Heather Shea
Heather, welcome back to current campus context, a limited series from student affairs now the online learning community for those of us working in alongside and adjacent to higher education and student affairs, I’m your host, Heather, Shea and we were recording this episode at 5:11pm, Eastern Time on Thursday, March 27 as always, things might have changed by the time you listen this week, in our fourth episode, we are continuing our deep dive into the evolving landscape of higher ed current campus context is all about making sense of the moment we’re in. Each episode, we bring in two experts to break down the latest developments, what’s happening, why it matters, and how we can respond within our own spheres of influence. Our goal is to move beyond the headlines, providing context, perspective and actionable strategies to help you navigate these shifts. As part of this series, we have a rotating panel of five experts, so you will hear some familiar voices over the next several weeks, and you can learn more about all of our correspondence at studentaffairs now.com now, before we let you get into today’s conversation, I’m excited to introduce our expert correspondents today who will help us unpack the latest developments. First back again this week. Dr Felicia Commodore is an expert in leadership, governance and administrative practices in higher education, with a focus on HBCUs, Ms eyes and black women in leadership. She is an associate professor in education, education policy, organization and leadership at the University of Illinois. Urbana Champaign, welcome back, Felicia,

Felecia Commodore
thank you. Heather, glad to be back,

Heather Shea
and I am excited to introduce our fifth correspondent, Dr Dimitri l Morgan. Dr Morgan is an expert in institutional governance, campus climate, student activism and STEM education in higher ed. He is an associate professor of education at the University of Michigan. Welcome Dimitri.

Demetri L. Morgan
Great to finally be on and I’m really looking forward to our conversation today.

Heather Shea
So, am I so? Am I so? Let’s, let’s go to the news and see what we’re unpacking. Over the past several weeks, we have tracked several different stories. We’re going to pick up on some of those themes today. We’ve tracked the dismantling of the Department of Education, the weaponization of federal funding as key strategies being used by the Trump administration to reshape higher ed. This week, I have three major developments that kind of build on these themes. First, the student loan system is facing a radical overhaul. Trump is proposing to shift federal student loans to the Small Business Administration. This is alarming for me, not just because I think the SBA lacks the infrastructure to manage student aid, but for me, it also signals a shift away from education as a public good, treating students like entrepreneurs rather than learners. This raises for me, serious concerns about access, accountability and borrower protections. What would this mean for repayment terms? What about, you know, the income driven options for changing your your student loan status and even legal challenges? And I guess I’m just curious about the congressional approval that might be required for this kind of move at the end, I think the question remains, who will be hit hardest? And I know first gen and low income students, I think stand to lose the most. So that’s Story number one. Story two, the fight over Diversity, Equity and Inclusion continues to escalate, while the crackdown on campus free speech and academic freedom intensifies. I don’t know. I we were talking about this before we started recording. There’s just hypocrisy in this. This is staggering. Conservatives who once claimed to defend open debate are now pushing laws that restrict what faculty and students can say about race, gender and inclusion. Universities are being forced into impossible choices, balancing political pressure, financial survival and their core values. And some institutions seem to be retreating, and others may be positioning themselves for a longer fight after reading about Columbia’s response last Friday, I have to ask, are we with witnessing caution pregnant pragmatism? Pragmatism or concession, this isn’t just about policy. It’s an effort to reshape higher ed’s core values, and then finally, with universities under political and financial threat, our professional associations are emerging as higher ed’s last line of defense. It’s organizations representing faculty, AAUP and administrators ace, ace and APLU, as well as diversity officers, not a he, are leading lawsuits and advocacy efforts against these attacks. If individual institutions hesitate out of financial fear, will these associations be enough to hold the line. So these we this week’s developments reinforce this broader shift higher education is being forced into a defensive position on student aid, academic freedom and institutional autonomy. So the question is, who is willing to fight back? Let’s get into it. So Dimitri, given what I’ve just shared, where should we begin? What would you like to talk about? But should we unpack further?

