Aja Holmes
Yeah, I think that’s one of those ways that, I think we’re missing sometimes the mark when it comes to, you know, the high impact practices that we’re trying to have our undergraduates, kind of connect with.

And I think mentoring is one of those aspects that I really think that we need to look at. How do we collectively do that? And with working with the different living learning communities that I have been a part of, and ways that we have kind of continued to keep. Upper class students engaged in and also providing that support back to our first year students.

It, it comes through mentoring, it comes through, putting together, you know, a small group of folks where you are mentoring together and you’re kind of moving through. And when you look at, you mentioned the cohort style and moving together as a cohort, uh, as you have that automatically built in community, automatically built in that collection of folks who are coming together to kind of do the same thing and matriculate and move through things, as well.

Heather Shea: Welcome to Student Affairs Now, the Online Learning Community for Student Affairs Educators.

I’m your host, Heather Shea. Today we’re talking about mentoring and community driven solutions, how mentoring sustains individuals and transforms communities. We’ll explore how mentorship can be both a deeply personal act of care and a collective strategy for driving change in higher education. Our guest today all appeared on a panel at the a CPA Ash Presidential Symposium.

As I was listening that day, I thought, oh my gosh, this absolutely needs to be an episode. And so I’m thrilled that we have one of the conveners at the event who created the content. That everybody participated in Dr. Jonathan McElderry. And Jonathan is our current ACPA President joining the panel.

So each of these guests have lived this work. They have lived it as mentors, mentees, scholars, community builders, and today we’re gonna reflect on how identity and positionality shape mentoring, how culturally responsive practices create more inclusive relationships, and how community partnerships expand, reach and impact.

Student Affairs NOW is a premier podcast and learning community for thousands of us who work in alongside or adjacent to higher education and student affairs. For the past five years, we’ve been creating space for meaningful conversations that inform, inspire, and affirm the work of educators everywhere.

We are so grateful to our listeners, guests, and collaborators who have helped this community grow and evolve, and we hope you find these contributions continue to make a contribution to the field and are restorative to the profession. New episodes drop every week on Wednesdays, and you can find us@studentaffairsnow.com, on YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

This episode is sponsored by the Evolve Institute for Higher Education leadership, courageous leadership, to reimagine the future of higher education. We deeply appreciate their support. As I mentioned, I am your host for today’s episode, Heather Shea. My pronouns are she, her and her, and I am broadcasting from the ancestral, traditional, and contemporary lands of the VE three fires, Confederacy of Ojibwe, Ottawa, and Potawatomi Peoples otherwise known as East Lansing, Michigan, home of Michigan State University where I work.

So we’re gonna start our conversation today with some brief introductions. I’d love each of you to share your name, title, and then, and organization, and then tell us briefly about a mentoring experience, either as a mentor or a mentee that has shaped how you think about community care or transformation.

And Aja, we’re gonna start with you.

Aja Holmes: Hello. Thanks again for having me on. My name is Aja Holmes and my pronouns are she, her and sis, and I come to you from the Ram Lon ancestral lands here at the University of San Francisco. I am the assistant Dean of students and director of Community living here. And I’ve been here for about five years.

And a mentoring experience that really stands out for me is I. Participated in being a part of a mentor program, I think for a leadership academy a couple of years ago, and was invited to come back to do it again. And one of the first ones that I mentored in that group contacted me a couple years later and thanked me for being a sounding board and optioned to bounce things off on and also to a fresh perspective.

And that was something that is like a byproduct of when you’re being part of a mentoring program is you’re able to be there for the person because you’re not at that. Where their work or at their job and you’re able to be that fresh perspective and give them a different point of view on some things in terms of how to look at stuff.

And so that’s one of the things I think that is pretty has been profound for me, is being able to be that sounding board for folks who I am mentoring.

Heather Shea: Thanks Aja. Thanks for coming back. Actually, I think this is maybe round three or four for you.

Aja Holmes: Absolutely.

Heather Shea: That’s why she has the mug. Alright.

Welcome Johnnie to the podcast.

Johnnie Allen, Jr.: Yes. Good afternoon or wherever you’re listening. Thank you again for the invitation to be here. I hope I can get one of those cool mugs as well too at the end of this opportunity. My name is Johnnie Allen, Jr. I’m currently a fourth year doctoral candidate in the higher education program at Florida State University where I work at the Leadership Learning Research Center as an instructor and advisor for our undergraduate leadership and certificate studies program.

Here at Florida State the university is located on the indigenous lands of the Appalachian Nation. The Muskogee Creek Nation, the Miccosukee Tribe of Florida, and the Seminole Tribe of Florida. So that is where I am coming from today. As I think about other work that I do when I think about one of my earlier mentoring experiences, I have to go back to my undergraduate experience at Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana.

