Keith Edwards:
Hello and welcome to Student Affairs Now. I’m your host, Keith Edwards. Today, we’re talking about the new book, Digital Leadership and Higher Education:Purposeful, Social Media, in a Connected World. Have it right here. I’m thrilled to be joined by the author, Josie Ahlquist, and two of the folks highlighted as exemplary digital leaders that Josie featured in the book, Mordecai Brownlee and Mamta Accapadi. Student Affairs Now is the premier podcast and learning community for those of us who work in, alongside, or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We hope you’ll find these conversations make a contribution to the field and are restorative to the profession. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays. Find us at StudentAffairsNow.com or on Twitter and other social media.

Keith Edwards:
Today’s episode is sponsored by Stylus Publications. Stylus is proud to be a sponsor for the Student Affairs Now podcast. Browse their student affairs, diversity, and professional development titles at Styluspub.com. You can use the promo SANOW for 30% off all books and free shipping, including the book we’re talking about today, Digital Leadership in Higher Education. You can also find Stylus on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter at Styluspub.

Keith Edwards:
As I mentioned, I’m your host, Keith Edwards. My pronouns are he, him, his. I’m a speaker, consultant, & coach. You can find out more about me at keithedwards.com. I’m hosting today’s conversation from my home in Minneapolis, Minnesota, which is the ancestral home of the Dakota and Ojibwe peoples. So now let’s get to the conversation First, let’s meet our guests. If you could each tell us a little bit about yourself and your role and your work in digital leadership. That would be great. Mamta let us go ahead and start with you.

Mamta Accapadi:
Hi everyone. Thank you, Keith. It’s such an honor to be here in community with all of you. My name is Mamta Accapadi. I use she/her pronouns and currently I’m operating as a seventh grade teacher. So I just thought I’d share that with y’all. And when I’m not doing that I serve as Vice Provost for University Life at the University of Pennsylvania. It’s a role that I just began this semester. And so I really excited to kind of reflect on that and what that means for digital leadership. Because I have to say this experience for me, I am not somebody I have a lot of as well. Could you talk? I have a lot of learning to do here. My commitment to digital leadership is coming back amidst, the mistakes that I make, and so to keep coming back to the conversation. And so my hope and joy for all of us here is what does the invitation look like to be persistent in this relationship? Because it strengthens our relationship with our students and community. So thank you again.

Keith Edwards:
Yeah. Thank you for being here. Mordecai, tell us a little bit about you.

Mordecai Brownlee:
Yeah, thanks Keith. I’m honored to be here. My pronouns are he him his. I serve as the Vice President for Student Success at St. Phillips College in San Antonio. It’s the only federally designated historical black college that’s a community college that is a Hispanic serving institution in the nation. Also serve as adjunct professor for both at Morgan State University, a master’s of community college leadership program, and University of Charleston, school of business and leadership. I am also the president of the Josie Alquist Fan Club. My, my mission as – my online mission is to provide media content that promotes student inclusion, student engagement, student success and the development of academic and career pathways, as well as information to support of sustainability, the vitality and continued growth of all educators, any way that we can continue to promote and encourage and uplift the Academy as well as our students. That’s what I’m all committed to. So thank you again for having me.

Keith Edwards:
Well. Wonderful. Thank you. I think you’ve got some, some competition for that role of the president of the Josie Ahlquist Club. But I also love how you really, from the very beginning, one of the things that Josie talks about is purpose driven, digital leadership, and you just gave us your purpose. So way to get us ahead of things. Josie, tell us a little bit about you.

Josie Ahlquist:
So Josie Ahlquist, she, her, hers. I’m based out in Los Angeles and I was based on college campuses for a little over 12 years, got the doctorate, which as good faculty do open your eyes to new opportunities. And my research led me to going a little off-road as a consultant and speaker, and now a solo published author. My work, especially at the beginning, focused on studying college students and how they were navigating social media especially in their own leadership and life practices. At the same time, I was really paying attention to how vice presidents and deans and presidents were showing up on early days platforms like Twitter, which is the beginnings of this book, was to see those that were attempting to show up in ways that I saw as very engaging and authentic. And so I wanted to put a model to that. I’m also joined by a couple for babies in the background that may join us at any point in time. And this is the first I’m hearing in this fan club. So I’m blushing for those that are just watching the listening to the audio.

