Mila Padgett:
When I first came into the profession, wellness and was really a new concept, we had group fitness, you had exercise, you had intermurals, you had aquatics, but the whole wellness term was new. And one of the things that became very evident is no one owns it and no one should own it. Everyone plays part because students will gravitate to whatever calls to them, which is great. If it impacts their overall wellbeing in a positive way, then that’s where that they should be in that moment.

Heather Shea:
Hello and welcome to Student Affairs NOW, the online learning community for student affairs educators. I am your host, Heather Shea. Today we are discussing trends in campus recreation, fitness, intermural sports, and wellness initiatives with the current and incoming leadership of NIRSA the leaders in collegiate recreation. Before I introduce my guests today, I’m going to share a little bit more about our podcast and today’s sponsors Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and learning community for thousands of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs.

Heather Shea:
We hope you’ll find these conversations, make a contribution to the field and are restorative to the fashion. We release new episodes every week on Wednesdays, and you can find us at studentaffairsnow.com on YouTube or anywhere you listen to podcasts. Today’s episode is brought to you by Stylus, visit Styluspub.com and use the promo code SANow for 30% off and free shipping. Today’s episode is also sponsored by Simplicity, a true partner, simplicity supports all aspects of student life with technology platforms that empower institutions to make data driven decisions. You can stay tuned to the end of the podcast to hear a little bit more about each of our sponsors, as I mentioned, I’m your host, Heather Shea, my pronouns are she her and hers and I am broadcasting from the campus of Michigan state university, MSU occupies the ancestral traditional and contemporary lands of the NAAB three fires Confederacy of Ojibwe, Ottawa, and Potawatomi peoples. The university resides on land seated in the 1819 Treaty of Saginaw. I am so thrilled to have three dynamic individuals in leaders here today. Welcome to the podcast. First we have Dr. Cara Lucia president of NIRSA, an associate professor and chair of the department of sports management at Elon university. Welcome Cara.

Cara Lucia:
Hi, how are you?

Heather Shea:
Great to great to see you today. And then we also have Mila Padgett. Who’s the president designee of NOA and director of campus recreation at the University of South Carolina Aiken. Welcome Mila. And we have Dr. Wendy Windsor, president elective, NIRSA and director of campus recreation at Tulane University. So welcome three of you to the podcast. Please tell us a little bit about yourself, give a maybe fuller introduction and tell us a little bit about how you into this work. And you’re a bit about your background. So Cara, I’ll start with you.

Cara Lucia:
Great, thanks Heather. So excited to be here with everyone today. I actually started my journey at Elon University where I’m currently serving as department chair and as a professor. I got hired in to work in special events. And this was about, this was a 1999. So it’s been a huge part of who I am and, and part of my identity. So for half of my life campus recreation has been embedded. So I left Elon after graduation and went to Central Michigan University marketing was kind of new within campus recreation and I got a GA position in marketing and facilities. And after working in the field, after my GA position in facilities, I decided to go back to school and went to Virginia Tech to pursue a in educational leadership and policy studies and with the emphasis in higher ed.

Cara Lucia:
And so that really led to my passion around student college student development theory and working with student student employees and also our student participants within those settings. The nice thing, I guess when I, when I went over to the other side I got my first faculty job at JMU and taught in their campus recreation master’s track where I taught college student development theory. So I was always able to kind of stay connected to the practitioners and the professionals working in campus recreation. And so even with my past 10 years here at Elon University, I’ve continued to do that with, on our campus, but also finding ways to stay within the association. So I’m really excited to have these conversations about our industry of campus recreation as well as NIRSA association. So thank you for having me today.

Heather Shea:
Thanks so much, Cara. Mila. Welcome.

Mila Padgett :
Thank you. Again, my name is Mila Padgett and I started out like many collegiate recreation people in intermurals. So I was an intermural official and also a lifeguard at Fair State University in Michigan. From there I ended up getting a graduate assistantship and my undergrad at the time was in corporate fitness and corporate fitness was just starting. So I graduated in 1993. And so that was kind of a new and emerging field. So when I went to Southern Miss, my focus was wellness and it was really one of the first graduate assistantships that paired those things together. So then my first professional job was at Ohio University and I was hired as their fitness director. So I kind of went back up towards the Midwest. I stayed there for three years and then ended up at Oakland University where I stayed for 13 years and was really fortunate to be part of a team that developed an entire department from scratch and opened a new facility.

Mila Padgett :
And that was an excellent professional development for me as a young professional and then moving into being there for 13 years. Then I became the director at the University of South Carolina, Akin where I have been for almost 12 years now, which seems unbelievable. So my journey’s been all over different types of universities, different departments and throughout all of that, I’ve stayed connected in NIRSA and done a different leadership piece is in there. And just constantly what I hope is kept this growth mindset. And so, yeah, that’s a little bit about me.

Heather Shea:
Welcome. Thanks so much. I love that both of you have Michigan connections. It’s, it’s a very small world, Wendy, Michigan connection.

Wendy Windsor:
Well, Michigan connection

Heather Shea:
Tell us a little about you.

Wendy Windsor:
But, but you know, uniquely I do have a connection right off the bat with Mala and the fact that I am actually from Aiken, South Carolina. And so we both thought that was a very cool, like natural connection there, but a proud graduate upcoming university and similar to Mila and many other capret professionals. I started off in intermurals intermurals official moved up to a sports supervisor, but at Clemson I was known as Miss Recreation, not knowing that that was going to be my career trajectory, but was a member president of a women’s club soccer team club sport association did every possible group exercise class as possible once again, like I said, played every sport in addition to officiating. So campus rec was my college experience and went off to Auburn university for my graduate degree and the intermural graduate assistantship there.

