that we have. It all started, well, actually, it all started with the joke I used to tell about being the one white guy I know that doesn’t have a podcast. And, you know, it really kind of comes from this idea that, you know, it’s a tough world out there, and in student affairs, it’s just one of those. It’s not a, you know, it’s a calling. It’s not yeah question so much. And it’s tough out there, you know, like we are problem solvers, and so often we’re the ones who get called to clean up messes. Yeah? You know, it’s one of those jobs where, like, when you’re operating at peak, you know, and you’re doing excellent, amazing work, what you’re really doing is you’re taking all your talent and you’re applying it to a situation so that you can keep it from getting worse. Yeah, it’s really, really hard sometimes to celebrate how you kept the disaster from becoming just a full on fiasco. It’s really hard to celebrate that sometimes, yeah, just thankless. Sometimes, yeah, I mean, I think we get thanks, you know. But it’s just, it’s just not the same. Yeah, and I think it’s really, really easy, especially today in this world where we reward cynicism, you know, it’s really, really hard, or maybe it’s easy to get into a rough spot, and it’s hard sometimes to, like, find the good. And the thing is that we all know there’s a ton of good, you know, like we have, we have, we get enough wins, usually, to keep us going. And I think that what we need right now, it’s just kind of a space where we can kind of honor that, you know, I know, talking with us like we want to, you know, put joy at the center, because joy is there, and you can grow a lot of good out of a little bit of joy. Yeah. So, you know, we just want to create space where we could be light and warmth to each other in all the ways that that needs to be.

J.T. Snipes
So, yeah, that’s beautiful. Well, light and warmth, light

J.T. Snipes
and warmth. So,

J.T. Snipes
so, so tell us a little bit about yourself.

Neil E. Golemo
So my name is Neil Golemo PhD. I am blessed to be the Director of Campus Living Learning here at Texas A and M University, Galveston campus, you know, basically more conduct housing and, you know, camps and conferences, all that fun stuff. And you know, I’ve been here for, this will be my 19th fall. And I thought, No way, yeah. I thought I’d be here for three years, just long enough to earn a statue they’re going to put up, you know, and, you know. And I just fell in love. And they keep, keep failing up, really. And so I keep letting you write my ticket. So I love this campus. It’s great. That’s excellent. Yeah, I can’t believe

J.T. Snipes
you’ve been there for 19 years. So

J.T. Snipes
my career is enough to have gone here.

J.T. Snipes
So listeners, Neil and I go way back to undergrad, actually, in the early aughts. So I mean, I guess it has been 19 years, if it goes back to the early aughts, our friendship, we met in college. How I’m sorry I’ve just derailed for a second 19 years. Do you know the stories you’ve seen in the institution? I’m actually getting really excited Alina about Neil’s story.

Helena Gardner
Me too. Me too. Because 19 years like that’s hundreds, hundreds of what would you say, Neil, filling up.

J.T. Snipes
So, so yeah, Neil, if you could tell us, tell us your story.

