Ray Gasser:
I would reiterate you know, point that was made earlier, I think by Juan was make sure you tell your story, be accessible, you know, get it out there. Like people need to know who you are and, and the path that you came, you know, like I use examples from, from my experience all the time, because, you know, I, I still look back and the fact that I was able to write 150 page dissertation to me, like, you know, I’ll never, I’ll never do anything like that again, but by gosh, you know, the fact that I was able to do that.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Hello, and welcome to Student Affairs NOW. I’m your host, Dr. Glenn DeGuzman. In today’s episode, I’m excited to be joined by panel to discuss their experiences as first generation professionals in student affairs and higher education. For this conversation first-generation professionals are the first in their immediate family to enter the professional work environment. And this is in contrast to their parents who may have held traditional blue collar work or jobs that didn’t require a college education. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and online learning community for thousands of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs, we release new episodes every week on Wednesdays. You can find out more details about this episode or browse our archives at studentaffairsnow.com.

Glenn DeGuzman:
And before we jump into conversation, I want to acknowledge that today’s bonus episode is sponsored by Colorado State University Online. Go Rams, They are now offering a fully online Master of Science in Student Affairs. This program will help you gain the professional competencies, knowledge, and experience to succeed as a higher education administrator. You will earn the same master’s degree and learn from the same FACULTY as CSU’s on-campus students. Learn more at online.colostate.edu.

Glenn DeGuzman:
As I mentioned on your host, Glenn DeGuzman, the associate Dean of students and director of residential life at the University of California, Berkeley, I used the he series is my pronouns. I’m hosting this conversation today from my home in Livermore, California, which is the ancestral home of the unseated territory of the Pellman tribe of the Aloni peoples. This is a two-part series for first-generation experience and this podcast is going to focus in on the first generation professional experiences.

Glenn DeGuzman:
And I’m excited because this is a special episode. I’m reconnecting with folks I’ve known for a very long time. So let’s meet our panelists. We have Daisy Rodriguez Pitel, a consultant who is changing the world Juan Guardia from the University of Cincinnati and Ray Gasser from Michigan State University. Welcome. Let’s get to know our panelists a little bit better. So I’m going to have them introduce themselves and more fully. And it’s going to give you an opportunity to share maybe your current position and your, your connection to the topic on first-generation professionals. So let’s start with Juan.

Juan R. Guardia:
Good, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Dr. Juan Guardia. I serve as assistant vice president for student affairs and Dean of students at the University of Cincinnati, which is their traditional lands that are Miami tribes here in the Southwest Ohio. I, myself am a first-generation college student. I’m excited to be part of this podcast with my fellow first gen peers and looking forward to the experience of the conversation.

Glenn DeGuzman:
And thank you. Welcome.

Juan R. Guardia:
I utilize he, him, his, my apologies.

Glenn DeGuzman:
No Worries. No worries, Juan. Great to have you on the panel. Daisy.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
Hello. Thank you so much for having me. My name is Dr. Daisy Rodriguez Pitel. My pronouns are she her & hers. My both of my parents immigrated to the United States from the Philippines and my dad grew up in a family of seven siblings where they couldn’t afford to send their children to college. And my mom did experience college in the Philippines and earned a nursing degree. And I consider myself a first generation student because even though my mom earned a degree in the Philippines, she had very little to no understanding of the higher education process in the United States. It’s really interesting since birth, I was told that I would go to college and when I was in high school, my high school government teacher told me that I needed to find other options because I don’t belong in college. And I think it’s interesting. When we are told that this is our path and someone else tries to discourage us from it. So I look forward to being here and sharing more of my narrative as a first gen professional.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you, Daisy. And I, and I’ve known you for, I mean, I know all of you for a long time and actually Daisy, you’re first-generation Filipina American experience is something I really resonated and connected with, with you when we first met. So I’m excited to have you on, Ray welcome.

Ray Gasser:
Well, thank you. Thank you for having me, Glenn. My name is Ray Gasser. I use the he him series pronouns. I humbly serve as the executive director for residence education and housing services at Michigan State University. I think one of the things that that connects me to this topic is I remember, I remember distinctly when I was leaving for college. My dad telling me, you know, I don’t care what you do. I just need you to be in a desk at a desk and not doing physical manual labor like I do. And so for me you know, I’m not, I’m not sure my dad ever understood the career that I went into, but I’m at least living up to the idea that I’m working at a desk here in East Lansing today.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you right. For sharing. That’s a really cool way to start and I want to stay with you and maybe we can kind of go deeper into that story in particular. What does it mean to you to be first-generation professional, if you could, if you could share with our audience and what does that look like in particular for first-generation professionals who are going into higher education or into a student affairs type of position?

Ray Gasser:
Yeah, I think you know, first off I’m, I’m incredibly proud of my accomplishments and you know, the accomplishments of all first-generation professionals because we kind of have to map out our own course to work through the challenges of going through higher education and not understanding, you know, I remember distinctly when, when I was signing up for financial aid and I received financial aid package, I didn’t know the difference between the types of aid and I accepted things, not knowing what ones I had to pay back and what ones I didnt. And I remember when I started my master’s program, not understanding what I was really actually signing up for. I just knew that I liked the work that I was doing. But I didn’t really understand what, what student affairs was at the time. It took me a few weeks into the program before I really understood, oh, wow.

