Carrie Brimhall
Yeah, well, if you’ve ever parented more than one child at a time, you’ll know that even though they’re grown up in the same house, with the same rules, they often have different ways of looking at the world and around the family structure and what rules they’re willing to listen to. And, and I always liken that to our campus structure. So we really tried to find the balance as a multi campus institution between those things that need to be the same like English curriculum and outcomes. And those things that can really be tweaked to mirror the needs and personality, quite honestly, of each of the four communities. We have rural communities, and we have a metropolitan community. One time I remember they were looking for a comparative institution in the nation and couldn’t find one to us, which I think is a celebration of the uniqueness.

Keith Edwards
Hello, and welcome to Student Affairs NOW, I’m your co host Keith Edwards. I’m also joined today by my co host, Michael Almond, who you will hear from in a little bit. Today we’re discussing the future of two year colleges, as this episode is a part of our 13 episode series from ACPAs 100th anniversary, and a partnership between HP and student affairs. Now I’m joined by two ACPA leaders in the space and a two year college president. I’m looking forward to hearing from you about the future of two year colleges and how we can better support these important institutions. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcasts an online learning community for 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays find more about this episode, or browse our archives studentaffairsnow.com. As I mentioned, today’s episode is sponsored by ACPA an independent 501 C three nonprofit association, which is sponsoring this special 13 episode series with Student Affairs NOW to celebrate their 100th anniversary boldly transforming higher education. As I also mentioned, I’m your host, I’m your co host, Keith Edwards, my pronouns are he him his. I’m a speaker, author and coach, and I help higher ed leaders and organizations make transformative change around leadership, learning, and equity. You can find out more about me at keithedwards.com. And I’m recording this today from my home in Minneapolis, Minnesota. At the intersections of the ancestral and current homelands of both the Dakota and the Ojibwe peoples. Over to you, Michael.

Michael Almond
Thanks, Keith. Hi, everyone. I’m your other co host, Michael Almond. My pronouns are he is. I’m currently Client Success and Support Coordinator at Ken Pulse Inc, which is a community engagement software for higher education and nonprofit organizations. And I’m recording today from Atlanta, Georgia, which is the ancestral homelands of the UT and Cherokees people. So let’s get this conversation started. I’m really excited to chat with all of our guests today. So we’ll just do some introductions of everyone. I’d love for you to share just learning about yourself, your pronouns, and then what is your connection to our topic today about to your institutions. So Carrie, I’ll have you started off.

Carrie Brimhall
Welcome and thanks for having me. My name is Carrie Brimhall. My preferred pronouns are she her and hers. I have a lot of connections to the to your college space. I’m currently have the privilege of leading a multi campus institution in Minnesota in central Minnesota. I’m a graduate of the same institution and I was a first generation college student when I stepped foot on campus. When I when I transferred to the University that I went to, I was asked to do an internship and public relations and advertising. So I came back to the two year college and I never left. So our students and their passion for their dreams and, and my passion for removing barriers to achieve them has kept me here for 26 years and counting.

Michael Almond
Thank you so much, Carrie. Next we’ll have Jo Introduce yourself.

JoHyun “Jo” Kim
Hello, I’m JoHyun Kim, but you can call me Jo. My pronouns are she and her. I am an associate professor of the Higher Education at Texas A&M University Commerce located on the territory of the Caddo tribe. Thank you for inviting me to this podcast and I’m honored to be here to share my experiences and insights working with ACPA and my deep committee month to two year colleges and the students they serve. Over the past four years, I have had the privilege of serving as the chair elect and the chair for the commission for two year colleges in ACPA. Additionally I have contributed to the imagining the future celebrating ACPA 100 years subcommittee, where our focus has been on exploring innovative ideas and strategies to shape the future of higher education and student affairs. I have been working in academia for almost two decades as a faculty and administrator in both community colleges and universities. Through my research efforts, I have concentrated on understanding the unique experiences and challenges faced by community college students and personnel. Furthermore, my experience teaching courses about American community quality systems and its students has provided valuable insight into the diverse needs of this student population. I’m enthusiastic about continuing to collaborate with the people in ACPA and other passionate individuals to advance the mission of supporting it empowering students and professionals within the realm of two year colleges.

