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Amanda Knerr
And really appreciate that piece about community. Because for me, ACPA has always been about getting involved and being able to work together. And it doesn’t, you don’t have to be a senior level professional in order to hop in and contribute, I was able to get involved as a brand new professional. And in the process of getting involved, I was able to learn and gain knowledge and gain experiences, from the senior level administrators that were coming along, teaching me pulling me along and saying you can do this, let’s try this, let me introduce you to this person, let me introduce you to this opportunity.

Keith Edwards
Hello, and welcome to Student Affairs now, I’m your co host, Keith Edwards. I’m also joined today by my co host, Gudrun Nyunt will be here who you will hear from in a little bit. Today we’re discussing professional involvement, engagement and ongoing learning. As part of this 13 episode series for ACPA’s 100th anniversary and a partnership between ACPA and Student Affairs now, I’m joined by some ACPA leaders who have been engaged in a variety of different ways to help us see multiple paths toward learning, growth and professional development. I’m so looking forward to this conversation. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and online learning community for 1000s of us work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays find details about this episode or browser archives. It’s studentaffairsnow.com. Today’s episode is sponsored by ACPA, an independent 501 C three nonprofit association, which is sponsoring this special 13 episode series was Student Affairs NOW to celebrate its 100th anniversary boldly transforming higher education. As I mentioned, I’m your co host, Keith Edwards, my pronouns are he him his. I’m a speaker, author and coach. I help leaders and organizations make transformative change for leadership, learning and equity. You can find out more about me at Keith edwards.com. And I’m recording this today from Minneapolis, Minnesota, my home at the intersections of the ancestral and current homelands of both the Dakota and the Ojibwe peoples.

Gudrun Nyunt
Alright, hello, everyone. My name is Gudrun Nyunt, and I use she her pronouns. I’m an assistant professor and program coordinator of the Higher Education and Student Affairs Program at Northern Illinois University. I also have the honor of serving on the ACP at 100 core committee, and ACPs Leadership Council. And so I’m joining you today from Northern Illinois University, which occupies the homeland of the council of the three fires. And so I’m thrilled to have three wonderful guests here, who have a wealth of experiences in terms of getting involved learning, growing as professionals. And so why don’t we start with some introductions, if you could please introduce yourself with your pronouns and share just a little bit about yourself? And So Amanda, do you want to get us started?

Amanda Knerr
Thank you so much. Hi, my name is Amanda Knerr. And I currently have the pleasure of serving as the Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Director of Housing and Residence Life at Ball State University. Prior to my time at Ball State University, I served as the Executive Director of Residential Life at Indiana State University, and before that, spent some time at Penn State University. I’m so excited to be here today and join the conversation.

Gudrun Nyunt
Thank you, Amanda. Yasas. Do you want to go next?

Yasas Vithanage
Yes, thank you. Hi. My name is Yasas Vithanage, he, him, his currently serving as an assistant director for residence life. I do a lot of the Jedi programming here at my institution. were originally from Sri Lanka came to the United States to actually be an aerospace engineer. So I I market myself, I guess, as Student Affairs engineer, so thinking about problems in a different way. It’s helped me a lot in my professional career. And hopefully I get to share a little about about that today.

Gudrun Nyunt
Yeah, that’s awesome. Thank you. Yeah, and Kelvin.

Kelvin Rutledge
Hi everybody, my name is Kelvin Rutledge, I use he him his pronouns. I currently serve as the Associate Vice President for Institutional inclusive strategies and change management at southern Connecticut State University, which sits on the traditional homelands of the Quinnipiac people’s. I’m an interesting hair transplant, I had a corporate career and fast food management for almost six years, and then decided that fries and shakes worked for me and transition to higher ed back in 2011. And I’ve worked at a variety institutions up until now. So just very happy to be here.

Gudrun Nyunt
Awesome. Thank you. It’s so great to have all three of you here. And so all of you are engaged with ACPA. Right in lots of different ways. And so for our first question, can you tell us a little bit about some of the ways you’ve engaged with a CPA to further your own professional growth? And Kelvin, why don’t you get us started for this question?

Kelvin Rutledge
Well, so I’ll talk about, I guess, four big buckets of my ACPA journey, definitely. So I think as a general member, I’ve had the opportunity to participate in some phenomenal Institute education. So my introduction to ACPA first was not the convention, it was an institute on social justice on a campus. So really, that targeted communal based learning that really launched me into that experience, and then also participating in the mid level managers Institute as well. So finding that community finding that holistic learning. The second bucket, like many people is the annual convention. So I’ve had the privilege of serving on four separate convention teams, most notably serving as the ACPA 2020 convention chair So thinking about large scale learning and development for a variety of individuals across their career, when I think about the third bucket, I think about really engaging in the entity groups of ACPA. So serving with a Pan African network and their directorate board, and the Commission for Career Services. And then the fourth bucket, really, most notably, most recently is sitting on the ACPA Governing Board, which has now transitioned to the ACPA Leadership Council. So on the governing board, I served as the Director of Professional Development, and now I serve as the Vice President for Strategic Initiatives. I think through all four of those buckets and lenses, I think what I’ve probably learned a lot is really thinking about the skills that maybe my day to day job isn’t giving me and how do I need to think differently about higher education? Right, so Institute’s giving me knowledge, that convention, planning teams and governing board leadership council given me those skills, and then just other opportunities to get to and learn and grow and think differently about how to do the day to day. So all of those intersections over the past 12 years have kind of showed up and very fun and unique ways.