Where I participated in a program called the Neil Marshall leadership Academy. And so it was brand new in fall of 2016. And so that is when I started my undergraduate degree. And I wanted to participate in a program that was specifically catered to black students and thinking about navigating the college campus.

And so the Neil Marshall created this program to engage in various like mentoring activities leadership development. And just being able to connect with my peers and stage ahead mentors on campus. And so I really think about that experience as shaping how I view mentoring and also mentorship altogether as both a receiver and provider of mentorship.

Heather Shea: I love it. Thank you so much for sharing about that. And we have a mutual friend also with Judy who works at iu. So shout out to Kathy Adams ster.

Judy Marquez Kiyama: Oh, yay.

Heather Shea: Yes, we’re gonna. Go ahead. Judy, I just

Judy Marquez Kiyama: think Kathy, Heather and I all got to work together in our early student affairs days,

Heather Shea: and now we’re spread all over everywhere and I got

Johnnie Allen, Jr.: to work with Kathy as an undergraduate student, so I think that is just a full circle moment as well too.

Heather Shea: I love it. Judy, welcome to the podcast. Tell us a little bit about you.

Judy Marquez Kiyama: I’m so grateful to be back with all of you again. And Heather, thank you for pulling us back together and inviting us to be part of this. My name is Judy Marque Kma. I use, she her pronouns. I am a professor of higher education in the Department of Educational Policy Studies and Practice.

It’s a mouthful at the University of Arizona. And the University of Arizona is in Tucson and Tucson sits. In the traditional homelands of the Pascal, Yaki, and the Nations. As I think about, and I shared this story a couple of times now as I think about my mentoring experiences I go back to, my time with Luis Mo. And Luis was the person who, one of the people who was known to bring funds of knowledge as a framework, as a pedagogy into higher education. And the education spaces and funds of knowledge honors our cultural histories and our cultural knowledges that we and our children bring into education.

And I. Had an opportunity to write about it. Be Louis passed about a year and a half ago, and there’s a big group of scholars around the world who use funds of knowledge and they’ve put together this special issue in studies in psychology. And so we, a couple of us Luis Sindo Garcia and I have written about.

Luis Mall. Lots of Luis’s as a human bridge, right? So when I think about mentoring, I think about that notion of bridging and the connections that people can create for us and with us when we don’t even know what’s possible yet. And so if we have time, I’ll read you the short like excerpt that I wrote for the special issue.

But he embodied all of that. He embodied funds of knowledge. He embodied honoring our cultural histories and our assets, and he embodied the possibilities of bridging for others and has done that continuously throughout my entire career.

Heather Shea: Oh my gosh. We will definitely put a link to that piece in our show notes so folks can find it on their library websites and access it. All right. Last but not least, Jonathan Aldry, thank you for joining today.

Jonathan A. McElderry: For having me, I’m glad to be back. I’m Jonathan McGary. I use he, him pronouns. I have the privilege of serving as the Dean of Student Inclusive Excellence and an assistant professor at Elon University which is located on the ancestral homelands of the Oki Band of the Pon Nation.

Additionally I have the. Privilege as well to serve as the 86th president of A CPA College Student Educators International, and so happy to be here. When I think about a mentoring story it goes back to being a graduate student and attending a CPA. When I became a part of the Pan-African Network directorate some of the past chairs and back then.

We used to call ’em the old heads and I guess now I’m officially an old head. But they were committed to our professional growth and so they understood that we were there to be on the directorate and to serve the association, but took the time to teach us how to write program proposals and set us down and said, this is how you write a program proposal that will get accepted and went through each of the elements.

And that’s something for me that. One has skyrocketed my career ’cause I’ve been able to present all over the place. Which is really exciting. But I think also it’s been an opportunity to then pass that knowledge down to the next generation. And so I’m just always reflective when I think about mentoring experience and higher education of them.

Just understanding that we were there to work, but also seeing that they needed to plant that seed within us for us to grow as professionals and professionally.

Heather Shea: I am gonna bring everybody on the screen. Thank you so much, Jonathan. I’m gonna stay with you for a moment. As I mentioned it in the intro, you were able to facilitate this conversation, but we didn’t hear as much about your own thoughts.

So I’d love to hear how this came to be, how this panel came to be, and then how you see mentoring as both personal, as a active care, as well as a collective strategy for driving change.

Jonathan A. McElderry: Perfect. So I would say when we were brainstorming some of the topics mentoring is probably one of the primary efforts during my presidency that I wanted to focus on.

And so understanding that I’m in this seat and being able to serve in this position because of the mentors and the folks that came before me. And so throughout my presidency we have various initiatives. Some, focus on some faculty and practitioners and grad students writing about equity driven mentoring.

