Will L. Hsu
I think what I’m really thinking about is how our field is experiencing, in general, lower enrollment numbers for graduate student programs and as we reimagine and like sort of target, how we, I guess, the pipelines in which how we bring students through, like higher ed graduate preparation programs and ultimately into the field as our future colleagues, like, how many, in what ways can we make sure that first generation graduate student support is a foundation for whatever initiatives that like that are coming to mind, that are being developed.

Keith Edwards
Hello and welcome to Student Affairs NOW. I’m your co host, Keith Edwards. I’m also joined today by my co host Michael Almond, who you’ll hear from in a little bit. And today we’re focusing on first generation graduate students in higher education preparation programs. Today’s episode is part of a 13 episode series for ACPA is 100th anniversary and a partnership between ACPA and Student Affairs NOW, we have two great guests joining us today and a rich conversation ahead of us. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and online learning community for 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the higher to the field of higher education and student affairs. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays. Find details about this episode or browse our archives@studentaffairsnow.com as I mentioned, today’s episode is sponsored by ACPA, an independent 501 c3 nonprofit association which is sponsoring this special 13 episode series with Student Affairs NOW to celebrate its 100th anniversary, boldly transforming higher education, as I mentioned, I’m your co host, Keith Edwards, my pronouns are he, him his. I’m a speaker, author and coach, and I help empower transformation for better tomorrows in higher education through leadership, learning and equity. You can find out more about me at Keith edwards.com and I’m recording this today from my home in Minneapolis, Minnesota, which is at the intersections of the ancestral and current homelands of both the Dakota in the Ojibwe peoples over to you, Michael.

Michael Almond
Thanks, Keith. Hey everyone. I’m your co host. Michael Almond, my pronouns are Keith and his, and I’m currently a Client Success and Support Coordinator at get pulse, which is a community engagement software for higher education and nonprofit organizations. I’m recording today from Atlanta, Georgia, the ancestral homelands of the UT and Cherokee East people. Let’s go ahead and get this conversation started and welcome our guests. So we’ll go ahead and just start with some introductions. If you all wouldn’t mind introducing yourself your pronouns and just sharing a little bit about yourself in your current role as your connection, as well as your connection to this topic. So Will, we’ll go ahead and start with you awesome.

Will L. Hsu
Hello everyone. Good morning from the West Coast. My name is Will Hsu my English pronouns are he and his. And I have the pleasure of currently serving as an Assistant Director of Residential Life at San Jose State University, which resides on the unceded territory of the thamian Ohlone folks, Donnie Damien Ohlone tribal nation, which is also interconnected with the muwekma Ohlone tribal nation. And so a little bit about myself and my connection to this topic. My background in student affairs is mostly in the functional areas of like Residential Life, academic advising, DEI education orientation and parent, Parent and Family Programs. I identify as a first generation college student, and also the first in my family to enroll in and seek and obtain a master’s degree. And I and I think, like my entry point into Student Affairs, particularly with my identities and my positionality, also includes the narrative of knowing what I wanted to do for graduate school before knowing what I wanted to do for undergrad, also Being growing up and going to undergrad in a particular same region of the United States, and then, knowing only that for my life, and then going across the country to a completely different regional experience. My graduate education, I have my master’s in Student Affairs Administration from SUNY Binghamton University, and I can share, I’m excited to talk a little bit about how my narrative of how I got into graduate school and navigate to graduate school, and now, like reflecting on those experiences after having a master’s degree, how it all ties to this topic today.

Michael Almond
Wonderful. Thank you and Nick, we’ll have you introduce yourself next.

