Bryce McKibben
You know, what’s really sticking with me is just how important is not to let the findings of this report or it’s even its way of analyzing the problem in basic needs to security as a one and done thing? You know, yes, we are. There’s this report is analyzing the Hope Center data in a given year, but hundreds of colleges are running student basic needs surveys, some states are doing it in a coordinated way. Each of them should be analyzing the race and ethnicity gaps among their students, and taking it on and seeing what it means for them. Hope Center does that with colleges directly help them sort of, you know, crack open their data and look at the gaps and implications. But you know, this really shouldn’t be happening every single day, and helping inform policy going forward to be able to understand disparate impacts here.

Keith Edwards
Hello, and welcome to Student Affairs NOW, I’m your host Keith Edwards. Today we’re discussing the report from the Hope Center on the implications of racial inequities on basic needs insecurity during the COVID 19 pandemic. I’m joined by folks involved with this report based on a survey of almost 200,000 college students and numerous focus groups. Looking forward to discussing the findings, the implications and the recommendations for campus leaders and policy. Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and online learning community for 1000s of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays find details about this episode, or browser archives at Student Affairs now.com. Today’s episode is sponsored by Symplicity. A true partner Symplicity supports all aspects of student life with technology platforms that empower institutions to make data driven decisions. As I mentioned, I’m your host, Keith Edwards, my pronouns are he him his. I’m a speaker and author and coach helping leaders in organizations make transformations for leadership, learning and equity. You can find out more about me at keithedwards.com. I’m broadcasting from Minneapolis, Minnesota, at the intersections of the ancestral homelands of both the Dakota in the Ojibwe peoples. So I’m really excited to have folks here joining us today. love to have you come in and introduce yourselves. You all have been working with this report, sharing it and the implications. And love to hear more Rjaa. Let’s begin with you.

Rjaa Ahmed
Awesome, thank you so much, Keith, really excited to be here. Thank you for having us. My name is Rjaa, I use both they them and she her pronouns either are fine. And a really cool anecdote I like to share when introducing myself as that my name means hope in Arabic. And I work at the Hope Center, which is just a very funny coincidence for me. So I work as a communications associate at the Hope Center, I am involved in formatting reports, disseminating them handling social media handling our newsletter. So I just have like my fingers and everything that we’re producing. I’m excited to be here.

Keith Edwards
Yeah. Thanks for being here. And Bryce, tell us a little bit about you.

Bryce McKibben
Ah, thanks for having us, Keith. Hard to follow our job, because I’m not sure that I bring hope into the conversation because I work in the area of policy, but named Bryce McKibben and he’s he him pronouns. I’m the senior director of policy advocacy at the Hope Center. So I lead all of our work, focusing on sort of what’s going on in federal government, and nationally across the country, which can be a little depressing sometimes when we’re looking for more action from our policymakers. But always happy to uplift, what’s going on the field of student based means and try to help us find solutions.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, we’ve got hope and practical. And let’s turn to Frank, tell us a little bit about you.

Frank Harris III
Hey, how you doing, Keith? Pleasure to be here, Frank Harris III he him his pronouns, I have the pleasure of serving as a professor in the post secondary education program at San Diego State. And I also co directs the community college equity assessment lab at SDSU, as well, and I’ve been involved in equity centered research for well over a decade now. And so this work around basic needs, insecurities, falls in line with a lot of our work on racial, ethnic, racial equity. We do some work that’s focused on student health and wellness, mental health. So this is all a part of a long research agenda to really get to institutionalize equities in ways that are beneficial for our students, and the institutions in which they are enrolled. Pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Keith Edwards
It’s great to be with you all love reading the report and some of the implications and some of the things notice, but just for folks who are not as familiar, we’ll share a link to it in the show notes so you can get it and it came out about two months before this episode will air so folks may have seen it and coming back to it. Rjaa help us understand how this research was done. And some of the major findings from the results.