Michael Almond
Thank you so much for the introduction, Jo. I appreciate that. And then last we’ll have Will introduce themselves.

William J Cribby
Good afternoon all. My name is Will Cribby. I am the Assistant Dean of Students at Bunker Hill Community College here in Boston, Massachusetts. I am the past pass chair now of the Commission for two year colleges with ACPA, and had a really wonderful tenure working working within the community college sector. And you may not notice, because this podcast but both Jo and I are coming off a glow of the ACPA convention where we, with our directorate, we’re able to host a number of meetings and activities and co sponsored programs really celebrating the community college sector, within ACPA. April is Community College month. So it’s very appropriate that we’ll be recording this podcast here in April. I have worked in student affairs within higher education for little over two decades, and have been here at Bunker Hill for just over six years. But I’ve worked at four year private public graduate programs, and now working here in the community college sector. I love the work that I do here in the community college. And I will talk about that a little bit more later. But I will say that I love working in and Boston, Massachusetts, it really is a higher ed Field of Dreams, working in Massachusetts, and I’m also a doctoral students. Just to share with folks, I am getting my doctorate my EDD at Northeastern University, I’m doing my dissertation on LGBTQIA2S+ a sense of belonging in the community college sector. And so just a little bit of an overview.

Michael Almond
Thank you all for those introductions. It’s really clear that you all have different experiences and different research interests and whatnot within related to the to your institution sector. So that’s really cool. And I’m excited to hear from all of you about your varied experiences today. So our first question that we just have for you is kind of just opening up the conversation about what exactly is to your institution? Sometimes there might be some definitions or words to clarify, or perhaps conversation. So I’d love to hear from each of you about what specifically are we talking about when we say two year institutions, and what all does that include? Jo, I hope he starts off this question.

JoHyun “Jo” Kim
Thank you and two year colleges, including community colleges, junior colleges and technical colleges play a vital role in the American higher education system. These institutions typically offer two year associate degrees, as well as certificate programs with a focus on providing accessible and affordable education to a wide range of students, including those who may face barriers to higher education. By providing open admission policies, lower tuition costs, and flexible schedules to your colleges aim to empower individuals from diverse backgrounds to pursue their career and educational goals. Community colleges serve as places for career preparation by offering vocational and technical education that prepare students for specific careers, and they also assist students with the transfer. They often have articulation agreements with the four year institutions are allowing students to easily transfer credits and continue their education toward a bachelor’s degree. In addition, community colleges play a pivotal role in continuing education and community services. They are deeply rooted in their communities. And that’s the reason why we call it community colleges and often offer non credit courses workforce development programs and community outreach initiatives like this. Community colleges play a crucial role in providing affordable and accessible education, workforce training and opportunities for career advancement for numerous students across the nation. This multi dimensional approach underscores their significance in higher education and student affairs.

William J Cribby
The only thing? Yeah, the one I would just add to that is really echoing what Joe said specifically around the community college representing the community that, that it’s that surrounds that that campus, and specifically recognizing that the community college is built to serve the community, that it that it is situated in. And so recognizing what are the community needs in regards to workforce development towards workforce training, towards education. And, and also the, the campus community also represents the greater community surrounding the college. And so that is a huge plus in that the the campus is thriving with representation of the community that they’re situated in.

Carrie Brimhall
I think that’s a really important part. And what I was going to add to is a reflection of the communities that we need to serve both in student and in region. And so we’re often community colleges are often known as a little bit more agile and flexible part of higher education, because we’re supposed to be getting rid of programs and adding programs every year that meet the needs of our region as workforce trends and needs change. So we are I think we’re faster to move sometimes in higher education. And And certainly, the, it’s not always as political when we add and drop because it’s usually following a process that mirrors the needs of the region. So we don’t get the pressure that sometimes universities get when we take away program options, because it’s often very obvious that the either not needed or industry moved on and did a noncredit option for training, or they’re moving so fast that they’re hiring our graduates before they graduate anyway, so then we adjust our programs accordingly. So I think we’re known as a pretty agile and fast moving part of higher education. And because we’re supposed to be reflecting the needs of our region.

