Carson Lonett:
something that I struggled with a lot as a new professional and like towards the end started to like really own a little bit more is like, don’t stop shining because someone is scared of your light. And like many people are so good at what they do and have really great talents and skills. And I think there’s some like natural intimidation around that and natural competition that happens in a village that’s so close and do a lot of passion. And so just, I don’t, like really own that cuz that’s important and it will make you, you in the world.

Keith Edwards:
Hello, and welcome to Student Affairs Now. I’m your host, Keith Edwards today, we’re talking about the new professional experience. Each of our guests was recommended as someone who was a great new professional, even though many of our guests, maybe none of them are still calling themselves new professional. They’ve evolved past that point. I’m excited to share their insights, wisdom, and lessons learned to help others who are or are about to be new professionals in higher ed, navigate that experience successfully for themselves and for others. I’m so excited to learn from each of you. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and online learning community for thousands of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs, rerelease new episodes every week on Wednesdays. Find details about this episode or browser archives at studentaffairsnow.com. This episode is sponsored by LeaderShape go to leadershape.org, to learn how they can work with you to create a more just caring and thriving world.

Keith Edwards:
This episode is also sponsored by Vector Solutions, formally EverFi, the trusted partner for more than 2000 colleges and universities. Vector solutions is the standard of care for student safety, wellbeing and inclusion. As I mentioned, I’m your host, Keith Edwards, my pronouns are he, him, his. I’m a speaker consultant and coach. And you can find out more about me at keithedwards.com. I’m broadcasting for Minneapolis, Minnesota at the intersections of the ancestral homelands of the Dakota and the Ojibwe peoples. Let’s get to the conversation. I’m so grateful to have you all joining us here today. Let’s start with introductions and miles. We’re going to have you kick us off,

Miles Marrow:
Thanks Keith. Hello everyone. My name is Miles Marrow. He, him pronouns and I currently serve as the assistant director for residence life at the University of Oregon. I’ve been here for about six years and kind of my Ascension to my, my current role has evolved through about three, three positions. I started off as a hall director then due to FLSA that quickly changed to community director. And over time I have been able to, you know, again, become an assistant director for residence life, namely with student leader development and training and our diversity equity and initiatives for our, our department. I think for me, some, some initial things that I’ll share about my experience, I still do consider myself a new professional, especially the way that the pandemic has impacted just my, my matriculation and intention into my role. And you know, initially I I’ll say remain curious, you know, remain curious and seek opportunities where they come up.

Keith Edwards:
That’s great. Thank you so much. I’m excited to, to hear more Quinn let’s learn a little bit more about you.

Quinn Foster:
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks Miles for kicking us off also. So yeah. Hi everyone. I’m really excited to be here with you. My name is Quinn Foster. I use the pronouns, they and them, and I currently serve as the director of student organizations in our center for student engagement here at Georgia Tech. Not Georgia Tech University Georgia Institute of technology. I started out in the world of student affairs in a somewhat non-traditional trajectory. While I, I knew that I wanted to go into student affairs as happens for so many of us. And that catalyst happened for me when I was an undergrad at a small women’s college. I also knew that I was really passionate and that my, my sort of home base was doing DEI work. So with that in mind, I didn’t go to the typical master’s program in higher ed administration or things like that.

Quinn Foster:
Instead, I went to Georgia state at where I got my master of arts in women’s gender and sexuality studies so that was a slightly different trajectory for me. But my journey at Georgia Tech started when I was at Georgia State getting my master’s in women’s gender and sexuality studies. I started off in the LGBTQIA resource center. I thought at the time that was exactly where I wanted to stay. I felt comfortable in my DEI realm where I, where I thought I needed to be. So I was a little concerned that when I graduated as happens to GA’s you graduate, you can’t, , can’t be a GA anymore needed a new gig, right? So a position for our administrative professional came open in the center for student engagement. And I was like, I guess that sounds okay. Like students are cool. I want to be, I want to be working with students directly. And what I have found over years, moving from administrative professional to our coordinator of student organizations now, as the director of student orgs is actually all the meaningful, powerful DEI work that I’m passionate about is happening in student organizations and student activism. So that’s how I got here. I’m really excited to be with y’all thanks for letting me join.

Keith Edwards:
Awesome. So glad you’re here Quinn, and I don’t know that we’ve ever had two Q’s on, so we go from Quinn to Quan very special, completely unintentional Kwan. Tell us a little bit more about you.

Quan Phan:
Yes. Hi, my name is Quan. My pronoun is he and him and his I am currently the LGBTQ program coordinator with the gender inequality center at the University of Oklahoma. And I started out in residence life. As you know, when I entered the field move on from the graduate student started new role as a curriculum coordinator at the residence life in University of Oklahoma. And then I transitioned to the program coordinator within the LGBTQ programs at our gender and equality center, right when the pandemic hit. So I remember my first day was the day that the university shut down. And so I get to work remotely.

Keith Edwards:
It’s not your fault is not your fault one. Nope,

Quan Phan:
Nope, Not my fault.