Rjaa Ahmed
Yeah, of course. Um, so I feel like for me, the research report while I was like designing it, and also like just, you know, involved in efforts to disseminate it. One thing that really like struck me was the fact that we shouldn’t be still be talking about an equity in 2023 Like we we have advanced so much as a society I feel like but racial inequities continue to plague literally every aspect of our life, including college access. And I feel like a lot of the times we don’t, we tend to think that, you know, slavery and indigenous genocide that happened at the inception of like, the United States, like that’s all in the past. But those inequities and those justice issues, like they’re still very much prevalent. And, you know, one thing that really struck me was the fact that black and indigenous students continue to face like super high rates of basic needs insecurity at about 70%. So I feel like we love to throw numbers around in academia. But to me, it’s just really concerning that seven and 10 students who are black and indigenous face like food insecurity, housing insecurity, and so many other forms of basic needs and securities. And I feel like, especially with the context of Thanksgiving coming up, I feel like we have this tendency to really like sugarcoat and whitewash our history and make it seem like it wasn’t as bad. But, you know, at the same time, critical race theory, education about that is continuing to get banned throughout the country. And we just really need to reckon with our history and really need to understand the implications of that, that continue to harm indigenous and black students as well as other Brown students. So we found out like really high rates of basic needs insecurity among non white student populations, as well as really high rates of mental illness amongst those people, indigenous women are the most likely to face anxiety and depression while attending college. And, you know, really need to understand that not only are they facing higher rates of basic needs, and security, they’re also facing all of these intersecting challenges that make it so hard for them to remain in college and persist in college. And, you know, we like to think of like the promise of higher education as something that’s going to help people succeed and gain upward social mobility. But the reality is, that’s not the case for everyone. We are looking at the world where a college degree costs like around 60 to $70,000 per year, and that that’s at the lower end, that’s just tuition. And that’s more than what many families make in a year. And we’re looking at students who don’t have parental support, to support themselves through college, who are employed throughout college to make ends meet. And, you know, a lot of like, you know, this delusion of capitalism, and the American dream is that if you work hard, you’re going to eventually get there. But a lot of these students, they don’t have the same starting point as so many white students, so many upper middle class students. So no matter how hard they try, they’re going to continue to face really dire inequities. And I feel like that is just so it should not be happening in 2023. It’s like we are so beyond that point where like, we need to understand like our history, and then also connected with what’s going on in the present, sadly, those issues, they’re not only problem, they’re actually getting worse, as time goes by. And we see that even students who are employed, even they faced like 70, to 80% 70 to 80% of them are basic needs insecure. So they’re working hard, they’re trying their best, but the system is not designed for them. And I feel like that begs this bigger question of is the system failing? Or is was the system built this way? Is it like operating as it was supposed to be? Because I feel like the system was very much designed to lock out black and indigenous students. And we are seeing seeing that around us right now. And I feel like the system of higher education that’s so profit driven, I feel like we need to do away with that. And we need to just figure out a way to center students, and really make sure that we’re supporting them the best. No, I wrote back. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. I was just gonna say Frank, and obviously, expand more on the methodology. But for me, it was just really heartbreaking to see these numbers. Yeah.

Keith Edwards
And I’d love to hear Frank for more about the research and how it’s done almost 200,000 students in the fall of 2020. So in the first six months ish, of COVID impact and some focus groups that happened even earlier than that, tell us a little bit and Rjaa highlighted some of the sort of big headlines, the big striking things. Tell us a little bit more about the research and some of the findings.

Frank Harris III
Yeah, thank you. And thank you, Raja, for for sort of, you know, establishing the context and getting us going and really helping us understand that, you know, despite all of the efforts and the supports that are in place, our students are really struggling, you know, in the students who need to support the most, and perhaps the students who maybe have the most again ain, you know, from access and completion of higher education are the ones that are most seem to be most vulnerable at this time, which is, which is really concerning for all of us, you know, tons of research, we know, the Hope Center has a long history of doing work to really help elevate and illuminate, you know, institutional and, you know, policymakers attentions around, you know, the the prevalence of basic needs, insecurities, amongst college students in particular. So, this project allowed us to really access some of the data that the Hope Center had collected, you know, right around the onset, and in the early phases of the pandemic, as Keith shared, you know, so very robust data set, you know, spanning, you know, hundreds of 1000s of students, and, you know, many institutions, and then the work that I do, and my colleagues at seal, you know, a lot of our work has been qualitative in nature. So, during the pandemic, and around that time, we had been asked by, you know, a handful of our partner institutions, to do some student focus groups, you know, to kind of really understand what their lived experiences, you know, not just around basic needs of securities, but around the pandemic, around the racial reckoning, which is a, you know, important focus of this project, as well and just kind of help understand, you know, what are they experiencing, you know, how are they making sense of the world in which they’re living in, you know, what institutional support and what, you know, community supports? are helping them? Are they finding helpful and useful and making their way through? And then what advice and what are some things that they think institutions could be doing to better serve them better support them. And so this project that all of us to bring all of that, that work together, together, and all the data together, and the end result is this report that we have? And, you know, again, to Josh’s point, that, you know, one of the big takeaways for me is the, the incredibly complex and intersectional nature, you know, of basic needs insecurities, right? It’s, it’s, it’s the women of color, right? It’s women who may be parents, you know, as students who may be a part of the LGBT QA plus community, right, which can exacerbate basic needs insecurities, because of family dynamics. You know, it’s students who are working, but not earning a livable wage, right, it’s students who are enrolled, but maybe they’re attending online, and that’s, that’s having some impact, you know, on their access, and their success, you know, the access to resources, etc. So there’s all these layers that really complicate our understanding of basic needs, insecurities, you know, both they’re prevalent, as well as their impact. And the other big takeaway, I think, is that we hope that this report provides, you know, again, some impetus for you know, folks who are in a position to actually do something about it, whether we’re talking about our policymakers, or whether we’re talking about institutional leaders who, who have some impact on how resources are deployed to students. You know, this, this podcast is primarily for our colleagues and Student Affairs. And so we know that oftentimes, it’s our colleagues and Student Affairs who are, you know, best positioned to sort of recognize what’s happening with students, but also often have the knowledge and awareness of campus and community to support that are available to them. And so it’s just really kind of bringing this information together in a way that provides a transparent understanding, but hopefully, more importantly, that really helps to understand and provide some urgency to this. And, you know, the other thing I’ll add, is really sort of seeing this as a holistic issue. Right. So the report is about basic needs and securities, but we know that there’s implications for students and and mental health and wellness, whether it has implications for students, and their academic success, their persistence and retention, you know, in their their career development, right. There’s all these other things that are impacted. And I think this report does, you know, I think a good job of sort of elevating that, in many ways, because of, you know, the, the data that was, you know, used to rain develop it.