Gudrun Nyunt
Yeah, that’s awesome. And I love how you describe it as the buckets, right? Because there’s all these different ways in which we, we can get engaged and learn and grow as professionals. Awesome. Yasas. Do you want to tell us a little bit about your engagement and ACPA?

Yasas Vithanage
Yeah, just to comment on on Calvin’s I mean, 2021 a year to be the convention, chair, right, you said, but I saw Kelvin last year host a panel, and I was like, This guy’s dynamic. So I’ve been just enthralled by so far. So for me. So I currently serve as the ACPA Michigan. So Michigan State chapter president, only for a couple more months, but we’ve had the opportunity in the last year to revive the chapter. And it’s been one of the rewarding pieces of my work, mainly, because I think we talked about this big convention, being part of our, you know, how we gather, but it’s not always accessible, and, you know, space and time and, and money. And those state chapters, I really believe are a good place to find that in between learning, especially for the state level issues that would go on without the national conventions. But you know, we talked about very broad topics, or, you know, very specific states or issues. And so, it’s very good to talk about these in small, small spaces like that in small community. So I’ve really enjoyed that. It’s very, it’s been very rewarding to get my staff, my a couple grad students who are just trying to figure out where they want to go, or what development even means for them outside of the classroom, or their assistantships if they have them. And so very rewarding for me that way. For sure, my I, currently, I’m this newly formed, training and development working council that started I think, this last week, a way that acba 24. So part of that, and part of that if if folks who are listening, who are interested in becoming entity leaders, or chapter leaders, we’re talking about how we develop leaders within the organization. But also, you know, when you go back to your home institutions, how do you train trainers, right, so we were excited for that we love the opportunity. And also, you know, part of my engagement has been with some of those Institute’s so, for me, I went to institute on the curricular approach where, you know, I saw Keith here a couple years ago, and I was like, This guy’s dynamic. Gotta hold of a lot of good knowledge there. But, you know, going to the assessment institutes, and using all that skill to bring back to my home institution, so I had the luxury and the privilege of working in some big institutions, we have a lot of resources, but also work in a small private, where you wear multiple hats, and so that learning and development really translates to taking that back home and to your incidents, like, hey, we could do this with a little bit of effort, we could really make our lives easier. Like if we assess this, we can really see, you know, you know, we’re putting energy so we don’t waste time or we can create a curriculum here. So, you know, we can have a high impact on students. And so ACC has been a place where I can grow to bring back home. And part of my current role as president for ASB in Michigan is bringing, you know, national level stuff to state level stuff so people can take it their home institution and do the same. So it’s been rewarding and really, you know, loving, engaging with ACPA all the time.

Gudrun Nyunt
Yeah, that’s wonderful. And I love that you brought up the grad student piece, right, as a faculty member in higher ed that I often think about that of how do I get my students engaged in professional association? And it is tricky, right? Like this year convention was in Chicago, and so that lend itself to actually bringing a group of students to Chicago, but that’s not usually possible, right? Like we’re already talking about long beach next year, and we’re like, I don’t know about funding. for grad students, right, and so state chapters are really a great opportunity to get grad students and younger professionals who might not have the funding engaged. Now, Amanda, can you tell us a little bit about your engagement in ACPA?