Quan Phan:
And so I get to start my job remotely for the first five months. So that was a, you know, a joy and luckily I have been involved with the center as an undergraduate student and work with the center with my practicum as a graduate student. So I’ve been a long time supporter for the program. So luckily the onboarding process is a little bit easier than someone who coming from, you know, outside of the institution. And I’m also currently a doctoral candidate in the program of a higher ed at the University of Oklahoma as well.

Keith Edwards:
Awesome. Awesome. Glad you’re here. Quan and Carson, tell us a little bit about you

Carson Lonett :
Congrats about that program. Quan that’s awesome. My name is Parson. She, her pronouns, I currently serve as special assistant to the vice president for student affairs, which is very similar role to like a chief of staff for our division. And I just finished my sixth year in the role or in the field. And I previously served in residence life similar to Quan like kind of the curriculum programming person. And then after that I did leadership just like leadership development for students. And it was more of like a consulting, like role for programs and people who are doing training. So I felt like it was really specialized compared to my curriculum role, which involved, like knowing a little bit of everything . But all of my experiences been at James Madison University. So I’ve been here since grad school went to grad school here and have gotten lots of experience getting to know people here. but my role now does like a little bit of everything event planning, programming, policy updates, delivering good and bad news supporting our VP and leadership teams. So excited to be here.

Keith Edwards:
Well, a theme that I just noticed as you’re doing introductions is longevity at the same institution, right? University of Oregon, Oklahoma, George tech, JMU. And I think that’s, that’s a Testament, you know, people recommended you, right? So these are people who’ve been great new professionals. And when you’re a great new professional, you navigate that complexity. Well, they want you to keep staying and you move into other roles and all of you have had multiple positions and multiple roles as you go through that. So I’m really glad you’re all here. Let’s dive in a bit deeper. You all kinda gave a very succinct, brief version of your experience to this point, but I’d love to hear from each of you three key lessons that you’ve learned maybe before being a new professional during that experience, or maybe looking back on it, if you do look back on it and we really want to offer this to the audience that might help folks who are new professionals and maybe struggling, or maybe folks who are about to so just love for, to hear some of your stories and some of your insights and Carson, we’re going to continue with you.

Keith Edwards:
No pressure. What are some, some three key lessons here that you might want to offer to folks that might be helpful to them?

Carson Lonett :
Yeah, I think, well, and it’s different for everyone. So I think that’s super important as we like potentially dish out some thoughts , figure out what’s going to work for you. But I think the first thing that I thought about was like, say yes as a coordinator in, in the ORL, my role, you know, could be a lot of things and residence life naturally collaborates with a lot of different areas. And so when the opportunities presented itself, I would just be like, yeah, sure. I’ll learn about that. Or I’ll be on the accountability boards for our student conduct. Why not? Like I don’t have that experience. But it naturally brought me together, like with a lot of different people in our division, which is about 300 people that I probably wouldn’t got to know else, like in another way. And so like that trust and credibility built up just like in those informal and voluntarily relationships.

Carson Lonett :
And so I thought, I think that’s so important and it kind of brings to like, the relationships are just so important in, in all what we do in, in everyday life. Right. And so I think the honoring and valuing people for work, they do, I’m like a big, thank you note person. And so like, you know, even for the big, and even just like the really little things showing people that you care is kind of like my second piece about relationships really goes a long way and you don’t realize how many people maybe don’t get that on their day to day in the work . And so I think that’s super important. And like with that say yes, in relationships, like anytime there was like a birthday lunch and they like invited our department, or anytime we had like a super competition in residence life, I just said yes, and went but those like natural built the foundation for like relationships that, you know, you end up using a lot and actually have helped me so much in my current role.

Carson Lonett :
People who, yeah, we like ate chicken noodle soup. But like she’s incredible at IT so she can help me out when I know nothing about that. and then my third thing would probably be something that I struggled with a lot as a new professional and like towards the end started to like really own a little bit more is like, don’t stop shining because someone is scared of your light. And like many people are so good at what they do and have really great talents and skills. And I think there’s some like natural intimidation around that and natural competition that happens in a village that’s so close and do a lot of passion. And so just, I don’t, like really own that cuz that’s important and it will make you, you in the world

Quinn Foster:
is there an example Carson of, of a time that, that happened for you where you’re like, I don’t want to shine too bright or I’m intimidated or a little shy about it.

Carson Lonett :
Oh gosh. I’m not good at that at all. So I think that’s why I look back like that happened quite a lot. I think I’m a natural overachiever, which I’ve started to own more about myself but I think people would be like, she’s everywhere and I’m like, oh, I shouldn’t be everywhere. But then I was like, I enjoy doing that so yeah. Yes and no. And maybe not great moments of coming over that until recently.

Keith Edwards:
Yeah. Yeah. I’m just noticing so much of what you’re sharing is less about the work than it is about the relationship and the connection and the context. And I think something that I got caught up in that didn’t serve me well as a new professional is being so focused on the work and being competent and proving myself mostly to myself. But I would outsource that to other people that I didn’t tend to the relationships and the connections. And I think that that was a big missed opportunity and didn’t, didn’t serve me as well as, as what I’m hearing you describe. Quinn, what would you like to add? What are, what are some key lessons that, that you’re thinking about as you look back?