We have an about campus that’ll be coming out that kind of centers some of the practices happening across campus. And then we’ve also done a fundraiser for a local high school in Baltimore, where our conference will be in March. So if you have not registered. Please sign up to do thank you so much.

Thank gosh, I appreciate that. I would say for me, when I think about mentoring as both personal and collective one, I think it starts with critical care. So I think it’s recognizing folks, humanity, that they are one, a human being and that they exist. But I think when we do it collectively, it helps us to shift systems and move things forward.

And so when I think about it, I think it’s important to move from that transactional support. Just hi, how you doing? Just a simple check-in to really being transformational and lifting folks up. And so lift, thinking about lifting as we climb and thinking about ways that we’re lifting up folks’ names and spaces that they may not be there.

And I think when we do that, we can empower the next generation to be successful. But we also. Begin to shift systems to open doors to create new opportunities for folks. When I think about myself one of the things that was really important for me, in my presidency and thinking about my convention chair, Aja, who is on this panel with us, was that I recall my time period in the A CPA, which had been about 15 years, and I had not seen a black woman as convention chair.

And so going into it, I was like, oh, they. We know that 92% all that they do. And so I was like, that is going to be a focus of mine. And so that was just an opportunity that I was elected into this position and really wanted to create an opportunity for someone who I’ve known since I was an undergrad so many years ago.

But just super excited to have her in this role. And I knew that when I thought about the energy that needed to be brought into this position, Aja Holmes was it?

Heather Shea: I love that. Thank you

Aja Holmes: so much, Jonathan.

Heather Shea: I love all the interconnections. I think that’s one of the powerful things about this field.

And I think it’s really important to name that the mentoring isn’t just an individual act, it is really about a collect, a collective and a community. Other thoughts on how you all see these forms of mentoring interconnecting?

Aja Holmes: I think one of the many ways that we see the mentoring as a collective in terms of group wise is really bringing folks together to do that mentoring. And sometimes it’s not always, a formalized process, but it could be just looking at ways that we’re helping folks, in terms of doing their job search during, during that time they might be job searching.

Or they might, have a question. And that question might be something that you learn the lines of, how do I get published? Or I’m thinking about going into grad school, going into the doctorate program. And sometimes those little questions, just answering those questions can also provide a little bit a glimpse of mentorship, and getting them started into knowing that, okay. I was able to ask you this question, I might need to be able to have somebody else in my corner and take it that one step further. And so I think also sometimes just exposing them to a simple fact, if you’re answering a question for them or pointing them in the right direction for something might also slip and plant that seed of that need for that mentorship.

And that’s also too how collectively we can do that when we are working with folks who are, just started out in the field or trying to make that mid between entry level to mid-level, to senior level leadership in terms of those transitions.

Judy Marquez Kiyama: Yeah. A I love that you said that because I think it also dispels this notion that.

Like one person can serve in a whole role of mentoring knowledge and activities. And that’s just not the case. I don’t think any one person can give that and nor should we have to offer that either. I think it’s, it is, it’s collective care. And it’s the realization that especially right now in our institutions that, that I think continuously perpetuate individualism.

This is like the. Collectivism is the antidote to that. And I think we have to keep creating spaces to build that up. Right now when everything feels so heavy. Yeah.

Johnnie Allen, Jr.: I think I also want to add to that too, as well. I definitely agree with what they shared as well. And I think about my experience now receiving mentorship from a lot of the folks on this call, and then being able to actively practice that myself with peers, whether whether in my program at Florida State or just across the country at different graduate programs.

So being able to serve as a stage ahead peer to those folks, right? Whether that’s current master students that are thinking about pursuing PhD programs or. Working with early stage doctoral students as well. And so being able to practice a lot that I’ve been able to receive from others and passing that down, thinking about what Jonathan shared with just the aspect of being able to lift as you climb.

So being able to actively practice that now has really been probably one of the most rewarding parts of this journey for me personally because I get to do it with graduate students and also the undergraduates that I get to teach at Florida State. So just being able to see how that chain of mentorship continues right from the different mentoring relationships that you have.

Heather Shea: I love that it really sounds like it is intergenerational, right? And it has a ripple effect past your own time, as a mentor. And I think part of that might have to do with the communities and our positionality, right? And how we bring those. Experiences and our distinct backgrounds to mentoring.

So I’d love to hear how each of you have thought about how your positionality shapes the way you approach being a mentor, and have those experiences evolved over time? Who wants to kick us off on that one? I

Jonathan A. McElderry: think that’s me, okay. I think, so positionally definitely I think is key for me in understanding my role as being first gen, being black, being a male, and that how I navigate the world and navigate higher education is different from others, but then also maybe different from others who hold those same identities.