Demetri L. Morgan
I think money, the loans and the SBA is always a good because I think that also is a bridge between kind of people’s own personal realities as as educators in higher ed, who you know, many of whom have also gone into grad school and might have taken out loans, both in undergrad and grad school, and then it also impacts the future of institutions. So I think that’s that’s a good place to start.

Heather Shea
All right. What about you, Felicia, where would you like to kind of start unpacking these stories today.

Felecia Commodore
I think that’s a good place to start. Also is looking at the the moving around of duties as we as there is an attempt to dismantle the Department of Ed were kind of because I think the way in which that has been handled points to some of the other things that we’re seeing and how the institutions are responding to certain things, how associations or different advocacy groups so they have to respond to certain things. I really feel you started to see the uptick in action one way or another. When that, that EO came out, that essentially started to dismantle, not not get rid of, but dismantle. That’s very two different things. The Department of Education, and I think that’s what we saw, a very significant uptick in action based on that, yeah.

Heather Shea
So correct me if I’m wrong, the appropriations for federal student aid are administered by Congress, right or not being administered. They’re appropriated by Congress, but then they are administered by the Department of Education. Can? Can somebody just like take that giant checkbook and give it to another i I’d love to hear what your thoughts are.

Demetri L. Morgan
Short answer is no, it, you know, from the Constitution, Congress has the power of the purse, so anything that is Treasury financial related for the federal government has to both be initiated and when changed, signed off by by Congress. And so what we’re seeing with the shift in the ministry in how the loans are being administered is part of, you know, a broader strategy from the federal administration to push on the boundaries of accepted norms and law and see, you know, essentially, what, what can, what can we get away with, or what can we do before other checks and balances are able to weigh in. And so I think that’s part of the calculation, that if we can move it to the SBA and get it to run well, however that is defined, then Congress can follow suit and just be like, Oh yeah, that’s a great place to put it, instead of it operating the proper way, which is, if Congress wanted to move it, that is something that they would need to add into the legislation. But that’s much more risky with the slower margins in the house and really trying to think about the political theater that’s going to be needed. Because I think even if you believe that student loans moving forward should be radically different, you still have millions of borrowers who have a relationship with the Department of Education who are going to be impacted by how this is done. And those constituents don’t just, you know, live in certain places. They live everywhere. And so that’s much harder of a calculation that I think the administration is trying to get ahead of and say, like, look, we can make it work here, instead of doing it the harder way through Congress.

Felecia Commodore
Yeah, yeah. And. I would like to add on to that, so a short yes and then a yes and, and I think that my colleague here is being very gracious to the federal administration in that, assuming there was a strategy here, from my perspective, there was an attempt to dismantle all the functions of the department. Ed, we’re not actually understanding what the department that does. And so when, when those pronouncements were made, there was pushback. And the pushback was on, what? What about loans? What about Pell Grants? What about and so then we saw a very intentional response, like, Oh no, we’re not messing with those things, right? And then it was like, we gotta figure out what to do with those things, because those are the things that people are pushing back on. And so it was like, Oh, we’re gonna move here. Because if we look back prior to the election, the conversation was moving all the student loan stuff to the Treasury, yeah, yeah, that was what was said. Then, right now, we’re moving it to SBA. And to me, there was never an intention for SBA to take those things on, because you cut the SBA in hand right by workforce. So you never intended for these folks to do this. So Right? So to me, there’s also a lot of To the Point of pushing boundaries, of not just checks and balances, but also figuring out how much we can do before we get pushback, and then figuring out what we get pushback on, and let that push back direct us onto what is the next strategy that we’re going to do? So people will like, let us do what we want to do. And so I actually think there wasn’t a there wasn’t a strategy at all around what to do with these things. And so it was like, Oh, that makes sense. SBA, but you still don’t have enough workforce. And pointing to not really knowing what happens through the administration of these things is that there are very intentional, specific things and processes that you have to do to administer student loans and Pell grants and these things that SBA workforce are not trained on, so they’re not even equipped, many of them, to process all of this stuff. So it’s just going to cause a really problematic backlog, I think, yeah,

Heather Shea
and I was thinking about it, I kind of mentioned this in my recap about just treating students like businesses, right? So then, does it become a we’re not going to give you a loan if you’re going to pursue a degree in the humanities, right? And then, because you’re not going to be a good investment if you can’t get a job or whatever the perspective is, right? Like, I could see a whole slew of other repercussions.