Ray Gasser:
They actually have a profession. I just thought this was a chance to go to work. And, and then when I got into my career professionally, it, it’s really kind of finding that trust in yourself and finding good mentors to really help you, help you navigate some of the pitfalls that I think whether you’re first generation or not, that you’re bound to make, so that, that you can be successful and continue to progress as a professional. When, when I really had no one at home that, that kind of gave me that type of guidance. So,

Glenn DeGuzman:
Wow. I remember thinking that’s, that’s residential life Western first. I didn’t know. There was a bigger thing and I just didn’t know. And really didn’t know for a long time until I started, I started talking to other folks, Daisy, Juan, any thoughts reflections on that?

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
Yeah, actually, as I listened to Ray, one of the words for me that cames comes to mind being a first gen student and a first generation professional is being a pioneer and being the first. And so with me that comes with, that comes a lot of responsibility. And so I grew up again in a Filipino household. My father was very strict and my mom was less strict. So for me, when I off at college, I attended San Francisco State University. It was very exciting and exhilarating, and I felt like this was my opportunity to experience some level of freedom and independence and to make decisions. And so I was a really highly motivated student. But with that said, I wasn’t aware of any of the support services. I didn’t understand. I completely can hear what Ray is saying, I didn’t understand financial aid and my father was stationed in your Koska Japan.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
And so my closest family member was my older sister, Mylean, who went to UC Berkeley. So for me, I lived in the residence halls for my entire four year undergraduate experience and residence life was student affairs. And that is where I considered like my home and where I transformed and where I discovered what it means to be a leader and where I discovered to have a voice. I think it’s really interesting when you are a first generation student. You have to be resilient because there’s so much that you need to learn and figure out on your own. And then when you come across those mentors, that’s when you really begin to learn that it’s okay to ask for help. It’s not a sign of failure. It’s not a sign of weakness. It’s really a sign of strength to recognize that there are folks out there who will support you.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
And there are two people for me that come to mind and one is Dan McKibben and Damon Bell, and they both were residence life professionals who really encouraged me and validated who I was and, and helped me to see my own value. So I’m really grateful for, for those folks. And I also think about the peer mentors and the resident assistants that also provided me support and guidance and validation. I mean, for me, that, that is really huge. Especially when you’re feeling alone and isolated to be around folks who, who see you and don’t try to necessarily change you, but help you to find your path. So that’s a little bit of what came to mind for me as I was listening to Ray.

Juan R. Guardia:
Our definitely resonate with what both Ray and Daisy have been sharing with regards to being that first. So from my familial background, my parents came from in the 1960s and they made a family for themselves in South Florida, Miami in particular where my brother and I were born we, I was the first, I’ve been the first in that essence. And when, even when I was applying to colleges, they could, my parents had no college knowledge whatsoever. And so I went to the local community college. I went to Miami Dade Community College. It’s now known as Miami Dade College. You know, Ray mentioned talking about applying for financial aid. I remember I just applying and having my parents, my parents could not understand the paperwork. And I say, just sign here there’s free money. And my mom was like, okay, I’ll sign it because that’ll be an opportunity for you to go to school.

Juan R. Guardia:
Right. in hindsight, that was probably the best experience I could have had to be at a large, a two year institution. I didn’t even know as a Hispanic serving institution. Cause everybody in Miami-Dade looked Latino like everyone else in south Florida in Miami. Right. But a majority of us were first gen. And so we were in the midst of all, trying to figure out what this college experience look like and finishing up my and then not telling my parents that I applied to go to Florida State, which is about seven and a half hours north. My parent, my dad was, my dad was very cool. Like, okay, you know, this is my son. He can go away, my mother bawled and cried. And you know, why do you need to go away so far? Why can’t you just go to FIU down the road?

Juan R. Guardia:
It’s, you know, only about twenty-five minutes away. But I went there because it’s where my major was that it was the only college in the state that offered my major. Knowing that I was the first in that, in that did have, I had to become resilient. I had no other choice and really get to know and find other communities on both campuses, both when I was at Dade and also at Florida State when I transferred. I would say that those experiences also have really shaped who I am as a student affairs professional on the campuses that I’ve worked at, the students that I’ve had the opportunity to engage in work with, whether it be advising and or providing resources, support services, and things of that effect. It’s made me a better professional because that young one from back in the day from Homestead, Florida would have never have imagined ever leaving Miami Dade county. 22 years later, I’ve lived in six states, been at five different institutions. And it really was because Dade opened that door for me as a first gen. And so I always continuously tell my students, I love that you’re here, go out of state after this go to grad school somewhere else outside of your home state and look at it from a lens of a very different experience.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Oh my goodness. I am so resonating with your stories as well. I’m curious to hear more about your experiences and this is for all on the panel that if we can, I’m curious to hear about the challenges and the obstacles that you may have experienced as a first-generation student that carried over to when you became a professional or is it something completely different? Like the difference between being a first gen student and then becoming a first gen professional Daisy would, do you want to kick us off on this one?