Quinn Foster:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love to hold it down as the second person just this is great. It’s a good place for me to be. So I think that mine kind of like Carsons are very relational based and like you were picking up on Keith the first one that comes to mind and I, I actually, it makes me laugh a lot cause I work in the realm of like student activities, student organizations. Right. and when I am thinking about being in a new place not only can I apply that to students who are coming to campus for the first time, nervous, it’s such a big transitory moment for them. But it, you know, the same things that I would say to my students, I would share with new professionals get connected right. Like this is a new place.

Quinn Foster:
When you left high school and, and went to undergrad, you didn’t know who to eat lunch with as a new professional coming to campus, you don’t know who to eat lunch with and it’s nerve wracking. And who are your people? Where do you belong? Generally speaking, getting involved and getting connected to people to your colleagues, to your peers, to folks who you don’t think are your direct colleagues who might surprise you, right. Is it’s just such a pivotal and foundational part of the experience for me. And I think generally it will increase or accelerate your level of comfort or of connectedness with the work that you’re doing and also with the people that you’re doing the work with. The second thing that I was thinking about is there’s this really great quote for Mr. Rogers, he I’m going to butcher butcher the quote.

Quinn Foster:
So I apologize, but he essentially is talking about when he was a young boy and he would see scary things in the news, right. He turned to his mom and his mom would say look for the helpers, right? There are always people who are, who are helping. And I think as a new professional, it can be really intimidating. Again, there are so many things happening in the world outside of our institutions that we’re bringing in that we may or may or may not be able to give space to when we’re in our professional roles. There may be things on campus that are really deeply affecting you. And so for me, I think one of the big lessons I learned was to look for the helpers. I’ll give an example of this. So in 2017, that was the year that I had transitioned out of being the graduate assistant and the LGBTQIA research center where I’d worked really closely with our I trans students.

Quinn Foster:
And I had started working in the center for student engagement, again, as that admin professional. That was the year that we had a police shooting that ended in the death of one of our students who was a queer intersex activist. The president of pride Alliance, the name of scout. And at the time I was just totally devastated. I was the prince of new professionalism and I was like, how, how do I, how do I be a trans and queer person on this campus? In the light of Palo brutality and also show up as, as a person who’s supposed to be supporting my students. And the lesson that I learned as a new professional was really looking for the helpers. They came out of the woodwork. They were folks who I never thought were going to be the helpers. Maybe people who I thought might even be antagonistic, right. Or who might not share the same feelings or opinions or create space for me. So looking for the helpers as a new professional was a good lesson learned. Yeah. And then the third thing that I was going to mention was that you shouldn’t be afraid to stay as this was something, I didn’t know, cuz I didn’t look at

Keith Edwards:
All the head nods. You just got on that one. Well

Carson Lonett :
Yeah. Apparently biased on that one. Just a little

Quinn Foster:
Bit. Yeah. yeah. I would love, I would love to hear what y’all have to say, but it was something that I didn’t know, cuz I didn’t come from a higher ed master’s program that there’s this like time, this timeline, we don’t write down, but we all know it that you’re going to go be a coordinator for two maximum three years and then you need to move institutions maybe across the country to go be an assistant director for another two to five years. Right. There’s this sort of rat race that we’ve created in higher education. But I think what I’ve learned being at tech for seven years this will be my seventh year it’s, don’t be afraid to stay. If, if there’s anything worth doing in higher education, it’s going to take you a few years to get it done. And mostly that’s because you’re building the institutional knowledge, but also back to the theme of relationships, it’s getting people on side, getting people in your corner, building those bridges to make the important work happen. So yeah, I’d love to hear like what were the head nods that we saw from folks about like, not like about staying, don’t be afraid to stay.

Keith Edwards:
They have all stayed

Carson Lonett :
I can hop in. I think it’s so much of that. Like one there’s some comfortability, right? Like, you know, some of the people and the players in the game and that’s just like kind of nice, but I think there’s some really nice pieces of like building on and seeing the cycles, you know, like we talk about these four to five year cycles in higher ed and it’s kind of nice to see them and then see things change and then see things change with the generations of students at like kind of in the same environment and scope . And so at least for me, that’s like some of the driving force.

Quan Phan:
I can also chime in as well. Like just so one of my thing to talk about to new professional is that like you’re not going to make like the first two year of your job, you’re there to learn. Right. I, when I started in the pandemic I was jokingly with my supervisor, which is like, I need two years of grades the first year, because it’s a pandemic and then the second year is because, you know, post pandemic, post pandemic, whatever that means. But like, you know, like be, we are really our learner in the first two years learn about institutional culture department. So like you know, I think a lot of time when having conversation with graduate students specifically, they’re like, I’m going to change the entire field. I’m going to change the entire institution. And sometimes they get really discouraged in the first two years and I was like, well, I didn’t change anything.