Wendy Windsor:
And from there went to first Texas A&M Kingsville where I was the associate director of recreational sports was there for a couple of years, decided to come back to the Southeast and landed a job at Middle Tennessee State University where I was the associate director programs for about nine years before transitioning to Louisiana State University. So LSU, where I was there for about four years as the associate programs, and then decided to take a huge leap of faith, go out to the west coast and was the director of recreation for UCLA and was there for about three years and decided, even though I loved the west coast of the opportunity, I was a Southern, so I needed to come back home and Louisiana came calling again. And so this is how I landed here at Tulane university where I’ve been almost five years as the director.

Wendy Windsor:
And so it, it is really when I think about my career and I said I had a nice trajectory where I started off at a small program, became med major, went to a large program, and I went back to a med major. So the diversity is, is really I think what has led me to successfully lead, you know, this program here, but just looking to give back, because as I mentioned earlier campus rec was my, I mean that was my, my love and my passion in undergrad and graduate school. And it has continued to be, and, and I’m just excited to be here and share, you know, what the group, a lot of about what’s happening currently within campus rec. So

Heather Shea:
This is great. I love hearing people’s backgrounds and stories and all the different types of campuses that you’ve worked at and the, the ways that our careers right. Have kind of taken us all over. And perhaps you feel similarly for me, at least the professional association involvement was kind of always the constant for me. So I love hearing that. So Wendy, let’s stay with you for a moment though, and talk a bit about what, you know, what typically does a campus recreation department look like? What are the scope and breadth of the types of service is in structures, it support collegiate recreation. And if you could talk a little bit about reporting structure at least at Tulane, and then we’ll open this up for, for other folks to share their campus experiences as well.

Wendy Windsor:
Sure, absolutely. And I’ll, and I’ll take it from a more broad stance as well. because of course reporting structure and even operational sure is very different depending on the size of the institution and geographical location, etcetera, but a lot of campus recreation departments will port up through the division of student affairs. Although you do have some that report up through athletics and even some that are more in the academic side of the house. So here specifically at Tulane, we do report up to student affairs and very specifically we are a part of the student health and wellbeing unit. So we report up to campus health and that provides such a unique opportunity to where we have that natural partnership with the counseling center, student health, as well as health promotion. The typical structure that you will find in a lot of recreation departments is of course you have your senior leader as director.

Wendy Windsor:
And once again, depending on size and scope, you will have a senior leadership team that provides that support for for the director. And then what is very unique about recreation is the internal structures of whether it’s coordinators or assisted directors that oversee the different programs of intramurals for clubs, fitness and wellness, outdoor adventure, and aquatics provides that like internal promotional opportunities to really move up within the, as organization as well. So it’s really unique, but you know, when you think about recreation as a whole, you know, it is about providing those health and wellbeing opportunities throughout campus. So regardless of what university you are at, you know, some, some will say that the fitness and wellness aspect is a bread and butter or instrumentals is a bread and butter, but really you want to provide that diverse scope of opportunities to keep your health, your campus healthy and just promote that, that wellbeing aspect all throughout. So I think, you know, it’s, it is a great opportunity and I love it. So

Heather Shea:
I love it. That’s great. Mila, tell a little bit about how your campus structure differs since you’re at a smaller institution.

Mila Padgett :
Yeah. So USC Akin is considered a small liberal. We have somewhere around 3,200 students, you know, give or take in a year. So our structure is we have four full-time employees that do all of the things that we offer. And then we have a shared administrative assistant with an academic department. So what I would say at small campuses typically, and I’m probably staff wise, one of the larger staffs of small campuses, some have departments of one or two. And so the amount of work is still the same as in what you’re trying to deliver, but the people delivering it are smaller. So we wear many hats. You know, I, I have, you know, one of my staff is our marketing, our social media, our intermurals, our clubs and everything else like, so that is all what he is responsible for.

Mila Padgett :
So it’s just one of those things where I think you’re almost more of a generalist instead of very specific with what collegiate recreation offers. It has its benefits, you know, so you become very well versed in many things and not as specific, but again, then if you need to be really specific, you might not be getting exactly what you may need in order to be at a larger campus. So it’s, you know, kinda interesting. This was the smallest campus I have worked at, but I can tell you the impact is so personal because I also teach academically and I have 15 students in my classroom. So I get to know all of them very well, probably from their perspective it’s too well, but, you know, I love it. I have really enjoyed. And I feel like I personally have benefited from being at a small institution.

Heather Shea:
That’s great. Sometimes we end up emphasizing large schools, I think in general, but I love hearing how smaller campuses kind of do some of the same work and all the hats that folks wear. So as I mentioned in the opening, all three of you are leaders in NIRSA, the professional association, which I know only peripherally having been co-located a ACPA and NIRSA were co-located in Vegas in 2013. Yeah. So Cara’s a current president. Can you give us a broader overview of nurses history? Like what were the founding principles and purposes, and then a little bit about how things have evolved in the, in the last five to 10 years to better serve students.

Cara Lucia:
Yeah. I love the, a CPA connection. So when I talk here in a few minutes about the evolution of our strategic values, that work was really starting. We were talking about it and communicating that out in 2012 and 2013, so excited to share. You know, I, I liked how Wendy and Mila both talked about the whole idea of the breadth and depth, their examples from their per professional experiences, as well as their current jobs just goes to show the growth. And so, you know, we’ve had, we had programs that have had a hundred year anniversary. Our professional association NIRSA was actually created in 1950 by William Wason Dr. Wason. He was a biology professor at Dillard university and brought together 20 black leaders from HBCUs to create this, this association. So that association, they had their first meeting. And then we had an interesting kind of fact, as in 1959 women were actually eliminated from the membership and there were a lot of things going on through history.