When I think about mentoring, I think it has to be not only contextual, but intersectional. And so it can change. Over the generations, how, I was mentor may be different than how someone is mentoring Johnnie for instance. And so being able to shift, I think people have to understand also some of my greatest mentors don’t hold the same identities as me.

And they have been some of my champions that have lifted my name in different spaces and really pushed me to see the potential that I probably didn’t always see in myself knowing that I was navigating uncharted territories. I think the only last thing I would say is echoing what Johnnie mentioned earlier about that reciprocity.

And so understanding that as a mentor you should be instilling knowledge upon whoever the mentee is, but also you should be learning and receiving from them as well. And as mentors or mentees, how are we picking ourselves to pass that information on to the next generation and bring them along the same way that people have done for us?

Heather Shea: Yeah, that’s great. Judy, what about you?

Judy Marquez Kiyama: I feel like it, as we go through, we’re just like, yes, I echo that. I grew up in a very small Mexican rural mining town community. And so as I think about my identities as a Latina, as a first generation college student it was so embedded in this like smaller community feel where people just took care of each other and.

And so that very much grounds how I approach this work. And I’ve been really lucky that my research and my scholarship has intertwined in really meaningful and authentic ways, right? Like I, I study families and communities and I work alongside them, and I consider myself a community based researcher, but it’s all because of that, like home experiences and home knowledge.

And for me that’s I guess the guiding questions always is how. How am I responsive to the communities that I am embedded with at this moment? Whether that’s, again, families that are participating in studies or the communities that we’re living and interacting with on, on our campuses.

But it’s always what, like what cues am I taking from those communities and how do I make sure that I’m honoring those needs rather than just coming at it from my own maybe individual perspective.

Heather Shea: Thank you. Johnnie.

Johnnie Allen, Jr.: Excuse me. Similar to what Julie and Jonathan shared. I think mine is a blend of both, right?

When I think about my upbringing from my small hometown in northern Indiana shout out to Elkhart, Indiana. I love to tell people that’s where I’m from, but I think about that in addition to my positionality as a black man, first generation. And thinking about what it means to be even a mentor within my own family life.

And so being able to be the first person to charter some territories that others haven’t done before, but knowing that I wouldn’t be where I am today without my family support. And so I know that like their love and mentorship and care has also transpired to how I engage in mentor relationships myself.

And so when I think about currently, or even throughout my time from undergraduate to now the way that I’ve always approached mentorship has been more. C community oriented. And so really thinking about how do we support communities and people a part of those communities. And so then having the pleasure of being able to work with students in a curricular concept and in terms of the classroom has been really great.

And then thinking about their experiences outside of the classroom as black student leaders on college campuses and thinking about how do they navigate those experiences from the lessons learned in class. And so a lot of times I’m able to see myself in some of their shoes. I always tell my students, I just told them today, actually, I taught earlier this afternoon, but I told them just the luxury the privilege it is to have a course.

They just focused on their identity, right? I would love to have experience taking a black male leadership course as an undergraduate student to where here at Florida State the students have the opportunity to do that. So really take advantage of the opportunity with the connections of the peers in the community and thinking about how do you pass that?

Experience forward, whether it’s, talking about the course and encouraging their peers to enroll in future future semesters.

Heather Shea: That’s amazing. That’s incredible. Aja, how about you? I think,

Aja Holmes: As someone who is a qualitative researcher who enjoys that, who also understands that I’m bringing all of me and authentically in terms of who I am and all of my past experiences to this particular, mentor or ment or mentee, experience.

That’s it. That’s, for me, that’s critical to be able to draw upon, all those assets and facets of my life to be able to help. This next person achieved next was for them, right? So I don’t take it lightly when it comes to asking me questions or when it comes to presenting out what’s next for them, the next 3, 5, 7 years down the line.

And helping them get there and map that out for them. And also explaining to them, here, I’m coming to you from this perspective because I’ve had this experience that has shaped who I am. And being able to provide that context for them so that way they can also understand and also. Be able to, when they get into the opportunity to mentor as well, understand that you have to pull from those experiences.

You have to pull from that part and let your positionality be the foundation of who you are and how you are interweaving that into everything that you’re doing and knowing that you can’t separate yourself from that. And so I think that’s also really critical in terms of how we are shaping those who are, we are mentoring to then be mentors to the next folks coming up.

Heather Shea: That’s great. So for those of you who don’t know this background, Judy and I actually work together at the University of Arizona, and this is where all of these things overlap and intersect. But Judy, I think you were one of the first people who sparked the in my mind at least that we’re, we study a lot of the impact that.