Quan Phan:
And I was like, well, I don’t know if you’re, you know, like you can enact change at like, you know, at your level also don’t afraid to enact change. But also in the first two years, a lot of us spend time really learning about what are our student needs, what are the culture of our, you know, institution departments. And so, you know, with staying with one role for multiple years is that like Carson said, you see the cycle of student, but also you get to get to enact the change that you wanted. Right. long term change as well. So I really identify with that.

Keith Edwards:
I think that’s really important cuz I think most people are undergrads for four, maybe five years. Then you’re a grad student for maybe two or three years. And then you’re, if you’re in this new professional for three years, it can often feel like the change has to happen in that timeframe. And if it doesn’t happen in that timeframe, then I have failed . But I watched Dean strategically navigate transgender issues, preferred name, pronouns benefits on a 10 year arc with the city, with the state, other partners, other colleges, all of this stuff. And watching him have this sort of this real push over a long period of time and then watching other people like, well, if it doesn’t happen by May, when I leave for another job, then it’s complete failure and you failed and all of this. And so just, I think having that broader scope of time, particularly around change is I think a really valuable insight miles. What were you going to add?

Miles Marrow:
Yeah, I, I was going to share some of the same anecdotes that others have shared. You know, I’ve been at University of Oregon again for six years and I’ll be honest. There were times where, you know, I was thinking I have to leave. I have to get back to Virginia, shout out, you know, and I think about over the years, what I have thought about is, you know, what is a healthy level of discomfort for me? Cause I think there is a point where, you know, sometimes you do have to decide if staying at an institution is best for you and what is a healthy level of discomfort, you know? Are some of the challenges and the gaps and discrepancies and dissonance that I’m experiencing. Is it resolvable, you know, is it reconcilable? What can I continue to learn, you know, from, from, from the experiences that I, that I’m having and you know, for me in staying at University of Oregon the, the, just the, that I’ve been able to develop to help me reconcile some of the dissonance that I was having has been you know, invaluable for my, my, my, my growth.

Miles Marrow:
You know, so, you know, I’ll share again, what is the, the, the level of discomfort you’re willing to have, you know, at an institution. And is that beneficial for your, your growth as a professional?

Keith Edwards:
Yeah.

Carson Lonett :
I think that’s incredibly insightful Miles and something I’m going to keep thinking about, but just, I think that level of discomfort, especially when you come from any kind of marginalized background is like really good to protect yourself in some ways. And sometimes that has to be from an institution,

Keith Edwards:
Right? And I think we have to not be fooled like that. The next place we go won’t have any discomfort. Right? right. The, these, these, all these institutions are imperfect. Every organization has a gap between their espoused values and their enacted values. And how do we navigate that? But then also knowing, you know, what, what can I tolerate? What’s my healthy level of discomfort for even growth and then no, this is a deal breaker. This, this is not good for me. This is not going to contribute to my growth and development. This is doing harm. And to know that difference rather than just feel the discomfort and feel like I should move automatically. That’s really insightful.

Miles Marrow:
I think that has been a conversation for many of us in student affairs throughout the pandemic. You know, one of the things that I thought about often, and I’ll talk a little bit about this more is you know, ethics in journaling and how that became a, not only a coping mechanism throughout the pandemic, but a, you know, a, a way for me to continue to grow. One of the things that I thought about often was if I leave University of Oregon, am I going into another department? That’s having the same challenges, you know, that, that we are. And you know, again, if I’m leaving front of discomfort, am I, is the comfort that I’m experiencing being at another institution going to be short lived as we begin to reconcile, right, through the pandemic experience, you know some, some of the things that I thought about throughout the last two or so years,

Keith Edwards:
Well, and I think you’re talking about maybe the same challenges at different institutions. I think then sometimes it’s not the institution it’s us. I was just talking with a very senior student affairs leader who said, you know, I’m having all these problems at my current institution is very overwhelming. I’m working nights, I’m working weekends. It’s not sustainable. It’s blah blah. And, and I said, I, I hear that. And at the last job, it was the same thing. The only thing they have in common is you, it might be you . And he was like, I know , I know it’s not the organization. It’s just, this is how I do that. So I think sometimes what are we carrying with us? What patterns or habits, even ones that don’t serve us very well, we can carry them from institution to institution and noticing some of that shift. I know Quan, we, I skipped over you. I got so excited to hearing from Quinn. So go ahead. What are, what are three lessons for you that you want to share with, with new professionals?

Quan Phan:
Yeah. well like Miles and Quinn shared so many good things. So I’m trying to come up with a few more new things, but one of the first things that I want to talk about is managing up. I think that, like, you know people don’t usually think of how many people’s supervisor have to manage people. So like sometimes, you know, sometimes the ratio can be like one to five or one to seven. I’ve seen pretty common. I’ve seen department one

Keith Edwards:
To 20,

Quan Phan:
Yeah. One to 20. And so understanding, you know, your supervisor communication style, working style strength, and really be able to like adapt and work with them. So it not only set them up for success, but also allow them to supervise you in the way that best fit your needs. Right. I think, like you said earlier, Keith, like a lot of times student, oh, or new professional coming from, you know, as a student leader background as a student leaders in even their graduate degree. Right. but now they get to be in a professional role and certainly sometimes the expectation change a little bit a metaphor that, you know, sometimes people use is that sometimes as professional where like, you know, like the duck, the like, you know, pretty calm up in the water, but then the feet would just like keep moving.