Neil E. Golemo
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I had to think long argument we’ve been we’re so interested in finding out other people’s stories, you know, what do I have? So alright, you call this one hurricane Hattie and the hamster. So, alright, this is back in 2020, right, late August of 2020, I live in Galveston, and you know, we have had to get really good at dealing with disaster, right, because we are in a disaster prone area, namely, hurricanes. Yeah, my second year here was Hurricane Ike, which just was devastated the entire university. And so since then, we actually relocated for a whole semester to College Station, and that was just to this day. I don’t know if I could ever do that again. And so we’ve had to get really, really good at making plans. And so, you know, we do about once a year we have, like, what we call her occasion, where we have, like, might be a close Miss, you know, the storm that enters the Gulf. And you know, we know we have protocols. We know exactly what we’re going to do if we need to leave and and we’ve gotten pretty good at it. But then you had 2020 Right? Um, 2020 man, it was one of the hardest summers ever. Yeah, late August of you know, I don’t know. I was so scared and so wasn’t sure how I we were going to keep our students safe. You know, we were just operating without a net. And honestly, I had a my first panic attack that summer. I never had one before. And yeah, so we had the pandemic happening, and there’s all this scary. This about, were people going to wear masks and, you know, like, basic things like that. And when you don’t have a grip on that, like, how can you have a grip on anything else? But, you know, leading my department, where all the students live, you know, if there’s going to be an outbreak, it’s going to be there. You know, I just felt all this pressure. So honestly, the story is kind of about how you don’t always have a say. And so, alright, so August 20, I think, was when the storm first it was Hurricane Laura came in. And I don’t know if you what you guys know about hurricane, you know, like, they have that three or two thirds probability cone, and the university, like, where Galveston was, we were on the edge, like we were on the edge of the cone entire time. Like, five days out, it didn’t move. We were on the edge and, like, okay, are we going to get hit, or are we going to not get hit? And it’s kind of dangerous to put people you don’t want to put students on the road if you don’t have to, right? And so we take that really, really seriously. And, you know, it’s just kind of this, are they, aren’t they? And you know, when we got to about three days out, we decided it’s just, it’s not worth taking a chance over. And so we decided to evacuate. So when we evacuate, we go up to College Station, and, you know, usually we’ll rent out, like a hotel or something. And most students go home, or they go home with a friend or a roommate, but we always have about, I don’t know, 75 ish who don’t have where else to go, and so we put them up. And basically, we kind of, like, take over a hotel and make it, you know, tama up north. And, you know, my whole crew, all my housing professionals, and then usually some other professionals from student affairs, they’ll evacuate with us, and we just basically agree reproduce our business up there, and we really concentrate on making sure our students have resources and that they have, as you know, as close to normal as we could. And I’ll tell you, we had COVID, and we always had busses that come down from College Station, and the idea of putting students, wow, in enclosed areas, wow. I’m super proud of the work we did. So I’ll never forget my associate director. She’s my rock. She’s awesome, Sarah, and she’s, you know, a divisive, but mighty woman. And I just, I’ll never forget her leading a whole group of students who are about to hop on this bus and be in close proximity, and like, doing the nose swabs. And she’s like, you’re gonna do this, and then this and, and if you know her, it’s really, it was really, really something, because Sarah didn’t say something unless there’s something to say. And so I just never forget that. And then, you know, for us, my wife, and she’s, she has four people are from Austin, and so the plan was for her to take us, that my daughters to Austin, and be with her family. That way I can just work and I can just, you know, concentrate on that. So we see the students off, and then, basically, when the campus is ready to get shut down, I’m one of the last people leave. And so I run up homes. I live up in America, up in league city, just outside of Houston, and I show up and I’m going, and I’m expecting to see them gone, and my wife’s like, we want to stay with you. And so, you know, what do you say to that? And I’m like, alright, alright, alright, let’s do this, because this is first time we done that together. And so, you know, I get in the car, and literally, like I grabbed my bag and my briefcase and I added to the grocery getter. And I look in the back seat, and I see my oldest, who, at the time, was, how was she? She was seven, seven, and she has this box, like, this Tupperware, this large Tupperware container on her lap. And, you know, what’s that hat? And she said, This is chocolate, my hamster and, and I just remember thinking, and she had a hole at the top. And I just remember thinking like, wow, we don’t need to bring the hamster really, like looking for proper wheat we can do feeder. And, you know, like the part of me that thought, that was not the part that was thinking, because my daughter in this hamster are close, like they are best friends. And, you know, like, I believe in esas because of my daughter’s relationship. To put this hamster. So this hamster named chocolate. So we go to college station, and I’m nervous because, you know, with the lease and every agreement I came up with this, this hotel, it was the a loft hotel in College Station, still a big shout out to them, because they were amazing. Um, actually, now I’m thinking about this mic in trouble. Oh, well. So we have worked out was, you know, we have people who have their animals, and, you know, my whole staff big, like, that’s those, their animals are the babies and so, so I just kind of worked it out where, like, they’re all going to be esas and and, you know, dogs and cats, and they’re pretty specific about that. And then I realized, like, we’re bringing a hamster, like, how is this going to work? And so, you know, there’s so many other things to worry about. I don’t really think about it twice. So we go back, we get everybody set up in the room, and the rooms are not as big as we had hoped, but they were enough. And so we’re sleeping that first night. I don’t know if anybody has kids. Sleeping in a hotel is just a joke. You know, I’m so tired already, but I know I’ve got a lot ahead of me, and so I I made sure, though, that I put my laptop over the top of this hole, and this, this makeshift hamster cage. And I really, I wake up next morning and the laptop has been moved. And so I’m, like, you know what happened? And my, my, you know, seven year old, very matter of factly, says, well, like, well, you know, I chocolate needed air, you know. And, like, I made sure there was there, you know. Like, I’m not inhuman, and I’m just a dad, but so, like, Okay, well, you know, how bad can it be? And I go in there, and, guys, chocolate is not in