Nick Malendowski
Yeah, awesome. Hi everyone. My name is Nick Malendowski. I use hehim pronouns, and I currently serve as the Assistant Director of the Honors College at Eastern Michigan University in Ypsilanti, Michigan, which is the original homeland of the Odawa Ojibwe Potawatomi and wind up tribal nations. I attended graduate school for my master’s in Bowling Green State University’s College Student Personnel program, and being a first generation college student has always been an extremely important part of who I am as a. Person. I remember even in undergrad, I arrived to college in my first day, and I just remember sitting on my bed and being like, All right, we’re here. So now, what do we do now? Because I just didn’t know even where to begin in that college experience. As I started going to grad school and started doing this higher level work. I also realized that not only was I a first generation college student, I was also a first generation graduate student as well. So I just really remember these feelings of fear, uncertainty, not really being sure of, kind of like I said, what was coming next. And as I’m kind of sitting here today, I look back on a lot of this pride and just thinking about how much I achieved throughout my graduate education, and I’m kind of going through that process again now. So I’m getting ready to start a doctoral program and educational leadership at Eastern and it’s a lot of those same feelings that I’m kind of shuffling through again. You know, I don’t know what to expect from a doctoral program. No one in my family has really done a doctoral program, even like my extended family. I’m kind of like the first one really doing this, so I’m kind of having that conversation myself. So I’m really excited to see how this conversation plays out today, because I think it’s going to be really applicable to the place in life I’m at now.

Michael Almond
Thank you for that, Nick, for both will and Nick, I really appreciate the little tease to the insight of you being a first generation graduate student. So I’m really interested to hear your narratives a little bit more soon. But before we continue, I just also wanted to mention that we did have a third guest who was planning to join us, but was unfortunately able to last minute. So I just wanted to give a quick shout out to Dr Jackie Mack, who is an assistant professor of higher education at Northern Illinois University. She was just instrumental in helping us for her for this episode, but she was unable to join us today. So Jackie, thank you for all your help in making this episode happen, and now we can continue this episode.

Keith Edwards
Yeah. Well, thanks to all of you for being here. I find this really interesting because I have a really different perspective. Both my parents did go to college, and my mom got a master’s degree, and my grandmother got a doctorate at a time when working as a full time first grade teacher that was really unusual in the mid 70s, particularly for women. And so I’m as I’m listening to this, I’m hearing some things that that I relate to, even having sort of the opposite end of experience and all the privilege that comes with that. But also, remember sitting on my bed on the first day, just as you were saying, Nick, like, what do I do now? So I think that I’m really interested in this conversation and the differences in the similarities and what we can kind of evoke here. But Michael, you’ve been working on this episode and designing inviting guests and things for a while. I’m wondering if you can provide us a little framing about what do we mean when we talk about first generation college students and first generation graduate students, which is a little bit of a mouthful, let me try that again, first generation graduate students. Yeah, yeah.

Michael Almond
So just to define what we’re talking about for today’s conversation, we’re looking specifically at first generation graduate students in higher education programs. So whether that be masters or doctoral level programs, we’re specifically looking at this population. So a lot of content research is focused on first generation college students, specifically thinking about undergraduate students who, who who didn’t who had parents that did not go to undergraduate and get a four year bachelor’s degree. From this conversation, we’re looking at those who whose parents and not attain a master’s or doctoral level degree. So just kind of wanting to frame that conversation so we all know kind of what we’re going to be talking about today.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, and for folks who are interested in others, other conversations like this, we previously had a conversation about first generation undergraduate students on Student Affairs now, and an episode on first generation student affairs, first generation college students who went on to become student affairs professionals. And so this is kind of sandwiched in between there about the first generation graduate and professional school. So folks, both of you, kind of alluded to this, but maybe we’ll, we’ll come back to you to open up a little bit more. What are some of the experiences and challenges you’ve experienced, or you’ve seen others who identify this way in higher ed preparation programs, maybe yourself, maybe people you have conversations with, maybe some of your peers and your cohort?