Demetri L. Morgan
I think it’s a really important point, just to double click on, as some of my students say, in that, you know, I’ve been trying to take seriously the and maybe too much. So a fair, fair point. But the new Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Besson, you know, I said very clearly in multiple public remarks that the Treasury’s goal, at least, is to help reprivatize The the economy that it had gotten, you know, too public oriented. And so I think your point, Heather is like, absolutely part of maybe not the strategy. Maybe that’s too generous. But how do we reprivatize things that, you know, some feel have become too public oriented and is shifting it to small business? Does that help us, you know, make this argument that now we should be able to weigh in on who, on what you major in, because you’re not a good investment. And you know, this is a private, you know, sort of investable vehicle. And you know, also, prior to this, a big, you know, conversation was on income share agreements. And basically, you know, a sort of conservative solution had been, you know, saying, Hey, let, let a private investor who has a portfolio in gold, the stock markets bonds, also invest in, you know, X amount of students, and, you know, take a percentage of their future earnings, because it, you know, frees up the federal government having support. And now I’m like that, you know, those sorts of ideas are definitely in play, likely, because it, you know, helps privatize the sort of educational industry. But I think the downstream impact of like, do, what will I have choice and what I choose to major in, or what type of institution I want to go to, becomes a central question that is won’t be answered in any of these movements.

Felecia Commodore
Yeah, and we, we already know. I know. I’ve become like the history buff all of a sudden, which is not my field and blue study, but we saw before what happened when we put too much of the loan system in private service providers hands. I mean, we had predatory lending. We are. Um, had predatory promissory notes to the point where people had to get sued, right? Institutions had to give money to students because of some of the unethical things they’re doing. So I definitely think there are lots of alarm bells to go off, but I do think I do agree. Dimitri and what you had there like this is, this is, you can see the direct path to the privatization of the loan process,

Heather Shea
yeah. And I think this is, you know, this is really related as well, to concepts of academic freedom. So one of the things that Columbia agreed to in their like, the list of demands that they were given. I don’t remember what it was exactly called, right? But one of them was about putting an academic department into receivership. Like, what? What is that? I mean to me, that seems like a pretty direct infringement and and what? What could they what else could Columbia have done. I that’s the other part. I feel like there’s, like an impossible choice here, but like, talk about government infiltration into what is being taught. We’re now going to put this program anyway. Love to hear what your thoughts are on that part, too.

Felecia Commodore
I’ll jump in. Um, the academic receivership was, I mean, it that one made my eyes open, um, really wide one, because whenever you have a term come up that we haven’t used in decades, or we don’t use regularly, it scares me like, whoa. What like, and I have met people texting me like, What in the world is an academic receivership. I do think it’s concerning to think that a department gets put in the hands. And it was, it was very vague, right? It didn’t say, Ooh, the department’s hands are being connected. But I think we can all see, even if it’s not, it being a short line or open door to government control, being able to control departments, which is very problematic, but I think there’s a conversation that’s not being had in this area. Is really who’s making that decision? Was it? Was it just a list of demands that the institutional leadership decided to go with? Was this a conversation from the board I have, I feel like we’re not having enough conversation about if some of these things were already in play, or discussions that were happening at the board level, right, having problems with programs, or being concerned about oversight and things this nature that in traditional or, quote, normal, whatever that is, times wouldn’t really go further than a discussion in the boardroom. But this this demands from the administration. Federal Administration opened the door for conversations that were already happening in private spaces, to get some girth under there some power. And so I really, I really want us to wrestle with if all of this is just meeting the demands of the Federal Administration, or if the moment is creating an opportunity for conversations that were already happening.