Helena Gardner
No, no,

Neil E. Golemo
yeah. It was just like, Okay. And so we’re looking through all the bedding, everything chocolates out there. And so we immediately, and it’s like, six o’clock in the morning. I had like, four hours of sleep, and we are, Oh, my word. I’m thinking, like, I’m trying to think all the stuff we gotta do. And also, this hamster, and I’m not just a hamster, it’s like, my daughter’s best friend. And so we search in the room. We’re tearing it upside down and just nothing. And my wife is being very normal and freaking out and and and I just kind of had to be like, Babe, I’m I gotta, I gotta go. Like, I gotta go and, and, you know, and she, I won’t say what she said, but young and, you know, like, Man, I once again, have to learn to live with your discipline. And so I was going to try and do work. And so I come back, you know, like, three hours later, four hours later, at lunch, and I’m checking on them, and Hattie has started, like she’s She’s asking if she’d go start knocking on doors to see if anybody had I found it, and I thought, oh my god, oh my god, this thing could’ve gotten. I’m looking at the the door frame, and there’s plenty of space for a hamster crawl out. So I started checking the hallways and looking at the rat traps, because you work in how you work in housing, you know how rap trap works, and you know, I’m looking at that, and I’m trying to do it all surreptitiously without being creepy, whatever. And so anyway, so, not happening. Nothing, right? Nothing, no. And so I’m like, Patty, you can’t, you can’t knock on doors. We aren’t the only ones here. Also, nobody knows who you are. You’re just like this little, blonde hair, blue eyed, hyperactive, you know, child, little, you know, and so I go back, you know, once again, had to leave my wife with like this mess. And, you know, I came back a couple hours later. No, actually, somebody come to me and they said, Hey, do you know anything about this? And because Hattie had asked me at lunch to bring back some paper for her to draw on stuff. So yeah, it’s sad. She had multiple help me find my hamster signs and she said reward and she drew a picture of chocolate, which it actually did look like a hamster or a rat, depends. So she made, she made like eight times, and she started putting them up with reward, $20 you know me, I’m going to concentrate on the poor. And stuff. So I was like, Where are you getting $20 you left your wallet, like, I’m the idiot, like you left your wallet. Of course, you wanted me to operate up and so I’m so afraid that the hotel is going to find out that there’s, like, this rat. Because, I mean, if you see this crawl in, you say you have to crawl into your room. What are you going to think it’s a rat? It’s a wrap, right? Normal. It’s like, I’m horrified. I’m just horrified at the University of, you know, like, vacate our lease, because, you know, you always go the worst, worst case scenario, we’re going to get kicked out. You know, me, and there’s about 100 students all together and staff. And it’s like, you know, and meanwhile, this hurricane is bearing down on us and our campus, and we have one of my staff members never been through a hurricane, and just was freaking out, like, freaking out. And so we’re trying to deal with all this like a hurricane within a hurricane. And, you know, and my daughter’s like, just, man, she got the most extreme parts of my wife’s and my personality, like she got my unearned confidence get caught trying work it out, you know, everything’s gonna work out just fine. And then she got my wife’s like sense of direction, or inability to course correct and and so she says, You gotta watch her, and so it’s like, how you can’t do this. You can’t do this. So that evening, I see her literally go up and walk up to the manager, like the hotel branch manager, who I spent more time at that hotel than they had the previous year, just because of us, and just started caring this guy about, like, chocolate, and, you know, I was able to intercept and just kind of, like, play it off and everything. But the same time I’m asking staff, I’m like, Hey, um, without mentioning a rat, like, is anybody seen a rat? Because, you know, they’re not going to tell you that they’ve seen a rap. Like, they’re not going to, you know, right business, and y’all, I was not doing a good job. I just looked like an idiot saying like I was like, I’m not asking about rats. And so obviously that crazy person. And then the next day comes the hurricane, you know, hurricane, Laura just missed us, so we were on that, that edge, that cone, and it could have gone one way or the other, and it ends up hitting, takes a dog like, and it hits Louisiana, and we literally, back on our campus, had, like, some palm fronds that had blown around and stuff, and the weather was actually beautiful. And so we’re starting the whole process, you know, we didn’t have any positive tests. So now we have to kind of do everything in reverse, and then we also have tests during this time. So we’re working out hot spots so students can be on the bus and still have internet access and everything. And so we’re working on all this stuff. And I had this hamster and, you know, Hattie, so this was, like, the day before we now went announced we’re going back. Hattie was like, you know, because it been like two, three days at this point. And Hattie was like, you know, what do we do? Like, you know, where’s chocolate, you know, and, and so I thought I had done, like the dad of the year kind of lies, I said, because she wanted to call all the home, the shelters, all the pet shelters. I said, No, no, babe, people don’t take lost hamsters to the shelters. They take them to the pet stores, because, you know, right, yeah, cuz then in like, he’s like, which one is, like, we just have to go see. We have to go see. So I’m thinking, Okay, we will get a chocolate replacement, you know, like, oh man, you are so freaking smart. And until my daughter started use my wife’s phone to start calling local pet stores. But that’s another thing, and