Mentors have on their mentees and what mentees gain from that experience. But what about the mentors themselves? And so we’ll link your article in here as well. ’cause that’s actually really grounded. Like when we build mentoring programs, are we also thinking about the larger community? So your work as a scholar, you have.

Emphasized the culturally responsive practices. So can you talk a little bit about what mentoring looks like when it is grounded in cultural responsiveness?

Judy Marquez Kiyama: Yeah, thank you Heather. I think the positionality responses that we had to the previous question. Maybe our perfect segue right into that question, because that’s exactly what it is, right?

Honoring who and how we come into this, these spaces both for ourselves and of course for the people that we’re mentoring our mentees. But I I mentioned Rendon’s work earlier. And then when we did the other session, and, she writes so much about validation theory and her work around ante sensing and feeling pedagogy is all around honoring, right?

Those cultural knowledges like funds of knowledge, like culturally responsive pedagogies and practices. And it is, it’s about not just validating who we are in these spaces, but bringing that knowledge, bringing those cultural histories, bringing those family interactions and family knowledges into our teaching and learning spaces, into our mentoring practices, into our advising practices, our programs.

And this is of course, decades of work, right? By scholars of color and gloria Latson, billions and Geneva, gay and la and much, later jangle Paris and Samuel Lehman, the way that they’ve pushed us to think about it as liberatory spaces and sustaining cultural spaces. And we know we know from all this research that it’s connected to academic outcomes and academic gains, but it also creates.

A sense of belonging for students. It creates that validation, right? It creates a possibility for students to see themselves as connected to larger social transformation, the social and political consciousness, the again, the liberatory spaces. And so I, I don’t. It’s not limited right. To the classroom.

When we think about teaching and learning spaces that’s the mentoring practices too. And so it’s just so powerful and we have so many resources to build upon because the research is so deep in these, in this work that I think there’s no excuse for us not to engage in these practices because we know how powerful that they can be.

Aja Holmes: Absolutely.

Heather Shea: I so I have the honor and privilege of working with a co, cohort programs. A portfolio of cohort programs, and each one of them has mentoring built in. And I think for me it’s just an ev it’s just an example of how powerful it is as a tool for persistence and retention for sure, but also as a way to, to think about engaging students within their community and be those forces for transformation.

Aja, I think ever since I have first interacted with you through our work at A CPA, you have, you bring joy. I think of those two things as inner, connected Aja and joy. And I think that the joy that you bring and the talking about community and joyful communities are powerful voices or places for transformation as well.

And I’d love to hear about how. When we think about mentorship and we practice it collectively, how can we do that through a place of community and joy rather than just in the one-on-one.

Aja Holmes: Yeah, I think that’s one of those ways that I think we’re missing sometimes the mark when it comes to, the high impact practices that we’re trying to have our undergraduates connect with.

And I think mentoring is one of those aspects that I really think that we need to look at. How do we collectively do that? And with working with the different living learning communities that I have been a part of, and ways that we have continued to keep. Upper class students engaged in and also providing that support back to our first year students.

It comes through mentoring, it comes through putting together, a small group of folks where you are mentoring together and you’re moving through. And when you look at, you mentioned the cohort style and moving together as a cohort as you have that automatically built in community, automatically built in that collection of folks who are coming together to do the same thing and matriculate and move through things as well.

I think that is something that is, is critical for us because it’s, I think also to an easy way for our upper class students to also to, and our folks who are second and third year graduate students to really give back to our incoming folks and using that as a collective part to.

Ensure that folks who are in these experiences are moving together through the experiences, so that way we can have those commonalities and those common opportunities and experiences with each other. I really believe in the cohort model. I really believe in, group dynamics and knowing that peer-to-peer education, it works.

And that is one of the ways that peer education can really, you know, sink their teeth in and really grab a hold of the experiences for our first year students and for our first person to going through those experiences, whether you’re first year grad students or undergrad, to really to link you through and ensure that persistence towards graduation is through having that peer person you can ask those questions through and be comfortable around.

And not have to think about it, oh, I don’t have to go to the professor, but I can ask you the questions. I don’t have to go to my boss ’cause I can ask you the questions because that also too releases pressure from those folks who are in those leadership positions to be able to answer everything.

You know when they say it’s in the syllabus, right? You are asking me and it’s already in the syllabus, but. It also provides that opportunity for folks to build those friendships and build those opportunities there. I remember my mentor when I was in my first grad my first year of graduate, my doctoral program, Clint Stevens, who was, was my mentor, and he took that seriously.

And I modeled some of the ways that I approached that. And my mentoring from what also he gave me too. But I really do believe in those peer-to-peer interactions and really using that as a way to help guide folks through towards persistence towards their graduation.

Heather Shea: That’s great.