Will L. Hsu
Yeah, I definitely think, starting with my own experience, one of one of the most salient experiences that comes to mind is earlier in my intro, when I mentioned that I kind of knew what I wanted to do in grad school before I knew what I wanted to do in undergrad as a first generation college student and just. Like the quick narrative explaining that my first year of undergrad, I think it was my second quarter, is when I got involved, got connected to the hall council government for my residential area, and that’s when I had my first one on one as an executive board member with my advisor at the time, our Assistant Director of Residential Life for that area. And I just, I don’t remember the conversation, but I do remember her having this little tidbit letting me know that, like, hey, you know what I do as a full time job, right? And like, you can get a master’s degree in this, and it sort of just sparked my interest, planted that seed, that like, Oh, wow. Like, I had, I don’t even know what I want to do with my college degree, I but I know that this is now a career pathway, and I always loved getting involved. And you know, ultimately, I find out that student affairs was a lot more about just getting involved. But involved, but, but more than just getting involved, but and then, but at the time, I still had not yet even declared my undergrad major. I changed my major about four times since that initial second quarter of my first year, and in a journey to find something that would have some level of connection to being a foundation for my eventual like Graduate preparation or graduate degree. And then there’s also the like application and piece to graduate school, exploring graduate programs, finding out that like, sort of a lot of the origins of how we understand Student Affairs comes from like, institutions that resided in regions of the United States that were not where I lived, in Southern California, and so that, like, in order for me to become a competitive candidate for a student affairs career back home in California, I had to really broaden my my horizons and my understanding of the field by going outside of California first so and that was scary for me. I had never left Southern California for the first 21 years of my life, so I think like it. I don’t think I could have navigated it as well as I did. And trust me, like there was, it was, I say that, and it was and as well as I did, was also really messy, but it was with my mentors and all the different professional staff that I connected with in my undergrad across different functional areas who really like helped steer me and guide me into like all the different considerations that I was not thinking About as someone who did not have this this, I guess, like navigational capital in higher education.

Keith Edwards
What was it like for you? You mentioned that you navigated it successfully. Sounds like there were some bumps. What was it like for you, leaving home, in many ways, for kind of the first time that region of the country and going to the opposite corner, yeah,

Will L. Hsu
so I said in my intro, I did grad school in upstate New York, and I thought that, you know, when you’re going to a flagship institution, or an institution that’s in a city in upstate New York, that it was going to be a little bit more urban than I thought it was not very urban. And so I think like understanding regional differences, I think some of the more i i guess, like, Oh, what is the term? Some of the experiences that really the deer in the headlights, moments came from my experience navigating my positionality as a as a queer male of color in a predominantly white institution for the first time in my higher ed experience. And so some of that also included, like, you know, before I even go to that part. There was also the piece of navigating my transition from being a student to being a graduate assistant, and therefore, like, there’s a new professional positionality there too, now and then, to come back to what I was about to say, unfortunately, navigating some of my first workplace racism incidents, like in the field as well. So there was a lot to navigate from the professional positionality piece. There was a lot to navigate from like the regional adjustment piece to like a different regional culture in the United States. And then there was also a lot to navigate from the scholar piece of like the actual academics of graduate school. What does it mean to have a faculty advisor? What does it mean to be in a program where where it’s more geared towards practicum and comprehensive exams and not not as much towards the thesis, like, type of requirement and and then, what does it also mean to, like, navigate a different, I guess, like what it also meant to me to navigate a different series of life transitions when I changed graduate assistantships and went from opportunities where I could live on campus to opportunities where I lived off campus now. So, yeah, oh yeah, thanks.

Keith Edwards
Thanks for sharing all that. I think there’s, there’s all sorts of things coming at you. Right different region, different culture, urban, rural. Rural is probably not the right word, but less urban, but then also intersections of race and sexual orientation and first gen and all of those things. Nick, how about you? What do you what are you connecting with here? Similar, different. Tell us a little bit about your journey.