Keith Edwards
I love your point about the students who are most struggling are the ones who have the most promise and potential and the most need for success through higher education, attendance and completion. And I think you’re right, too. When we think about student affairs professionals, I don’t I don’t know that any student affairs professionals are surprised by what this report illustrates from their experience. But it’s nice to have the data and nice to have the day to be on their campus, right. We maybe are thinking about the students who I interact with an IC and is that story accurate? Or is I see this on our campus and what’s wrong with us and why are we struggling? But to see that these are data reliable, large data set, as you pointed to, broadly happening, I think gives us a better perspective and a better way at challenge Seeing and addressing some of this. Bryce, I know we’re gonna get here in a little bit to the implications for campus leaders and policymakers. I want to just see if you have anything to add. What stands out for you from this report? What really, you work in this realm? You’re talking with policy leaders, what are some of the things from this report that you find wanting at your fingertips to sort of explain and help people understand this?

Bryce McKibben
Yeah, I think Rjaa and Dr. Harris spoke to the larger implications much better than I could. But I just want to situate the context of the data to mean this is a survey that’s been run for about 10 years now from the Hope Center, and from our predecessor, but also replicated by hundreds of institutions and even state agencies across the country. And it is a it is a rigorously designed study that has been pressure tested and captures a really wide range of information around what students are experiencing, I think people’s first way of getting to know the student basic needs field is often around food security, you know, are do folks have enough to eat, are they able to afford groceries. And we know that that’s a huge problem now as a result of significant inflation during the pandemic, but it is so much broader than that it is, you know, housing, probably the largest costs that students are facing in higher education, it’s childcare if they’re a parenting student, which is, you know, a much more prevalent cost than most folks are aware it’s healthcare. It’s a it’s a huge range. And I think, just to situate, having reliable data in the context of a emerging pandemic, but then also the the sort of post what now period, we saw this huge decline in students enrolling in higher education. And part because we had a pandemic going on unprecedented circumstances, you know, we’re still missing about a million students relative to what we had pre pandemic levels enrolled in higher education. So people decided to change their, their, their current, their trajectory of where they wanted to go. And when they wanted to go to higher ed, whether they valued it at all, and coming out of that pandemic period, trying to attract those students back to higher education, we have to wrestle with this very rigorous data, sort of staring us in the face of the incredible equity problems we have in our campus, right, we have enormous race and ethnicity gaps in the types of services that students are able to access and support. So not only higher prevalence rates, but also the students who are most likely to struggle are the least likely to access all of the supports that folks have put into place. And we can’t stop at things like you know, oh, there’s a food pantry on campus. So we’ve thought thought solve the problem. This report and the data paints such a bigger systemic issue and implications for both campuses and more and policymakers that we’re going to talk about, but I just wanted to say, you know, in terms of what it means for us as a higher education system overall, it is that this problem is urgent, it is deeply tied to who goes to higher education was able to afford it and definitely was able to complete

Keith Edwards
Yeah, and I think we often use sort of the the new narrative of rather than look for college ready students, how do we make student ready colleges, right, which sounds good. And then how do you do that? I think this report says, Here are the big gaps, the students are struggling in ways that wasn’t always the case. We have better understandings, the breadth and access and who we’re trying to draw, and who we’re trying to make available, is really shifting and changing. And if we’re going to be a student, ready college, or community college or university or institution or technical college, that means different things. And I think this really highlights what that means. And providing the kind of structures and support to meet students and the challenges. They’re navigating. Let’s shift to