Quan Phan:
And sometimes students don’t get to see that. And sometimes now entering the field is the first time that they get to see like, oh, you worked that much. Or like that show, or like that event that you put on, like, you don’t just show up whenever the events set is going to start. Right. and now is there time to kind of get introduced to that? So also managing their expectation of like, well, now I, you can’t have the same expectation as a student leaders and wait for, you know, professional staff to check in on you. And, you know, now you have to take on initiatives and adapt really build up that professional identity for yourself is like really important. And my second nugget would be somewhere in long theory and practice. I think a lot of time my colleague right after they graduate their degree, and then they go to their new, new professional, and then they’re like, oh, I don’t need to use any of the theory anymore.

Quan Phan:
I just going to, you know do all these things, very administrative stuff, and I get why, right. Like we have to deal with day to day things. But I think it’s a healthy level of like, you know, we need to kind of understand where new theory comes in and where is it helpful? I am also very aware that I’m saying this as a also doc student , so I love theory and I love but you know, I think that practice that has been informed by theory is so beneficial for student. It’s also sad as a scholars when you produce scholarship and the average you know, reader for a scholarship is like, what people per article or something like that, or never. So, you know, like, I, I think that there’s a bridge that we need to build there as both scholar side and also practitioner side.

Quan Phan:
Right. we have to continuously inform ourselves on what the current trends and be the continuous learner. I think a lot of the people on the call here have talked about, you know, being the learner within the own space, learning the culture of your department learning the culture within your institution and where you are. And but we also have to be to learn within the field. What is the best practices right now? What are some conversation surrounding, especially in under research field, right. So and trans support, and trans student student of color student with multiple marginalized identity. We have to be on top of those conversation in order to kind of best supporting our students and last and is probably you know, be active in your own professional development.

Quan Phan:
I think you know, a lot of time I see my colleagues or a student entering in the field have talked about, well, you know, like this institution, they won’t pay for me to go to, you know, expensive convention or conferences, but also you know, they didn’t really count the one that the institution they’re putting on for them. Right. So of the workshop that your HR department of the lunch and learn of the things. So take advantage of small things and also kind of, you know, doing some backward designing from where you want to be professionally, maybe if, you know, I’ve seen student or people entering the field and just say like, I want to be Dean of student one day. Great. How do I, what skill do they need? How do I use this opportunity professionally to kind of build you know, the skill that I need in order to achieve dream job one day, right? and sometimes those dream job changes and things like that more, more often than not. But yeah. So how, how do we become proactive in our own professional development, given the resources that we’re given? Right. so we don’t have to just wait for like, oh, I’m just going to only view as, you know, big convention as the professional development space,

Keith Edwards:
Right. I something that you didn’t say, but really was a thread through all of that was, I really heard you saying, you know, advocate for yourself. , don’t wait and see if your supervisor’s going to supervise you in a way that you need, but say, this is how I want to be supervised. This is what I need. Don’t wait and see how much money you have for your professional development. But what are all the other opportunities I can take advantage of that are here that are going on in other ways, things like this, which are free to engage in and doing, but really that. And I think that self advocacy is, is a good idea and it needs to be artfully done. So you don’t look selfish and self focused, but how do you advocate for yourself? Because you want to learn, you want to grow, you want to contribute, and this is what I need, and this is how you can help me. And that managing up you all were, were suggested because we were having a conversation about an episode on leading from the middle and you all were suggested, which is why we’re having this conversation. But that ability to lead the people above you, as well as the people below you, and then the people who are your peers at all these different levels is a really critical skill.

Quinn Foster:
Yeah. I’d love to like suggest a pro tip Keith for what you were saying just now of like advocacy has to be artfully done. So you don’t necessarily look selfish or self-serving one phenomenal way to, you know, really drive that pro dev train and make it seem as if you’re not just a conductor is to bring people with you, like pack other people on that train. I want to go to this training, amazing how many other colleagues would also be interested in that conversation. Right. We want to have the speaker come to campus, phenomenal. How many butts can I get in seats? right. Yeah. For that session can really be a great way to, to get the thing that you’re looking for. Also, you get the added bonus of organizing it, right. Without looking as if it’s just for you, it’s not just right. And

Keith Edwards:
Then it’s about the issue or it’s about the learning or it’s about the, the focus rather than about, I want this right. And the benefits to so many people, including ultimately the students, a really great example of doing that Miles you chimed in with a few thoughts along the way, but want to come back to you, what are some of the, the three key lessons that you’d like to share with others?