Keith Edwards
I’m curious because you know, Will really emphasize this the, the rooted in the community that you’re a part of, and the location that you’re in, and and you mentioned, you’re, you’re leading an institution on in multiple places. I’m curious how you sort of navigated serving the community needs in multiple locations and multiple campuses?

Carrie Brimhall
Yeah, well, if you’ve ever parented more than one child at a time, you’ll know that even though they’re grown up in the same house, with the same rules, they often have different ways of looking at the world and around the family structure and what rules they’re willing to listen to. And, and I always liken that to our campus structure. So we really tried to find the balance as a multi campus institution between those things that need to be the same like English curriculum and outcomes. And those things that can really be tweaked to mirror the needs and personality, quite honestly, of each of the four communities. We have rural communities, and we have a metropolitan community. One time I remember they were looking for a comparative institution in the nation and couldn’t find one to us, which I think is a celebration of the uniqueness. So that’s the the interesting part about it. The beautiful part about a multi campus institution as a single accreditation is as needs change, we can move programs. So even within and among our campuses, we can shift Cohort Based Learning to maybe and maybe you don’t need dental hygienists in all four of our communities and program on each campus. But maybe there’s a cohort need on the east side of our campus, which is 90 minutes from the west side, that that we could run a cohort and then bring it back to the original campus where it was located. So it does, it does it’s four of everything for chambers for mayors, for sets of legislators, but we can use the benefit of that comprehensive look to really serve the region as a whole.

Keith Edwards
Right? Well, we were reframing this as the future of two year colleges. And so love to talk about sort of the current and future trends that you see. And we’ll begin with you, Carrie, you said you were a student and 26 year career, a lot of that in the Student Affairs and Student Services realm and now leading this institution, I’m sure you’ve seen an enormous amount of change in students and institutions and higher education and the needs you’re serving. What are you seeing now? And what do you may be seeing on the cusp of the horizon? Yeah,

Carrie Brimhall
well, two trends, I’d like to point out and then certainly want to hear from my colleagues as well, you know, the first is that there were there used to be tables, we weren’t invited to that were invited to, to the point where sometimes I say, I wish we were still the best kept secret in our communities, because the the demand for the work that we’re doing and the students we’re producing in the noncredit training hours that we are, you know, growing by leaps and bounds is is amazing. And it’s also really challenging the leadership structures and staffing structures that we’ve had at the college because people need, you know, we’ve had in our region we’ve had less than a 2% unemployment rate for years and so This is not new to us. But it’s just exacerbated by a data problem, which is we don’t have enough people for the jobs that we have in our region. So the competition for our students as free agents, I call them a you know, is fierce. And so we’re really having to think about what is that balance of teaching and learning and an employer connection. And that’s different because employers want access sooner, to more of our students, especially those that are rising to the top. So the demand for the work that we’re doing is greater than I’ve ever seen it and the pace with which we’re expected to operate is just, it continues to, to speed up, which puts a lot of pressure on us. Because the other trend that we see is, you know, one of the things I love most about the community colleges that we’re really modeling to meet students wherever they’re at. So for some students, we are their start point for some there were their restart point. For some we are they’re completely changed my life. Now we need to really get things in gear point. So one time our student government put a sign up that said, if you knew my story, you’d be proud of me signed every m State student love it. So I love it too. But yet, our folks are showing up to try to do individualized support, and learning plans for 8000 credit students and six to 8000 on credit students every day. So at the same time, we’re asked to move faster. Our students need us to pause and ask tell me more about you, as an individual, as a person who has dreams, who has hopes. So that that balance, I think those are the two trends I see at the same time, our students need us to be even more than we’ve ever been for them. We’re being asked to get them out faster in the door, which we know for we understand the reasons why that’s happening. We also know that students aren’t always ready. So when you you know, when you ask us to get them out faster, that doesn’t mean that they’ve had opportunity to critically think at the level that you want them to or, or develop the communication skills or, you know, all of those things that we know, that community colleges provide. Part of it is time that we need with students, and that’s a hot commodity right now as it comes to workforce. So taking care of people reminding them to take care of themselves is a big part of my job. At the same time, our outcomes are you know, I have pretty high expectations of outcomes of work. And so I think that balance between those two pressures and trends right now is is a culture it has a culture impact on the institution, and who’s choosing to do the work, and will continue to navigate that.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, while we see that trend of the needs going up and the staffing staying stable, or maybe even going down across higher ed. Jo, you’re you’re really researching and examining this at a more national scale. I’m wondering what you’re seeing in terms of current and future trends in this space.