So Johnnie, I wanna move to you next as somebody who is earlier in your professional journey. Doc student, though, that’s impressive. Talk about who has been a possibility model for you, someone who showed up and showed you what was possible for your future career.

Johnnie Allen, Jr.: Excuse me. Thank you. I love this question.

I really can name several different folks. I just wanted to name that as well on this recording. But for the purpose of this episode, I wanna focus particularly on my faculty advisor, dissertation chair, mentor Dr. Cameron bag who was an associate professor in the higher education program here at Florida State who has been an amazing possibility model showing me just different things that got, could be possible in higher education.

All together. And fun fact we both graduated from the same undergraduate institution and both did IU Hessa for our master’s degrees. And so we have a lot of overlap in terms of mentors also throughout our shared experiences. And so I think about that as well. So I think about the different ways that Dr.

Be has been mentor. By folks that I met during my undergraduate journey who are still some IU pillars like I would call it. But being able to see their impact in his experiences and how he was able to pay that forward for, I know myself and several other students and peers and general within the profession, but just the way that DR.

Be shows up as a educator. I think a lot of my teaching style so my first year in the doctoral program I got to work with him as a TA for the course that got currently. Teach as instructor record. And so I’ve been teaching the Black Male Leadership course now for about three semesters fully with some TA assistants.

But as instructor record, I learned everything pretty much from him with that experience. Just how he was able to facilitate activities and make him his own. And so being able to just really see and learn so much from him has been an amazing experience. And I love that we have a shared community with IU and just thinking about just the future and what that looks like as a mentor and a mentee relationship.

So he’s been an amazing possibility for me.

Heather Shea: Yeah, shout out to Dr. Beatty. He was also on the presidential symposium panel. And just an incredibly wise person. I’m glad that you named him in the space. Let’s open it up for everybody though. I would love to hear what advice you would give to folks who are seeking either being a mentor or seeking a mentee perhaps.

‘Cause it goes both ways. And then also how do we create mentoring networks that are rooted in care and justice. So what advice would you give for those who are in the process of maybe setting up a mentoring program? Jonathan, I’m gonna start with you on this one.

Jonathan A. McElderry: Okay. So the advice that I would give for those who may be in the mentoring aspect is asking them to share their story.

I think a lot of times when people see us in these roles, they see the degrees, they see all that we’ve accomplished. They forget that we also started from somewhere. And I think it’s just really important at the foundation to be like this is where I started from and this is how I got here.

And knowing that it takes time. I think a lot of times in that mentor-mentee relationship, they’d be like, oh, you know the be an undergrad or a grad student I want a PhD, or I wanna be dean of this, or president of this. And it’s no, it took time to get here. It took a lot of, life happening.

Life was lifeing trials and tribulations, but it took time for us to get here. So I think. That is important. I would say for me, in thinking about mentoring relationships I think I’m a fan of natural connections and so I like to naturally connect with people. Like I understand like how programs work, where they assign you somebody, but I think sometimes yeah, just a natural connection kinda works. I think about Johnnie who’s on this panel with this, like I met Johnnie because he is Dr. Beatty’s Advisee, who was a good friend of mine. But we were on a we had a presentation together for a book that Dr. Beatty did at Think at a CPA in New Orleans, and I met him there and I’m like.

We, our energies just clicked and I was like, oh, he is a, he’s very promising. He’s up and coming, like he’s about to do big things. And so we just naturally connected and just stayed in touch from there. So even when I entered this role with A CPA as the president and we had presidential interns, my first thought was like, oh, Johnnie I need you to do this.

And I remember sitting down with him and being like, Hey. I have this role and I need you to step into it. So the timeline, all these things, but I just think about the importance of just that natural connection. And for folks who, if you have a mentor, a mentee, understanding that, we go in waves and different motions and so sometimes.

It works for a season of your life and sometimes that season may end. And I think that is okay. If that happens, I think always try to end on good terms. ’cause as you saw from this panel, student affairs higher ed is very small and we are all interconnected and woven together. But yeah, I think understanding that people come in different seasons and as Judy mentioned earlier.

It doesn’t have to just be one mentor. You need to have a whole director of mentors for different aspects of your life, different seasons, different times. Yeah,

Heather Shea: I love that. The network approach. Aja, what about you? What advice would you give?

Aja Holmes: For those who are mentoring, I want to ensure that you have the time to do it.

Ah, the time to put into it. The time to follow up, to have those zoom meetings, to have those conversations, whether it’s phone calls or whatever. You and your mentee has decided to be the form of communication. Ensure that you have the time, right? Many times people who are. Pretty, well known in the field or pretty wide open.

You see them all the time and you’re like, oh my goodness, I want them to be my mentor. And they’re on thousands of other things. And so don’t, not, do not accept the mentorship or being a part of that mentorship if you don’t have the time to invest in that person. And so I want us to make sure that we’re really key on that.