Miles Marrow:
Yeah. you know, Quan and I, where our minds are existing in the same multiverse. There’s so many of the, the points that Quan hit on that where, where things for me, and, you know, I’ll go back to me go back to something that Quan has shared is, you know continue to engage in a practice, you know, being a scholar practitioner. I think this is very important for those who are coming out of graduate school, you know, once you graduate, do not throw all those graduate materials away, you know, use that in your, your, your first professional roles as a way to continue to engage or, or even reengage, you know, learning. One of the things that I found instrumental when I first became a hall guard at the University of Oregon, was to take that grad material and use it as if my first professional role was an assistantship , you know, what ways can I go back?

Miles Marrow:
And I look at the, the topics and the course materials that we’ve covered and apply that to you know, being a hall director. Can I apply that to advising and supporting students? Can I apply that to, you know, conduct adjudication? I think the other thing that was important is that for me, when I was in graduate school, my assistantship was in a multicultural student affairs. So being a hall director was a brand new experience for me. So really taking that, that course material that I had and re-engaging it, and applying it to, you know, being a hall director, I found you know, instrumental in my, my learning and development. you know, that first year I think going along with that is finding mentors, both internal to the institution, as well as external to the institution. And I think you can even break that down into categories.

Miles Marrow:
For example, for me, one of the things that I’ve always tried to maintain is having a mentor who is in academia. You know, some of my graduate professors, I, I still maintain as mentors having a mentor that is in administration cuz an administrative background seeking a mentor that is at the institution or has been at the institution for a long time and something else that this is a new one for me that I started was seeking mentor relationships with people who had opposite and or dominant identities that were opposite of the identities that I possess. And one of the reasons that I found that beneficial is that it helped me to understand perspectives that I might be meeting or coming up against, you know, in my own professional work. But mentorship is a beautiful thing.

Miles Marrow:
And you know, especially again for graduate students, I encourage you all to seek mentorship out, you know, again, both internal and external to, you know, your university and, or your functional area, you know, your, your field of choice. So many of you all had hit on this before, but professional development is also important. I think oftentimes we think of professional development as being the conference experience you know, predominantly your, your NASPA or your ACPA, maybe your, and as Quan had shared, think about the professional development experience that can come internally, you know, at your institution whether this is things that your human resources is putting on, or maybe it might be a program that your Dean of students is doing or your advising office. Also think about how experiences that you might not initially think are applicable to your work might be transferable to a future career field.

Miles Marrow:
Maybe it is that you are a advisor and you are thinking about, you know, translate transitioning to support services. You know, if there is a training on, you know, assist or a suicide prevention that might be an applicable training, let’s say you are a hall director and you want to go specifically into to let’s say conduct respondent services training on that might be applicable. Supporting survivors might be in a applicable training trainings around crucial conversations or crucial dialogue. You know, if your institution provides that might be beneficial training. So, you know, again, not only think of professional development as being external or conference oriented, but you know, those experiences that you might get from a, my track or, you know, some type of institutional software that does its internal professional development and, or you know, seeing if you might be, have be able to have an auxiliary appointment or a shadowing experience at another office, you know, on campus can be can, can be, be beneficial in my experience.

Miles Marrow:
I think the, the, the, the last thing is regularly engaging ethics. This is both your area, postal ethics, as well as institutional ethics engage your ethics as if it was a daily journal . So I think oftentimes in our work, especially for us with underrepresented identities, we, we experience a number of different challenges, gaps, and discrepancies, or points of dissonance. If we do not have a village, or if we don’t have mentors, oftentimes we’re holding onto the, you know, those experiences, they don’t, we don’t necessarily have an outlet. And there’s a need for us to process what we’re, what we’re experiencing. And one of the ways that I found doing that is thinking about what is of personal value to me, you know, ethically and things that I want to espouse and enact in my work, and what are the, the ethics of the institution or their espouse values and missions, you know, mission statements of the institution, where they align, where they differ and how I might resolve them. A lot of that has been through mentorship, you know, different perspectives again. But again, you know, en engaging your ethics daily both your personal ethics and your professional ethics and, you know, treating it like a journal experience, that was something that you’re writing and dialoging on and reflecting on regularly have just, you know, again, just been beneficial, you know experiences and, and praxies that, that I’ve used over the last couple of years.

Keith Edwards:
That’s a, that’s a great reminder, a powerful reminder. I also love what you’re saying about mentoring. I’m recently learned about organizations that assign each new employee, a peer mentor, and a hierarchical mentor, a mentor that is way ahead in the organization. And way ahead in the career can kind of give you the broad scope and sort of the journey, but then also someone who’s basically at your level, but has been here a year or two can be like, this is how this works. and you, you, you you know, those are two different ways of thinking about mentorship. I think you offered us for, and, and I also love that you’re coming back to the learning because how you apply that learning when you were a grad student in a, an assistantship, you can apply the same learning and it’ll mean something completely different to you, right?

Keith Edwards:
If you’re in a different institution, a different context, different functional area. And, and if you, even, if all of that is the same, you’re different, right? You see the world differently than you did, then you think about it differently and you’re engaging with different people. Well, we, we are running outta time. I just want to see we, we had each of you share. I want to see if each of you any quick thoughts as you listen to your colleagues here share anything else you want to add that we haven’t gotten a chance to mention yet Quan anything you want to add?