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
Sure. And I, you know, as, as I think about that, Glenn, I think naively, I believe as an undergraduate that I could do anything. And, and, and it’s interesting because when I started off in my first higher ed position, I didn’t feel that way at all. I actually lacked confidence. And I think about my first experience I worked for Weaver State University. I was offered a position to be the coordinator of a brand new diversity center. And I thought, I am already starting off with my dream job after my master’s degree, I earned my master’s degree at NYU. And a lot of folks that, why are you moving to Utah? Like you went to San Francisco State than NYU. And I thought, well, if I moved to Utah and I do well there, then I could work anywhere. Right? So I wanted to challenge myself to be in a different climate, a different environment.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
And when I was offered this job to run the inaugural diversity center before my position started, the Dean of students called me and said, Daisy, we have a fantastic candidate. And the only job he’ll accept is a job we offered you. And they said, we have another exciting opportunity for you to be the coordinator of student programs. And, you know, you talked to me about all of the different roles and responsibilities and how exciting it would be. And I didn’t want to accept that job because I wanted to be the first inaugural lead for this diversity center. But this Dean of students convinced me that I really needed to give this opportunity to this other person because this other person was going to add to the student affairs team and I needed to do that. And and in hindsight, I wish I didn’t, but that’s one of the lessons that I learned is you can stand up to someone who’s in a higher level than you and say no, right?

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
I mean, I was offered the position. And and I think about now how throughout my career, I have learned to be a better advocate for myself and a better advocate for others and especially folks who may not be as brave and may not see their worth. So it’s really interesting Glenn because I was like, I was a force in undergrad. I, I think having taken ethnic studies classes and Filipino American studies classes, I really grew to be just a very strong leader. I think I I’m really grateful for the amount of support that I had around me at San Francisco State. I think about, you know, the residence hall staff and the RAs that I worked with and the different student organizations that I was a part of. It was an environment that really instilled your value. And it’s interesting that after going through my master’s program and then starting off in student affairs, that I just felt so weak and so vulnerable, and I didn’t have that same structure of support,

Glenn DeGuzman:
What a very powerful experience that you have to go through. I mean, I, it’s interesting to, to hear that and how that’s, you know, I can almost connect to that, how I felt like I was so active, I felt so confident. And then when, when I took on my first position, I remember also experiencing experiences, interacting with people who it almost like broke my confidence to some extent, right. It’s really powerful Juan, Ray. And we want to add,

Ray Gasser:
I’ll add one piece to Daisy’s sharing that is just the, the one sense that I’ve grown. And, and I continue to talk to my team about this even today is the sense of humility that, that first-generation professionals and college students have to have. They go into the work having the sense of self doubt and yet you know, I also think that there’s so much to learn from going into the work in a humble sort of way, where you acknowledge that you don’t necessarily have all the answers. And I actually think that sometimes puts us in a, a better position to engage a team, engage colleagues from across campus to be able to approach the work from a humble sense, because, because that’s really when the best outcomes come out of a process or, or you know, whatever we’re trying to do because you don’t, you’re not coming into it saying I have an agenda.

Ray Gasser:
This is what I want to accomplish. You acknowledge that, that the team’s probably going to come up with the best answer. And so I just, when I, when I heard Daisy sharing that I, that that was the thing that was resonating for me was the tremendous amount of humility that, that Daisy had to say that. And I also agree at the same time that, you know, sometimes you have to push back and, and, and stand up for you know, something that you value, something that you believe in that’s why you were invited to to that position to begin with. So thanks for sharing Daisy.

Juan R. Guardia:
Thank you. I’ll add that for me. It was leading into my graduate program. So after undergrad, I took a few years off and then decided to go back to grad school and higher ed. And it really was because of one of my mentors at Miami Dade college that told me you were Uber involved at Dade and at Florida State, why don’t you do a career in student affairs work? And I was one of those that did not know that it existed as a career. So she really opened up my eyes for that going back, and I ended up going back to my Alma mater at Florida State because they have a really phenomenal grad programs. So why not? Right. but it was a really good experience. What prepared me for that was in the midst of that. I had already applied a few years before that for another different graduate program.

Juan R. Guardia:
Totally not in higher ed. And when I was rejected from that graduate program, that graduate advisor told me that I was not graduate school material. And so hearing that post completing your undergraduate degree, it, it shook me to my core and I was super nervous in applying for my graduate programs and so forth. And I, and took, be told, I bombed the GRE. The GRE is the worst. I took it three times. It’s it doesn’t make any sense. I’m just not a good test-taker exactly. It’s what I’m here applying to the FSU grad program. I’m like, y’all, if they’re going to look at my scores, it’s a done deal. Luckily they were holistic. I’m looking at the package and so forth. I always appreciate them for that. But in the midst of that experience, there were times in my graduate program.