Helena Gardner
so I’m in love with her,

Neil E. Golemo
but I’ll make you a deal. So it gets to the night before, and my best friend is and my youngest daughter’s Godfather is Joe Hoff. He’s he’s one of the best human beings ever. And of course, because he’s such a good friend, he’s just ripping on me, and he was there helping out and and so we’re texting, it’s about two, it’s about, it’s about the right old videos past bedtime. That’s right. And we’re just like, what are we going to do? Like, what are we going to do? And even Joe’s kind of like, yeah, what are you what are we going to do? And because we’re leaving the next morning, like, we start to load busses at like, seven o’clock in the morning, that’s when we start. And so we’re running out of time, and you know, what are we going to do? And it’s been like, four days at this point. Right? And I’m thinking, this hamster, this hamster is dead, gone, like, There’s no way. And so Hattie says, Well, Dad, can I use the seven year old she, can I use your phone and, you know, kind of look up stuff I want to look at? Or no, she’s like, That’s what she said. She said, can you use your phone and can you google how to find my lost hamster in a hotel. I’m like, sure, you know what? Sure, like, whatever I used up all my good lies. Like, I Okay, sure. And so I do, and I guys, Google will show you anything I’ve seen this YouTube video about how to capture, like, set up a trap for a lost hamster, and it involves making a ramp with food right into a bucket. And apparently hamsters will jump into the bucket, and then, you know? And so I’m like, You know what? I’m just going to, just going to humor her. And my wife is done, like she’s done, and my hero, but she’s just like, done, because we had a seven year old and five year old and and they’re both hyperactive, so at that time, I’m medicated. So I’m like, sure, and we don’t have a ramp. So I have some textbooks. So I was still, you know, I was in my my program at the time, and so I grabbed my textbooks and we had a couple other stuff, and basically, you stack them up into a hotel trash can, right? And, you know, we, we had some food, but we knew it needed to be better than food. Like, I really, you know, if it’s going to get this hamster, we have to really, you know, throw out plot on stops. And so Hattie had snagged some trail mix, and so she had taken on the m&ms. So appropriate, of course. And perfect line, perfect line. And I’m like, okay, in my mind, I’m like, okay, you know, I kind of wrote a check for myself. How am I going to get this, you know? How am I going to break tour in the morning, you know, like, but that’s a problem for four hours from now, Neil and I’m, you know, texting back and forth with Joe on it, and he’s just a floor down, and he’s like, I he’s like, I’m so glad I’m not you. And like, Oh my God. And it’s about two o’clock in the morning. We’re supposed to be up in the office at six, and I know I need sleep, but I just can’t, and I’m standing right next to this ramp, just kind of looking at it. So I’d sent Joe a picture, and, you know, we’re talking and everything, and I just kind of start rubbing my head, and then I hear a sound, and y’all, I look down, and I’m mid text to Joe, I look down and I see this hamster crawl within, like an inch of my foot, and started to go to the first book, and then go to the next book, and Like, up this rant. And I just like, I thought, I thought I was seeing something. I just couldn’t believe it. I told Joe, like, you’re never gonna effing believe this. And I go, and I started to laugh a little bit, I guess. And I go to pick it up, and I was like, you little like, beautiful. And y’all, I looked to the left and like, there’s a seven year old blonde headed, you know, and like her little seven year old mumu with, like, pink, and she just looks at me, and she just held out her hand. She’s like, I told you. And so can

Helena Gardner
she’s doing it. She’s a leader. She is a leader.