Because like I said, we’ve already known this is a small field. People talk and we wanna make sure that the name that you’re putting out there is you’re being a mentor, that you’re following through and following up on what needs to and on, on the task at hand, and ensuring that person does that.

So I think that’s pretty pretty critical in ensuring that part. And you I also wanna make sure that we are understanding that is, as you are looking for a. Someone to, to mentor you, that you’re also asking questions. So have in your back pocket maybe three or four questions that you wanna be able to ask this person to potentially be your mentor that kind of helps you in that deciding factor, or help you in that, that part, and this is before you’ve asked them, this is what you’ve asked them.

Something about them that really connects to you. And maybe something about their, research or their work that they’re doing, maybe another question too about, how their mentor approach is to ask that’s like a mini interview. Like you’re interviewing this person to feel like, do I really want them to be my mentor?

And so having your back pocket three or four questions that you want to ask somebody to be able to be your mentor. So one mentor is, if you’re out there, make sure you got the time to finish and invest in this person. If not, say no and keep it moving. And then the other part is those who are looking for mentor.

You need those three or four questions that kind of have in your back pocket to be able to ask the person so you can really determine if this is the right mentor for you.

Heather Shea: That’s great. Yeah. Judy, what about you? What advice would you give?

Judy Marquez Kiyama: Yeah, I think, again, I love what my colleagues have shared already.

I think maybe five or six years ago I would not have answered in this way. Because I think we’re scared to use the word love in higher education. Yeah. But I now, I’m like, I don’t care. Approach the relationships with love and because right now, again, it’s so we’re in such a heavy time that sometimes that’s what people need, right?

We need to come together in, in caring and loving ways. And so for mentors, please don’t dismiss that. Please don’t dismiss the, just the power of what a. Humanizing loving approach can be. And I think Jonathan, I love that you talked about feeling the energy that’s around these spaces, because I think that’s important too, right?

We’re we are drawn to people who share similar energies, right? And who can help cultivate us in that way and. And I think in doing so, those are all the, also the people who we trust to really challenge us, right? And to push us. And that for me too comes from a space of love. And if I’m gonna grow and if we’re gonna help other people’s, other people grow, we can do that in very caring ways.

I think the other thing for mentees is to be open to some of the unexpected mentoring relationships that’ll happen. I never thought Gary Rhodes would be my mentor, right? He’s, we don’t share, again, we don’t share the same identities He is at a much further stage in his career. And just, he’s just been incredible.

There’s still. Not a professional decision that I will make without chatting with him, but it’s beyond that. It’s when I’ve gone through some of the more challenging personal times, he’s just set everything aside and helped me work through those pieces as well. And so he’s just been, he’s been wonderful and he consistently has been part of my personal and professional growth.

And I, again, unexpected possibilities.

Heather Shea: I love that. I feel like one of the things that just I really value, and I a lot of you have talked about how mentoring relationships ebb and flow. They also come in and out of your lives. But then when you have that person who’s that constant, like they’ve seen you through many different phases in your life, and I would, name my master’s advisor, Paul Chong as a critical mentor for me, and that’s been since like, I’ll say the 19 hundreds which makes me sound old. But I think those relationships just really matter and it’s really beautiful when they can have that. Stay, be a part of your career long term.

So this podcast on our final question, this podcast is called Student Affairs. Now we always like to end each episode with a question. What are you thinking about troubling pondering now? And if you would like to have folks get in touch with you or share how folks can get in touch with you, LinkedIn or other social media please share that as well.

And Judy, I’m gonna start it off with you.

Judy Marquez Kiyama: Yeah, I think one of the things I’ve been reflecting on is how can I continue to move towards spaces and build spaces that feel nourishing

when in so many other facets of our life. It feels a little bit draining right now. And I just I just returned from the Arizona HSI Summit, which is a gathering of all of the HSIs across the states.

So we have 22 HSIs at this point, and it was. It was so wonderful. I think the last time we all got together, we had just lost our funding and pretty much everybody in that space this last week has lost funding over the last couple of months, but it was still so joyous. And people were coming together for really.

Common reasons and doing so in a way that wasn’t bound by their own institutions and really supportive community. And it was fun and it was loving and it felt very nourishing. And so I left thinking, how do I keep cultivating that in my own classroom? What is the, what are the little things I can do so that students leave spaces with me thinking that felt like I.

Was fulfilled rather than drained. And I don’t have a perfect answer for that, but I think that’s one of the things I want to keep working on.

Heather Shea: Great. Johnnie, how about you? Final thoughts?

Johnnie Allen, Jr.: Yeah, I think, excuse me, for me, the final thoughts that something I’m partnering with is as I’ve highlighted, I teach a undergraduate leadership studies course.