Amanda Knerr
Sure. So you know, I was thinking about this over the weekend. And when I was a grad student, I connected with a professional on my campus, who was in institutional research and academic assessment, and having an opportunity to connect around assessment during my two years of grad school. So then when I moved into an entry level, professional position, I thought, well, I want to be able to get involved in ACPA and not really sure how to do it. And I remember getting an email about applying to be a director or member with the Commission for assessment and evaluation. Now, granted, I had very little assessment experience, I was in my first year as a full time role. But I said, Well, why not I’ll go ahead and throw my name in the hat, what can go wrong, like, they’ll vote and if I get, and I get in, and if I don’t, then I’ll try something else, and ended up on the directory board as a first year professional, looking around a room or a virtual meeting with all these just giants in the field who are doing this amazing assessment work. And so my first experience in AICPA was sitting on a director at board and participating in the ways in which I had the skill set at the time doing the poster for the convention, commission showcase, or doing putting some PowerPoint slides together for ASCE standards, doing some things like that, well, I was able to really learn from the professionals who had been doing assessment for a lot longer than I had. And I really found a community and home with that group. And so I just continued, ran, again, was a directorate member for another term. And then was asked if I would run for chair and ended up being chair for the commission for assessment and evaluation for a few years, which allowed me to really participate in the assessment Institute, which allowed me to teach in the assessment Institute. And it was actually part of that directorate meeting where all the commission chairs were together, and I got snagged coming back from lunch. And they said, the person I talked to said, Hey, we’re trying to find a host for this new institute Call Residential curriculum Institute, Penn State’s hosted before will you host and so that introduced me to residential curriculum Institute, I call my boss and she said sure why now we can host it at Penn State. And so I was thrown into this group of people planning this institute, I didn’t know any of them. I didn’t really know residential curriculum was at the time, um, and showed up at Macalester, having not really met, the planning team had a great experience hosted on our campus for a number of years. And it propelled me into more than 10 years now working on the Institute on curricular approaches a faculty member being able to chair that institute on a couple of different occasions, and really find a community a home and a learning organization ACPA. I think other ways that I was involved volunteering at convention, serving as a program reviewer for convention, I was able to edit a monograph around the AP standards as a young professional. And that was a really cool experience to be able to work with in editors and book authors. And get that that published over the years, some webinars and just doing some million different ways defined that fit with my skill set and felt with my interest and allow me to get back to ACPA and in return get a ton from ACPA.

Keith Edwards
I love that, Amanda, because that’s how I know you. And I know most of that journey, but remembering you being on the commission for assessment, when Gavin Henning was the chair and connecting in so many different ways. But I as I’m hearing you all, I remember my own journey, being convention teams and doing the Institute and being a commission chair and starting the commission for social justice educators. And I think some of the question I’m gonna invite you each to is what have been some of your most powerful learning experiences, beyond formal learning experiences. So beyond grad programs beyond classroom beyond degrees, what have been some of the powerful learning experiences and I think many of the things you all have pointed to. The thing I want to add is just the relationships, the people who you meet, because you’re stuck on a project with and then you get to know and then you see them again, and now you’re having dinner and now you’re swapping pictures of kids. And then when you’re in that town, you’re meeting up with them and just the conversations over dinner over a cup of coffee, over tears, and the people you get to know and those relationships. So in many ways those those experiences those roles, I think are really incredible learning experiences, but then they’re often an avenue to meet incredible people who then really foster the learning experiences. We were joking before we hit record that I saw Kelvin a hole Lunch last week at ACPA. We never talked, but he was so busy talking with so many people and all of the relationships and connections that can be really powerful. So long segue to a question, Amanda, we’re going to start with you. But when you think about some of your most powerful learning experiences, beyond formal education, and beyond grad programs, and classrooms and degrees, which you’ve got a few, what have been some of your most powerful learning experiences that really helped you grow? Yeah,

Amanda Knerr
well, I really appreciate what you just said, Keith. Um, for me, it has been truly about the connections and the people. I think back to being a young professional on the commission for assessment evaluation, and you mentioned Gavin Hatem was president, getting an opportunity to interact with him being mentored by him to learn about the work that we’re doing in the professional association, was a huge learning opportunity for me, being able to watch him lead very publicly, but also know him on a personal level really showed me some of the skill sets, why it’s important to connect the importance of relationships, the importance of networking. And that was a huge piece for me. Over the years, as I’ve been involved with Institute on curricular approach, it’s truly been those connections with people that I’ve learned the most from, we’ll have a planning team meeting. And we’ll get on a topic that’s a hot topic in higher ed and student affairs, and have a totally separate conversation. And I walk away saying, Wow, something from that conversation is going to make me a better professional today, it’s going to make me a better professional tomorrow, being able to call a colleague and say, Hey, this is happening on our campus. What are you doing about that on your campus has been really, really huge. And I think about those moments and small groups and large groups, and one on one conversations, and Institute’s at convention. And those are the moments in the hallways, where I tend to learn the most, not only about people as human beings, but about how to be a better professional, how to give back to the field in more ways, and and just how to really impact our students and how they’re learning. That’s been a huge part of ACPA for me.

Keith Edwards
Awesome. And Yasas, you’re here, because Heather Shea won’t shut up about how great you are. So you clearly you’ve made a connection there, and just keeps recommending you around this, but what have been some of your powerful learning experiences?