Quan Phan:
I think one quick thing I want to add is don’t be afraid to enact change don’t at your level, I think that’s something that you said frequently, Keith, is that, you know, you have people coming in, I was like, well, I can’t wait until I’m an AD or director to make changes. You can make changes at your own level. And you can influence other, you know, don’t feel pressured to do, you know, change the entire field, but also knowing that you have the ability and power to do so.

Keith Edwards:
Yeah, I I’ll, I’ll share a little bit more since you mentioned that, but I talked to hall directors and they all say, you know, when I’m a VP, it’ll be so great. I can do all these things when I’m a VP, when I’m a VP, when I’m a VP, I can finally make a difference. And then you sit with VPs and they all go, remember when we’re hall directors and what we did really mattered. And all we do now is go to meetings and do the budget. And, but that’s when we really made a difference. So I think we all kind of undersell the power of the role and the influence and the impact that we have. So, Carson, what do you want to add here that maybe we hadn’t mentioned yet?

Carson Lonett :
I think, okay. I might have two just, which is cheating. One of the things with the professional development is like finding a really good organization system. So like I went through like the cubies like five choices curriculum, and that like changed my life in terms of like what I could prioritize and get done each day, which I think just helps you yeah. Manage everything that comes your way. So you have all the time to change the world and change within your, like the, your scope. And I think the last piece that I, I asked someone before I came on the podcast is like to provide me something of why I might even be on this podcast. And one of the things that they shared was to be honest and like transparent, not only like with yourself and the identities that you bring into a space, but also with colleagues and like the kind and, and like really good way.

Carson Lonett :
And so I didn’t really realize until they said, wow, that a lot of people come to me for feedback about like, yeah, how they maybe talked in a meeting or presented. And I think people are scared to give people honest feedback, but it helps your colleagues grow and then you build trust with them. And I think that’s something that I encourage people to do, like find that champion and somebody that will give you the honest feedback and also find somebody that you can trust to give back to. So I think that’s a really important kind of peer relationship that can go a long way.

Keith Edwards:
, you’re reminding me of our gen Z conversation where I learned that gen Xers like me, we like to be told what the job is, and then we like to go do it and be left alone. Right. And gen Z really wants more feedback, more input because they want to learn and grow and do better. So they don’t mess it up on a grand scale. Right. Don’t make the big mistakes. Right. And so really I want to challenge other folks who are directors or in other roles that a younger generation really does want more feedback about what they’re doing well about what they could do better. They really want more of that. And I think that’s been really helpful for me in thinking about Nat Ambrosey our production assistant, who always wants more feedback. I’m like, it’s going great. She’s like, no, I really want more feedback about how it could be better. So that’s been that’s been helpful Miles. What do you want to add that maybe hasn’t been quite named yet? What would you want to add to this?

Miles Marrow:
Yeah. you know, Carson and Quinn had a hint on this, about, you know, developing relationships. So what I would say to anyone, especially those that might be an entry level roles or transitioning into what we might call a mid-level role is to be a rainbow in someone’s cloud. You know, so much of us have to, to get to where we are now, we’ve leaned on other other folks. And we’ve learned from other folks if you’re able to reciprocate that, you know, be a rainbow in someone else’s cloud. I think two is for those of us who have underrepresented identities wrestle with stereotype threat and imposter syndrome you know, be in your experience and know your, your light, have your light, see your light shine, you know, in, in your roles. I think the, the last thing I’ll share as again, for those who are of us who are in entry level roles or mid-level roles, is that accountability is a act of love and reciprocity. I’ll share those nuggets.

Carson Lonett :
Love That.

Keith Edwards:
That’s great. That’s great. Quinn. Any thoughts you have here before we move to our last question?

Carson Lonett :
Yeah, I think

Quinn Foster:
So I’ve started a doctoral program. I’ve been in it like two weeks. So it was very new. You may not be surprised to learn that it’s still not in higher ed administration. It’s, I don’t know what it is. I’m going to stay in the field and study

Keith Edwards:
Well, you’re fighting value in what you’re learning, right?

Quinn Foster:
Yes, yes, absolutely. And so the, the thing that I’m thinking about, and again, I’m two weeks in but there’s this concept that we’ve been talking about in class about the eye shaped professionals imagine like a capital I, right. Just a vertical line that in the workplace, a lot of us have an incredible depth of knowledge in our areas, right? Maybe it’s student development theory, maybe it’s feminist theory, maybe it’s accounting, whatever it is. Right. and the challenge is if you take a bunch of eyes, right. A bunch of just vertical lines, you put us in a circle, we’re not going to, we’re not going to touch. We’re not going to get a lot of connection or engagement amongst these vertical lines. Right. But instead this was the point that I’m thinking about. I think I wish I had had in my pocket as a, as a new professional is what if we tried to focus on a T-shaped professional, right.