Bryce McKibben
oh, you know, also want to offer to keep this not necessarily the new student, we may have actually just been uncovering what students were experiencing for the last decade. And we’re only finally just understanding the full implications of these these gaps too. So it’s a yes and to your to your comment, we’re shifting the practices in higher education are also catching up to what we probably should have been paying attention to the last one year.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, great point. Great point. I want to shift to the what what can campus leaders do? And I’m thinking, not just presidents and VPs, but also directors and assistant directors and new professionals who are leading at all places in the organization. Frank in a previous life, you were a student affairs professional, we still we still claim you what what do you see as you’re looking through the data through the report, what sort of stands out to you as something that really should draw the attention and that campus leaders should really be prioritizing to help address some of this?

Frank Harris III
Yeah, thank you, Keith. I still I still identify as a student affairs educator and researcher right is still good, a very much a part of my my professional life. Identity, what should Student Affairs educators do? I think more of what, what we’ve been trying to do, right really knowing our students and really trying to provide opportunities for voice, right either for students to share in their own voice, you know, what’s, you know, what’s impacting them. And it also for, for Student Affairs educators, to be the voice of students, when it comes to advocacy, when it comes to, you know, champion and coming up with policies and resources, that we know are critical to success. I think it’s also important for student affair’s educators to know the students on your campus. So this report, you know, the great thing about is that it, you know, because of the data that’s collected, it does capture it, it’s a pretty wide net, in terms of who’s represented. But what we also know is that, you know, every institution has its own institution has its own culture, you know, has its own assets, and has its own liabilities in many respects. Right. So understanding kind of how, you know, a student who’s at an urban community college that, you know, maybe they’re not it when there’s no residential community, right, how they may be experiencing this, and how that may be different from a student who’s at, you know, a royal four year institution where there is a residential community and how, you know, how does that provide an opportunity to help students, and what challenges that create and being able to identify the students who need to support the most, I think professional, ongoing, professional learning, right, as soon as, as educators, we have to continue to commit to learning more about this, whether that means we’re reading more, whether that means we’re attending, you know, conferences, webinars, and even more importantly, is taking what we’re learning. And, you know, sharing it with our colleagues making sure that it’s a part of our day to day operations and briefings that we have, on a regular basis, we’re talking about it in staff meetings, these are data informed conversations, you know, both in terms of you know, what data in a report like this might say, but even more importantly, what is our institutional data, you know, saying to us, and by data, I don’t mean just, you know, sort of the quantitative, traditional quantitative data, I’m talking about, you know, any data that you can let you can collect, that provide some understanding of student’s lived experiences. And then, you know, the resources, making sure that the resources that are in place are actually effective, that they’re reaching the students who need them, that they are, you know, doing a good job of making sure that students get what they need from them. And that might mean, it was something that we traditionally didn’t have to do, right, going into the classroom, perhaps partnering with our faculty colleagues, who we may not identify as Student Affairs, folks, right. But who may be well positioned to help identify students who may need support. early alert systems, I know a lot of institutions have, you know, early alert systems and ways of identifying students who may be struggling, really making sure that we understand, you know, what those those resources are on our campus and making sure that if there are alerts that those alerts get to the right people as soon as possible. So those are those are some things that immediately come to mind. I’m sure that there’s more that can be said, but I think those are, you know, when I think about where do we start, you know, those four or five things that things that immediately come to mind.

Keith Edwards
I’m thinking about making sure that those resources exist. Yeah, make sure that students know about them, and that they’re de stigmatized is really coming to mind as I’m hearing you, Bryce, what sort of pops for you in terms of what what where should campus leaders be nudged here?

Bryce McKibben
Yeah, I mean, I think the implications for how you change institutional supports and practice I mean, they’re, they’re just dozens and dozens of them. But you know, at a at a larger level that need to create a culture of care and inclusion for black and brown students has really never been more important. I think this data quantifies that right? The larger context of this data is that we have legislation in 22 states attacking diversity, equity inclusion, we have a Supreme Court, you know, that has ruled against race conscious admissions, we have record levels of, of hate crimes occurring across the country. This is a hostile environment for black and brown students right now. It is difficult to enter higher education and feel safe, let alone included in the daily activities of an institution. And this is a call to action for campus leaders to be able to recognize the larger context in which their students are trying to to access higher education and succeed, right, so, you know, at a very higher level, I think getting calls on our campus leaders to message the importance of a fully diverse and inclusive environment on campus. That you know, only when everyone has equitable access to the supports on campus into an it’s feeling hurt by their administrators, are students actually going to feel welcome to begin with?