Heather Shea
Well, right before this episode went to record, Dr Morgan, I knew it was gonna, it was gonna have to come up, but I think you know, you all are experts in governance, and I’d love to hear in any insights. But right before we went on the air, the president of the University of Michigan sent out a notice to the campus. So I’ll let you take it from there.

Demetri L. Morgan
The really important connection and point that Dr Conroy is bringing up in how a lot of these organizational sagas, The fancy term we use it. But the these, these narratives, these happenings that are happening on campus have, you know, just like any good story have, or bad story, or, you know, or horror story, there’s, there’s a big, there’s a beginning of climax and, like, sort of resolution. And, you know, we’re seeing a lot of the sort of climatic, you know, making up decisions, but there’s been build ups. And I think that the Michigan, University of Michigan as sort of a case study to that, you know, I’m newly at University of Michigan. I got there, and I sort of think all the time I try to explain it’s like the sort of meme of the person, like, walking into the room on fire with the pizza like, that’s how University of Michigan. It’s like, I’m happy to be here, and it’s like everything is burning down. But there was a board meeting in December where there was rumors that they were dismantling the diversity, equity, inclusion apparatus throughout the university. In Michigan, and faculty, staff and students rallied community members as well. Rallied and and almost now, like, I’m gonna go find it, but almost cringe worthy, wise the Regents at that meeting, sort of like, we’re like, oh, where’s all this innuendo coming from? Like we’re not, you know, touching. We’re seeing Putin. And in fact, they announced the the establishment of a expanded gold, blue guarantee. And they were like, you know, we were not touching this, but there was still all this rumors and chatter that things were happening. And so now then to get this email today where the President fleshed out a little bit of some of the ongoings of of this kind of systematic review and all. None of that came up at this, at this meeting, but there were things happening in the in the background. And then, you know, in the email the president, you know, kind of listed out a lot of the federal dynamics that their colleague letter, you know, things that have been covered on this podcast, as you know, some of the things that they were being responsive to. But it’s like, and also, you’ve been, you know, analyzing the this investment for, you know, in your own admission for a really long time, and this is sort of just heightened it and, and I think it’s a really tragic case of, you know, us, you know, pointing to some of these things, but also not acknowledging that the board has, you know, the some of the board members were publicly out on, you know, on cable news talking about this. They were giving comment to the New York Times piece that can’t hit piece that came out in the fall. So there were lots of things, when you look back in retrospective, where, like, oh yeah, this was just kind of like a systematic dismantling. And so a lot of people will see the news today and just point to this kind of like, you know, spur the moment decision. But actually, it’s been in, you know, it’s everything that definitely said, and that is also likely happening in different ways at institutions where, you know, listeners are at and it’s trying to pick up on those, those tea leaves, pick up on the chatter and believing it, but also trying to verify it, but also recognizing that people, especially in this type of climate, aren’t trying to make up things in bad faith, but they’re hearing things, they’re seeing things, and there’s a lot of credence to especially when it comes to kind of unraveling the Diversity Equity and Inclusion infrastructure.

Heather Shea
Yeah, Dr Commodore, before we, before you joined us, actually, Dimitri, we were saying this that just happened, like, what’s happening on my campus, right? And you were saying your campus has a new website, right? So, yeah, our listeners, that might be useful,