Juan R. Guardia:
And even when I finished up my master’s that that imposter syndrome always would sit in my cohort. My master’s cohort was small. We were only 14. Interestingly enough, it was divided seven men, seven women. I don’t think it was set up that way. It’s just how the cards fell. I was only one of two Latinos in that program and the two of us were from Miami. And so we will rely on each other and, you know, she did not go to FSU as an undergrad. So I would let her know what, you know, Tallahassee’s experience in a row and so forth, but we would talk about it all the time, you know, what’s it like to be at this large PWI? And should I be in this master’s program? You know, I’m glad we were selected, but you know, that would always would creep in. And even after graduating as I’m thinking back to my family, you know, my mom, my dad worked a variety of jobs.

Juan R. Guardia:
When I was young, the last job he had all the way up to his retirement. He was a delivery driver for a factory in south Florida. My mom was a full time homemaker. And then on, usually when we were in school and on the weekends she was a housekeeper. She would clean folks’ houses, whether it be friends’ houses or maybe some offices taking me and my brother-in-law’s sometimes, and applying for those positions, post masters, I didn’t know how to negotiate salary. My parents couldn’t explain to me how to negotiate salary. I didn’t know what that looked like. And that first job out of my master’s was in Northern Virginia at George Mason University. And I was the only time in my career. I’ve never negotiated because he offered and I was like, well, I got to take this job. And I took it.

Juan R. Guardia:
And in hindsight, I’m thinking this is crazy $35,000 in Northern Virginia, right outside of DC is not cutting. It’s not pay the bills. Y’all. but that was also the resilient, brave first step. I had never left Florida, and I was 28 taking this job for the first time. And I’ll never forget driving across the state line. I’m balling because everybody I knew was in Florida. And I’m like, why am I leaning forward to take some job in Virginia? It was the best thing I could’ve done because it opened up my eyes to a whole different world. Not only not only within the field, but also the different parts of the country that I will live in eventually and so forth. I will add one additional thing with regards to both Ray and Daisy talked about humility when I was first offered later on down the road when I was offered an AVP position that, that was the first time ever that I was offered a six figure salary.

Juan R. Guardia:
And when I was offered it, I remember hanging up and I felt very guilty. I started tearing up because I felt guilty that I was making more money than my parents had ever made in their life. And as a first gen. So think about it from that lens. I remember calling my mom, my parents divorced later on. I called my mom and I called my dad separately. And I said to them, and they were over the moon, but that guilt, knowing that they had, they had worked so hard. And that’s what they told me. Like, you’ve worked so hard to get to where you’re at. You deserve this really just struck a chord because the way I would see my father come home from work the way I was, see my mom come home from cleaning houses and so forth. Yes, I was proud of that moment, but it hit me really caught that my core because affectionately, mommy and pappy had worked so hard and I knew it was more than what they had ever made in their lifetime.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Wow. Thank you, Juan. Yeah. Each I’m just hearing all your stories and each of you have had to overcome, you know, various challenges and there’s a lot of similarities too, right? That, that have accompany your experience to reach outstanding, your outstanding, with all of you, you know, all of you have reached all attain your doctorates and and these challenges that I heard, what I, what I heard were gatekeepers in your experience? standardized tests. Oh my goodness. I, I understand that feeling of isolation the guilt of just moving away from family and just wanting to be near to support and just the mental, mental gymnastics that must be going on into the psyche of what it means to be a first-generation person. And, going into a professional career. I’m curious if you think about today’s and, or I guess you can call it the next next generation of professionals, right. What do you think they’re experiencing now? Is it similar or different than from what maybe we’ve gone through as a, as they enter the workforce?

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
Glenn, can I add something before we go on to that question? Cause I it’s really important what Juan brought up about the GRE because standardized tests are not a barrier. And I want to say that again, it’s not always tests are not a barrier. I also felt like an imposter because I had to take the GRE twice and I was conditionally admitted, admitted into my master’s program. And I had to earn a 3.5 GPA or higher. And I did. And I think about when I applied for my doctorate and looked at different programs, I had to take the GRE again and I didn’t do well. I’ve never done well on the SAT I did horribly. And I try to share with students to not let that be a psychological barrier, cause you can still be successful. You can earn an advanced degree.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
And I think about when I was conditionally admitted into Indiana University, I knew I would earn a 3.5 GPA or higher in my first semester. And so it’s really interesting, like the self-talk you have to have with yourself and put aside whatever messages you might be hearing about how you can not do X, Y, and Z. And you cannot earn a degree because you can’t take standardized tests. Well, I mean and it’s interesting because my son is in eighth grade and he’s starting to take standardized tests and he doesn’t do well. And he’s like, mom, I’m not going to be able to go to college. And I tell him, son, your mother earned three degrees. I never did well on any of those tests. I’m like, you can, and you have to believe in yourself. And so thank you Juan, for sharing that because it’s such a misconception. So thank you for bringing that up. Yeah.