Keith Edwards:
Well, wonderful. We’ve got, we’ve got dogs and seventh grade and small children and I’ve got third grade and fifth grade happening in the other room. So this is the nature of digital leadership in these times, right? Real life in reality, navigating through. So, so Josie, you’re an expert on digital leadership. I think you might argue with that, but we won’t let you. You’ve taken what you’ve learned from researching and speaking and coaching around digital leadership and put it into this new book. It probably doesn’t feel new to you, but it’s new out this summer digital leadership for higher education. Could you tell us a little bit about what you see as the keys to digital leadership today just to get us started?

Josie Ahlquist:
Well it’s so funny. Like the beginning of the pandemic people are like, Oh, you should write a book during this time. And then, so I release a book, I didn’t write it during COVID. And so, yeah, the book wasn’t written in the last eight months, it was, it took many, many years to come out with. And it is quite ironic that I turned in the book the week before we went into lockdown here in Los Angeles. However, it’s been so interesting going back, especially to the final chapter where so much of the concepts are reaffirmed as we have been pressed and challenged into these digital spaces, as some campuses like out here in, in California, the only means to deliver services and engagement has been online. So I would say to start really macro big picture kind of like you started to allude to with Mordecai is we have to answer the why that we do everything right now.

Josie Ahlquist:
And that also means why are you on Twitter? Or why do, why are people encouraging you to start a blog? And what would you want that impact to be? And not just to be blogging on medium because our time is taxed, but also I think it’s so important. Most all of the other work that we do, we have been guided and mentored and trained to be very purposeful. And I also put myself in the problem category at the beginning, maybe because I was such a champion for why a leader would want to be on Twitter or introducing people to you know, different new platforms, however, especially across higher education. We’ve seen lots of adoption. We have plenty of leaders out there, but we may actually have now bent further beyond, and just starting to do a lot of busy work or questioning.

Josie Ahlquist:
Like, why is it that I’m really on this tool? Because we also know the stakes are high. And we can unpack privilege and power in that same breadth that just getting on Twitter based on your identity and your position is actually a lot more complicated than we give it space for in training and dialogue, that social media shows up in all parts of our work, whether if you have to manage it as a professional or the ways that your students are integrating it, or how you’re thinking about integrating it into your career path. So this book was to say, this is an important topic, not just because we need to adopt these tools, if anything, we need to pull back and reflect and discern way, way more. And so from my research, I wanted to give a very flexible and fluid, not at all a recipe which were five guiding principles.

Josie Ahlquist:
And those include both skillsets that I’ve seen leaders in our field and including our guests today exemplifying, but also ones that I think we need to put more investment in. And the first one is ability to navigate change and accept that we can’t change some platforms and call others in for help. The second is we have to prioritize relationships and connections, and mom has already referred to that. I’m not surprised. Personalization is a third. You can call it authenticity, being genuine, being real, whatever word works for you, but we have to use these tools as humans and not robots. And then the big piece though, that I’ve seen a lot through my research is even the most public leaders in higher ed don’t have a documented strategy or how to evaluate it. And again, I think we’re far past the time we can continue to experiment, but we do need to document how this work is helping and what’s working or not. And then finally, the reason why I use leadership is there has to be a long-term intent, which I call legacy. What do you want to have happened on Twitter? Because you’ve chosen to be on it for 10, 20 years. What do you want to happen at the end of that time?

Keith Edwards:
And we’ve got for folks who are watching on YouTube, we’ve got this great graphic from the book, bringing all five of these principles together. We’ll get a link to that in the show notes as well. Tell us a little bit more about that. And I really want you to tell folks about Heartware.

Josie Ahlquist:
More about the model or heartware?

Keith Edwards:
Anything you want to add. I didn’t want to interrupt, but I also want to get you to nudging along to heartware.

Josie Ahlquist:
I mean, I would also, if I was this simplified even further, it’s about living out your values online. I’m not asking you to post every single thing of your day or your thoughts, but some people also like to express themselves and ask questions and discern, and maybe they’re a really good cook or they’re okay sharing their messy baking that they did. Because we hear a lot of talking down about social media that it’s less than. And so I wanted to share examples in the book of not just what the post was, but what the impact was or what the rationale behind it, because I don’t think that’s what we’re seeing things that happen behind the screen and the impact that lives on further. And that is why I chose to feature leaders in the field that could tell me those stories. Sure. I can give you the data and the examples, but I think the storytelling makes it so much more powerful. Again, knowing digital leadership is about people. It’s not about platform.