Cara Lucia:
And so we were very unique in that and within the higher ed associations and our founding and grounding, and really kind of connects to this evolution of some of our strategic values that come that come to mind. So if we kind of fast forward, well, the breath and depth, right? We’ve heard intermurals club sports, aquatics, fitness, you know, there’s, there’s new things that we’re looking at. You know, some, some programs are engaging in eSports. We have outdoor adventure. If that’s, you know, climbing walls or high ropes course areas, there’s a lot of different ways that people are tapping into this work. And I liked how Wendy was talking about the idea that, you know, depending on your campus, you know, there’s certain bread and butters that are popping up, but we’re the, the goal is there’s an integration of all of these things and also an opportunity to be collab collaborative with partners across campus.

Cara Lucia:
So in 2011 we actually had the grounding of our six strategic values. And I’m just going to focus on two, as an example just as how it’s prevalent to what, to our current times. So one of those was equity, diversity and inclusion. And so we started to talk about this concept of the, the blur and swirl of our strategic values. And through that work, each of the values had two commissioners that would work on work teams to start creating educational pieces and learning more about the value. And so our EDI commission started work around 2011, 2012, developing an educational guide and doing some really strategic work around that value. And the interesting part for us is that we have this year we conducted a climate study. We’re actually going to be sharing this out to our membership in March around more of the systems within the association and within our NIRSA headquarters.

Cara Lucia:
But the interesting part is we’ve really focused on this profession and now we’re like, okay, what can we be doing as an association from an education perspective, as well as the actual systemic barriers that exist and how are we going to approach those? And so it’s been really, it’s been really interesting to see that evolution and that commitment through the muddy and murkiness of the work. But also, you know, focusing on the positive change that’s that’s happening. So one of the big ones that we’ve barely been focusing on is integrated wellbeing. So health and wellbeing is one of those strategic values. So I’m going to turn that over to Mila to just kind of share a little bit about what does this look like? What does this mean for us now and how has that really evolved over this past 10 to 12 years?

Mila Padgett :
Yeah, so I would say like I said, you know, when I first came into the profession, wellness and was really a new concept, we had group fitness, you had exercise, you had intermurals, you had aquatics, but the whole wellness term was new. And one of the things that became very evident is no one owns it and no one should own it. Everyone plays part because students will gravitate to whatever calls to them, which is great. If it impacts their overall wellbeing in a positive way, then that’s where that they should be in that moment. And NIRSA recognized that it took partnerships, it takes collaboration across campus. And I remember some of the first, or, you know, times that we were as a profession talking about it, that we wanted to be that bridge or be part of those teams that were having those conversations on our campuses.

Mila Padgett :
So that, well, this broad integrated approach has really been since the start with wellness in NIRSA, that’s always been, the conversation is how do we integrate? How do we reach across the table? How do we get people that may not see themselves as a wellness provider? Or someone impacting wellbeing? How do we get them to realize yes, you are and celebrate that and figure out how to get more people to the table. So that’s really kind of where it’s even at now, it continues to be one of our strategic priorities is that to continue this work of integrating across campuses with the mental health crisis, that we all see across all of our campuses, big and small, it takes a village and we all have to be willing to put ourselves into those spaces to help our students be successful. And I would even go one step further through this pandemic, which I know we’re going to talk about is how to keep our faculty and staff. And, and it it’s a community, right? Our colleges, our small cities campuses, you know, that we are a community and we have to help each other. And so it really is across the board. How do we make that impact for all, everyone that we see?

Wendy Windsor:
Well, and that’s what I was going to say, you know, Mila playing on the community, cause what you’re starting to see happen at a lot of institutions are these healthy campus initiatives or you know, just healthier universities where you are pulling in of total collaboration of, you know, focus on faculty and staff. You know, you’re bringing in undergraduate graduate students, you’re bringing in the staff and all of the wellbeing units. So, you know, you’re seeing a collective effort, right? That’s, that’s being made to really make sure that integrated wellness is a focus on campus in order to really ensure that you have individuals working on the preventive aspect. So recreation and health promotion really becomes key there. Then transitioning to the treatment. This is where you have your counseling center and, you know, our partners there really getting involved and then recovery and everyone is a part of the recovery, you know, and so it’s really a know these, these healthy campus initiatives are, are, are great opportunities. And some universities are leaning the way and others are really looking at what this could mean for their particular institution. But that is a example of this community and this focus of community that Mila was referring to that you’re starting to see play out on each of the is in the visual campuses.

Cara Lucia:
And Wendy, I want to acknowledge, you know, with, with me being on the academic side, you know, you, with these programs really sharing and, and really being these campus rec programs are leading campus initiatives with in collaboration. They are being looked at as the leads on this work. And, you know, even on our campus, our director, Larry Mellinger along with two faculty members, Caroline Ketchum, and Eric Hall, they actually worked with a framework called act belong, commit. But the great part is, is they are creating these workshops and opportunities for people like staff and faculty and students to come together who believe in the work, because I think the other shift is going to be this idea of, okay, how are, how are these advocates for mental health and wellbeing actually coming out and, and showing up in the classroom? So as a faculty member, what am I, how am I engaging? And I just think that we need to be appreciative of our campus recreation professionals on our campus because many times they’re the ones at the table being responsible to lead the work.