Glenn DeGuzman:
It’s an interesting, my daughter is taking her PSATs tomorrow and it’s really interesting cause this is gonna be the first time she’s ever taken a standardized test and with COVID last year, everything got canceled. So it’s sorta like, okay, this will be really interesting to see how she experiences that, but let’s, let’s keep going on along those lines. I mean, I think you bring up a really interesting point there, Daisy about self-talk what is the self-talk that’s occurring in the first professionals who are about to enter the workforce? Is it similar to, is it the same thing? Is it different?

Glenn DeGuzman:
I sometimes wonder if, when we think about the first generation professionals or entering student affairs, I know when I, when I speak to new professionals and I’m able to identify that they have a first-generation background, I sometimes want to just meet with them and talk to them, just talk about the things that they’re going through. You know, it’s, it’s an interesting dynamic trying to provide space, but at the same time, trying to just wanting to be helpful. But I, I’m always curious to know like what are the experiences that they’re going through and if it was similar to mine and I find connection with this group, because I think we’re, we, we all entered similar timeframe, but I’m wondering about today’s generation.

Juan R. Guardia:
I know I’ve had conversations with first gen professionals and I always tell them, you’re offering this position. Great. This is exactly what you want to do. It’s in a brand new institution, it’s a brand new city but you can’t let your job be your life. Like I want you to understand that there’s, I want you to have a really good experience outside of work. And for a lot of first gen professionals, it could be, you know, how do I survive at this new institution? How do I make do relationships and connections outside of work, where I can make other friend networks and so forth cause it can get really isolating. You could come to work all day and enjoy what you’re doing, but when you clock off, there’s no one for you to connect with. It can get to become a really isolated experience. And so really making, finding ways to connect them with either other first gen professionals and or mentors across the division or across campus. To me is it’s a really fruitful opportunity for them to engage and get to know some other folks that have may have gone through the similar experiences.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
You know, what Glenn, I think about the differences between first gen professionals now and first gen professionals for us like 25 years ago. Right. I had a young man who graduated from Brown for undergrad and is currently at Columbia working on his student affairs degree and he reached out to me through LinkedIn and he said, I need connection. And he really liked my background because he’s interested in international education and study abroad programs. And so he and I have been communicating with each other throughout this pandemic. And I wonder how many other folks similar to this young man are reaching out to people virtually, right? Because they have that opportunity to really be resourceful and to establish connections with people across the United States. And, and I think about how luxurious that could be because we didn’t have that, right.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
Like we connected with people in our own sphere which I am grateful because I’m very grateful for the standing committee for multicultural affairs through ACPA, because that’s where I feel like I was able to create a community. And I think about Glenn and how we did this Filipino dance at an ACPA culture Fest. And, and I remember like staying up late at night and writing rhymes with Glenn and other folks within the Asian Pacific American network. And there is just beauty in that. And I feel like that foundation has kept us all connected. So regardless of the 10, 15, 20, 25 years that have passed when we see each other, it’s like this intrinsic connection that just, it’s just this electrifying force. And so I hope that this new generation of professionals experience that.

Ray Gasser:
So, one thing that your question Glenn made me think of is, is when I, when I first started as, as a professional and I don’t know whether or not this is what today’s generation is experiencing. I think in some of my conversations with some of my team members it sounds similar, but I don’t know for sure whether or not this is what resonates with them. It’s you come out of your master’s program and, and I think you have this sense of idealism. Particularly as a first-generation student, you have this, I want to change the world. I want to make sure that every first-generation student or every, every student of color is able to get to where I am. And and then you kind of get slapped in the face. I did my first position.

Ray Gasser:
I went to, and I was so frustrated with it. And I see this sometimes with our professionals today. They get so frustrated and one of the things that a few years ago, I got to be on faculty with the national housing training Institute. And I was talking to one of the other faculty members, and we were reflecting back on our first professional positions, which happened to be at the same school. We just were there at slightly different times in the nineties. And we both said, you know, we found it so frustrating and found the director so frustrated didn’t know why she made the decisions that she made, like they were always wrong. But then we agreed that today in the positions that we’re in, we would have made those same decisions. The only problem was that she just never explained why.

Ray Gasser:
And I think that’s something really important with our younger professionals is to make sure that they understand the why the, why we have to do things that we do, even though it may not resonate with where our values are. It may be just where that institution is at that time. It may be, you know, other political forces that, that play a part in that. And yet still trying to push the barriers. And so I, you know, I, I see that something as you know, maybe a constant between our generation and today’s generation of first gens.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Great point, great point. Thank you, Ray, for adding that I have seen so much since my time to help that a lot of resources to help first-generation students thrive on college campuses, and I’m not sure if campuses do much or at least explicit do as much to support first-generation professionals. I think that since my time, you know, going back from the day, I’ve seen some wonderful resources pop up through NASPA ACPA that support the first generation student, like the first generation forward. I’ve seen a lot of social media, a lot of different, wonderful resources, which man, I wish they were around when I was younger, but I’m curious to know what campuses can do institutionally to support first-generation professionals. And I’m going to direct this question to Juan.