Nick Malendowski
Yeah, as you say, as John, some things down. As will was talking because it’s so fascinating to me how there are so many similarities that I share with Will’s story, but there’s also so many differences, but they come from almost the same area. So, you know, I didn’t decide to go into Student Affairs until my last semester of undergrad. So I was that super involved student. I was doing orientation, pretty much ran our tour program of the University. Just was very involved in kind of like the Student Affairs side of thing. But I was a communication disorders major, and going into speech pathology in 2021 was not really feeling like that was a good spot to be in. And so it’s a blessing that in Student Affairs at this point, but yeah, I did the hall council thing. Like it was a whole, like a whole piece of just like my undergrad was doing those involvements, and that’s kind of a point I actually wrote down for this question. Kind of those experiences and challenges of first gen students in general, but also first gen graduate students. Is a lot of my experiences and just conversations I’ve had with people, is we just love to overcome it. You know, we are told that do as much as you can, it’s going to set you up for success. Always say yes, things like that, which in moderation, is a great idea, you know, kind of get involved in different spheres, see what’s going on. But that can easily go too much, because we don’t really know what a proper level of, you know, involvement, or proper level of time devoted to classwork. We don’t really have, like, people in our family telling us, like, what that looks like, so we’re kind of navigating this sphere on our own and figuring out, like, what kind of figuring out as we go, and by the time you realize, dang, I’m really over committed, you’re too deep to do anything about it. So I think that’s just a really big experience that folks have me included. And I think that another piece of adjustment that was really hard for me, moving from undergrad to grad school, in addition of that mindset shift of, you know, moving from I’m just a student at this university, sure, I have some leadership positions, but I’m not like a professional on campus, moving into an actual advising role, working with primarily first generation, low income students. It really is this big shift in mindset where you’re like, Oh, I actually need to kind of change how, not necessarily change how I present, but kind of change how I’m being viewed on campus, or change how I’m being viewed by students things like that. I’m really grateful that I chose to attend bowling greens program, because I think being in a cohort style program really benefited me. Being able to have students that are have classmates and colleagues that I shared similar classes with. Kind of went through the program together, and what I learned throughout this experience, as well as a lot of us. Actually were first gen graduate students as well, and so I was able to engage in a lot of really cool conversations. I was on our first gen Planning Committee, like, I was able to just have this really great space where I could connect with a lot of folks. And I think a lot of times when we get caught up in, you know, these experiences, oftentimes it can turn negative, or it can turn into, like, bad experiences, which is valid. I had my fair share, but I also think there’s a huge sense of pride for first gen graduate students. And it’s not even like the big things. It’s not like, yeah, graduation, we were proud of ourselves, but it’s like, I did really well on a graduate level paper, or I really mastered how to use APA, like, it’s like, these small things that you kind of gain throughout your college education that can really just step folks up to, like, feeling really proud of themselves, kind of breaking down, those fears, breaking down feeling like you don’t belong. So I think that these experiences really can help first gen graduate students, like, just move forward and kind of find their place, even if they don’t decide to, like, stay at that institution. They’re at their graduate program for like, they’re kind of figuring things out as they go and is setting them up for success in the future.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, sounds like a the big lesson here is committed and involved is great, over committed and over involved, not so great. So we gotta kind of get the Goldilocks going on there. Yeah, Michael, where do you want to take us?

Michael Almond
Yeah, I was actually interested in a quick follow up. Nikki had mentioned you were involved in a in the first gen graduate program organization, I was curious to know if you could expand a little bit about that and kind of just describe your experience of like, what were the existing support structures in place for first gen graduate students? If any, I’d love to hear your response to that as well.

Nick Malendowski
Yeah, so I so the group that I was a part of. So I was a graduate advisor with a scholarship program that predominantly serves first gen, low income students. And as part of my grad assistantship, I was able to be a part of the first generation committee on campus, which just meant, you know, putting on different events that are geared towards first gen students, putting together materials available for first gen students. Put planning at the National first gen week, things like that. And for what I what I did find interesting. I think there aren’t enough resources in general for any first gen student on most campuses. But for graduate students, specifically, they’re they’re pretty hard to find like because when resources are marketed at predominantly undergraduate institutions, they’re usually like, your first semester on campus, come check us out. Or you know you’re getting ready to graduate soon. Let’s get you ready to get those jobs and things like that. And grad students are often left out of that conversation. So in my role in in my assistantship and things like that, I was also a part, once again, getting to that I over committed, but I was also the Vice President of our graduate student senate. And so as part of that role, I was able to actually put together some, some different legislation that we were able to present to our president of our institution, being like, there needs to be more support for first generation students, specifically graduate students. And so after that went through, there’s actually been more kind of the attitudes have changed, at least at Bowling Green, kind of about first gen students and the different resources that are needed. So I think, you know, they’ve actually kind of one of the positions on campus now more focused on first gen supports. I know they’re doing more with writing support and doing more with just like, making sure that there are folks available as a resource for students on campus, including graduate students. So yeah, lots of different things. A lot of it came down to really, just like, there needs to be someone who is helping these students out as much as possible, instead of just bouncing them from office to office, expecting them to know the ins and outs of financial aid, expecting them to know the ins and outs of registration, when that’s not always the case, and that can be really mind boggling and can be really painful to try and figure out throughout the process. So all that to say there should be more supports, but at least they’re kind of on the trend to get more support.