Keith Edwards:
Great. Well then you you’ve highlighted. I don’t know how many, it feels like dozens. You probably know the number leaders from college presidents and community colleges and the folks we have on today and others who are really going about. What I love is the leaders you’ve highlighted are going about their digital leadership in really varied ways. They’re not all going about it in this way or that way. Some are on very few platforms. Some are on many platforms, some are engaged personally. Some of them are just engaged professionally. But could you, since we have these wonderful guests here to talk about, and as exemplars, could you tell us why and how you included Montana Mordecai in the book?

Josie Ahlquist:
Absolutely.

Keith Edwards:
We will embarrass them a little bit.

Josie Ahlquist:
Yeah. Well, again, there’s no recipe and no right or wrong way with social media, digital leadership period. Right. So that is, and I also wanted to make sure that I was pulling in examples across the field and position types. I do think a separate book and research should be done on entry level and mid-level professionals. As I did have a deeper intent to get this in the hands of upper leadership is I think their influence can make a strong ripple effect at least where we are currently right now. And I know you were asking to get a little bit of insight into heartware and so heartware. So I get lots of ideas when I’m working out. This is a term that came to me on on the bike. Luckily there was no accidents to be had of, okay, we have this term software and hardware and awkward, like really tactile tech things, right.

Josie Ahlquist:
But we, as humans are entering, whether it’s your iPhone or logging into you know, like Canvas, as people with real emotions and lived experience. So what is our place in this tech space? And especially with the intent to approach a tool through leadership. And so this is where I started to work out this idea of heartware. And I started to think who are people that I’m already seeing living out this practice? And our early on motto was one of those that I found there was an early example of a screenshot that she shared from Yik Yak. And we all can like shudder at this platform, right? Like mostly problematic, right – anonymous tool. But Mamta sends out, at least when she was at Rollins, she sent out a message, every Halloween really encouraging her students to take care of each other and make good choices.

Josie Ahlquist:
As we know the challenges typically around that time. And one of her students assumingly posted a Yik Yak post saying how much, and that is in the book, how much they appreciated her as a leader and these messages that it really resonated. And, you know, on Yik Yak, you could up vote things. So it would raise higher up. And there were some comments. And to me, if I was, if that is one clue of leadership online is not even what you’re posting, but what your community is saying about you and they are reaffirming your practices. Like Mamta probably wasn’t on Yik Yak. I think it was sent to her by a staff member that, you know, like those that are always kind of looking out in the digital space as one metric that your leadership is resonating in quote unquote, this digital age. And so that doesn’t even mean if you’re on the tools or not, but I would also say Mamta over time, whether, you know, you have been active on tools or not, I would say I find you so grounding and, and living your values and calling others in to be approachable and relational that when you do choose to show up for, so for example, this last year Mamta has posted a few times on LinkedIn, in a blog written directly to student affairs educators using the words “I love you” like real words that we need to hear, right now.

Josie Ahlquist:
As professionals struggling in this field and also clearly communicating to a specific community. And there’s a variety of other examples out there, but that would be my one rationale and I could go on and on about Mamta, and, I’m really excited to hear from both of them in a little bit their reflections too. So Mordecai also exemplary Heartware where – I try to remember, like, where did I originally find folks? And it’s definitely always online, but Mordecai early on started a YouTube series. I really see him as a storyteller and content creator that embraces this idea of being in beta. If we go back to tech terms that let’s experiment on Instagram, I’m going to post these videos over here to see how they go and then, okay. It seems like maybe folks aren’t responding as much. I’m going to spend a little bit more time on Instagram stories and see how that goes.

Josie Ahlquist:
So I also think Mordecai applies his, his data and evaluate valuation into trying out different tactics on social media. And also he signals to his community, even in his tweets that he sends throughout the week. He says, “good morning educators” with some uplifting message and dialogue. And so I also think Mordecai’s a great example of of strategy. He has a set schedule of my goal is to post these specific days. This is the way I’ve integrated into my life because the other concern that I get from leaders is how the heck do I do this in practice? And I can give Mordecai as an example, because one might from the outside, see how active he is and be like, I could never do that, but okay, well, what are the, actually the simple ways that he’s built up over time to, to creating that types of content. So again, wanting to share a spectrum of examples of how that can look like in a variety of ways in a variety of platforms.