Heather Shea:
I love that NIRSA has embraced this. And I think that you know, particularly more recently, right, we’re not trying to make the case that campus rec is like this value added, you know, thing that campuses should be considering adding. It’s like, it’s an essential component to our campus life. And Wendy, I want to go back to you for a moment to think a little bit about how the pandemic has shaped and affected the work of campus recreation. I know at one point on my campus, Michigan state were talking about moving treadmills and stationary bikes under tents. Of course it was cooler at that point in time. And then we were wondering about how we were going to heat it. Then we were wonder how we are going to cool it. And, you know, it’s, it was a stressful moment. And yet like two years later here we are, and I’m sure there’s been some major impacts on, on your work. Can you talk a little bit about how you and your colleagues have changed course over the past two years?

Wendy Windsor:
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I always go back in and I remember the day that, you know, we found out we were, we were closing and, and going home. And at that time we only thought it was for two or three weeks. Right. You know, we, we cannot imagine that it was going to be for two years. And I remember telling my staff, okay, you know, let’s just gather everything up and I’ll see y’all here shortly. You know?

Wendy Windsor:
Well, when I real that it was more long term, you know, I, I got the team together and I said, okay, you know, we gotta, we gotta, we gotta keep going. Even though we’re not physically in the building, you know, we’re still campus rec and we still have to, you know, find a way to provide, you know, these services for our two lane community. And so right away, you know, you started to see the launch of virtual, you know opportunities, virtual fitness really kind of took off during this time. And a lot of universities were very successful and really being able to quickly pivot into that format. And, and right now you’re still seeing a hybrid model, even though many of us are back here on campus is, you know, we still are offering those virtual opportunities because what it, it, what it showed us was that it does provide access to, you know, some of those individuals that for variety of, of reasons, you know, were not coming into our facilities.

Wendy Windsor:
So now we’re able to take a lot of those services to more people than, than we were pre pre COVID. But the other element, our outdoor adventure program, you know, the outdoor experiences really took off, you know, and right now we’ll say before COVID our outdoor adventure was probably more like our hidden secret. And now it’s one of our leading programs. because you think about all the different opportunities, these, and they’ve gotten very unique and, and really changed the scope of even what an outdoor activity can be. A lot of our group exercise classes are still being held outdoors because it just, it was such a big group. And what you’re seeing now is a lot of universities are investing into what’s called fitness courts, right. You know, where they’re, it’s a, it’s a whole outdoor basically fitness center. And, and those are really starting to be become popular out throughout.

Wendy Windsor:
So a lot of what we had to do right after COVID, but even coming back from COVID, you know, we, I mean reservation systems, we never, prior to COVID had a reservation system where individuals had to reserve spots to come into our facility, but to be able to make sure that we were able to stay open, but in a safe way and ensure that individuals that were coming into the facility felt safe with the social distancing requirements. And I mean, there’s a lot of what we did on a day to day basis really had to get shifted and yeah, you’re right, right. We moved equipment out of the weight room and, you know, got very creative in group exercise. We had boxes that were all 10 feet apart where individuals had to stay within their box to, to do their exercise routine. So it was, you know, similar to what a lot of other our colleagues had to do. Our goal was to just be open and remain open so we could provide, you know, that, that wellbeing lifestyle for our community. Yeah.

Heather Shea:
Mila, Cara. What, what would you add to changes over the past couple years?

Cara Lucia:
Oh, go ahead, Mila.

Mila Padgett :
I, I would say one of the things just when Wendy was talking that made me remember is the creativity and the problem solving that the student had at that time. So, you know, I said, we have a smaller professional staff and our students really, and undergrad students serve kind of what many universities have graduate students in and their resilience and figuring out we’re going to do this. And they did it on their own, asked for permission. And we said, go for it. And just their, their ability to create and their enthusiasm for it. It just made me remember how excited I was in that moment for only that specific thing, because it definitely was not an exciting time. But it shows now when you look back at it, there were some things uncovered from COVID that I do think forced us all to grow faster than what higher ed likes to grow. You like to take your time and, and this, you had to make some decisions quickly. And I think it all taught us that we have the ability to make good decisions quickly. We don’t have to take so much time at times. That really quick though, I it’s interesting was we were talking how different some states

Mila Padgett :
Were on their approach with COVID and even some universities. So I often let people know that we didn’t have to move equipment. We did, we did create a reservation system. We did have capacity limits and followed all those guidelines, but we still operated and we didn’t require masks when people were exercising. And we allowed that, knowing that that was a big part of our health and wellbeing for our campus. And we were okay with it, but also understanding we are a small university that does not have, we don’t have the numbers the way a Tulane University does. So you had to take into consideration your specific situation and know that it might not all look the same, but it all was reaching the same goal.

Heather Shea:
Yeah, that’s great.

Cara Lucia:
Yeah. And the only thing I was going to add was just, you know, again a lot of times we’ve, you know, individuals in these directors positions or executive director positions in campus record being asked to kind of facilitate challenges on campus. And so the other role was setting up testing centers in campus record facilities people who were ill being on call, right? So there were all these, you know, based on the, the type of facility and the specific community kind of going back to Mila’s point, really determined how that space was going to be used. And, and so some actually lost a lot of space due to being the response on campus, to help with, with the testing of students, faculty, and staff. And so, and even, and even community members, right. Based on, depending on the community. So I just wanted to, to put that point, sometimes it’s not in our, well, I guess a lot of us deal with that, right. It’s not in our job description. So there’s other things that come down the pipe.

Mila Padgett :
Yeah. Other

Cara Lucia:
And that.