Felecia Commodore
yeah. So we, we have gotten, we get pretty regular communication from our chancellor and our provost, and our campus has created a website specifically for federal updates, so you can go to that website at any time and see what’s the new What’s the new update, what the campus is doing, ask questions. And so it’s been, I do think it’s been really helpful. I mean, it hasn’t stopped all of the, you know, Whiplash, but I think has taken some of the angst out of waiting to see what the system is going to say, or waiting the chancellor is going to say. And you can just say, you know when, when I see the Michigan news, so I will What is? What is Illinois doing? I can just go to our website and look, but so I think that’s been helpful, because it’s just it’s so constant. And I think for those of us who are working at institutions, students at institutions or connected to institutions in one way or another. It’s hard sometimes to so much information, and so being able to funnel that messaging and that information in a way that is consumable, sorry for the missing background, can help bring a little less thanks to to what you’re doing, which I think is necessary for us to sustain what we’re going through. Yeah,

Demetri L. Morgan
one, one quick question I would love for both of you not trying to take your job. Heather, you’re doing great, but I just love your thoughts on this, because you both are experts in this space, and it’s something I’ve been turning around since the Columbia letter on Friday, is, you know, how, in a lot of not just the diversity, equity and inclusion scholarship that we’ve seen, but this critiques, whether it be Women’s Center of like, institutions are performative, right? Like in the DI space like that, there was a sort of critique from, you know, quote, unquote, inside the house. How performative Do you think some of these moves by by Columbia or Michigan are right like, so there’s absolutely real impacts. You know, people’s jobs are on the line. You know, they’re there. They were clear. The office is being shut down. The dei plans is discontinued. You know. We Columbia had a whole list of things that they were doing. But what is like the theater and the performative? Or is there, or is this different, like, and that’s been something I’ve been turning around of like, yeah, institutions four years ago, five years ago, made tons of pronouncements, and only a smattering of them came true. And so is this the same, or is this different? Is the political climate that different that they can’t be performative anymore? They actually have to follow through. They actually have to, you know, do the things I don’t know, I’m curious, like what you all see as people who saw that trajectory, knew the pronouncements, saw the demand students made, you know, just four or five years ago, and you know, lots of them were called out for being performative. Is is there that similar dynamic?

Heather Shea
Felicia, I’ll let you.

Felecia Commodore
You gotta let me take this one first. Um so Dimitri knows this. I truly believe in theater being an integral part of how organizations work, particularly higher education organizations, or any organization that has a political aspect. So I do think there is some theater involved, but I’m going to stick with a theater kind of metaphor here, so everybody try and roll with me. Hopefully it follows. Even though theater is is often performative. There can be performances that have lasting impact, that can shift culture, that can invite us and inspire us to live up to our values and actually latch on to things that’s a good a good performance, a useful performance. Does that right? So I think it’s less about are, are these institutions being performative, but it’s performative To what end? Right? The second part of that metaphor, I will say, and I know I’m glad to be my history bag again, there is a phenomenon in theater, particularly as Broadway. I’m a theater kid. We call revivals, right? So really good performances, or really good musicals or plays often come back in 10 years, in 15 years, and they have a we do a revival version of it, right, where we still keep the core of it and we tweak a few things, so that it speaks even more to the time, or even brings out more of the artistry or the interpretation of that piece while maintaining its integrity. That is at the core of it. I think higher ed does that often. I think we have revival moments in higher ed and like what we’re seeing now is yet to be determined, but I think we will either find out that this is performative to no end, or there’s a there’s performative to an end to have a purpose and to bring about a revival of performances that had impact on us in the past. Right? And we see, we’ve seen movements happen that at their at the surface, just look like student protests, yeah, or, you know, you know, a sit in somewhere or, or, or a policy that was randomly made, right, or department that was just created. But those things had long, lasting impacts that changed higher ed as we know it. They changed society as it, we know it, right? And so I think the question, or what I would say, is that it’s yet to be seen, but I think even good performances can lead to impact, and higher ed is due for revival of some of its greatest performances.