Keith Edwards:
Well, thanks so much for embarrassing these folks and setting them up. I love it. Two models that I aspire to, both of the examples cause you know, one of the things I want to do is be more, more consistent and I keep writing these strategies that you’re talking about and my failure is not in the strategy, but in the execution, not following through on that, but Mamta, maybe we’ll, we’ll go to you next. What is your, tell us a little bit about how you lead digitally, what are some of the real successes and the challenges and where’s your learning focus.

Mamta Accapadi:
Yeah. So thank you all so much. And so, you know, it’s an interesting I, I’m not sure I know how to answer this question well, but I’ll, I’ll start and let’s, you know, kind of see where this goes, you know until Josie kind of brought meaning to integrating, leading and leading digitally, I had never thought about the, the distinction, right. And so I think what I’m trying to grapple with is how do I show up authentically period? And then how does it manifest in these different platforms? But I didn’t realize that that, that was the experiment that I was engaging in because I didn’t have a digital leadership educator that I now have in somebody like Josie. Right. So to, to say, okay, now what is your, you know, what are your values now? What’s your intentionality by which you engage these values in this forum or in this space or sphere.

Mamta Accapadi:
Right? So in, in very much, it has been very experimental in a lot of ways and that’s fine, right? We, we learn by making mistakes and trying things differently or trying things that, that, that fit us differently. But to kind of begin answering your question I just, you know, we know Josie, when you were talking, I had this memory of when I first became a Dean of Students and so, and I had a newborn, so my daughter was a newborn at that time. So had a newborn moved to Oregon and started in this new role. So lots of life work, new role integrate all at the same time. And definitely was not thinking about the digital leadership at all at that point. But I want you to imagine my office, I, you know, so today I would have taken a picture of that office and shared it broadly. But imagine my office was full of Pampers boxes. And they were full of papers boxes because I try to overdo things, but Pampers boxes are the perfect. You can’t overfill them if you put books in them. So they’re not too heavy. So I like dozens of them all over the floor in my office, in addition to, it was really important to me as a mom. There was a comforter on the floor of my office.

Mamta Accapadi:
With some toys because oftentimes after daycare my daughter would be playing like on the floor while I was having, I was doing my job. And I remember a graduate student came into my office and in the college student services administration program at Oregon state at the time. And she, she looked at me and she was like, Oh my gosh. She was like, I think I can be a Dean of students. I was like, well, good for you. I was like, but you know, that’s just a random, like there was no entry into that conversation. And I said, what made you say that right here? And right now. And she said, your life is a mess.

Mamta Accapadi:
She was like, I thought you had it together and everything. I thought, you know, she was like, you seem so put together. And you know, when you, you know, you’re and you are, but it’s so refreshing to see your office with like all of this stuff all over the place. And, and, and then this all stuff that I was like, yeah, I was like, because that’s what this is like. And I’m so glad that my existence wasn’t curated for her. Right. And that she was able to see that, yes, we all have our pathway. We’re all negotiating components of messiness, whether you see it or don’t see it. And so she saw something there. Right. So when I think about the things, you know, when I have, I’m not sure that I always have something meaningful to say, right. And so I tried doing the blog thing, but then it’s like, Oh, the consistency of the blog thing doesn’t work because I don’t, I don’t have these curated nuggets of wisdom on a regular basis in a way that I think is effective or others might be as effective, but would have somebody to say, I want to say it.

Mamta Accapadi:
And so the LinkedIn platform allowed for that. I grapple a lot with motherhood, right. Or motherhood and the integration of this work. That’s a very significant component of everything, no matter what has happened in my life. So you see a lot of that on Instagram, the negotiation of that, because I want us to be honest about what it means to negotiate all of the things better as we’re trying to discern our sense of purpose and existence in a relationship with one another. So I was just chuckling because a couple of weeks ago, right. Like my daughter and I, we were like the Indian Gilmore girls. Right. So the banter looks very similar, so it, as much as I can kind of present that, that’s what ends up happening. And there was truly a time where she, she took a picture of me as I was on my phone. Right. And, and, and, and, and she does this kind of

Keith Edwards:
Busted!

Mamta Accapadi:
Yeah. And she’ll be like, You know, photo, exhibit, mother, blatantly ignoring daughter on phone. And so it’s funny, but it’s true, like are the truths in our lives. And, but how do we forgive ourselves, love ourselves, love one another through those truths. And so so I just, I just put that out there.