JoHyun “Jo” Kim
Oh, I like to talk about your credit. And then colleges because, you know, we cannot overemphasize the role of community colleges related to your credit programs in our education system and to our credits are exploring in nation and the community colleges are doing a pivotal role in planning and implementing and providing to accredit courses and programs to students in the nation. So in what is called Dual Credit during normal or concurrent enrollment interchangeably students simultaneously on high school and carries the credits from a single class. So now they are a tool to encourage more Americans to enter in college by giving them on only a taste of post secondary education, and ahead the star where the credit hours aren’t. So to your credit programs have achieved remarkable growth over the past decade, about 1/3 of American high school students report having participated in dual credit, according to US Department of Education data published in 2019. And according to the National Student Clearinghouse research to our college students, are estimated to number more than 1.4 million in the fall of 2022 and account for almost one out of five community college student. Community colleges play a pivotal role into your credit overseeing roughly 70% of your COVID environment and additionally, more roles for community colleges in planning and implementing dual credit program are expected so I think in nation in the education system, I think community college replay more and more important role in particular because of the explosion and the dramatic growth and increase or put your credit in donation system.

Carrie Brimhall
I think that’s a really critical piece. And to tie that together with I believe, I don’t know all of you, but all of our passion toward equitable outcomes. The piece that’s missing in that equation in that growth is serving the students who will end up in community colleges. So there is a there’s a an enormous equity gap in who is being served by dual credit enrollment nationally, and certainly within state, we’ve got work to do a lot of work to do, and who’s even been provided those opportunities to connect to those courses in our high school partners, you know, that that’s the next level conversation for community colleges, from my perspective, and I we grow again, with 40 high schools, we have a really large region. And yet we know there are families and students who don’t have that opportunity presented to them that are likely to benefit in different ways, lifelong ways. If they were if they were given the chance to enroll.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, we’ve got a whole nother episode on dual enrollment. So thanks for bringing that in. And folks who want to learn more, we talked about that, and really gets into the issues that the both of you are pointing to. Will, what else do you see as you look out your door and look into your crystal ball?

William J Cribby
Yeah, I would say that equity and access to higher education is is really key. And I think that when we look at higher education in the United States, little over 30% of students enrolled in higher education or in community colleges in the US. And I think that that number is not necessarily publicized as widely as it should. But I think that the the piece you also already spoke to Keith, was that although we do serve a lot of students in the community college sector, we don’t get the same equitable financial support from local and federal government. And so we’re, we’re kind of stuck in a bind, where we’re doing more with less. And so Joe, and I talked about this, and I’m sure Kerry will understand this we talk about as Student Affairs practitioners, we all wear multiple hats in the community college sector, we don’t just do one thing, we carry lots of responsibilities, because we don’t have the funding to have the teams we might have at a four year private institution. And so we do more with less. And we we make do we’re generalists in our work. And so when we talk Student Affairs, we talked about student affairs generally, because we all carry lots of responsibilities. But then within that, the other piece, you know, we talk about trying to provide access to education for all the gateways. And so within the community college sector, I know here in Massachusetts, just this fall, we opened, mass reconnect, and free community college for all and so all domestic students in Massachusetts 25 Plus who have not achieved a degree of higher education can come to school and in the community colleges, and get free tuition. And then we extended that further for free for all so all students and so and so that is, you know, here in Massachusetts really is is trying to combat equity to provide access to education for all students who may think that they can’t do higher education or can’t access, higher education. And so we’re breaking down the barriers taking out the financial challenge of higher education. And that’s not just for tuition. It’s also for other needs, like textbooks and other school needs. And so supporting our students providing programs that provide child assistance, discounted travel to get to campus SNAP benefits, food pantries on our campuses, we really tried to do wraparound services to support all of our student needs. And recognizing that coming to school is a burden. It’s not just a financial burden. It’s also a responsibility burden. And so really providing programs and services that wraparound to so that students have no excuse to not achieve a degree of higher education and really supporting their success and making sure they have access to all they need. So that they don’t go without but they also are able to be successful in their education.