Yasas Vithanage
Heather’s embarrassing me, really. But I appreciate it. And I appreciate that she sees good me. So trying to live up to that standard, for sure. But I want to jump off what you said about the people connecting and calling people and asking how things are done, or what’s happening in their spaces. You know, my scope is very institutional, and very rarely, outside my institution, you know, in some of these calls, like, just asking, you know, if you’re within your institution, you know, another department or division, how you doing stuff. So having, I think you mentioned is having dinner, having a coffee, I mean, dinner is not always an option, but a coffee or just walking up to the office. But like, I have a question. You know, it just seems connected. I’m working with the student, I have a question about how this works. I just want to learn to ask, just curious. So I’ve had a lot of good opportunities that way, or that our leadership office, or equity and belonging, office and financial aid office, things that, you know, we think we learned in grad school, but really how people navigate these spaces for students are very different in different contexts. And so asking them and then asking them, you know, how things were but also how can I help you, you know, what do you need help with? So gaining a lot of institutional connection? And so when you send a send a student somewhere, or you have a question or a thought, you connected to a person, and especially with issues around our, you know, our field, just getting to know a lot of people and knowing what they’re interested or what their life story is. So you can say, hey, like, I know, it’s important to you yet, something’s happening around the world, that status is important to you build that connection, and, you know, careful those people, or, you know, send a student to someone who might have a shared identity. It is important, and those are the best learning moments I have outside of the classroom. So it’s really allowed me to like, build. So I would say one of the, a couple of proud moments I’ve had in my career outside of the classroom, been able to build a residential curriculum, work for Stetson University. We build the residential curriculum from scratch. So one thing I asked my boss was like, Hey, can I go to the assessment Institute? It’ll help me you know, assess in what we’re doing, because we had learning outcomes that were not really learning outcomes. We had, you know, program, a programming model, and we were telling it’s a curriculum, so I was like, I know this is not what you’re supposed to like. So went to the assessment Institute, and then realized, you know, part of it is getting other stakeholders. So all the other stakeholders, you know, career development, you know, student involvement, you know, go Greek life. So get building those connections. And so by the end of the two years, we were able to build this semi like divisional curriculum where we were sending students to the right opportunities that are on campus. And that really wouldn’t have happened if I wasn’t curious about those folks. In those spaces. What are you actually doing in your work, so we can be good partners to each other. And here are one of the biggest wins, or I guess two of the biggest wins that I’ve had here is we’ve been rewriting our bias response protocol and gender closed housing. And that includes multiple offices and stakeholders that includes those students as well that are impacted by it. So being curious about like, what is your experience? What are you interested in? What’s going in around your world, because you can’t care about everything all the time, because you’d be exhausted. And my workout I do, you know, justice work in our department, I’m exhausted all the time. But when people will have a story to share. And I know what to care about other people, allows me to absorb the information and share those stories, you know, with their permission as a place for learning for everybody. So truly enjoy those spaces. And yeah, coffee, for sure. For sure.

Keith Edwards
I love how you’re talking about all these things you’ve learned and then applying it on your campus. It’s really useful. And I also love how you’re talking about it was like a two year journey. But it’s not yes or no, it was when and then all of a sudden, I got it. And now I know how to do it. And all my this some of this learning takes time and going from knowing to doing and implementing, I think is great. And also that word you use curiosity. Right? It really opens up the possibility for a lot of learning, learning. Kelvin, how about you what stands out to you when you think of some of your most powerful learning experiences?

Kelvin Rutledge
Yeah, all the things right. Like, it’s it’s such a big question. And I think that’s what’s like makes us fun. I think I’m gonna focus on three things. So one, I mean, I attended ACPAs mid level management institute. And I think one of the most powerful experiences was really sitting with the question around. What would management supervision and leadership look like when you center humanity? Right? And inviting us to really contend with that, with power comes the ability to create harm? And if you’re not intentional, right? How could we be a detriment to our own field, and really having to grapple that with like community of your peers and a small group facilitator, right? Of sitting with like, oh, like, not only is it just a positional power, it’s the human power. It’s the relational power. And I think it was really one of the first invitations to really think of mid level and even senior level positions in a different way, right? That if you choose to embark on this journey, what does it mean to release into the people in that process? And then that journey to I think the second opportunity now name, as just convention is great, right? As someone who did for commitment teams, I obviously love it. But I think I love and appreciate the convention team experience for two reasons. So one, I really valued my ability to really sit with cross generational teams, so that people who can provide that historical legacy, and the historical like perspective, but then also be intention of what we could reimagine for the future, right? I think the beauty of serving as the 2020 convention chair was inviting a conversation that we could imagine something different, we could do think differently about the conversations and the experiences we co Create and Cultivate together. But then also in the same vein, like you get to really see what it feels like to do this really robust thing in real time, right? So I appreciate Yes, this, like you named like this piece of like dynamic engagement in pieces. You know, 2020 was a year of all the things right, but even in the year of all the things experiencing a tornado in the middle of a convention, and responding to it in real time just gives you a different level of what does it mean to show up to people and to do right? So I just appreciate it like those experiences of being collective and understanding. And I think the third thing, and this is where ACPA becomes really definitive, for me, was the opportunity to really find my scholarly voice. So because of the relationships and introductions I had met with the Coalition for disability, I was invited to contribute to a book chapter, really thinking about creative inclusivity while providing accommodation, right? And so finding this notion of the practice from the work that we do can’t be scholarly as well and that we have a responsibility to also contribute to that narrative. And I just appreciated the invitation to say like, no, no, no, you can be a practitioner scholar like you have nothing to offer For, and just that invitation to be in relationship with the people who foundational research, like, how we should show up right in our practice, right that me being in the day to day isn’t enough and how we work together to produce the knowledge of the future. I think that was really powerful and really emotional for me too.