Keith Edwards:
I love this because I think a lot of the criticism of social media is that it is the highlight reel of everybody’s lives. And we get in real trouble comparing your highlight reel to my, behind the scenes footage, which is a mess and a disaster. And you’re really pointing to the power for you has been sharing the messiness as a way of leading and sharing. Like, look, you don’t have to have all put together. You can have a little bit of messiness and they authenticity. And I think that’s what I’ve been drawn to you in your posts is the curiosity, the learning, the unlearning, the authenticity, and the sense of humor, you have really opens up possibilities for others. And it’s such a reminder about how, what a mistake it is to put out the finished polished product cause that’s unrelatable. Right. And I love the story about the grad student that, that your messiness was such a transformative thing for that person.

Josie Ahlquist:
I also think it documents – well redefining leadership or what it means to be a parent. It means still like, can you take your children to the workplace?

Keith Edwards:
We just brought the workplace to the children.

Josie Ahlquist:
Right. I’d also be curious, maybe that was per perspective too, of like making space and role modeling that behavior. And yeah.

Mamta Accapadi:
Yeah, I think so. So the, the questions that I’ve been able to kind of like, as, as I heard, y’all talking, like, I think within social media, I think sometimes we focus on how, how we want to be seen right. Versus how we see ourselves and the negotiation of the tension around those things. Right. Because I mean, I’ll be, I want people to see me as whatever professional means and put together incredible and all those things, but that’s just totally not how I see myself.

Mamta Accapadi:
Right. That’d be like, I mean, I mean, we, we have a tradition called laundry mountain on, you know, on Friday night and it has like, That’s just part of the thing. And so I, I wish that I could have these curated moments, but it’s not, but, but there’s so much laughter in the messiness and I just think we need more laughter and more connection.

Keith Edwards:
Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful, wonderful. Mordecai, can you tell us a little bit about this strategy that Josie mentioned? And also I was hearing in, in, in her bragging on you about your real your real willingness to be innovative and creative and dabble and experiment and trial and error and see what happens.

Mordecai Brownlee:
Yeah. You know, so a lot of this for me goes back to what was my passions when I first started school. So when I first started at, at a community college back then I had this aspiration pop culture was at an all time high. I just knew I was going to be the next VJ on MTV. Right. I just knew that BET was just waiting for me to show up. Right. And then of course I am the the generation inspired by Real WQorld, right. The very first real world. Okay. So, you know, you know, you going through this and this is, what’s feeding you from a pop culture, but a learning and environmental standpoint. So then you show up to the classroom and it’s kind of like, I’m ready to be a star. This is not for me. But I ended up learning about mass communication to television and radio and started getting into doing some of that work.

Mordecai Brownlee:
And I really enjoyed it. But along the way, working a federal work study job, I started to realize working in student life that wow, there is work to be done where you can empower people. And then at that time we hadn’t necessarily tagged the term transferable skillsets. It wasn’t necessarily floating around in the air at that time, but I began to realize how you can integrate these various pieces of talent and passions, and then move this into a space that we call higher education and be able to do some good work. So a lot of, I would say in terms of strategy, you know, for a while, I did some of that television radio work, but then when the bug really bit me for higher education, I was, it was a wrap for me. I was, I was just, just overtaken by the ability of what you could do to transform someone’s life, no matter what their background was or what they had experienced in life, your, your, your moment with them could totally change the trajectory of their life, of the life, of their family.

Mordecai Brownlee:
So I was done at that point, but a lot of those elements that I learned I brought over, so then it became, okay, well, when it comes to it, starting for me, I was a, I was a director, student, student leadership and engagement. And we were sending out these notices to the student college community about, Hey, we have these events going on for the week. Nobody was reading these emails. And so heartbroken. I think I found myself crying one night in student union or something. I’m kidding. I’m kidding. When I say that, I said, you know, what, how about we start doing these videos? And I got what I’m marketing team. And I says, if folks, aren’t going to read what we have to say, let’s do a video fast forward, started doing these videos. And they started catching on and the college committee started watching them.