Carrie Brimhall
One last trend, I’d like to make sure that I bring up because it’s fresh. In my mind, though I haven’t had a lot of time to process. I am part of the Aspen president’s fellowship, the first inaugural cohort of presidents who have been in the role for at least five years and we did meet a couple weeks ago to review the 3.0 framework for community colleges nationally. And the long and short of it as it used to be 1.0 was getting access and exploring ways that we can get students and and folks to come to our campuses that have not traditionally had access to education. 2.0 was getting them to the finish line. But 3.0 is really saying that our responsibility doesn’t end there. It ends with what happens to them after our institutions. And when we think about student affairs specifically advise Being dual enrollment, all of those wraparound services, it’s to the end goal of owning a home and being productive citizens in a community and earning a livable wage. That changes how we advise what programs we choose. And Aspen was really suggesting based on their research that that’s that next level of thinking and community colleges is having programs that that meet those criteria and encouraging students to think beyond the academic needs that they have this term, but then momentum that they need to get to that level of life changing success.

Keith Edwards
You say those criteria again, was it own a home living wage engaged citizens?

Carrie Brimhall
Yeah, that’s what I would define an end. I can’t remember what the term they use it but you know, is basically transfer just because they transferred doesn’t mean we found success, we have to think about what happened when they transferred. Did they successfully complete, did they? And what are those transfer partnerships, seamless partnerships look like for our students, not necessarily students that start at the university. And then the other challenge that they have is putting your programs academic programs in high value and low value like buckets. And being real about the fact that we’re training students and taking, you know, putting them in debt, for careers that don’t have a livable wage. And so it’s really that after post stem state mindset, which does change, advising, and our interactions with students Concur services, and throughout our entire institution, so I’m still processing it was two weeks ago that we got together as a group of presidents to really discuss what that means for our institutions and what our obligations are to closing the equity gap in wages in our counties. And that’s fascinating and scary data. So beyond completion to that next level, it’s a trend that I see continuing to grow as Aspen and other folks look deeper into the data.

JoHyun “Jo” Kim
So I’d like to piggyback on what the Will said about you know, how the community college student affairs personnel, how most hats there are weary and during the convention, we talk a lot and our commission members are most of them are the people who work in the community colleges and serving community college students. And during the convention, we were asked by several people, then what’s the difference between university student affairs versus two year college student affairs? And what we answer to them is, you know, while both University and two year college student affairs department share the common goal of supporting students and enhancing their overall college experiences, University Student Affairs departments typically have larger budgets and more resources compared to two year colleges, allowing them to offer a wider range of programs and services and facilities, then two year colleges, to your colleges may have more limited resources, and may need to prioritize essential support services with a smaller step and budget. So it’s always amazing to see how they help students, you know, serve a wide range of students in providing personalized the service with these limitations. So it’s always, you know, pleasant, surprising to see how, you know, people in community colleges help and serve students.

Carrie Brimhall
Yeah, and circling back to the pace with which we operate when we hire folks that have worked at university. And they come to student or, and I would say Academic Affairs, too. I think everybody in community colleges is wearing more than one hat. Maybe not our faculty, but everybody else that supports Academic Affairs is too. But the pace with which we operate takes a lot of adjustment for folks who have worked at or in universities.