Juan R. Guardia:
That’s a great question because you’re right. We do have a variety of programs and services and better students. I mean, here at UC, we have a gen one living, learning community. That’s all first gen students. They absolutely love it. It gives them an opportunity to be connected with their fellow first gens to have additional advising. They have additional tutoring and district just additional programs and services that we probably did not have as gen one students ourselves. Right. So that’s great. But for our pros and our pro staff, it’s okay, well, here’s who we are in the division. You may or may not be first gen. And most folks don’t outwardly say, Hey, my name is Juan. I’m a gen one. Plus I’m this, this and this, you know, there could be a variety of identities that we could all speak all at one time.

Juan R. Guardia:
But until we started getting to those individuals, and then we get to know a little bit more about their backgrounds and they do share that information. I think it’s up to us those, those of us that work on campus as senior level administrators and so forth to make those connections for them, but also offering maybe of gen one mentoring group for those first for those Pro-staff and so forth. It should be something that a majority of our divisions should have because a lot of us have either gone through those similar experiences and so forth. But what I like to see more of that, absolutely. I don’t. I feel like I don’t see enough of that. Either, you know, we don’t currently have that in our division right now, or another divisions that I’ve either been a part of and so forth.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Ray, Daisy, did you want to add?

Ray Gasser:
Yeah, I’ll add a couple things. You know, one of my doctoral research was around student retention and so understanding the differences and the factors that impact whether or not a student ultimately graduates has always been something interesting to me. And, and one of the things that has always stuck with me was a reading in my doctoral program from Bordeaux around cultural capital. And that’s really what we’re talking about. And in entirely in terms of the gatekeepers, all the things that, that prevent social classes from being able to achieve this the thing that we’re all looking to do which is graduate in and be successful in our careers. To me, the question really becomes an and for all of us what are we doing on our campuses to, to create those spaces, to really push? So Juan’s right.

Ray Gasser:
It’s, it’s, it’s one sharing your story, getting that out there so that other people know that, that there are professionals on the campus that, that have achieved it so that they have someone to look to as a role model to it’s it’s what type of programs exist on your campus that actually helped to break down those barriers that exists when it, when it comes to cultural capital and three, you know, I, I want to acknowledge that you know, my experience, I think we have similar experiences, but, you know, I had, I have the privilege of being a cisgendered white male going through this as a first-generation. And I know that there, there were probably doors that were open that may not have been there for Daisy and Juan. And so I just, I, you know, I want to acknowledge that I don’t want someone to sit and leave going well, you know, Ray and Daisy, and Juan all had the same experience. We we’ve had probably some similar experiences, but we’ve probably also had some different barriers along the way too.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
Yeah. Thank you for saying that, Ray, you know, I think about when I was applying to doctoral programs the vice president of student affairs at my current institution that I was at when I was applying said, oh, I don’t think you should apply to Indiana University. That’s very competitive. You really need to look at other options. And I think about as Juan also shared that someone told him like, oh, you’re not quality material for that. How dare you say that to someone, right? Like, how dare you? You don’t know me. This VPSA just walked onto the campus was brand new. I maybe had worked with him for three months. And yes, I went to IU, you know, and I think about how we, we need to do a better job just as, as colleagues, as supervisors getting to know our staff and really being identity conscious and learning more about the people who worked with us.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
And I think back at one of the Student Affairs NOW podcast was on identity conscious supervision. And it really struck me because I think about how fortunate I’ve been throughout my student affairs career. And I’ve worked at five different universities at one community college and all, but one really knew me all, but one really cared about my professional development and growth and wanted me to be successful. And I, I think about the one person who did it I can’t speak for why she didn’t encourage me. But for whatever reason, she didn’t believe that I was capable of excelling in this field for whatever reason. I’m not sure what biases she had of me or maybe a Filipinos or maybe an Asian women. So I just think like whoever is listening to this podcast, and if you’re a supervisor, please get to know your staff and help empower them and help validate them and learn about what they want to accomplish and see their potential because we really need to be better at encouraging one another to be our best.

Glenn DeGuzman:
I love that for supervisors. How can they tend to simply support first-generation professionals?

Juan R. Guardia:
I’ll jump in with what Daisy just shared. So as I’m working with some of our first gen professionals here, one of the things that I’m cognizant about is that if you know, they’ve been here maybe a year or two, maybe even three years, if I see a really good opportunity that I think is right up their alley, I’ll let them know. And I remember one individual telling me, what are you trying to kick me out? Or do you want me to go? You don’t want to hear anymore. I’m like, no, I’m also not going to hold you back from something that I think is really right up your alley and maybe worth your time, your experiences and your energy. And so I’m never trying to push anyone out, but if it’s something that I know would be a really good fit for them and may all possibly open up additional doors based on experiences, maybe even an advanced terminal degree via tuition, remission, and so forth, I’m going to let you know. And I, and I will see that in a genuine way of, Hey, I think you’re a great, and I think what you’ve done here has been phenomenal, but also don’t want to hold you back from future opportunities because who would I be to do that to someone when I’ve had those opportunities presented to me? And so it’s almost just like continuing that tradition of making sure that I can assist other first gen professionals to particularly move forward.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thanks Juan. Ray Daisy thoughts.