Mordecai Brownlee:
And I started integrating students into these videos. And then I moved on from that institution after serving almost five years and moved on to another institution, took the idea there. And that’s when they said, well, hold on, you know, let’s give this show a name and let’s call it the it’s Dr. Mordecai show. Like, okay, well, cool. Let’s do it. And so we started doing this and we started pulling other students in and doing these interviews different ways around campus. And so during that period was when I realized that from a resource standpoint, I had some very talented colleagues that were willing to try this with me as a blog idea, video blog idea, and which that’s when we went into the studio and just started recording these segments where it was encouraging the student affairs profession was encouraging educators and giving some perspective and things to think about.

Mordecai Brownlee:
And it just kind of took off from there. So I think, gosh, this has been maybe three, four years of doing this. But it is spun off into some amazing situations and opportunities. And that’s how I’m been able to meet, you know, key individuals like Josie and Mamta and yourself Keith, and just being able to create this community, because I think done in the right spirit each and every one of us in our own way, do something to shape the academy, something to encourage something to promote. And in my personal mission, now there’s enough junk and garbage out there for folks to gravitate to. How about we began to expose people to the positivities of life. How about me being a parent and coming from a single parent home, coming to the, my wife is from a single parent home where now attempting to be, you know I have a successful marriage and to do so now being successful parents and being able to showcase what that looks like and give people these positive images and opportunities to be able to relate, be encourage. I think we all can do something to elevate others.

Keith Edwards:
Well, I love this bringing in this passion, the TV and radio, and being on MTV and not giving that up, but integrating that in. How do you bring this interest into what you’re doing now? I’d love to hear too. I think Josie mentioned the, the strategy. Do you have, do you have a schedule? Do you have a strategy for putting content out? How do you, how do you, how do you do this magic where nobody thinks they could do all of that, but you pull it off,

Mordecai Brownlee:
You know, and a lot of trial and error, I think a lot of trial and error. And I think that folks, I would encourage anybody watching or listening to this, be willing to try a few things. And I think it also goes back to your why, right? And this Josie talks about this in her book. You need to know why you’re doing this and, and be in tune with that. Why for me, I want it to make the largest impact on an order for me to make the largest impact I need to study. Where does the impact come in? So for educators, folks are getting their day started. They’re not trying to get out of bed. The coffee machine hadn’t necessarily kicked off yet. Well, what about a good morning educators message. And then that came through trial and error and it works, the videos, I’ve tried different things in terms of how I integrate them.

Mordecai Brownlee:
You know, in LinkedIn now has a new newsletter functionality that I’ve been really utilizing. That’s been doing very well, because it does a lot of the footwork for me in terms of getting the message out, which is very different than just posting a post, the newsletter, you have subscribers and it emails for you. And so I think studying, just understanding what social media does. Cause again, I’m going back to, you know, when Facebook was, you had to apply to be on Facebook and they had to prove you are the MySpace generation. That’s kind of like, okay, well you figure out what’s going to make an impact, what people want to watch and look, and then you create that space and do something, but it all does tie back to the why. So the strategy for me, I don’t automate any of this. It’s me doing it.

Josie Ahlquist:
I think another element to feature related to strategy is from my knowledge, Monica has invested in some support, either built into a campus he’s been at, or maybe a graphic designer editor. And I do, I don’t think every single Vice President or Dean needs like a social media manager. However, if you aspire to a presidency or chancellor, we are seeing those support systems being created. So maybe for you, that looks like someone that is helping you build some stuff in advance or at least helping you discern what that strategy is or holding you accountable to those elements. If it really is that intent, if this is a goal for you, you do need to put in time and maybe, you know, a few quarters and dive into it. And or the time like Mordecai had said that, that he invests certain pieces of time.

Mamta Accapadi:
Can I add to that? I think so. I guess what I would say, having transitioned into a new role for, for any wisdom and perspective that I can offer in, in this, in this closing out this first semester in a new role at a new institution, I can’t underscore enough what Josie is saying right now. And, and, and I think, you know, we like to think, you know, we like to think that we’re experts in certain things. And we are like, I think I’m more practiced in certain dimensions of the functional areas within I work. I am not practiced in digital leadership strategy. I need to be honest with myself about that. Right. And, and actually what just a few weeks ago, I did reach out to Josie and said, you know what, I need some coaching here. Right. And I want, because I want to be in, there are things that I know how to do, but there are things that I want to be embedded and I want to be intentional and I need mentorship around how to do that. So I think there’s just a great opportunity for us to be vulnerable and courageous in how we do this work. Right.