Heather Shea:
Yeah. I mean, and it’s, it’s interesting that you all bring up student staff and the kind of creativity but then also kind of this, like being able to turn on a dime and, and make changes. And I think some of that is contributing to some staffing issues, right. That we’re, I think across student affairs, across higher ed lit early across every every business or, or corporation, but I’m really particularly interested in, in student staff and, you know, the ways that their engagement in campus recreation shapes their college experience and Cara, I know this is an area of expertise for you with your research. So maybe you could talk for a little bit about, you know, any information you have about how student staff have, have pivoted themselves, but then what role does participation and engagement in campus recreation play in learning and development?

Cara Lucia:
Yeah, I’ll kind of give the, the research kind of side of just college students and then turn it over to Milan. Wendy Kim really provide some impacts that they’ve had throughout this work this past year. So I think one of the things right, is we have to be really intentional about student leadership development and college student development and where students are when they’re transitioning in and also the type of students we have. Right. So we’ve already talked a lot about where they are. And so when we think about their development, their identity to meet their development and, you know, identity is based off of intersections of many things. And so, so making sure that we’re paying attention to that the other piece is like, how’s that scaffold throughout their time. So Julie Wallace car at James Madison University, she was a faculty member that really looked at the technical skills of the job and campus rec, right.

Cara Lucia:
So, you know, if you’ve been there a semester, this is what you’ve learned. And then, you know, you’ve been here for two years, you’ve moved up to a building supervisor and how do we kind of overlay the important pieces of leadership development within the technical skills that need to be developed as well. And so we really need to think about the intentionality of that. I’ve talked real quick about just assessing that and then talk about the challenges we’re facing right now. So, you know one, one example at Elon, we have a, we have experiential learning requirements. One of those leadership, another study abroad, undergraduate research, well, our club sports the person who oversees club sports actually worked with our center for leadership to create a leadership ELR experience for club sport leaders. And so they go through this process of kind of reflecting on their own development during that time, and they have to do different things throughout that experience.

Cara Lucia:
So real intentional, and we’re able to report that out, but based off of what they share and they complete that requirement. You know, we also have the the MSL, you know, work of John Duggan and that group in relation to people being able to, to connect that to campus rec as well as other areas on campus. And also connecting again, back to identity. So paying attention to that, I think, I think the piece right now that we’re really seeing right, is the impact of those high school students who were remote their junior senior year and are transitioning in. And as we think about the college student development theory models, that ground, the work that we talk about within student affairs, we really need to say, okay, what’s been happening this past two years. You know, I think there’s really, and there are some opportunities, right, for research and I’m things right in the process right now of people studying this.

Cara Lucia:
And what does that impact? And so what does that mean now for me, when I have new hires coming in, or those first year sophomores, or even the students that have been at the university remote for a year and a half, and now are transitioning back to being more in person. And so I think those are just the critical pieces. And, and then you’ve already mentioned before, or, you know, throw in the, the great resignation or people being able to make money, more money somewhere else. That becomes a challenge. So I’ll turn it over to Mila and Wendy to kind of jump into the application part of, of, of that.

Wendy Windsor:
Yeah. So one thing that I, I wanted to say, and we had to, to, to implement this new program this year because of what we were seeing with those, with our students, particularly the freshman and sophomores that were coming in and, you know, to them, it was, this is just a job. And we’re like, no, this is, this is a lot more. So we were like, how can we get them to understand the larger value and, and the, the learning and development that is occurring on the job. And so, so we decided to implement this program called Growth, a guided a reflection of work. And a lot of universities are starting to implement this, but basically what it is is once they’re hired, you know, we have a, a series of questions that we ask them to start intentionally helping them connect, right.

Wendy Windsor:
Their job to their leadership development, to their academic experience. So they can see this, this is much larger than just us showing up as wiping IDs. Correct. And then at the end of the semester, we do each of the, the area supervisors are required to do an interview and in the interview, right. They’re getting them once again to intentionally reflect and focus on their work experience. And we try to be very intentional time that back to their academic experience as well. So this is, this is our first year of doing it in the, is going really, really well thus far. So, you know, and ask me next year and I can give more, you know, concrete data on, and really it’s just making a, a impact, but we’re starting to see that at least those students that may not have had that, that full, like in person experience as some of the ones that started with us as a freshman and work their way up, we’re starting to see that they’re starting to say, wait a minute. You know, this is going to be a value for us once we graduate and trying to connect them to how they can then utilize this on their first job in the, in the real world. So too.

Mila Padgett :
Yeah, Wendy, did you see me right that down? I was like, oh, Which is so exciting. Cause that’s really what our profession’s about. And I’m sure yours is as well is the sharing. And that’s what we’ve missed so much the last years. And finally being able to come together in person is going to be amazing. Are they think our brains are going to be overloaded with joy and information?

Heather Shea:
Yeah. Yeah. Before we started recording today, I was, I was mentioning, I just got back from ACPA and it’s it, it is so valuable to be back in person because I don’t think you can replicate that in virtual spaces at all. So,

Cara Lucia:
Yeah. And that’s a great point. I was just thinking of something tying back to the students and this whole idea of being in person. Right. You know, I think within our association work and the work we do on our campuses, not being able to have the side conversation or meet for breakfast or go to dinner and really that’s where a lot of the work happens. Right. And so even when, as we’re thinking about our and I’ve, as I’ve been talking with different colleagues, you know, this whole idea of Stu some students are wanting to be isolated and we need to kind of think about what is, what are these opportunities for social development. And so sometimes that happens at the workplace, but where are we intentionally helping them with building relationships? And there’s a really good book called Relationships Matter. I, Peter Felton and Leo Lambert, and it really studies, there’s a lot of qualitative stories about the importance of relationships and I, and I think that’s really what campus recreation’s about and then trying to make sure that we’re identifying ways to engage people, how they might want to engage socially.