Heather Shea
Yeah, I think that’s, I think that’s a great, a great point, and I think part of it is the the audience, right? Like, what are students asking for, and what do students benefit? And how, how are we hearing from them? I mean, this is about the stories, right? And the ways in which their engagement in the campus space has that lasting impact as well, right? So there’s, there’s an interesting study there, when you think about, you know, how you’ve lived through these different social movements, and how act student activism has has shifted, and Dimitri knows this a little bit because of the demand list of demands that Michigan State has worked through over the past several years. And you know, I think performativity is really it. It might feel performative for some who’ve maybe seen it a couple times, but for some students like, this is the first time they’ve ever had this, you know, engagement with the thing, whatever it is, right? Like I could, I could continue your theater metaphor, because I studied, my dissertation was an analysis of the theater performance as a part of a student activism. But I, I keep going back to like. For some of the students, that piece was so incredibly moving, and so that, I guess, you know, kind of shifting into the what can we do from a student affairs perspective? And I’m really curious about, like, how do we help keep student hope alive during this moment, keeping them engaged. I mean, we were just noticing around my office it feels like student engagement is is down. And then what are the things that we can help, kind of as, like, the secret decoder ring, help them make sense of this moment that we’re in, either grad students undergrad, right? I’d love to hear your thoughts on kind of like, how do we, how do we take this and and and work with our students around the moment?

Demetri L. Morgan
This is great one. Thank you both, and not a theater person I was able to follow. So, good job. Yeah, it’s a great question. Dasha, one of the things I think is really important in times of, you know, sort of transition or or grief, is being in community and just holding space with, not with an agenda, not with, like, a this, you know, we’re going to train you on this, just like, what, what is an atmosphere, you know, what? What do we need to talk about? What are, what are on people’s minds? Because just, you know, sort of showing up and being allowed to emote, being allowed to listen, but sort of being in proximity, even like this, you know, like even you know, is really important. And I think people you know are looking for spaces and outlets to just show up and to think and talk and so in the ways that you know, particularly Student Affairs, professionals are good at just holding space and being present and affirming people like that just has to be an ongoing tool that we open up even, you know, sort of, it doesn’t even have to be extra spaces. There’s gonna be like, Hey, we were, you know, doing this program anyways. Let’s come 15 or 15 minutes early and check in. Let’s stay for 15 minutes after and just, just check in. I want to, you know, before we go do X, I want to just, you know, see how everybody’s doing. So that’s one tangible one. And then the other thing I’ve been thinking a lot about is, you know, where are the spaces to, like, ask, the kind of like, I just tried to model, like, I’ve been turning that over in my head since Friday, and both of you yours perspectives. Like it was like, I was like, Oh, this felt like an itch that just got scratched. Like, and so where are the spaces where we can sort of ask the not fully formed question that we see something, and we just need to ask someone. And you know, you all thankfully have really great answers, but it just felt good to ask it, and then also be, you know, you know, receive a really good answer. And so I also think about, like the question, to your point. Dr, Shea, like the question forming, especially if this is your first time, like, experiencing like that is also a process. Like, I might not have, like, a really, you know, quote, unquote, articulate question. I just know I’m feeling things. I know I want to be able to, like, put things together. And how do I, you know, even get some space to like form the question and normalizing that being like, yeah, like, I just had a question and tried to frame the best I couldn’t you all picked it up. And so I think that too, of like acknowledging that being able to ask or say or, you know, articulate what it is is going on is a process in and of itself, and we have to open up spaces for that laboratory of trying out that language or making those connections, and that it doesn’t always happen neatly in just like one like processing space. What about you?