Josie Ahlquist:
Well, and I also think to be honest, is your time best spent creating certain pieces of content or, you know, doing the million other things that you need to be doing in your role, like, just like you would have support systems and other functions of your position, you might have these resources built into your organization, or, or you might not Tim Miller Vice President at James Madison, he has trained and developed trust with a student that helps them create some graphics and have some consistency there collaborates with his main communications office to do some videos. So some of it might be you asking for some help from resources that may already exist on campus. Right.

Keith Edwards:
I’m so glad you mentioned that because I think there’s people can get as Mamta mentioned support from experts like you on strategy and the why and the big picture and in different platforms, but then also staff on campus, whether it’s the communications department, or I love this idea of a student who may be, you know, I filmed this video this morning. Can you edit it down? Or I need a graphic for this, or here’s the thing I drew. Can you make that look good? And as I’ve worked with different campuses I’ve seen so many great visuals. I’m like, wow, who did that? We have a student worker who answers the phones and she just was like, I’d love to, that’s awful. Can I please fix it for you? And so I think there’s, there’s a wide variety of different supports and resources that can help you do that. And as you were saying, you know, what’s the best time maybe it is for you Mordecai. It is really worth your time to record the video, but then maybe have someone edit and transcribe it before it goes out or things like that. Or what does that look like? So there’s lots of different possibilities.

Josie Ahlquist:
Well, and I am glad videos came up because the trend and the need that I’ve seen during COVID is we do need leaders to show up on video. Whether if it’s on zoom or a live stream, I do the written word is powerful and emails when done well can be strategic and come through, but we also know emails. Aren’t the end all. And I have found, especially if you’re trying to connect with young adults and teens, I mean, even, even online or adult learners, videos can communicate emotions and it to see your reaction. When you say something, especially if it’s ha hard information to share like we won’t be coming back together in January, or we have to cut. I mean, you also need to honor your community by, you might be uncomfortable by doing that, and you need to have some skills and ask for some help, but it actually is a, is an action to, again, like honor your community. They deserve to hear and see me show up in this way.

Keith Edwards:
Yeah, I agree. I think videos are powerful. I’m also seeing as we are in this low tech strategies start to work. So I, I worked with a team that was doing, they had done leadership workshops in their student union and in social distancing and keeping it, it was just no one was showing up and it was really difficult. So they went to their workshops, became emails and they could reach such a wider variety and you know, good emails with links and videos and embedded and really well done. And their engagement just went up. So I think, you know, how do we think about what’s our purpose again? What are we trying to accomplish? And then what’s the best way to go about that rather than I just love videos. So let’s just video. Right. But I think you’re right. The vulnerability and the emotion of some of these things needs to tend to that,

Mordecai Brownlee:
You know, if I can throw one thing in there in terms of just, just advice for anybody that’s watching this or listening to this and saying, okay, well, how do I, you know, I want to do this work. How do I get involved in this work? You know, one of the things I will tell you is never underestimate the power of partnership at your college campus at your university. So one of the things that I did was when I first started my Twitter account I went, had a meeting with our marketing team at the college, through the university. I was working at that particular time and said, okay, part of what I want to do is have students to know that as their Dean, I’m going to be providing information, are you all willing to retweet some of my messages in which that then became the partnership? So I would share information. That’s how I was able to build followers that were my currently enrolled students at our residential campus, and I was able to share information in those videos directly strategically with them. So partnership, communication, there’s so many different ways to create synergy.

Keith Edwards:
Right? Thank you for that. That’s another, another great way to engage partnerships and particularly students. Well, we’re running out of time. I wish we had more time because there’s so much more to talk about. So I really appreciate all of you. And as we conclude this podcast is called Student Affairs Now. So we always like to end with hearing from each of you, what are you, what are you really thinking about now on this topic? What’s kind of on the cusper really, you’re not quite sure about this. So what are some of the things that, that you all are thinking about in this moment? That’s really a live for you around digital leadership. Josie, I’m curious what, what you’re learning now. I mean, you wrote this book a while ago and you’re having all these conversations. What’s kind of emerging for you now that maybe isn’t in there.

Josie Ahlquist:
Well, I think reflecting back both what came from the book and conversations that have come since, because I’ve been doing these live stream book club series with some folks that are featured in the book is I feel like the framework again, if you get mixed up with digital and social media, part of it, if we even think about digital transformation is transforming what we define leadership to be in higher ed, what we aspire to our leaders to be able to both in skill set and in philosophy have going forward. And some of that is technical skills that we need, but some of it is that philosophy in a really grounded. So, so yeah, we are seeing a lot more presidents and chancellors and provosts on these platforms. Those are signals and social signals, right. But I think what we need to see next is actually the investment in, in the knowledge and the training.