Gudrun Nyunt
Yeah, I love that. And I love that. You’re, you’re highlighting this research piece, right? And I think it’s a field we often struggle with connecting research and practice. But really, from all of your answers, I’ve heard this connection, right, that is happening from going and learning about kind of research based thing with learning outcomes and how to assess them, right, and then applying it or finding your voice as as a scholar practitioner, and actually engaging in some writing yourself, which I think is, is one of the really cool things, right, that we can do through professional association with Bas some of those silos that we find otherwise, where it’s like, oh, you a faculty, you’re a researcher, right? You’re a practitioner, we do separate things. But in those professional associations, we get a chance to kind of come together and find that community. The other thing I, you know, I heard some of the things that makes ACPA unique, right. And so you talked about really that research and scholarship, which I think is one of the things that our association really values right and hones in. And so a follow up question I have for all of you is, are there some things that in the things that you learned, or the things that really stood out to you about what makes ACPA unique? invited us to that association, right, that you choose to get involved in so many different ways?

Yasas Vithanage
I can jump in. I, I would say, part of the means like I’m hoping some of my staff that listen to the podcast, because I’ve been telling this to them for a while, you know, they there’s this perception of what professional development looks like, right? It feels like the big national conference, which it absolutely is. And it’s was one of the best times of the year. For me it’s like, it’s like, I don’t know, it’s like Lollapalooza, for Iread. Cabaret is like the biggest event of the all of higher education. So I look forward to it every year. But it doesn’t have to be all that right like, and that’s just only one part of the year, right? If you’re thinking about your development at one point of the year, that you’re really limiting yourself and your curiosity. And there’s so many accessible ways to to have this. But for me, the lessons I’ve learned is that you just need to find somewhere that you feel like you belong or create somewhere that that is, and I think that’s the beauty of part of ACPA is like, there’s always these entity groups that just keep learning and growing from there. But for me, you know, I found, I first I found home where, you know, curriculum spaces or assessment places, because that’s, you know, where I thought I needed to start my journey through, you know, you know, what, we think more formalized kind of spaces, which, you know, turned out to be more, you know, community more communal than I anticipated. But, you know, the mission for I believe, is sexual sexuality and gender identities. There’s the global dimensions, commission or coalition, those are places where I feel like I belong. And for me, the lessons you get from there is like, I care about these people, because it’s about me, it’s about who I am. And we often start from a place of, well, how this connects to me. But when you’re in those spaces with people, right, we talked about connection, those people are interested in a million other things, right. So as you’re in this small community, that community tells you, hey, this is we’re important together and for the community, and the people we care about, here’s the topic, here’s the thing that we can learn here, go here. And there’s also a lot of safety and stability of like, Hey, I’m, I found my people, and there’s someone in the room at a, at an event or a session or a webinar that, you know, I feel is a little risky, or maybe even like, you know, pushing my boundaries, but I see a familiar face or like someone that might be connected or like, just hearing, you know, you know, I’m the president of ACPA, Michigan, from Michigan, except someone I can talk to, I’m sure we’ve all been on the chats on the Webinars, like, ah, you know, go balls or whatever, you know, from the school or state that we’re in, find communities that we connect with each other. So for me, it’s not about the formalized like, Yes, I’m getting my doctorate, I believe in an education. And I believe in, you know, the formalized learning, and I think there’s a misconception of it has to be formalized and has to be a certain kind of way, right, and we’re moving away from that. And we see how you can use that informal connection to be something great and beautiful, like Galileo just talked about being part of that book, book chapter. So yeah, my biggest lesson and I will repeat again, it doesn’t have to be one way it can just risk and take it all year round. and find your community so that you can find what matters to you.

Amanda Knerr
And really appreciate that piece about community. Because for me, ACPA has always been about getting involved and being able to work together. And it doesn’t, you don’t have to be a senior level professional in order to hop in and contribute, I was able to get involved as a brand new professional. And in the process of getting involved, I was able to learn and gain knowledge and gain experiences, from the senior level administrators that were coming along, teaching me pulling me along and saying you can do this, let’s try this, let me introduce you to this person, let me introduce you to this opportunity. And that has been the epitome of ACPA for me, it’s really been about there isn’t hierarchy, it isn’t about, you have to have all this expertise in order to contribute, it’s really about looking around you grabbing another professional and saying, let me help you in this particular space, we’re going to show you this, we’re gonna give experience here so that you can learn and grow and develop. And then I can take those skills back to my campus and apply them. And it’s not just skills around advising or counseling or crisis management, it’s skills like leading a virtual team, or time management or looking broadly across the national landscape and how that impacts the work I do on my campus. And I really appreciated those connections, that community and that ability to contribute at all different levels of my career and my journey, and meaningful ways.