Keith Edwards
Rjaa one of the reasons we like hope so much is it reminds us that change is possible things can be different things can improve. What do you see as what folks who are on a particular campus can do to mitigate some of these racial inequities? And as Frank pointed out these intersectional things around gender and sexual orientation are on so many different things. What do you Where would you like to nudge campus leaders?

Rjaa Ahmed
Yeah, I feel like this is such a great question. And Bryce and Dr. Harris have expanded on it super well. But one thing I would like to add is that there is a very big need for us to Center Student Voices, because I feel like higher ed administration, it’s pretty overwhelmingly white across the board, and to people who are making the decisions, they don’t accurately represent the students who are actually experiencing these conditions that we’re talking about. You know, I feel like there’s so many, just multitudes of experiences when it comes to students. And I feel like there is a need to bring students to the table and treat them as the experts that they are, you know, I, I know, to two or three years ago, when I was in college, I was making 7.25 An hour working as a student worker. And that’s the federal minimum wage, and I was talking to a student last week, and they told me, that’s what they make now. And that’s not even enough to buy a meal on campus. So hiring leaders, they need to understand that the reality, the realities of students today are very are like they were always this way. As I said, they need to understand that students are they need help, and they need to be brought to the table. And they are experts in their experiences. I also feel like we need to expand the perception of basic needs. I feel like a lot of the times when people hear the word basic needs to think of food and housing I think mentioned before, digital access is a basic need. In this report, we found that, you know, an overwhelming amount of students who are indigenous don’t have access to Wi Fi or computer. And you know, in today’s world, especially in this pandemic era, where everything is increasingly digital, like how do you expect students to access zoom, or like their online homework or, you know, Canvas and Blackboard, when they don’t even have a stable Wi Fi or internet connection, like they’re literally not set up for success. And then mental health is another big one, as rising as Islamophobia is rising anti semitism. But anti blackness, like so many different isms are just intersecting with each other and making it so so hard on our students, and anxiety and depression. The rates of those two are so high in the mental health crisis is truly just bonkers. Right now, like you’re expecting students to deal with a pandemic and deal with high hate crimes and deal with the pressure of going to college while also juggling work, there is so much pressure on them. And I feel like they need to be brought to the table and their experiences need to be centered. And I feel like they need to be treated as equals to because a lot of the times like while we’re working in this space, there can be a tendency to speak over students or like regard ourselves as their like savior. So when in reality students are perfectly capable of supporting themselves, we just need to make sure that the system is better designed to support them. And

Bryce McKibben
I think we can just on Rjaa’s point really quickly to like, you know, listening to what the students are telling us through the data in should inform what the campuses are doing. I mean, the survey data showing very clearly that those who are struggling are saying yes, I’m experiencing basic needs insecurity. They’re not accessing campus supports, like less than a third, generally speaking of students who are saying I am not having enough to eat, I’m having trouble putting a roof over my head, or actually being able to read access anything to ameliorate those concerns. And so if our if we see racial equity gaps in the problem, we also need to make sure that the potential intervention of the thing we do to try to solve that problem is also targeted to the students who are most at risk of experiencing the problem to begin with. And so far, it kind of seems like mostly campus leaders aren’t thinking about that latter part in there can be sometimes a tendency to blame students to for their own problems. You know, I think in higher education, we often encounter the concept that while it’s stigma that is the roadblock that you know, students just don’t want to use the supports available or you know, they’re embarrassed that in the data actually show is not the most significant problem in that we shouldn’t be blaming students for their own problems, it’s actually that the supports and the resources are really hard to navigate. Or they come with, you know, just buckets of red tape. Or it’s complicated. I mean, the the most significant barriers are really informational, you know, I didn’t think I was eligible, or I didn’t know how to apply. So if we really look at what the information is telling us, it’s we need to make these resources simpler, easier to access, we need to be able to put them all in one place rather than having students to go from one office to the next to figure out where they’re, you know, Oh, this one deals with financial aid. This one deals with supports for housing This one deals with with food supports, put it in one place, put it in a in a in a public benefits hub, or a resource or, you know, a single point of contact, these types of obligations for campuses based on what the students are actually telling us in the data, I think is such an important next step for our leaders.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, and I think how do we shift from, hey, here’s our offices, here’s how we’re organized and teaching students how to navigate that, how do we get organized in a way that aligns with how students are navigating that college experience, particularly the students who are the most marginalized and most need, if we can organize around them, it’s going to work for others.