Josie Ahlquist:
And not just the expectation, like, well, you just have to go and hopefully figure that out because at the same time, we know when maybe someone takes a misstep that that is very public and potentially life changing. If one tweet, right. Wasn’t quite uniformed with that campus organization. So again, I just can’t stress enough how intentional we need to have these conversations, this education, because there’s, again, there’s no, there’s no right or wrong way to do it. I also don’t want folks to feel like they need to get onto all these platforms now that you’ve heard lots of tools thrown around. Cause I that’s, when I get the glaze look and people to check out, I would say though, as a student affairs professional, you at least need to know what tools your people are on. And I would say if these are teens, young adults and emerging adults, cool adults, maybe like me, you should know about Tik TOK and Reddit. And Lord, maybe even parlor like tools that are out there at least have knowledge of what they are in case. And when they do start to become part of our work of our knowledge.

Keith Edwards:
Thank you, Mamta. So what are you thinking about around digital leadership now?

Mamta Accapadi:
You know so Josie captured my favorite, one of my favorite words, which is intentional, right? And so that, that is, this is not something like, there’s a difference between having a full blown out strategy, which that’s exciting as well. And even if you don’t have that just underscoring the, what is your, why that we’ve all been talking about, but how are we intentional about what it is that we’re doing? For me who I continue to, I think unfold into, in myself as the evolution of as a person is I just keep asking myself, how do our students know we love them? You know, and what are the, I love you moments. And I realized that maybe they don’t want to hear from me. Like maybe they do.

Mamta Accapadi:
Maybe they, don’t what I’m finding a lot of joy in right now, a different kind of joy is working with a staff, right? Because our staff know how to love our students and they need to be replenished and their spirits need to be loved and nurtured. And so, I don’t know, I just, I keep looking for the, I love you moments and the opportunity to radiate. I love you moments. And I think that’s, that’s just where it’s filling selfishly it’s filling for me, but, but it very much connects to my why.

Keith Edwards:
Beautiful, beautiful. Mordecai, what’s what’s on the cusp of your awareness and learning these days.

Mordecai Brownlee:
You know, I think as we head into this next decade of higher education, and I think about all of the transformation that’s about to happen in the next few years, as we just look at the industry, the amount of, of new leadership coming in the, the, the accelerated rates of retirement that’s about to happen in the next five years is just about to be just scary. I’ll use the word scary, right? And as we continue to shape this new environment and the new expectancies of educators, I think to a point that Josie was making it’s so important, now that digital leadership become a part of the training of educators. It has to be right. And this, this idea that that I have is, is we’ve been so used to, as we talk about making our way to an institution taking on a new opportunity, we always talk about fit. Well, now we’re entering into this period now where we have to talk about digital fit. What is your footprint and how have you been carrying yourself in these digital engagements? And does that actually align with the thoughts and beliefs and the values of the institution? So I think that even this whole idea about fit now is going to transform because we’re heading into a new space that we all as educators need to be prepared.

Keith Edwards:
Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Well, thank you all so much. I’m so grateful for all of your time and being with us today as guests on Student Affairs Now. I want to conclude thanking our sponsor, Stylus who also published this book. You can get 30% off and free shipping if you use the discount code SANOW, so go buy it from Styluspub.com.

Keith Edwards:
You can receive reminders about this and other episodes by subscribing to the Student Affairs Mow, newsletter or browse our archives at StudentAffairsNow.com. Please subscribe to the podcast, invite others to subscribe, share on social as specially, as digital leaders or leave a five star review. It really helps conversations like this. Reach more folks and build a community so we can continue to make this free for you. Again, I’m Keith Edwards. Thanks again to our fabulous guests today, and everyone who is watching and listening, make it a great week. Thanks. All.

• Book Website: https://www.josieahlquist.com/digitalleadership/
• Meet all the features: https://www.josieahlquist.com/digitalleadership/features/
• The #DigLead Book Club series: https://www.josieahlquist.com/2020/10/28/diglead-book-club/
• Join the digital community for book readers (and supporters): The Digital Leadership Network: https://digitalleadership.mn.co/