Yasas Vithanage
And I ended up connecting to this is that most of the learning that happens in those like formalized spaces, is limited versus like those connections and the places and learning happens outside that space. That’s like super informal. I love that. And I’m just thinking, you just made me like flashback to like a whole year, five years of like, oh, yeah, I learned so much more outside this space than I did. Because I connected with someone after the fact. So thank you. Good memories,

Kelvin Rutledge
Retweet, reads, tweet, retweet all the things right? Cuz even even with this question, even the conversation, right, all the things that stand out to me here, so relational, right? So I continue to think about the ways that ACPA definitly, because it becomes a space where I am able just to think and name that thinking as part of the process of growth, right? Just being able to say like that person and put down a word. I don’t even know how to save that word. But I guess I need to go back and research it right. Like in being able just to invite that conversation, right? I’m just thinking about personally 2018, your boy was not skilled at the term decolonization, right, like, so let’s just like, what’s the article? What’s the website? What’s the podcast, right? To help me just kind of understand and be in relationship with the terms the name, the knowledge that’s come into this space? even think about switching to decolonization? I thought about the strategic imperative, right? And what does it mean to really look like if we practice a pedagogy of love? What does it mean to call in with love when you make the mistakes, or when you create the ouch points, because I think if we are honest with ourselves part of an association experiences that sometimes you will make mistakes, and being able to own those and be in relationships, and Colin with an intention of not only education, but I’m calling in because I see you, and I appreciate you. And I appreciate that framework of being able to say like we we are educators who make mistakes. And that just because I have a PhD after my name doesn’t mean I’m always going to get it right. And so I’m so grateful for that. And personally, I also use a CPA to affirm that I’m not crazy, like, like, there’s just a lot going on on these campuses. A lot of people are doing a lot, right. And so it just goes to the space of like, are y’all seeing what I’m seeing? Like, is this a microcosm is this like, reaffirmed? So just a place of like, I can breathe? I can laugh with, like grace and humility and say, like, Okay, you got it, like, just just bring it back? release, and you’ll get to it?

Keith Edwards
Um, Chuck? Yeah, I want to jump in here because I think Amanda spoke to her directly. But all of you have sort of touched on this, but there’s this thing about not waiting until you’re ready. Not waiting until you’re an assessment expert to join the Directorate on assessment but journey when you’re not an assessment expert. And then that’s how you become an assessment expert, which Amanda is I’m trying to think what’s the word and boldly is sort of in my head because of ACA, boldly transforming education, but you’ve all spoken to this boldness or this active engagement or not waiting or just throw your name out there. You know, what can happen? You can lose an election like okay, that’s fine. Try something else. I don’t know if anybody else wants to speak to that, but just kind of jumping in. I mean, I started the commission for social justice educators as a grad assistant at the University of Maryland because I was on fire about it. And I met so many cool people through that process. And so many things have been sort of being in over your head is a great way to learn how to swim. It’s probably not true. But it’s I like the metaphor.

Yasas Vithanage
It definitely helps to have like folks who will help you float a little bit, right, like, and I have another question for us in a minute. But, you know, trying things things, and failing is incredible. And sometimes you try something, it works. And you’re the only reason it works, you leave an institution, you leave a project, and it fails, because you were the one who bring that energy. And so that’s a good thing to think about as well, I think I started a anti hate bias organization in, in grad school. And it was like, the big thing, you know, like, talk to my VPS, as she was on board, she was supporting me. You know, a couple years later, after I left that organization, kind of, I would say, It came to a halt, right, it came to a halt. And I was like, what, what was it because you could be that X factor, but you need to realize, like, you might be part of what’s holding it together and preventing other people from succeeding. So it’s part of that learning and growing, too. So you’re, you’re also sometimes part of the problem. And we have humility and curiosity about like, maybe I need to reflect on myself as well.