Frank Harris III
And if I get excellent points, you know, all three of you make, if I can add to that, like if if an institution knows a significant proportion of their student body is struggling, right, struggling financially, you know, struggling with basic needs insecurities? Well, in some ways, I think there’s some things that you can almost say sort of a universal design approach to this right? Is there an opportunity? Like, can we make parking free on campus? Do we really need to charge students to park right, Compton College, in the Los Angeles area of California, every student who attends there gets at least one free meal a day, right? Whether you’re you identify as a student with a basic needs insecurity or not. There are certain, I think there’s certain things that institutions can do, just as a matter of basic practice, and making it available to all their students that will kind of help to address some of these barriers and concerns that I think Bryce did a great job of, of sort out the red tape and the bureaucracy that gets in a way of accessing needed supports. And I know sometimes student institutions was like, well, we have to make sure that these resources go to these particular students, and we don’t want to, you know, slow to deploy them to everyone. Well, if, again, right, if you know, most of your students are struggling with this in one way or another, then What’s it matter if a few more students gets a free meal? Right? I mean, you know, I think it’s worth that’s a that’s, that’s an acceptable cost to make sure that the support is available for everyone that needs it, when they need it without a whole lot of hoops to jump through to actually get it.

Keith Edwards
Yeah. Great. We’ve talked about the findings from this research, really outlining the results of the systemic inequities. Talked about some advice for campus leaders and campus based institutional based things. Let’s talk about policies beyond the individual campus. Bryce, this is your wheelhouse, what? I can see you ready to go go? What should we be doing at a policy level beyond the individual student and the individual campus on a broader scale?

Bryce McKibben
Yeah, I mean, actually, it’s such a perfect segue from what Dr. Harris’s was talking about the importance of universal programs, you know, lowering barriers to entry. During the pandemic, we actually experimented in policy with universal programs. And it was a huge success, right? We’ve dramatically expanded the Child Tax Credit, we provided like $40 billion in emergency aid grants to students with very few strings attached not asking for them, you know, to performatively prove their poor 18 times, right, we, we actually expanded the social safety net in this country. And then we let it all expire at the end of the public health emergency. And these probe problems that we, you know, are documenting in this report. And you know, they they aren’t, they weren’t just happening during the pandemic, they were there before. And in many ways, they’re worse now, because of the cost increases of food and housing and gas and all of those things. So if you really want to think about like, what are the implications for federal policy, a good way to summon up would be maybe revive some of the programs that we had in place during the pandemic that were actually working and help them help students succeed in particular emergency aid. I’ll say that this is this is an area of focus for us, you know, for the first time ever, federal government invested in in emergency aid programs, every college in the country and it was open to You know, millions and millions of students instead of being, you know, one, you know, well meaning donor at an individual school or one’s you know, progressive state was willing to invest in that we have a comprehensive approach to making some funds available for things that come up when you’re just a human living your life, you know, a car breaks down or an unexpected medical bill, or you need emergency childcare, in order to get to class like the the things that can kind of cascade into bigger basic needs challenges, we could revive that emergency aid investment, either by putting some more money into it, or even making our existing financial aid program more flexible, got a report on how we could use the supplemental educational opportunity grant or SEMG, it’s about a billion dollars a year could be, could be used as emergency aid. That was during the pandemic, it sunsetted Why not revive it, no cost taxpayers. The other thing that we spend a lot of time on right now trying to bring this back to scale is, you know, a more comprehensive, proactive effort to connect students to public and tax benefits. You know, just we were talking a few minutes ago, the take up rate, the amount of students are actually using resources available to them is very low. And part because they are incredibly complicated. So let’s put in place the supports to make that less complex and actually help students navigate the process, helping identify those who are already eligible for something like the SNAP program and getting EBT benefits. WIC, TANF, Medicaid, the sort of long list of you know, federal alphabet soup acronyms, we could do a much better job actually connecting students at a policy level to those programs. And we’re seeing states kind of tried to do this in lieu of the federal government. But there is absolutely more of room to at the federal government sort of automate this and have a more comprehensive approach to students financial security, rather than just assuming that if they, you know, went and filled out the FAFSA or their financial aid form, that they suddenly have all the resources available to them, we just know that that’s not the case. So couple, you know, I think public benefits writ large and so broadly defined is, is going to be key to addressing some of the barriers students are facing.

Keith Edwards
I love that you included both policy change and things that were acquired or legislation. And that’s great, it can feel a little out of our locus of control, but also some things that campuses can do to connect students with existing things in their community at the state level, at the federal level, that maybe they’re available, but just aren’t connecting for a lot of the reasons that you pointed to Rjaa, what are you seeing? What are some of the implications beyond the campus context that you’d like to suggest?