Cara Lucia:
And so that, there’s that sense of belonging

Heather Shea:
And then documenting that. Right. And I, I love I know a lot about Elon’s work with the co-curricular record and transcript that connects to that. Because students, you know, especially if they’re engaged in something on campus can really use the out to talk about their experience more broadly. I’m sure you’re connect. I’m sure you’re connected with those folks too.

Cara Lucia:
We, we it’s, it is really interesting that the intentionality around the experiential learning requirements and it’s, that’s what really helps our campus bridge the gap with academic affairs and student affairs to really have this collaborative nature where you’ve got, you know, student staff and faculty collaborating on projects and work. And, and it does, I mean, it is amazing. I mean, we have to, we, I think one thing we have to do when we’re doing this work though, is realize our jobs. We have a lot on our plates and making sure that we’re investing in the importance of relationships and that, and that needs to be the value.

Heather Shea:
So let’s talk a little bit about investment in terms of infrastructure. I think one of the things that you know, we’ve definitely discussed is how, you know, not only the structures and ways in which we engage in recreation and fitness has changed given in the pandemic, but, you know, these are buildings that require a significant amount of staff support and upkeep and all of that. So, and this makes, I think campus recreation, particularly unique. Mila, can you talk a little bit about how you keep up with trends you know, how you make decisions about engaging and investing in your infrastructure and, and then maybe some of the processes that NIRSA helps with to kind of facilitate that on campuses broadly.

Mila Padgett :
Yeah. You know, so being at a small institution, it depends because every institution is different, but our resources are limited. It’s the easiest way to say that. So I have definitely, my team and I have had to be creative in the way that we are going to approach things. We don’t have a lot of financial resources to just dig in. So we ask for stuff a lot and we’re success to get a replacement plan for equipment after asking for multiple years. But I think people finally saw like the value. I mean, we had out of order signs all over our equipment, which is not good customer service. It’s just not good for business. And we are a business, you know, you’re, you’re, we have memberships in the, the community. We have a cardiac rehab program that we have a partnership with the hospital across the street.

Mila Padgett :
So we have a lot of interfacing with the, Akin and community that we use that to our advantage as much as we can. I am happy to report. I think I’m going to get this space renovated. And I’m really excited about that. But I will say one thing that I have learned coming to USC Akin was the importance of investing in people. So investing in the staff that helped me make everything happen, investing in our students, working with other people across campus. So investing in my colleagues, because we have to build those relationships, because our facilities may not be brand new. They, they are not brand new. And, and so how can we still make people want to come into our spaces? And that’s all about their experience. If they have a good experience, when they come, they will come back. If they have a poor one they’re not going to, and I would say those positive experiences with other people, even if your facilities aren’t bright and shiny, brand new, they’re still going to come back because of the experience with the people.

Mila Padgett :
And I do think that’s really important because you can get lost in the, you know, all the bright and shiny. Now I do love the bright and shiny. Yeah. But sometimes you just can’t have it all the time and that’s okay. I would say one great thing that NIRSA does and you mentioned it is we have a fantastic expo and we have that is another thing coming back into being in person is we get to interface with our vendors. Many people across NSA have personal relationships with our vendors because they talk ’em all the time and they inform them about trends and the other cool thing that vendors are doing now, they’re doing research. Then they’re sharing their research with this latest way to do X. This is how it benefits the brain, the body, mental health, academic success. And they’re pulling all that together because you do have to be evidence based. I mean, gone are the days that you can just kinda decide what you’re doing. You, you really do have to be more intentional about it. And that’s another way that things have evolved over time.

Heather Shea:
Wendy, what would you add as far as investment, infrastructure, responding to trends, that kind of thing.

Wendy Windsor:
Yeah. I mean, I’m glad Molly just mentioned that expo. because one thing that I was going to say is, is, you know, in regards to just keeping up with trends, it’s really about, you know, attending, you know, a lot of the opportunities that the association offers. So whether it is the annual conference, right. And going to the different sessions and visiting the expo hall and just learning and engaging with one another. But we also have very well, at least before COVID right. Very specific institutes or opportunities where if you are facilities right, you can get together at the facilities Institute, learn from one another, learn from the vendors, really find out what is the latest and greatest. If you’re an intermurals or club sports, you have the opportunity to get together with your colleagues that do that at various universities throughout and learning and engaging from one another.

Wendy Windsor:
And I think that’s really one of the, the great things about NIRSA is that the best learning comes from just those conversations where, you know, you’re reaching out to colleagues and you’re saying, Hey, you know, how, how are you doing this at your institutional? Or, or, you know, what is the latest or what are you seeing? And it’s just that continual networking and that continual just exchanging of ideas that really brings us together as an association that I think is so unique to who we are within nup. But yeah, and, and even at the director’s level, know when we get to this senior leadership and you know, we’re still looking for that continual growth and learning opportunities as well. And so it’s, it’s just one of those things where for me personally, like the, the way I stay up is is yes, you can breathe and stay abreast of all the research and, and latest that’s out there, but it’s really just picking up the phone and said, Hey, Mila, Hey Cara, like, here’s, here’s what I’m dealing with or here’s the situation or here’s what I see happening coming up around the horizon.

Wendy Windsor:
Any ideas or thoughts on how I should navigate this? So it’s yeah.