Gudrun Nyunt
Yeah, I love the piece that I hear from all of you around, right? It’s about learning. And it’s about making mistakes. And ACPA is a great space to kind of do that, right. And to, we’ve all had those moments where we’ve been like, yeah, I tried this, or I said this, and this wasn’t the best thing to do or say, right, and it gives you that space to, to then own that mistake and say, yeah, no, that wasn’t great. Right. And now I’ve learned from it, and I’m trying it a different way. And I think that’s one of the things I’ve always appreciated. And also right we have leaders in our association who will model that. I remember I weighed in for many people. And I think actually mentioned it at this convention, too. Right. He often talks about when he introduced the strategic imperative for racial justice, right. And at the time, it was just a strategic imperative for racial justice. And then there was that pushback from our indigenous members that said, Well, you know, we don’t feel seen and included in the strategic imperative and how that was a moment for him to say, you know, here I am an expert right on, on waste, and waste relations and racism. And I had that blind spot, right. And I remember for me, as a young professional that was so powerful to see someone that I’ve looked up to, and that I admire, say, Oh, I made this mistake, right. And the way that that he owned that mistake, and learned from it and pushed all of us to learn through it was really powerful to me. And I think that’s one of the pieces, right, that stands out that I’m also hearing from all of you is there’s the spaces to like, make mistakes, make mistakes, and its whole model that it’s okay to make those mistakes. And then what matters, right is what we learned from them.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, that’s a theme that really stood out for me, at this past ACPA experience is, I remember a time when criticality and criticizing everybody else seems to sort of be the coin of the realm. And it really feels like that’s shifted, and that humility, and grace and accountability and taking responsibility. I saw so many people doing that and modeling that and that being embraced and welcomed. And I think it’s wonderful to see it’s so needed in our in our campuses, in Student Affairs in Higher Education, and in our world.

Amanda Knerr
One of the things that Colin said that really resonated with me, you know, I think it’s so easy to get stuck in the day to day on our campuses, and putting out this fire putting out that fire. Oh, we you know, we don’t have enough resources, or why can’t we fill this vacancy? And I think one of the things I’ve appreciated about ACPA is it pulls me out of my own context, my own institutional context, and allows me to see where my campus is similar or different than others where there are experiences that are common that I can pull some best practices from to apply to make an impact on my campus. Sometimes it’s to laugh or cry or to to joke with people who understand it. But I think at the core, it’s when when we put our heads down and are on campus, it can be very isolating. We can feel like we’re the only one dealing with a situation we’re the only one who’s struggling with this particular issue. ACPA allows us to pull out of that isolation to really join in a community with others to trouble problem solve together around pressing issues, and to take back some of those conversations to really resolve issues on our campus to do better work on our campus, and to really create a sense of community that goes well beyond our particular campus context, but also thinking about our national partners. So that was huge for me. And I appreciated you saying, you’re talking about that, that, you know, sometimes it is just to laugh or joke or to realize, hey, it’s not just my experience, we’re all facing this together.

Yasas Vithanage
We all do this where like, after a session or like a conversation that you have with someone you text that person, you’ve been working on that project for like a year, like, I just found something like or like, I mean, a session that just like, just makes the most sense. Now, I can’t wait to tell you. Just a little bit of emojis here and there, like, I’m so excited.

Kelvin Rutledge
I always say ACPA is my lifelong learning lab. Just like, if you want to be a lifelong learner, trust me, you’re gonna learn something every time you’re there. So I appreciate it so much. Yeah.

Keith Edwards
Awesome. Well, we are getting close to running out of time. The podcast is called Student Affairs NOW. And so we always like to end with inviting each of our guests and booter. And maybe we’ll add you in here to to get a shot at this. What are you thinking about troubling or pondering now? It might be related, our conversation might be beyond that, and just what’s sort of super present with you? And then also, if folks want to connect with you, where am I the be able to do that? So Amanda, will have you lead us off here?

Amanda Knerr
Yeah. You know, I, I think I’m just it’s been a nice trip down memory lane today. And to really think about all those opportunities and experiences that I’ve been able to have. And I think for me, it’s remembering that it was taking a risk, and reaching out and saying, I’m just gonna try it, what’s the worst thing that can happen is maybe this isn’t the right opportunity for me, and I’ll try something else. But the opportunities and the connections and the lifelong colleagues have been so worth experience. And I you know, as I’m visiting upon, I’m like, oh, I need to go back and say thank you to some folks that helped me along the journey that may not even know the impact or the role that they had on my involvement, as well as just my experience on the way. So I’m gonna go back and do some thank yous, I think, at the end of today, and people can contact me at Gmail or amandaknerr@gmail.com, or LinkedIn, happy to connect with anyone. So thank you for the opportunity.

Keith Edwards
Kelvin, what’s with you now?

Kelvin Rutledge
Yeah, just first, thank you so much for the place and space just to be in conversation and dialogue today, I really appreciate it. This conversation brought up a couple of things for me. But it’s quick aside, one of my research areas is kind of like talent management and higher education. So funnily enough, we’re talking about all of like, a lot of people exiting the field early on in career and these places and spaces. And so coming off ACPA, like really feeling rejoined and renewed. And so one of the things that’s up for me right now, is, you know, we talked about the front end of the side, but I’m also thinking about what does it mean to honor people that are about to retire, and making sure that people get their flowers and their honor, and like that positive sent off, as we continue to think about our profession. And so I’m just talking about like, at ACPA, there was this phenomenal movement like moment where like, we had over 20 past presidents come on the stage and like, the energy in the room shifted when we all saw all of those presidents in that moment, right? And in that one exact moment, like what an honor it was just to see them and see them with each other, right? I think about our field that a lot of people are retiring in the next three to five years, and how do we just honor their legacy? And I just continue to sit with what does it mean again, to see people less full humans and honor the work town and things that they’ve offered us into this space. So just continue to sit with that and making sure I’m doing my best to honor the people who are choosing to leave soon. I think if people want to connect with me, I’m always happy to connect on LinkedIn. I’m also over on Twitter slash X. Just know if you’re connected me on Twitter X. I’m not always talking about higher ed things because I’m a full real human being right. So we tweet about the music’s we take about life, all the things right. So just invite people to kind of connect in that space. But again, just thank you for allowing me to be here today.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, thanks for being here. Yasas, what’s with you now?