Will L. Hsu
Yeah, I think, like, I resonate so much with what you just mentioned, Nick I also experienced, like, just a dearth of graduate student specific support when I was a grad student and everything, I think, like even trying to go to the Career Center at the time, trying to go to, like, utilize counseling services, but also, like having this dual positionality of, like, I am, I’m an employee in some ways, but I’m also a student, so I’m eligible for the student counseling sessions. And. Um, like those were very many, very different things to navigate, as it was fellow student affairs employees like providing these structures, but they weren’t necessarily thinking about like our experiences at the time. And so similarly to Nick like I was, I’m I, I’m grateful that a lot of the folks in my cohort were also like, we shared a lot of that first generation identity. So even though, like, I, well, yeah, all that to say is that, like, there is still connection points that I had in with my cohort in particularly like, what is it like the first time we had to do like law briefs for our law and higher ed class, like most of us did, never really had much interaction with the legal system in that formal setting, so we didn’t understand that there was a different style of writing there. What is a lit review? Like, where can we get help with like, with putting together and structuring and annotated bibliography? Why does APA format matter? Like, why phrase things with a certain style, a certain grammar, a certain tone, like this writing doesn’t this writing, this style of communication, doesn’t come naturally, because it’s not something that like we were ever conditioned with. And so, yeah, those were some of the things that like in in grad school, because there weren’t so many, like, academic resources targeted for graduate students. In my experience, I found that, like, your faculty advisor was sort of just the one stop shop for all of those things, but at the same time, you depending on that like relationship that you have with that advisor, like the relationship really could make or break How, how much support you received from your advisor and so, yeah, those were also like pieces to to navigate when we talk about other resources that are or support structures. From Michael’s question out, in my experience, I I think back, and I’m also really grateful that I got connected to ACPA in my first year of grad school, and also specifically APA s next generation Institute at the time I was able to attend when next generation Institute was open to both graduate students and undergraduate students, and then also APA is Asian Pacific American network. There was a, I will say, that I currently serve as one of the co chairs for that network for APA. Oh, this is also a shameless plug, but like one of the programs that I experienced then, and we still host now, is our apida scholars collective, where we have different scholars within our apida community, Asian, Pacific, Islander, Desi American community, who offer to have either in person or virtual office hours around the time of convention with members of our community, and those office hours are opportunities to talk about things such as like doctoral research interests, applying to doctoral programs, applying to Master’s programs, navigating different aspects of your personal like life transitions, personal identities and with like different professional transitions that you could be experiencing too. I think it was from those experiences that reminded me that, like the the way I was going to get through all the things that were that were like giving me whiplash and throwing me for a whirlwind in graduate school, was being connected to community. And so there was that I also this is an observation that I expect I noted after my time in graduate school, but I noted that because of my peers, my colleagues graduate experiences, either in master’s or doctoral programs, but how like different graduate student collective? Across the country were protesting, particularly for cost of living, increases in their compensation, how they were advocating for better workplace standards, for more guidance to university administration to prevent, like, the exploitation of graduate student labor and even for unionization. So and those were all so, like, when I reflect back on my own graduate student experiences, were those things that I definitely experienced, yes, were those things that were the support structures in place to address those experiences at the time? No, but I also think that those that we’re seeing a shift in how like the graduate student experience, particularly for well now the graduate student experience is shifting, and I think it’s shifting in a way that is better accommodating and addressing some of these experiences that first generation graduate students went through during the time when I went to graduate graduate school.

Michael Almond
Thank you both for sharing those perspectives. I can sense from both of those perspectives that like there were definitely a lot of challenges. Definitely a lot of challenges, but at the same time, there were supports. There were some support systems in place to support you. I really like the idea. I think will you had mentioned it community, and I heard a little bit of that idea coming from Nick’s perspective as well. I’m glad that you had brought up ACPA, because I want to transition into that next and so you’d already mentioned it a little bit well, but since this podcast is partly sponsored by ACPA, we are just curious to know, like in what ways from your individual ACPA involvements, have you seen the association play a role in supporting first generation graduate students In the field? I know you both have very different or a lot of different ways you’re involved. ACPA, so I’d love to hear how those involvements have shaped your growth within the field. And we’ll all let you go ahead and start.