Ray Gasser:
I would, I would, I would reiterate you know, point that was made earlier, I think by Juan was make sure you tell your story, be accessible, you know, get it out there. Like people need to know who you are and, and the path that you came, you know, like I use examples from, from my experience all the time, because, you know, I, I still look back and the fact that I was able to write 150 page dissertation to me, like, you know, I’ll never, I’ll never do anything like that again, but by gosh, you know, the fact that I was able to do that, I’m like, if I can do that and, and I don’t think I’m a great writer you know, I had a tremendous amount of help on, on editing and making sure that I was, I was clear from others who helped me along the way, who know who they are. You know, if, if I didn’t have those supports and pieces in play, I, you know, I don’t know if but it’s, it’s having that confidence in yourself and knowing that there are others around that are there to help you to me that that’s, you know, I hope people really hear that. Because I think all three of us are really saying, you just have to find that community, that network and, and tap into it because they’re kind of your lifeline.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
Exactly. And you would have to believe in yourself, right? I, for me, a term that has stayed with me from college throughout my career is resilience that you may get beaten down, but you got to get back up. Right. You have to get back up, you have to keep moving forward and pressing forward. So yes.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Yeah. I’m going to break mold for a second and just kinda like add my 2 cents. I love what you said, Ray, about telling stories. I think sometimes my way of connecting with folks who may have gone through the experience that I’ve gone through is just to tell authentically my struggles. I hold this position, right? Hold this title. And the more I share about, and I love the early example negotiating salary, when the job offer was given to me, I think it was like a record, like you’re offered the job. Yes, I accept one second. I did not even know how, but I think it’s just by sharing the struggles and the things that I went through. I mean, I just sharing them. People come back, come back and they ask, so can you tell me more about that? And then it leads to these, these beautiful informal conversations. And sometimes it just, it’s just demonstrating vulnerability and humility in, in ways that I think resonate with first, the first gen pop. So let’s go on that line around this, you know, we’re talking about mentoring a little bit here, like mentoring the next generation of folks, all of you have impacted the lives of so many people. And when you look at today’s student first professionals who identify as first generation professionals, what do you want to tell them?

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
I’ll start. I want to let them know that you may not see it, but it’s there. And I say that because I think about when I started my doctoral program, at IU, I was really grateful to be surrounded by supportive faculty. And my dissertation was Dr. Mary Howard Hamilton. And in every class that I did, almost every paper focused on Asian Pacific Islanders or Filipino American students. And I reflect back and just think about how grateful I am that I was able to learn more about my community in the United States, and to think about what is still missing and what needs. How can I contribute to the field and how can I broaden the voice and consciousness about Asian Pacific Islander, Dacy, American students. And, you know, when I started off in my master’s program, I didn’t have that same level of consciousness cause I wasn’t aware of how I could be a contributor. And so I want first gen professionals to know that your voice is important and your voice matters and you are a role model and you are a leader, whether you see it now or not, you are.

Ray Gasser:
I want to build off of what Daisy said. And something just occurred to me that you know, I hadn’t, I hadn’t thought about in terms of the difference between a first-generation student and, and everyone else, honestly. And that is, that is, and what we see today particularly is the influence of parents. I’m a first-generation student. I don’t know if I’ve ever had a first-generation students, parents call me, I’ve had a lot of parents that, that have bachelor’s master’s law degrees, whatever. And they’ll tell me about all that call me and, and resonate that this is what this is about.

Ray Gasser:
What I think is tremendously powerful about that is that so many of these first-generation college students are able to endure and thrive in an environment where, where they’re making themselves heard rather than having someone else speak up for them. And to me, you know, that sense of humility, that sense of resilience that, that, that I think better equipped sometimes people to then enter into the workforce because they have that sense of confidence. The piece that I would, express to each of you is, is make sure that you find your voice and, and don’t let the system push you down because you may not understand what the financial aid documentation indicates or what the process for withdrawal from a classes, but there’s someone that does, and you just have to find that person on your campus they’re there to help you. And, and I think once you, once you find that network, you’re probably going to be better equipped than, than most of the students in terms of really preparing you for post education,

Juan R. Guardia:
I’ll chime in. And I think it’s exactly what Ray just shared. It is finding that group. It’s finding those mentors, it’s finding that network. One of the things that I always tell folks is be accessible and reach out to individuals. And don’t be shy. You know, I I’ve heard from some first gen professionals that for a lot of them, when they’re in the field or when they go to conferences, they get really shy when they see people because of their names or whatnot. And I’m like, no, let me keep it real. I was you. So whatever you need, here’s my business card. I am more than happy to engage in any conversations that you may need. I can serve as a connector for you and your area. And if I don’t, I can find someone else that may or may not be in that specific area to assist you and whatnot.

Juan R. Guardia:
And I think that’s an important part is a be accessible be, don’t be afraid to reach out to those individuals and see the mantra that I’ve always been told by my community back home and in their exact words is bro, you got it. Like, you can find a way, if you can find a way to connect with individuals, we can find a way to make her that it will happen for you. And so I really appreciate what my peers have shared you know, Daisy you made a really good point when you talked about your doctoral teacher. Mine was Dr. Nancy Evans at Iowa state. And I remember every time that I will connect with her and a majority of my papers were on Latin X, Latino, Latina students and ethnic identity, as I was focusing my dissertation around that.