Neil E. Golemo
So we put the laptop over the top of this cage, and she, you know, she’s like, she’s like, Oh, chocolate. Mama told Mama knew that she were going to be bad, like, Mama, that you’re going to be back. I knew you’re you know. And then she puts 11 we put the laptop over the hole. And, like, I don’t think I slept at all that night. I heard every single like, and I could not stop looking at that box. And so probably, like, five hours go by, and we start to, you know, meet up in the office and everything, and y’all Hattie, on their way out to the car, held up the you know, Hamster chocolate, this wonder hamster to everybody. I had so many students who just started clapping, yay. You talk to them. She they knew all about I didn’t know they knew about it, but they, apparently, everybody knew about this answer that I was trying so hard to keep surreptitiously, you know, searching for. And you know, I did not fool anybody. And so I swear to God, this hamster got a standing applause, a round of applause for. Everybody in this lobby as Hattie just man. She marched, like, with her head in the air, you know, like, like, Finally, people are giving me the praise I deserve. Like, Hattie is that child just thinks everyone wants to hear her sing. And, you know, she’s just and so, like, for the rest of my life, like, I will never, ever, ever forget like that, feeling like I wasn’t even sure what we’ve been through? You know, usually I would be stressed, freaked out, worried about every single student, and I was, but I had this whole experience they just kind of underscored it. And at first I was upset with my my wife for change the plan. You know, I don’t know, to this day, it’s one of my favorite stories ever. And you know, life provides if you let it. So there you go, that’s, that’s my story.

J.T. Snipes
Top that. JT,

Helena Gardner
that’s wild. That is wild because in the midst of everything else you were managing, yeah, like you’re looking over your shoulder, like, oh, okay, okay, we’ll find it. We’ll find it, yeah. And that little baby found that hamster, Mm, hmm. And

Neil E. Golemo
the joke has always been like, every time a hurricane enters the Gulf, like, you know, we ended up winning an award, you know. And you know, we did some of our very best work. And you know, you have to problem solve so much when you’re there, like you can find the bus routes, making sure all students have access to everything that they need. I also say, you know, that was such a hard time, but the hard part was the worry when it actually came to it, you know, we never had to tell a student to put on a mask. You know, we were so afraid, and some of them did not want to wear masks, and they were made up known, but they never fought us, and they did it, and they did it out of service to each other. And, you know, like every time people like dog owner students or dog on students at all, so easy to think of the worst case scenario. And you know, the ones that step out, and it’s hard sometimes to notice all of them that don’t and that do care. And, you know, I, part of me loves that kind of thing with that, because you, you might see the worst of people, but you’ll definitely get to see the best too.

Helena Gardner
Yeah, yeah.

J.T. Snipes
And beautiful story

Helena Gardner
that was beautiful.

J.T. Snipes
I am. I’m curious about, Gosh, has had he heard the story of retelling of the story? Because that was a few years ago. Now, what did, what does she think about the story and herself? Great question. Protagonist.

Neil E. Golemo
I mean, Hattie thinks every story is about her. Really lovely. She gets that from me. Let me be let me be clear on that. And so she still talks about chocolate, you know, like, you know, chocolate. You know, hamsters live about a couple of years, right? And a year into, yeah, his journey at that point. And we’ve since had another hamster, but no one was like chocolate. Chocolate was truly special. And I used to call it the rat, because I, you know, I became my father. We all become our father, just really, and, you know, I caught the rat. And she, man, even I like that, that little guy, and, and so, yeah, she, she thinks it’s great. She but like, she sees the story differently. She sees a story about her believing and being right in me, taking my time and just seeing the rightness.

Helena Gardner
I can see that for her. I can see it and and what I really see is that you say you passed on like that, she’s a main character energy, but you also passed on that confidence and problem solving. Yeah, and she and her and her sweet little life was like, Google that, Google that let me, let me, let me help you, and then you trusted her in return. And chocolate was like, I just have been waiting for some snacks. She’s been here all these days without. Snacks. I just needed some snacks. It’s a wonderful story. Neil was wonderful,

Neil E. Golemo
and I was just so, you know, I don’t know, since such go command mode and, you know, we control nothing, you guys like we control nothing. And I just, y’all, I cannot believe. I cannot believe, I mean, it walked right by me, like, I mean, literally, by my I remember seeing it walk near my bare toes, like grabbing trail next, as it were.