Michael Almond
I appreciate all these different perspectives as someone who I’ve never actually directly experienced community college setting, as a student or as a professional. So it’s really interesting to hear these perspectives in terms of like what is currently happening within that, that setting as well as what’s coming in the future. So I think that’s all really interesting context to have into this conversation. And so obviously, this podcast is sponsored by ACPA. And really getting us to understand the goal of this conversation is to help us understand, you know, what are some of those needs coming up for to your institutions in the future? And how can an association like ACPA play a role in supporting those institutions to meet those needs, whether they be about student success, affordability, accessibility, those things? So I’m just curious to know what can I see Association like a better to support or continue supporting your institutions and each your respective roles?

William J Cribby
I think I think I’m slated to go first on this one. So I think for myself, when I think about these national organizations, I think what’s most important is the awareness. I think that we we find ourselves for those who attend these national conventions, or attend these workshops and trainings, podcasts, whatever they might be the ACPA, all of the different webinars that are offered. For those of us who work in the community college sector, we’re always looking for that that thread that we can connect to, that connects us to these educational opportunities or professional development opportunities. Whereas there’s very few that’s really focused specifically on the community college sector. And so that that that needs to change a little bit. And that’s not to say, throw out, throw out everything that ACPA does, I think that there just needs to be a little bit more intention about the inclusion of community colleges, within professional development within workshops, and more opportunities for representation. Because we’re, we’re, as I said, We represent over 30% of higher education in the United States. And so I think that it would be important for us to, to include more, more programming that specific towards community college, or more inclusive to community college within, within within that. But then beyond that, I think that it’s just really important to really talk about the success, success, sorry, success stories of higher education. I work at Bunker Hill Community College, it was featured in Goodwill Hunting. And so thinking about the success stories of, of, you know, I advise our student government association, I have students that Transfer To Institutions like Yale, Columbia, Harvard, MIT, and, and transfer and as juniors, they pick Hi, there, their tuition for two years, their first year in sophomore year at a community college, and then transfer to one of these other institutions. And when they graduate, their debt is so much less than then than their peers who started at those institutions. And so the community college really is the not only the gateway to higher education, but it also prepares students to successfully transfer by giving them the supports and services, they need to learn how to be a successful student. And then when they transfer on to another institution, and graduate. They’re not just a success story of where they’ve they get their terminal degree, their success story, because of the community college that helped shape them and prepare them to be successful at that institution. And there needs to be more promotion of that. And recognition. And community colleges need more funding, we need more staff, because we could do more with more. So I’ll step off my soapbox. And let the others chime in.

Carrie Brimhall
I think, oh, go ahead, Jo. No, go ahead.

JoHyun “Jo” Kim
Oh, so I think, you know, this kind of podcast can be a good start, you know, when, Will and I were invited and about individuating, this podcast, we were kind of really happy about this opportunity by ACPA, because, you know, whenever we go to ACPA, Will and I and other the commission members, you know, we feel like we are in the mine, mine already there. So we try to kind of show our existence, you know, to the people in ACPA. So, I think this is gonna be a good start, you know, to have this kind of topic and I’d like to talk about the stigma surrounding community colleges because they still exist, and we need the kind of help and assistance like ACPA to be professional organization to improve it. The stigma surrounding community crisis often revolves around the perceptions of academic quality and prestage compared to a four year experience. And some people view community colleges as a last resort or stepping stone rarer than a legitimate pathway to higher education. And there may also be stereotypes about students such as assumptions that community college students are less capable or motivated. However, these stigmas are often unfounded and fail to recognize the valuable role of community colleges play in the providing accessible, affordable and high quality education to diverse student populations. In reality, community colleges offer a wide range of excellent academic and vocational education support services and pathways to further education and career success, it is essential to challenge these stereotypes and recognize the value over contribution of community colleges to higher education and society as a whole. So Will and Carrie share, you know, through this podcast, you know, what community college is it to, to improve student Education and Communities and education overall. But we are always kind of under estimated and under evaluated, I think, in order to you know, change these images, we need encouragement and assistance from the kind of organization like ACPA. So thanks again for this opportunity.