Felecia Commodore
Yeah, I mean a lot of like, retweet, well, maybe not retweet. Re blue skiing, Skeets, I don’t know if they’re called. Like, yes. Like, there we go. What denucci said, I think also, like, I remember, I think particularly with grad students. But I think this could translate to undergraduate students as well. But I think if we one look at students as holistic, right? Like these. They’re not just students like they hold multiple identities and realities. And I think just giving students space or empowerment to know that their their feelings and their processing is data like it is knowledge. There is knowledge within what they’re feeling and what they’re experiencing, and what I hope to do as a faculty member is give them a place to make sense of that knowledge and use that knowledge in conjunction with what we know. Research and other kind of more traditional ways of knowledge to to not just make sense of the world that they’re experiencing, but to ignite them to be imaginative of the world they can make right. And I think, you know, there was a season in higher ed, and you see me about to roll my eyes, where we were reimagining everything. We were re reimagining this, reimagine that, we reimagine all these, and then it went away, right? And I think part of that was reality set in, and our imaginations went away right and and what I hope to do is say this is reality, right? In very ways that I’ve been at a conference, that they were talking about this, ways that senior scholars did for me and my faculty members, to me, this is reality, and I want you to be truthful about what reality is. But your reality doesn’t have to be permanent, right? There is there. You have the ability, the opportunity, the resources, to build a world that is the reality you want to be. But take this information that you’re processing, what you’re experiencing now as knowledge, and the opportunity of the knowledge you’re getting to decide whether you want this to be reality, or you want to build a new reality, and what I hope we as faculty, as student affairs professionals, as administrators and leaders, that we are creating spaces and support systems and support structures who facilitate world building, And so that when we look back, we can say, Wow, we we created paths for them to to take all of that experience and make this whole thing better, and for it to continue to exist in ways we never saw.

Heather Shea
Yeah, that, that I love, that it’s a super hopeful vision of the future, and I, I have also long,

Felecia Commodore
which isn’t normal for me, by the way, I’m a cynic by nature, so everyone should hang on to this. It’s about much hope you’re everyone get from

Heather Shea
the moment to tag, right? Yeah, I’ve, I’ve long said to students, you know, who always like, well, I didn’t want to ask a question because I didn’t know how to say it, or I didn’t want it to come out like, you know, I was gonna say it. And I’m like, your self censoring is keeping your ideas from entering this world. And I’d rather you, you know, provide an imperfect, you know, comment or or belief then you just sit back. Because often when we sit back, somebody else does it, right? And then we’re like, Oh, right. So like, let’s just put some and that world building idea, I think, is really valuable. So we’re at final thoughts. We’re definitely not getting this episode in under a half an hour today. It’s all right, good. But I am really curious about what you all see on the horizon, what’s keeping you up at night, and what’s bringing you joy? You can answer all three. You can focus on one, whichever, whichever of you would like to go first.

Demetri L. Morgan
So one of the things that I am been thinking about, I’ve been tracking bills coming that have been filed in Congress, because at some point you, like, you can do all of the optics of executive order, but like, it’s at some point Congress has to, like, do its job and to Dr Coronavirus point earlier, you know, literally, like, I can give the bill and post it in show notes. There’s been a bill introduced for the dismantling, but in, even in that bill that was introduced in in February, it said that the homes were supposed to go to to the Treasury, you know, like probably 2025, said, so they’re not even, even if this bill was devoted on and passed like they’re already out of compliance. So, but I do think that it’s coming to a head. All that to say it’s coming to a head that Congress and the courts are gonna, you know, eventually start to weigh in and and so, you know, quite frankly, it’s going to get worse before it gets better in whatever better is, because the silence and absence of the other two checks in in this system is we’re sort of in, we’re just in the thick of that and so, but on the horizon is that those two entities have to start, You know, sort of playing ball, negotiating, you know, ruling. And it will, it will create a different set of predicaments to respond to, but it won’t be, you know, just, just the executive sort of laying, you know, laying claim to to all the air. So that’s on the horizon. I’m trying to understand what Congress is doing, trying to brush up on the Supreme Court. Forward and understanding how they’re, you know, dealing with emergency injunctions and different things, because the other checks are coming, but it’s just not as quickly as we as we want. The thing that is, you know, kind of bringing me joy like my I should have grabbed it, but my seven year old, you know, I’ve been talking about this all day, and it’s spring break, and so my seven year old was in the office, and she wrote a poem, and one line that was was in it is that, you know, we all deserve kindness. We all deserve, you know, to receive kindness. And it just, you know, both broke my heart that she had to listen to me like yell about, you know, all these things all day in the office, but that, you know, we’re It doesn’t always have like these things that we’re going through are like, taught and trained, and it’s, you know, what we what we convey, but we also can instill, not only in, you know, our young ones, but also in the students and our colleagues. Like that kindness, like still matters. And I know that that’s great, but it just brought me joy that, like, you know, hopefully my little one is like seeing that I even in the midst of this, I’m trying to center kindness and for that to show up in the poem, just brought me a lot of joy. Yeah, so I will pause there, but yeah, that those are the two things that are kind of on my radar. Thank you. Thank you.