Will L. Hsu
Yeah. Thank you. I definitely think a lot of it. A lot of my experiences, experience, well, oh my gosh, where are my words? A lot of my experiences with ACPA and first generation graduate student support has really boiled down to, or like become focused in initiatives that we see from the entities in ACPA. There’s the graduate students and new professionals, community of practice, but then also different commissions and also different coalitions and networks have really leaned into like programs that and initiatives that really like tie into the collectivist approach of like, some of the cultures that our identities are connected with, in order to, yeah, address, like first generation graduate student support from Those lens. So I talked about earlier, like with a pan our pita scholars collective and but I also think that with acpas, I will say, like when I was reflecting on this question, I think about this, I guess, like, connection I’m drawing between how ACPA strategic imperative for racial justice and decolonization has I’ve seen it start to come out in practice with conversations we’re having in the coalitions and networks level, and how it intersects with the Like research and scholarship area of the APA Leadership Council in breaking down some of the is it breaking down? Maybe it’s more so like reimagining how like research and scholarship can look within higher education. US podcasting right now is an example of that. It’s not the same as like a as a peer reviewed journal article, but at the same time like it, we are pooling together our knowledge. We are also like making our knowledge and experiences through storytelling accessible for our audience. And so I definitely think that, yeah, that’s just a theme that I see that’s really. Driven by ACPA values and, yeah, those are some of the things that came up for me when I was thinking about this question.

Michael Almond
Yeah, thank you. I really like that idea of kind of like reimagining how we can share our ideas and share our research even through these like untraditional lenses, right? And how that’s become a more accessible way to approach conversations like this. So thank you, Nick. I’d love to hear what you what you’d add to this part.

Nick Malendowski
Yeah, absolutely. So when I first got both ACPA, I pretty much jumped headfirst into the graduate students and new professionals community of practice. So I initially began as an ACPA ambassador. That was my first semester of graduate school, so I really just got to learn about what ACPA entailed. Because, to be honest, I kind of just joined without really knowing too much about what it was, and so that really allowed me to connect with a lot of folks who work in Student Affairs, work in higher ed that were at very similar spots in their life as I was. So being an HP ambassador, I really was able to just meet other people, meet folks who’ve been involved with the Commission for our community longer than I have, and really just kind of have that support system. As I started graduate school, I was placed, actually, they’re called clusters. I was placed in a cluster with one of someone I’ve worked with a lot over the past few years. I’ve connected. I’ve presented with them at different conferences, at ACPA, I’ve presented with them at Nakata, like I’ve just really gotten involved with folks from gsnp and in general, I think ACPA just really, just really does a great job with making sure folks in the organization just feel supported, especially, for example, focusing on first generation graduate students. I think just with the amount of webinars that go on, with the amount of learning opportunities, they just sent out the email about the pre convention workshops, and those would all be fantastic for first gen grad students to attend. I just think that, thinking of my experience and thinking about, like, how I’ve progressed in student affairs, I really don’t think I would be where I’m at today without ACPA support, to be honest. Now I’m on the director for gsnp. I’m also on the director of board for ACPA Michigan, so I’m just really, kind of getting to know a lot of really great folks from around my state, but as well as around the country. And it’s just been a really great experience to see how how I was a few years ago, being able to instill that in folks now we’re in their first year of grad school. Now that I’m a year out of my master’s, I’ve kind of gotten my feet wet in the field a little bit, and it’s really cool to see the kind of the flip side of that. And then for the AC investor program, it’s kind of transitioned into more of a convention ambassador program, and I was able to actually spearhead that, and I was able to be the one that really put that program together. So it’s been a really cool way to see how much I have changed over the last few years. And I’m sure a lot of other first generation graduate students feel the same way. Just through their involvement in ACPA, it’s been really rewarding, honestly, to say the least.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, I guess I’m hearing both of you wanting to give back what you received and also make sure people get the things that you didn’t get. Right? I wish I would have had this and wanted to offer that, which I think is how a lot of student affairs professionals, right? They had a really great experience. They want to give that back, or they didn’t have a good experience. They want to make sure others have a bad experience. I wonder if we could hear from each of you and Nick, we’ll start with you. We’ve talked a little bit about thoughts that you have for first generation graduate students to navigate. Be involved. Be committed. Don’t be over involved. Don’t be over committed. Be involved in some of these ACPA things. It’s a wonderful way to get connected community and resources. So much good stuff. What would you offer to professionals who are working with first generation graduate students. This might be advisors. This might be faculty working with first generation grad students. What would you offer them, from your perspective, that would help them better serve the students they’re so committed to?