Rjaa Ahmed
Yeah, for sure. I feel like Bryce touched on the public health crisis of COVID-19. I feel like you’re actually dealing with multiple public health crises. You know, transphobic, laws continued to get passed at the state level. So gender affirming care is not accessible for a lot of students. On a similar way in reproductive access, menstrual access, you know, a lot of the times we’ll see like a college will put like menstruation products and like the women’s restroom. But there can be students who managed to wait, we’re not women. So I feel like policymakers really need to support these efforts that are going on in intellectual campuses. Again, I’m not as ruptured in policy as prices. But I feel like I these like really disgusting transphobic laws and laws restricting reproductive access, keep getting past, policymakers need to step up and see where like, they can better support students because the like, it really is a public health crisis. And like a lot of these students, they’re dealing with intersecting crises. And, you know, it’s just a really hard time to be in college right now, considering just how much hatred has seeped into, like every sphere of life. So I would just say, you know, leaning on higher education leaders to see what support they need, as well as like higher education leaders lobbying for policy change, and really communicating what their students are facing.

Bryce McKibben
Yeah. I appreciate to that Rjaa mentioned the importance of reproductive justice in this context, like that’s another huge attack on on on racial equity, the Supreme Court’s ruling overturning Roe v. Wade, not just for the students who can get pregnant but also their family. I mean, we know that the, you know, the students who are most likely to need reproductive care are actually since they’re already parenting. And to be able to, you know, have to care for and potentially have an additional child and college could totally take an entire family off track of being able to attend higher education. There’s so many downstream applications, so it’s just You know, states like California and others that are there now mandating the access for for reproductive care on their campus, I think is one potential policy solution going forward? Yeah.

Keith Edwards
So many things pressing on us, right. This is this was sort of done in the time of COVID, in racial Reckoning and the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder here in Minneapolis where I am. And then we’ve added on at transphobic laws, we’ve added on di bands, we’ve added on it, Islamophobia and anti semitism, we’ve added on so many different things. There’s a lot to help students navigate, and then we’re navigating these realities as well. Right. It’s not just implications for college students. Frank, what would you offer, in addition for some of these policy implications?

Frank Harris III
Yeah, you know, a couple other things to consider, you know, some some states or some cities actually have rent control to, to kind of, you know, manage the, the cost of rent, so it doesn’t, you know, spike it at a rate that’s that’s unmanageable, I’d like to see us talk about tuition control as a country, I think just the cost of higher education is just continuing to increase at an alarming rate. And I think that there are some policy interventions around that, you know, are probably warranted, and then even related to that, just more transparency about the actual cost of attending an institution. So we know, a lot of our community colleges went to a sort of tuition free program for many students. And that that certainly helps, right, it helps expand access and provides access, but there’s all these other associated costs that are not accounted for, in that, right. So I think, you know, just just kind of having more transparency about, you know, tuition is free, but this is what it’s actually going to cost you. I think that will be important. I like to see us do some work around streamlining, you know, federal financial aid, right. FASFA is incredibly complicated, you know, to complete. So some is some legislation or some intervention that makes it easier for students to apply for and access federal aid, I think would be good, I think we still need to do more around increasing the Pell Grant, right, which when the Pell Grant wasn’t originally, you know, instituted, it was the whole idea was that it would cover the full cost for most students, right. And we know that only covers a fraction of the costs, because of some of that many of the things that we’ve been talking about. And then, you know, even things like dual enrollment, right. And so we think about dual enrollment or concurrent enrollment, as it’s called in some, in some cases, that’s that’s we don’t think about that. And implications for students who experience basic needs insecurities. But one thing we know is that if students can get a head start into taking college coursework, right, it can build your confidence, students can actually transition to college with some some coursework completed, you know, they have some momentum. And so that can help in some way sort of reduced the cost on the back end, as well. So just make sure that dual enrollment is available for all students, right, not just high achieving students that are identified by their counselor as being good candidates, not just that at high schools, where there’s, you know, a good relationship between the high school and a local community college, but just really making sure that it’s a resource that’s available for all students, I think, are some of the things that can really, you know, and collectively, you know, take in all the ideas and things that have been shared, that can really probably make a difference and making sure that higher education is accessible, and affordable for a broader range of students.

Keith Edwards
Go ahead, Bryce. I think you want to get one more in here. Before we move to wrapping up.