Felecia Commodore
Yeah, I think similarly, what’s keeping me up at night is really the legislative process. I think I’ve been trying to keep track of what’s going on in Congress so much, but also I’ve been become very, very concerned about state legislatures, where particularly for higher ed, I will continue to say this like that is where we will be hit the most. And I just don’t think we’re talking about it enough. We’re talking a lot about the department Ed. And I’m not trying to trivialize loan stuff and all that, but state appropriations, state policies, all of these things that could get codified at the state level. You must pay attention to that. And I just feel like it’s getting lost in conversation. We’re seeing states flatten. We’ve already been seeing states defund higher ed for years now, they’re flattening funding. They’re getting inspiration from what’s happening at the federal level to codify some of this dismantling of Dei, trying to control curriculum into state legislation and connecting it to state appropriations. And I, I, I mean, I have really been concerned that we’re going to look up in state sessions have ended, and all kinds of stuff is going to get codified, and we weren’t prepared because we weren’t paying attention to it. So So that’s what’s keeping me up at night. But I will say what is giving me joy is that I I’ve seen the kind of a reinvigoration of higher ed scholarship and and us really thinking about who we want to be, what our values are. Um, for better or for worse, we’re at least thinking about it in ways that I don’t know that are not just performative. Um, I think we really are making some decisions that will history will tell us where we landed, and that’s kind of given me hope, because I think we’ve become kind of complacent as a field or comfortable, and so does his spark in us. So I’m kind of that brings me joy, and also that the days are getting longer and the sun is up longer. I just, I, you know, this is my first year in the Midwest, and I am just happy to see the sun and not snow every

Heather Shea
morning, gray winters, so,

Felecia Commodore
and not to sound cheesy, but it is a reminder that although climate change is real, contrary to popular belief, seasons still exist. And with that means that Seasons come and seasons go, and so I’m keeping that in mind, just figuring out how we persevere through this season. Yeah,

Heather Shea
yeah. Somebody said the other day, gosh, 2025 has been a long year. I’m like, That is a good way to kind of think about it, and I agree the sun is definitely on the horizon. Hopefully it’s going to move its way up in the sky really soon. So Well, before we wrap, I just want to thank you both so much for your time and for your insights, your wisdom. I have found over the past four weeks these conversation to be really critical, and I’m really looking forward to continuing next week. We want you to catch up on past episodes. If you’ve missed any of the previous. These episodes, you can get them at Student Affairs now.com/current-campus-context,

and I just want to also send a special thanks to the entire student affairs now team. We meet every Thursday, and today’s conversation was really generative. So thank you to Keith and Glenn and Rochelle for continually shaping this series I read is shifting fast, and we are hearing from you that these discussions are mattering. Keep the conversation going. You can share this episode, post your takeaways, tag us on Instagram, Facebook or blue sky, and we would love to hear from you at host at Student Affairs now.com and then finally, I’m going to give a little pitch. If you believe there is value to these conversations and you want to help sustain current campus context, we are looking for a sponsor to support this work. So if you know of an organization that’s interested in partnering, please reach out to us at host at Student Affairs now.com thanks for tuning in to current campus context brought to you by Student Affairs now we’ll see you next week. You.

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