Carrie Brimhall
Very important points. Thank you both for continued advocacy for our work, I think I see a lot of work that can be done to talk about all of the students that community colleges serve and universities at this point. But you know, I so much of focus on full time and right out of high school students who are in high school students and less on how we need to think to serve students who have different needs are adult students and other students which are growing, you know, by numbers. So as an organization, just thinking about the language we use, as we present and build out sessions to end who we’re talking about in the industry is really important. And the other thing I think that all national organizations can do is be real about the work and provide ongoing support for people as they transition from the this is amazing work, I’m changing all these lives to oh my gosh, I don’t know that I can do this, too, this is amazing work to I don’t know that I can ever make another difference. Again, that is a natural part of Student Affairs work, it’s a natural part of community college work. And again, because the pace is just so different, I think that people cycle in and out of that pretty quickly. But helping people see that you have to put your stuff, you can’t get everything done, you can’t serve every student, you have to be real about the work in order to stay whole as a person. And I just don’t think I see a lot of professional development that is real about what it takes to be to say yes to this work, and more importantly, to see us for a long period of time, everyone can see us for a short period of time. But burnout is real in our industry, because we are working with students with incredible needs, who are amazing, but also demand a lot of us in order to get them to the finish line. We’d love every ounce of that. But wish we you know, fewer resources and other things people I don’t find, I think our staff are always putting students needs before their own, which goes on for a period of time until it can’t. So the kind of crash and burn of the industry. And how do you pull yourself back from that? How do you recognize the signs in yourself that you’re starting to get maybe a little more cynical, than is worth a worth being in this work? How do you reframe toward your what your purpose is? All of that I think is really helpful. But it’s not a one time workshop, it’s an ongoing reminder of the value of the work, as my colleagues have said, so I think that ongoingness and the reality of the job and what we’re asking folks to say yes to is a big part of what I speak about when I’m out and about. And I think we need to be talking about more throughout the nation.

Keith Edwards
That there’s a real theme here about the the need and the magic of the experience. And then also all the things that the students are needing to be successful, and then the sustainability of that. So thanks to all of you for your perspectives. We are running out of time and this podcast is called Student Affairs NOW so we always like to end with asking your guests What are you thinking? Troubling or pondering now might be related to our conversation or might be just something that is with you. And if you want to share where folks can connect with you, you’re welcome to do that as well. Jo, we’ll start with you. What are you thinking troubling or pondering now?

JoHyun “Jo” Kim
As we are wrapping up this podcast, I cannot help thinking about the big opportunities and tough challenges ahead for two year colleges. From making sure everyone has a shot at education to getting students ready for a job market. They are crucial for individuals, communities and our society as a whole. As we navigate the twists and turns of higher education, I’m eager to keep brainstorming new ideas and pushing for change that really matters and spreading the word about how great two year colleges are. Thanks for being here today. And let’s keep working hard to make two year colleges even better for the students they serve. I’m looking forward to engaging in meaning for discussions and contributing to the ongoing dialogue surrounding the future of higher education and student affairs. If you have any questions or comments, please contact me Thank you.

Keith Edwards
Will, what’s with you now?