Cara Lucia:
And when you, you just, you’re making me think about how, if I think about all of our time, the three of us within the association and, you know, know when, when new trends are coming or people are talking about let’s just, or I’m going to use eSports as the example, right? We’re like, that’s not, that’s not happening, but I think over time, right. What I’ve learned throughout my, my career is really you’re, you’re sitting around, you’re listening and you’re like, okay, well, where are the gaps? And maybe where are these opportunities? And the thing that’s so interesting, you know, with eSport, you know, we’ve, you know, you’ve got, you’ve got some professionalization of eSports, you’ve got club sports, you have student activities working with eSports, but there is, you know, there is this pull for these relationships with student affairs and academic affairs, like engineering programs, working with students who are creating spaces.

Cara Lucia:
And, you know, a lot of people, the, the stereotype would be, well, they’re just behind the computer playing this game. When some of these spaces have locker rooms, they have a social area. Then they have where their computers are plugged in. Maybe it’s already pre you know, pretation there or not. And really how we evolve. And I can remember, you know, six or seven years ago, like we’re not this isn’t who we are, you know? And so, so what does that mean? And here at Elon, we, we got our first eSport space. And what does that, what does that look like in relation to our students? And there, there is research out there, you know, around some of the, the negative experience with eSports, but then also this social piece which, you know, those, you know, like with my 14 year old son, I mean, that was his social connection with a lot of friends during the pandemic. And so, yeah. So how we think about things we have to remember, I liked Mila earlier said the growth mindset to keep not stay fixed on what we believe. Yeah.

Heather Shea:
Yeah. I’m going to move us into a lightning round, which maybe will illuminate some of other trends that we either appreciate or don’t appreciate quite so much. So the, the first question I have, and we’re going to do this in, in short order. And I think I have four different sections. So Mila first what is your personal favorite fitness activity

Mila Padgett :
Right now? It is the boutiquey kind of fitness, like good music, hard work for 45 minutes to an hour. So think F45 Orange Theory, that kind of thing.

Heather Shea:
Okay. Okay. Wendy, what about you?

Wendy Windsor:
I am into cardio boxing and hit. I like very intense. Let me go for about 30, 40 minutes and that’s a wrap, you know, so it’s just, but I love the boxing. It’s just, for me, it’s just such a, a good stress reliever, you know? And I’ll avoid saying some of my cues that I do. You, you know, when I’m hit the back, but it’s, it’s, you know, if you, if you don’t like somebody, you can just visualize your face up there and you can go to town. You know,

Heather Shea:
I love it. Cara, what’s your favorite?

Cara Lucia:
I’m going to say roller skating, traditional roller, roller skates, no roller blades. And the idea is we need to, when we’re refinishing or resurfacing, excuse me, floors at campus rec facilities, let’s have a roller skating party, man, before we put the new flooring down, because I’ll be there and I’m not doing it right now. It’s just when I have an opportunity to roller skate. That’s great. But that’s what I would want to do.

Heather Shea:
So what about what trend you would like to take hold Mila? What’s your trend?

Mila Padgett :
Well, I see all the college aged students right now wearing the clothes that I wore in college, but they have not brought back the big hair.

Heather Shea:
I love it. Wendy, what about you?

Wendy Windsor:
You know, I thought about this one and I was trying to think of if it was a certain activity or anything that I, you know, that we used to do, like even within recreation and well, I’m not sure if like, at any of the institutions, if you guys did that battleship like in the pool. Right. But

Mila Padgett :
It was so cool.

Wendy Windsor:
Cause it was like the actual battleship game. Right. And it was an activity that everyone could play and that everyone enjoyed and I’m like, and it was a really hot trend for a while. And then it just went away. Like we battle back. Cause that was awesome.

Cara Lucia:
It was awesome.

Heather Shea:
Cara, what’s your, what’s your trend? You wish you would take hold.

Cara Lucia:
I’m going to say if we’re going to get into eSports, why not original Nintendo. Now this might exist, but Hey, I would be there. I’d be ready to check it out and play some Mario I’d

Heather Shea:
Be ready. That would be super fun. Okay. What about, what, what activity would you like to bring back Mila?

Mila Padgett :
Do you remember of the days when they did the slide? Like the group fitness slide, what was it called? Back and forth like hockey.

Cara Lucia:
Oh, I know what you’re talking. I don’t know what it’s called.

Mila Padgett :
I really don’t want it to come back, but it just reminds me of my group fitness days when I first started

Heather Shea:
Do anything. Yeah. What about you Wendy?

Wendy Windsor:
No, I’ll was, I was thinking, because I know and this is going to be real basic, but I know even PE at like high schools is like non-existent now. Right. So I really think that there’s, there was so much value to just having organized physical education. Right. So bring it back at the high school, find a way to implement it at the college level. You and I think it’s, that’s, that’s a lost art that, that we no longer embrace.

Heather Shea:
I dunno. I have you know, dreams or nightmares about trying to climb the rope in PE.

Wendy Windsor:
Think about that one. The presidential

Heather Shea:
Could never do like maybe more than like two or three feet off the ground. It was, that was all I could go. What about you, Cara? What would you want to bring back?

Cara Lucia:
Yeah, I’m sure. I think we’re I think we’re probably still people who are still doing this, but I would love to see some kickball. I mean, I remember playing kickball in the pavement. I don’t think we’d do that much anymore. I can remember doing that in the empty parking lot at the middle school, growing up, we had some, some good kickball being outside. That’d

Wendy Windsor:
Be that a double dutch.

Cara Lucia:
Oh yeah. Double dutch was good. Yeah.

Heather Shea:
Okay. So unlimited budget, magic wand. If you could change one thing about your campus facility or invest in something for your campus fitness wise, what would it be? Mila.