Yasas Vithanage
And I’m in a place where after convention, my brain is going a million miles an hour. So to narrow it down, I guess would be I’m actually interested because it’s relevant to my work now is staff self care. Fact connecting with with Kelvin said a little bit about, you know, what does it look like for you know, people who are considering leaving with Field, why are they doing that? And then you know, is it is it something that we can do to break some of those ideal worker norms and focus on the humanity and the care of it. Of them, I should say, also super interested in that neurodivergent, CEO of our staff seemed to have a tendency to attract some neuro divergence into our field and how those folks navigate the higher ed, business capitalism, whatever that looks like, it’s a difficult place. And so interesting stories coming out of that. And also, my dissertation topic is on technology in ai, ai in higher education. So what was looking at that space, the talk and learn grow more want to leverage from the engineering background for sure, but you can find me in on on Twitter, I’m not even on Twitter, LinkedIn, that’s the word I was looking for. I’m outside of social media, for my own health, but LinkedIn, its own social media, and I get everything I need from there. And it’s fantastic. So look forward to connecting with you all soon.

Keith Edwards
Awesome. It’s nice to have a student affairs rocket scientist, sometimes our work is harder than rocket science. So glad to have you here and be a part of it.

Yasas Vithanage
Absolutely, there’s at least there’s a formula in rocket science. There’s Yeah, I’m light here.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, totally. Gudrun. What do you what’s with you now?

Gudrun Nyunt
Yeah, good question. I feel like these conversations, right, it this was just so inspiring and motivating to hear all of you talk about, like how you got engaged with professional development, and the variety of things you’ve done, and a lot of it was needed with me to write. I like Amanda, like I was a new professional in my first year. And I was like, I want to get involved. What do I do? Right? And Sue Saunders, one of those legends, right, who has since retired, said to me, Well, if you’re interested, right, pick a commission or an entity group and just put your name in there right for elections. Maybe you get it, maybe you don’t, you’ll find other ways to get involved. And so and that’s how I started in the commission for Housing and Residential Life. But, but I think with that, right, the the thing that I’ve been kind of troubling and wondering about is I know, for many of us professional development funds are being cut because of limited institutional budgets. And so the big thing I’ve been thinking about is how do we make these opportunities available to people when there is limited professional development funds? Right? When we know convention is a huge piece of building those relationships, right? We heard so much about how those relationships are important, important. And so when we don’t have that funding to maybe necessarily go to a convention, how can we make sure right, that we’re still providing these opportunities to other professionals, right. And building those connections, leveraging some of the technology, right that we have, or finding other ways to kind of connect? Because yeah, I think why, like, I’ve heard it from all of you like it’s has such an impact. I know it from my own life, my professional development can have such an impact on your career and your own learning. And I can’t imagine this field without it, right. But there’s also that reality of it all costs money. And so how do you make that happen? Wonderful. And then, I guess in terms of how to connect with me, I’m on LinkedIn, that’s probably the best way or email. I’m one of the I’m a faculty member who checks my email and especially on top of my emails, so feel free to email me my inbox post-convention is down to like 10 emails, which I’m super proud of.

Keith Edwards
Thanks. Good for you. Good for you. Well, thank you all for joining us. This has been a terrific conversation. It’s been wonderful to connect with all you and have this great conversation. And also thanks to our sponsor of today’s episode ACPA. ACPA college student educators international celebrating its 100th anniversary, boldly transforming higher education by creating and sharing influential scholarship, shaping Critically Reflective practice, and advocating for equitable and inclusive learning environments. ACPA aspires to be higher education and student affairs most inclusive and community driven Association. By leading our profession in centering, justice, centering social justice, racial justice and decolonization as defining concepts of our time in the foreseeable future. Visit my acpa.org or connect with them on Instagram, Facebook, and X to learn more about ACPA. As always, a huge shout out to our producer Natalie Ambrosey, who does all the behind the scenes work to make us look and sound good. And we love the support for these important conversations from you, our community. You can connect with us by subscribing to the podcast to YouTube to our weekly newsletter, where you get information about our new episode each week. I’m Keith Edwards with Gudrun Nyunt thanks to our fabulous guests today and everyone who’s watching and listening make it a great week all thanks everybody.

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