Nick Malendowski
Yeah, definitely. I, you know, when I when reflecting on this question, I think my brain immediately went to just remembering that these students are people first, like, you know, they may be in your classroom, they may be your employee, they may be your colleague, whatever it might be. Graduate students are often holding so many different positions, kind of like I said, so many different involvements. A lot of them hold part time jobs. Off campus, like a lot of students, had a lot of things going on in their life. So I think for professionals working with first generation graduate students, just remember to be flexible, you know, willing to listen, as I mentioned, you know, the students in these positions, they might not, they might say they know what they’re doing, they might not know what they’re doing as someone who has been in that exact same boat. So just really being able to be a resource for the students that you’re working with, I also think it’s important to remember that if you know that you’re that the student is a first generation graduate student, that’s not like a catch all identity for that student. I think that being first generation means different things for different people. Some people might need that extra support where they’re like, Yes, I am going to ask you so many questions. I am going to need you to walk through this, whatever it might be. There are going to be other students who are like, I got this. Like, I’m here to do it. I’m I feel confident in the work I’m doing, and that’s okay, too. I think that there’s different ways that students can kind of present themselves in these spaces, and when you lump them all into one, I think that can just create a community that’s not really working as best as it can be. And that kind of goes back to my first point of just remembering that, like just get to know the people, instead of just thinking of them as an employee or just thinking of them as a student, because that can be really detrimental to your team or really draining to the student. We’re all just people in this world to be honest.

Keith Edwards
Yeah. So recognize that they’re human beings, and people tend to this identity, but also recognize that it’s not their only identity, and don’t essentialize them. Those are three great suggestions. Well, what would you add?

Will L. Hsu
Yeah, um, I had some similar thoughts when I was like, reflecting on this question. But I guess, like I will, I just packaged it, packaged it in different ways, I guess so I really want to affirm a lot of things that Nick was saying. One of the things in terms of, like, acknowledging our whole persons. So and I will say, prior to my current position, I’ve only worked professionally at I have a Jesuit institution, so this really comes from the that Jesuit lens, too. But cura personalis, like we in ResLife, we tell our students that you are human before you are a student. You’re human first student, second, like ra third. And here I would translate that too. Like we are human. First, we are students, second, and then we are our professional selves and so but like when we are in a different chapter of our lives, in graduate school, what? How we define like, the different dimensions of our of that human experience looks very different than maybe like, what are some, some of the things we stereotype for, like the traditional college, traditional undergraduate student, so recognizing that there could be a much greater diversity of life experiences among our graduate student population. To that degree. I also think that, like when providing support to a first generation graduate student, that also, as much as there are many experiences that will be like new to us. That doesn’t mean that they are completely foreign to us. It just means that we haven’t yet drawn the connections to like, maybe some life experiences that we may already have. So I think it’s important to ask what the student that you are working with knows first about a certain process before going into an explanation, like really treating the advising support from an anti deficit lens and but also trying to draw, trying to break down the issue past The Higher Ed jargon, past the higher ed systems and think about like, how, how would you explain this issue to?

Will L. Hsu
How would you really break down this issue and explain it to like a younger person and and then like, see if there’s any kind of like, if there’s any kind of life experience that the student you’re working with can connect to on that level. With that said, also taking some time to UN. Understand different learning styles, as we are seeing differences in learning styles and also different characteristics, generational characteristics of undergrad students. That means we’re going to see different generational characteristics of the of grad students as those undergrads become grads, and there could be some intergenerational like learning and meaning making happening in the classroom as well, depending on like at what point in someone’s life is someone like going in, going back to school, I think I I also have a note here of acknowledging, like, why things are what they are, just because, like, something is the way that it is, because of how academia and the Academy has, like, set it to be, doesn’t mean that, like, when these graduate students eventually graduate and have tools that they the tools equipped they’re equipped with the tools that they gain from their degree. That doesn’t mean that they have to perpetuate it, per se either, and so also being open to how, like, how first generation graduate students can imagine different possibilities too. So I, yeah, I think we also have to remember that, like, our systems of higher education are rooted in like, foundations of neoliberalism, white supremacy and, oh, there was one other I forgot, but like, like, those are all the foundation to the systems that we operate in with, and I would like to imagine that with all of the work that ACPA is doing To Boldly transform higher education, that everyone watching this, watching or listening to this episode and working with first generation graduate students we are trying to we also need to think about how our support will actively, like, combat some of those systems that we are we’ve been conditioned in or like, leave room for new possibilities too.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, I appreciate that systemic analysis and also the jargon. I think one of the ways jargon fits into is just the acronyms we use. That’s another sort of form of jargon. So Michael, let’s move us to wrapping up, yeah,