This semester and something that we’re, something that we’re talking about currently is just this use of ai, that’s around in all aspects of our lived experiences. And so for me, I think it’s really tied to mentoring as well, right? Trying to teach my students some ethical use of AI while also being able to know that it isn’t going anywhere, right?

We know that it’s here, it’s a part of our experiences and just trying to teach my students various skills. They’re still transferable in a lot of ways. I think now I’m at the stage of the journey where, you know, the COVID-19 pandemic right, has it’s different types of students in the seats now than it was even just three years ago now that I think about it, right?

Ranging from first year to their final year at the institution. And something that my students are talking about is like reading pace and so wanting strategies about how to read or, what are some things to do when you do get distracted and you can’t focus with reading. And so for me, that’s something that’s been on my mind a lot here lately as we just completed the book club project assignment and book club sounds very not.

I wouldn’t say ancient, but it’s not something that people are still doing these days. I would say I am

Aja Holmes: love fun clubs.

Johnnie Allen, Jr.: Yeah,

Aja Holmes: I know. Favorite right?

Johnnie Allen, Jr.: Little physical book and so we have a physical book club but a lot of my students were struggling with that. So right now I think that’s something that I’m thinking about just as we continue to see the.

Landscape of higher education change with the students that are going to be enrolled in our institutions and how our learning and teaching strategies have to actually catch up to speed with those students. How are we, revamping or re-imagining coursework and assignments? So for me, that’s something that I’m really pondering on and just thinking about.

As this is my last semester teaching this class here at Florida State Penn of graduation, hopefully next spring. But I think it’s just something that I would leave for the future instructor for that course. To think about ways to potentially switch up the medium or the mold of the book club project.

Heather Shea: I love it. That’s great. I love a book club. I am constantly trying to get people to read, books that I’m reading and, but being a part of a formal group is always great. That’s awesome. Finally Jonathan, thank you so much for bringing this whole group together and for being willing to come and do it again.

I should also name, we are missing one of the members of the panel, Gloria. Chris. I wasn’t able to be here today, but Jonathan, what are your final thoughts?

Jonathan A. McElderry: So I think something I’m thinking about is just pathways to leadership. I think leading looks very challenging. It is very hard in the current context that we were in.

And so how are we. Continuing to cultivate the next generation, but also like to do it in a way where they’re not scared to step up to the plate to lead. I think about, how they, you being a past president of a CPA, like the busyness that comes with it and it’s time consuming and all of these things, but we, we do it because we love this association. We love this field. And so how are we instilling that in the next generation that it’s not gonna be butterflies all the time. There are going to be challenging opportunities, but I think for me, what I sit with is what am I learning from this?

How can I grow from this? And then how can I apply this to my day-to-day work? What can I, pass on to the next generation and be like, oh, hey, I did this, maybe you don’t wanna do this differently. And so that’s something that’s on my mind currently. Yeah, I would say that’s about it.

Heather Shea: Alright. I have learned so much from the four of you both in our previous conversation at the A PA Ash Presidential Symposium, but also again here today. Thank you so much for your time and for your wisdom. And for this very hopeful conversation I think a lot about and having just.

Also recorded a episode of current campus context of how difficult our work is right now, and I think we need this type of conversation as well. I also wanna give a quick shout out to our producer, Nat Ambrosey. She does all the behind the scenes work to make us look and sound great. Also, we are deeply grateful for our sponsor.

The Evolve Institute of Higher Education Leadership. Evolve is evolving as their name would suggest. Doctors Brian Aro, Don Lee, and our own Keith Edwards are excited to announce the Evolve Institute for Higher Education Leadership. Evolve offers leadership coaching journeys for executives, emerging executives, and emerging leaders, as well as a specific leading for equity focused cohort.

If you’re ready to Evolve your leadership team or invest in your own personal leadership, they would love to connect with you to talk either in person, hybrid or online to evolve your leadership for the betterment of us all. As I said at the top, we are marking our five year anniversary of Student Affairs Now.

We are so grateful for the ways this community of listeners, guests, like today’s panel and collaborators has grown over the years we’ve hosted. Now almost 300 conversations like this one, grounded in care, reflection, and shared commitment to learning and leading with purpose. So to our audience, whether you’ve been a part of this since the beginning or you are tuning in for the first time, we hope this episode leaves you feeling renewed and connected, nourished, as Judy said to a larger community of educators.

You’d like to continue the conversation. You can find us@studentaffairsnow.com, on YouTube, or wherever you will get your podcasts. Once again, Heather Shea, thank you for listening and thank you to everyone who’s been a part of the Student Affairs Now community these past five years, and here’s to the next and beyond.

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