William J Cribby
This is a heavy topic. Well, I think that, you know, we’re just at the very beginning of April, it is Community College month, I think that it’s important that, that folks recognize the community colleges in their in their communities, and, and really celebrate them. I think back to myself, when I was in high school, looking at colleges and universities, the different representatives that would visit my high school, and I remember telling a teacher that I was going to go and check out a community college that was coming to campus, and it was a community college in the town that I lived in and getting the message from them, are you setting your sights that low. And that has stuck with me all these years later, first generation college kid next to last of nine children, no one in my family went on to college, I’m going to be the first in my family to get my doctorate. And and I struggled in my undergrad I changed my major three times, I wasn’t sure what what I was going to school for and what I wanted to do with my life. And it was the the supports that I got through student affairs that really opened up my eyes to because I started my undergrad as a zoology major. So complete shift when it was, but it was the folks that supported me and helped me to find resources to support my success, that really opened up my eyes to a new world and a new career path. And so I think Student Affairs work is so important. But it’s even more important, as we’ve all said in the community college sector, and just making sure that our students have what they need that they’re getting access to, to the supports that they need, but also that they feel that they belong. And I think that that’s one of the biggest challenges and barriers in higher education is about feeling belonging, a feeling that you’ve made the right choice, and that you’re you’re celebrated and welcome and supported in that institution. And that’s all of our work. And we all need to do that. And so I think that in the community colleges, recognizing the diverse communities we serve, it’s really, really important that we also be very mindful of those diverse voices and faces and making sure that there’s room for all at the table.

Carrie Brimhall
I started to be a cop. So here we go with our own stories. How we took a real pivot biology police officers Yeah, right. I don’t know what I was thinking. But other than I admire the profession and the work, what keeps me up at night, especially this time of year month, starting in a in the month of our community colleges are always a little bit frazzled. And so what keeps me up at night here, right now is really the individual students that make their way all through the appeal process to my office. Not only do I care about the fact that they’re not achieving their dreams, and somehow along the way, we had policies and procedures that didn’t didn’t remove the barriers that then they needed to be removed in order to be successful. But it’s the systemness even though we’re greedy, we have amazing folks, we’re still a system, that doesn’t always help everyone get to the finish line equitably. So what keeps me up at night is how do you tear that apart in a way that doesn’t blow everything up, quite honestly and create chaos for folks. But but does start to challenge even those things we think we know. And so it’s really how did this student fall through the cracks? I mean, every every year around this time, I think, how did this happen? You know how, and we have folks, everybody here shows up trying to do their best for students every single day. And yet we do still have students who fall through those cracks. And so how can we catch them sooner? Before it’s life changing before they owe us $5,000? Before before before so I that’s what keeps me up this time of years I it’s really hard to look at a nursing student or a healthcare student who has 82.9% in an 83% required class and say, You’re not going to be a nurse unless you come back next semester and retake a class and do all these other things. So that’s that’s right now it’s fresh in my mind, because it’s that time of year where appeals come to the highest level with desperate students whose dreams are not going to be met at least not at this time. So coaching them through that and helping them understand we’ve all been there with a grade we didn’t like or didn’t want to have and helping them see the realness of the fact that they can do this and overcome whatever challenge they have is, is fresh on my mind right now.

Keith Edwards
Oh, thank you.

Michael Almond
Yeah, thank you all again for sharing your perspectives and your personal narratives about the work that you do. I think this gives me a lot of a lot of points to reflect on. Hopefully, it’s given the same to our listeners as well. So thank you again for all being in the space, and I’ll send it to Keith.

Keith Edwards
Awesome. Yeah, thank you all. This has been terrific. And also thanks to our sponsor, ACPA, ACPA college student, educators International is celebrating its 100th anniversary in boldly transforming higher education by creating and sharing influential scholarship, shaping Critically Reflective practice, and advocating for equitable, inclusive learning environments. ACPA aspires to be a higher education and student affairs most inclusive and community driven Association by leading our profession, in centering social justice, racial justice and decolonization as deep as defining concepts of our time and the foreseeable future. Visit acpa.org to connect with them on Instagram, Facebook, and X. To learn more about ACPA a huge shout out as always, to our producer, Natalie Ambrosey who does all the behind the scenes work to make us all look and sound good. We love the support for these important conversations from our community, which is you you can reach even more by subscribing to our podcast, subscribing to YouTube, or subscribing to our weekly newsletter, where you’ll find out about the newest episodes each Wednesday morning. You’re so inclined, you can leave us a five star review. It really helps these conversations reach more folks. I’m Keith Edwards with Michael Almond. Thanks again to the fabulous guest today and to everyone who’s watching and listening. Make it a great week. Thank you all.

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