Quinn Foster:
We’re thinking about ourselves, not just as we’ve got this incredible depth of knowledge, like you learned so many things in undergrad and grad school, you are ready to do the job you are equipped. But the thing that’s going to bring you joy in your job or the thing that’s going to make you want to stick around or build those connections is that horizontal access it’s, can you have difficult conversations and give people awesome feedback? Can you celebrate yourself and shine bright, right. Or fight imposter syndrome in yourself and connecting with one another so I think for me really focusing, not just on the awesome background that you’ve got the depth of knowledge, but connecting with other folks and trusting yourself that those connections are going to be the thing that keeps you here.

Keith Edwards:
Awesome. Awesome. Well, we were just about out of time the podcast is called Student Affairs Now. We always like to end on this question. What are each of you thinking troubling or pondering now might be something related to this conversation, or just something that you’re really thinking about. And if you want to share where folks can connect with you feel free to go ahead and do that. So Quinn, what are you troubling now?

Quinn Foster:
I think to touch a little bit on what Miles was saying, and, and some of the themes that have come up in our conversation there’s this really lovely quote by Audrey Lord, who is a, a black feminist scholar black feminist warrior poet mother was often how she described herself. And this quote is your silence will not protect you. So that’s something I’m thinking a lot about these days is when am I showing up or not showing up? When am I trying to use my silence as a shield when maybe it’s not protecting me as much as I thought? Yeah. So definitely check out some Audrey Lord poetry or her anthology, sister outsider is a great place to start.

Keith Edwards:
Thank you, Quinn. Thank you. Miles. What are you pondering now? You know, throughout the, the podcast, I kept coming back

Miles Marrow:
To another Maya Angelou quote for me not a direct translation, but she says I am human. Therefore, nothing human can be alien to me. I was thinking about that again, you know, as, as many of the cohot has shared, you know, we’ve been at our institutions for a number of years and a number of different roles. Anything is possible. Anything is possible and, you know, continue to be agent in your experiences.

Keith Edwards:
great. Carson, what would you, what’s troubling you now? What are you pondering?

Carson Lonett :
Oh, goodness. I think I’m just sitting here, like with you all wonderful people thinking like how much there is to learn from y’all so I’m like, I’ll definitely be reaching out. It’s been great to get to this first experience with you. So I’m thinking about that and just like how important you can learn from so many stories and, and that reciprocates I’m thinking about what you said, but in like sharing yourself in certain spaces as is important, cuz this it’s hard to separate work in life. And, and I think it’s really important that we integrate in a positive, balanced way. And there’s like a lot of value to that. So I appreciate you all sharing your sense to me.

Keith Edwards:
Yeah. And Quan, what are you pondering or troubling now?

Quan Phan:
Yeah. so, you know, with, especially with recent events that happening across the nations we are dealing with a lot of you know tragedy and as student affairs professional, I think that we are called to respond right. Like take a very reactive role in, you know, making sure that our students are doing okay. And sometimes we engage with a lot of like trauma. And I wonder, especially with, you know, with my role as LGBTQ programs, right. How, what would higher education look like? What does student affairs look like if we center joy in, you know, futurity and safety and love

Keith Edwards:
Liberation

Quan Phan:
And liberation, how, what, what does that look like? So I’m pondering that in both my you know, as a practitioner and also in my scholarship as well. So I’m excited to continue to explore that brother.

Keith Edwards:
Awesome. Well, thanks to each of you so much for being here and for joining us, this has been terrific. I think so many folks will find this really helpful as they’re in new professionals are about to be, or even folks who are beyond that experience. As you mentioned, Carson, this is really valuable. So thanks to each of you and thanks to our sponsors of today’s episode LeaderShape and Vector Solutions, LeaderShape partners with colleges and universities to create transformational experiences, both virtual and in person for students and professionals with a focus on creating a more, just caring and thriving world. LeaderShape offers experiences on courageous dialogue, integrity, equity, resilience, and community building. Find out more, please visit leadershape.org or connect with them on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn. And how will your institution rise to reach today’s socially conscious generation. These students report commitments to safety, wellbeing and inclusion are as important as academic rigor when selecting a college it’s time to reimagine the work of student affairs as an investment, not an expense for over 20 years Vector Solutions, which now includes the campus prevention network.

Keith Edwards:
Formally EverFi has been the partner of choice for more than 2000 colleges and universities and national organizations with nine efficacy studies behind their courses. You can trust and have full confidence that you’re using the standard of care for student safety, wellbeing and inclusion transform the future of your institution and the community serve. Learn more at vectorsolutions.com/studentaffairsnow, and a huge shout out to Nat Ambrosey, who we mentioned earlier, the production assistant for the podcast who does all the behind the scenes work to make us look and sound good if you’re listening today and not our already receiving our weekly newsletter, please visit our website at studentaffairsnow.com scroll over the bottom of the homepage to add your email to our MailChimp list while you’re there. Check out the archives. I’m Keith Edwards. Thanks again to our fabulous guests today and to everyone who’s watching and listening. Please make it a great week. Thank you all.