Bryce McKibben
I was sorry, I just wanted to I’m such a policy nerd. I just wanted to praise. I just want to pray that Dr. Harris bringing up the importance of like actually lowering the cost of college. Right. I mean, that’s the reason why students are experiencing disproportionate rates of basic needs and security is because they are also shouldering the cost of college. I mean, the rates of food insecurity among the student population are actually about three times higher than the population overall. And then, of course, we see the race and ethnicity gaps there. And so I mean, students are particularly burdened. And I worked on Capitol Hill for a long time in DC work for Senate Education Committee, I don’t need more, but I’m totally willing to point the finger back at sort of my, my former colleagues and not let Congress off the hook here. You know, we have a sort of a dysfunctional federal government at the moment, particularly a house of representatives that can’t really figure out a straightforward, but it is so important for Congress to figure out how they can rebalance a relationship in higher education financing with states to actually invest in something that brings down the overall cost curb and makes options, affordable students, you know, there was a proposal for a major investment in, in free community college and state financial aid in HBCUs. And MSI is across the country that didn’t make it through Congress late last year. But the next time there’s a moment for Congress to get his act together, that’s enormously important to be able to bring down the overall costs for students. We can’t keep doing the same thing. We’ve been doing funding the same programs and expect a different result.

Keith Edwards
Well, we are running out of time. So we’ll move to wrapping up, we always like to end asking this question. This podcast is Student Affairs NOW. So what are you pondering troubling thinking ideating? around now. And if you want to share where folks can connect with you, that would be great. Dr. Frank Harris III, what do you troubling now,

Frank Harris III
you know, this, this has been a good, good conversation. And I just see a need to really deepen the work that started in this report and really get a a more in depth on an even deeper understanding of how this issue is impacting students, students and families and communities. Best way to reach me, as you know, probably started with my website. That gets you to publications. You know, recent speeches, social media, and are those good things?

Keith Edwards
Awesome. Awesome. And as you pointed to the report is is lengthy, we’ve hit just barely the tip of the iceberg. Both include a link to it in the in the show notes. So So Thanks for pointing to that there’s a lot more to dig in here. A lot more depth than what we’ve been able to get to in this brief conversation Rjaa, what would you like to offer that you’re troubling now?

Rjaa Ahmed
Yeah, I feel like there’s just so much going on in the world. You know, I’m smiling about it. But there’s just like transphobia, homophobia, racism, and then Thanksgiving. I said it earlier, but I just hate this holiday. Like how we are just sugarcoating the fact that this country was voted on genocide. So a lot of things to think about a lot of things to do. But I feel like the fight is ongoing. And I’m glad that there are amazing activists and fighters amongst us who are willing to do the work, like Dr. Harrison, and yourself and so many people who would be listening to this. So that makes me happy. Best way to reach me is by email. It’s actually super easy. No one else has my name. So my email is rjaa@temple.edu. So if you have any questions, feel free to reach out any questions about publications. Any other questions? That is the best way to reach me?

Keith Edwards
How about your Bryce? What are you trouble? Yeah.

Bryce McKibben
You know, what’s really sticking with me is just how important is not to let the findings of this report or it’s even its way of analyzing the problem in basic needs to security as a one and done thing? You know, yes, we are. There’s this report is analyzing the Hope Center data in a given year, but hundreds of colleges are running student basic needs surveys, some states are doing it in a coordinated way. Each of them should be analyzing the race and ethnicity gaps among their students, and taking it on and seeing what it means for them. Hope Center does that with colleges directly help them sort of, you know, crack open their data and look at the gaps and implications. But you know, this really shouldn’t be happening every single day, and helping inform policy going forward to be able to understand disparate impacts here. You can reach me either on on Twitter, I’m never gonna call it anything else other than that, at BMcKibben or bryce.mckibben@temple.edu. I’m happy to be in conversation with everybody. And thanks for having us, Keith.

Keith Edwards
Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks to all of you for the good work around the report, and the research and sharing it and implications for policy and using it to leverage for some change. And for joining us on the conversation today. I think it’s really, really helpful. So thanks to all of you for your leadership. And thanks also to our sponsor of today’s episode Symplicity. Symplicity is the global leader in student services technology platforms, with state of the art technology that empowers institutions to make data driven decisions specific to their goals are to partner to the institutions Symplicity supports all aspects of student life, including but not limited to, Career Services and Development, Student Conduct and well being student success and accessibility services. To learn more, visit symplicity.com or connect with them on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Huge shout out to our producer Nat Ambrosey who does all the behind the scenes work to make us look and sound good. We love the support for these important conversations from our community. You can help us reach even more folks by subscribing to our PA suggest subscribing to our YouTube channel or subscribing to our weekly newsletter announcing each new episode and more. If you’re so inclined, you can leave us a five star review. I’m Keith Edwards. Thanks again to the fabulous guest today and to everyone who was watching and listening. Please make it a great week. Thanks all.

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