Juan R. Guardia:
And she never once said, okay, you’ve done enough of this. You know, just keep doing it and get, you know, find additional data and so forth so much, so much so that when I would turn in papers for courses that I did have her in, she would tell me, well, let me to the side and say, Juan were you thinking in Spanish when you wrote this? And I was like, I could have been. And she’s like, I can tell because your language changes in the midst of the paper. She’s like, but I also know that that’s your first language. And I, and she acknowledged that. And because she acknowledged and respected that I, I forever hold her for, you know, being such a great doctoral advisor, but acknowledging that and validating that experience for me spoke volumes to me again as a first gen going through through my doc program.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Amazing. Wow. So this is going to be our final question. It’s a wrap-up question. And it said it’s a standard question that we ask all folks, but this podcast is called Student Affairs NOW. If you could take a minute or two to just summarize your final thoughts, whether it’s something you heard during this wonderful conversation from your peers, or it’s just you want to expand on a certain theme that has emerged. What are you pondering about or what are you still thinking about this topic and I’m going to ask Ray to start the wrap up.

Ray Gasser:
Well, first off, I want to thank you Glenn for hosting this and, and thank you to Daisy and Juan for sharing your stories. I’m honestly energized to to look at what we’re doing in our department and how we’re we’re we can, you know, connect this to actual work that we do. I’m also thinking just am I sharing my story enough with colleagues? I think the other thing that I, I guess I would want to reiterate is, is that I think there’s a tremendous sense of humility being a first-generation student and professional. And I think that is, is our superpower honestly. And so I would encourage people to approach that as the piece that that will make us you know, the, the change makers on each of our campuses in higher education as a whole.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you, Ray, Juan.

Juan R. Guardia:
I think what I would add is be a proud of every accomplishment that you’re able to achieve. Whether it be, you know, a program or a project or a certificate or an advanced degree, or getting on a national committee for a national association and so forth. I love the humility part that Ray talked about and still be humble, but brag about it, because that is a good thing. And you should be as a first gen student, you know, putting yourself out there and saying, Hey, I did this because those are opportunities that were presented to you. And you know, as folks think about it, not only are they looking at it from being the humble lens, but also looking at it from a privileged lens. Like I was given this opportunity now, what can I do with this opportunity to assist other individuals looking at it from that mentality and that lens as well.

Juan R. Guardia:
And then finally know that other folks are always looking at you through your accomplishments as a first gen professional whether it be your Pro-staff, it might be your immediate family that, you know, for me personally, the person that comes to my mind was my niece. She was finishing up high school. She went to the same two-year college that I went to in south Florida, Miami. And then she transferred, she went to FIU and as up to now, we’re the only two in our immediate family that did earn undergraduate degrees. And we talk about that all the time. And what does that look like? Because we would love to see more family members do that, but she would tell me, you know, tio it was because I, I saw you, you know, not living in this area because you were working at other area parts of the country because of the opportunities you were given as a first gen. And so know that someone’s always looking at you, whether it be familial or outside or within the field because they’re looking at you for your accomplishments, because that’s something that they would like to aspire to as well.

Daisy Rodriguez Pitel:
Well, thanks. Thank you so much. I love what Ray and Juan shared. And the one piece that I’ll just add is that we are pioneers being first gen professionals and first gen students. And I was my, the first of my family to earn a PhD. And my sister is a high school principal in LA unified, and she started her doctorate at USC. And I think about when she was on a panel and she invited me to be in the audience. She gave me a shout out instead, I’m going to be like my sister who earned a doctorate. And I, and for me that just really warms my heart because it doesn’t matter how old my sister is and what she’s already accomplished in her career, but now she believes she can also earn a doctorate. And so so thank you so much. I really enjoyed this panel and I really enjoyed being a part of this conversation. Thank you, Glenn.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Yeah. Yeah. I’m inspired by all of you. And I want to just thank you for being here. So I’m wrapping up Dr. Juan Guardia, Dr. Daisy Rodriguez Pitel and Dr. Ray Gasser. Thank you all first generations, students and professionals. And thank you for being guests. I do want to thank Nat Ambrosey. Who’s going to have the honor of listening to this podcast before hand and getting it all prepared, transcribed, and ready for airing. Thanks for joining us. If you’re listening today, not already receiving our weekly newsletter, please visit our website at studentaffairsnow.com. Just scroll to the bottom of the page and add your email to our MailChimp list. And while you’re there, please check out our archives. Again, my name is Dr. Glenn DeGuzman. Thanks for spending time with us today. Whether you’re listening or watching, I hope you enjoyed this episode and wherever you are, go out and have a good day. Bye everybody.

Websites: https://naspa201.azurewebsites.net/course/we-re-still-first-navigating-the-hidden-curriculum-as-a-first-gen-professional

Article/Book citations: 

Enrique Valasquez Rodriguez