Michael Almond
so we’re running a little bit out of time, but this podcast is called Student Affairs NOW, so we just like to end the conversation by just asking, What are you thinking about, or what’s on your mind, what’s troubling you, or you’re pondering about it could be related to this conversation, or just anything else that is coming on your mind. And if you would like to give yourself a plug. Where could listeners find you?

Nick Malendowski
Yeah, I think something that I’ve been thinking about throughout this conversation is just a lot about that support side of things for first generation college students and graduate students. So as I’m, you know, getting started with this doctoral program. You know, I’m obviously working full time on campus, so my experience is going to be a little bit different than someone who’s, you know, doing a doc program with an assistantship or doing different work. But I’m just really thinking about how, how and what support systems are available. And I think that needs to be a larger conversation in the world of higher ed and student affairs. So something that I’ve been thinking with when it comes to a shameless plug, I’m never afraid to do one of those LinkedIn is my go to just look up my name. It’s only so many Nick malinowskis in the world, and then emails, , but once again, just look at my name. Can’t miss it.

Will L. Hsu
For me, I’m I think, like I will preface this is not fully related to this podcast topic, but it is, and in some ways it can be. I think what I’m really thinking about is how our field is experiencing, in general, lower enrollment numbers for graduate student programs and as we reimagine and like sort of target, how we, I guess, the pipelines in which how we bring students through, like higher ed graduate preparation programs and ultimately into the field as our future colleagues, like, how many, in what ways can we make sure that first generation graduate student support is a foundation for whatever initiatives that like that are coming to mind, that are being developed. So, yeah, I will definitely leave it there because, because the that is very much like also tied to the future of our field, in terms of where folks can connect with me, to especially like, continue conversations like these. LinkedIn is also a great place to connect with me. I wish I could. I wish I had the same uniqueness as Nick in terms of like, how searchable I am on LinkedIn. There are quite a lot of Will Hsu out there in the world, but I think I am the only will shoe I know in higher education student affairs. So hopefully, my tagline will make it a lot easier to filter myself out from all this from all the search results.

Michael Almond
Wonderful. Thank you both so much again for being part of this conversation, really thinking about a lot of fun things right now. So I’m gonna continue thinking about this, but Keith, I’ll send it to you to wrap us out.

Keith Edwards
Yeah. Thank you to all of you for being here and for your leadership in this space. This has been really great, and we also want to thank our sponsor of today’s episode, ACPA. ACPA college student educators International is celebrating its 100th anniversary and is boldly transforming higher education by creating and sharing influential scholarship, shaping Critically Reflective practice and advocating for equitable and inclusive learning environments. ACPA aspires to be higher educations and Student Affairs most inclusive and community driven Association by leading our profession and centering social justice, racial justice and decolonization as defining concepts of our time and the foreseeable future. Visit my myacpa.org or connect with them on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter and to learn more about ACPA as always, a huge shout out to our producer, Nat Ambrosey, who does all the behind the scenes work to make us all look and sound good. We love your support for these important conversations. You can help us reach even more folks by subscribing to the podcast on YouTube and our weekly newsletter where you can learn about each new episode on Wednesday mornings. If you’re so inclined, you can leave us a five star review. It really helps these conversations reach a larger audience. I’m Keith Edwards with Michael Allman. Thanks again to our amazing guest today and everyone who’s watching and listening, take good care of yourselves and honor your wisdom and spirit. Thanks, everybody.

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