J.T. Snipes
I love this story too, because it, it’s so it’s so real, right? Like, it magnifies some of the pressures that we’re under, yeah, on a daily basis, yeah?

Helena Gardner
Like, that duality, right? Like, you got your work life, you got your home life, and you were leading in both. Hattie was, Hattie was leading.

Neil E. Golemo
Well, you know what? She’s not, she wasn’t wrong. That’s, you know,

J.T. Snipes
yeah, I mean, I guess I’m curious too, like when you share this story, what? What do you hope professionals who are really in a struggle to balance being a full human being with heavy workloads and family or other commitments that are really important to them. What? What does this story remind you of? Yeah, relation to those things. So

Neil E. Golemo
I’ll tell you that, like, you know, we are human all the time, like even we’re trying to act something else, we’re still human. And, you know, life happens to you, and there’s very little that you can actually control, and so focus on that. And then I don’t know a little faith, little faith that, I mean, if we can all have the faith of a seven year old girl, yes, and, yeah, yeah, I was leading, you know, through all of this and everything. But honestly, I think my dad would say, you know, I had my head in a certain place, or, you know, I was my brother, you know, yeah, yeah. And, you know, I just love how the universe knocks us down a notch when we need it the most. And that’s a word. Mm, hmm, yeah. And so, you know, my, my whole mantra is, like, is get caught trying, like we’re going to make mistakes where, you know, but you gotta try. You gotta try and and, you know, the success doesn’t matter. Learning does. And so, because learning is forever Frank,

Helena Gardner
yeah, and

Neil E. Golemo
so, yeah, like, I feel like that is something right, I try to think of but yeah, a particular co worker is just, he still tells me this is his children’s book, so I’ll add it to the projects that.

Helena Gardner
Yeah, so excellent children’s story. And I think I’m going to take away from that exactly what you said, like, you know, yeah, we’re leading, but life will still happen. Life is still happening all around us, and that’s the real world, right? Patty was living in the real world and you were at work.

Neil E. Golemo
No, that’s true. That’s true. Yeah,

Helena Gardner
brilliant. I still

Neil E. Golemo
think the, I still think that’s the best lie ever told, because the the hamsters are returned to the pet stores. I think that that was, I’ll never do a better one than that.

Helena Gardner
Yeah, that’s really good. And I think here’s what you’re going to find out. Years from now, she’s going to be like, you can’t call the store and find them that like that. When you said that, I knew that that wasn’t it, but what it did for her, I definitely feel like she was like, You know what? I have an idea. Yeah,

J.T. Snipes
I love that. Me too. So you know, like it’s good.

J.T. Snipes
Oh Neil, we could talk with you forever, but unfortunately, we got to wrap this thing up, so we want to thank you again for being our first guest and hopefully continued host to here’s the story podcast. Thanks again for sharing your joy with us also. Thanks again to our sponsor, evolve. Evolve. Evolve helps senior leaders who value aspire to lead on and want to unleash their potential for belonging and transformational leadership. Our own Dr Keith Edwards, alongside doctors Brian Arao and Dom Lee, offer a personalized experience with high impact value the asynchronous content and six individual and six group coaching sessions. Maximize your learning and growth with a focus time investment greatly enhancing your ability to lead powerfully for social change. This has been here’s the story, part of the Student Affairs NOW, family, please join us on Wednesdays to laugh, cry, learn, sometimes commiserate and always celebrate being a part of the Student Affairs experience. If you have a story, and we all do have a story, please consider sharing it with us by leaving a two minute pitch via voice file at the studentaffairsnow.com website. Every story is welcome and every earnest perspective is worthy, and even if you don’t feel like sharing yours, you can still find ours on and others at Student Affairs now.com on YouTube, smash that subscribe button and anywhere you listen to podcast. Uh, this episode has been edited by Nat Ambrosey Thank you for making us look and sound good as we do. I’m your host. JT Snipes, hey, I’m Helena Gardner. We hope this has fled your flame a little bit, because your light matters. Keep using it to make the world a brighter place. Until next time.