Mila Padgett :
I would love a facility that had all of the holistic integrated wellbeing components under one roof or very close to each other. That would be fantastic.

Wendy Windsor:
Well, let’s stole my answer. So,

Wendy Windsor:
So it’s it’s and, and it’s something that is greatly needed here, you know, at, at Tulane because all of our facilities are aging facilities. So yes, one nice integrated wellness center, but also really specific to recreation right now my facility is half of our offices are on one level and the other half of the offices are completely, almost kind of like across, you know, at the bottom level. And so we have split offices and I hate right, because it just makes it challenging in so many ways. But the nice, wonderful have all of us under one umbrella would be amazing.

Heather Shea:
Yeah. At MSU it’s I am west, I am east, I am circle. Don’t ask me why it’s called. I am circle. But zoom is made that at really, you know, one of the things you have to go across campus anymore. Cara, I know you’re not in a director role, but if you could change one thing or, or add one fitness thing to your campus, what would it be?

Cara Lucia:
So first I was going to say positive vibes because they’re in the process of this integrated wellbeing. So just want to stay with the theme and then I’ll say selfishly, I would like in an indoor track one that, you know, you’re not running 18 laps around to get a mile and we currently don’t have one. So I think that would be amazing, but just very supportive of the amazing work that they’re doing, but yeah, selfishly indoor track, but love it because I like to get some sprints in, I can sprint and jog and walk.

Heather Shea:
I love that. I love that. Well, thank you all so much for your time today. We’re kind of closing out and of course we always like to end the podcast with the same kind of statement, this podcast is called Student Affairs NOW would love to hear what you’re pondering, troubling thinking about or excited about maybe as a result of this conversation or just generally in your work. And then if you could also share how people could get in touch with you. I think that would be great. So if it’s a social media channel or, or otherwise, so Wendy, we’re going to start with you.

Wendy Windsor:
Ah sure. So I think what am I pondering, you know, just, just really looking at a lot of the, and I really don’t like to say the great resignation, right. But just looking at what is currently happening within higher ed and student affairs and how we are starting to lose a lot of our talented professionals to other areas. Someone mentioned earlier like we’re in this free agency moment right now, you know? And, and so just curious on where not only is, is higher ed going to be in a year or two, but really what is, you know, collegiate recreation and even to really triple down, what is NIRSA and association going to be you in two or three years? Cause I think COVID is, is really calling us to ship and reprioritize and reimagine and re all the res right. You know,

Heather Shea:
Reevaluate. Yeah.

Wendy Windsor:
And so I’m just really curious on, you know, two years from now, right? Who are we going to be? As, as an association and as higher ed. And so that’s, that’s my, my wonder. Hmm. What if, you know, but I think the best way to contact me is just my, my email, which is very simple. My last name, windsor@tulane.edu.

Heather Shea:
Great.

Wendy Windsor:
I have social stuff. If you hit me up, I’ll eventually see, but I not on day, like Miss. Cara.

Cara Lucia:
So now everybody, I’m not going to be responding and then people are going to be like, she’s respond. She’s not paying attention. She’s not posting anything. I think I’s my persona and work and yeah, it’s all over. Right. It’s all over. Yeah. Yeah.

Heather Shea:
I love it. Mila, tell us a little bit about what you’re pondering, and then we’ll have Cara close it out.

Mila Padgett :
It’s very similar to Wendy. And what she said is COVID uncovered some things that I think needed to be uncovered. And what I wonder is will people capitalize on that and make the changes that need to be changed or will they go back to the way that things were? Because it does depend on who’s in leadership. And if you I’ll just leave it at that, it depends on who’s in your leadership, but I think it would be so tragic if we do not make the changes we need to make when they have been placed in front of this. So I, I hope in two years we see that if we have evolved immensely.

Heather Shea:
Great. And how can folks get in touch with you?

Mila Padgett :
Oh, yes. My name Mila, milap@usca.edu.

Heather Shea:
Great. Thanks so much, Cara, what about you?

Cara Lucia:
Yeah, so kind of going off, you know, I’m going to, I’m going to say excited about even in the challenge, right? I’m excited about this opportunity for change and, you know, with, with the exposure to racial injustice, the pandemic we’ve really been able to, to take a good look, you know, digging into our history, looking at current structures that are taking place and taking time to focus on what matters, right? What are things we need to sunset and let go of? What are the things that we, we should have been, and we need to be doing in this opportunity to be creative and innovative in this work. You know, it’s a fascinating time. We have five generations in the workplace. We may have more people coming back to school because they’re not at work. And what is our, what is our flex and our role in all of this with the people that we serve, our community, our students, our faculty, and our staff.

Cara Lucia:
And so I would just say that, that I’m excited about the opportunities in the murkiness of the change and the challenge. And I’ve been using in this platform of critical hope and critical hope as really based in the foundation and grounding of action, you know, and, and how we’re, how we’re digging deep into to cur be curious about, you know, hard questions and talking about difficult things. And I think it gives us an opportunity for some amazing positive change. So and to get in touch with me to talk more about that email is clucia2@elon.edu and would love to also connect with people on LinkedIn. Just look me up, Cara Lucia, Elon university sport management should be able to find me.

Heather Shea:
Great. Wonderful. Thank

Wendy Windsor:
You. Someone say before. Yeah, I have to give a shout off. I had to reach out to my training development person. So we did not come up with growth. The University Iowa did. Right. So I want to make sure I give them their mad pop props. And so, yes, I just wanted to say that before we tuned off the podcast.

Heather Shea:
Wonderful, and if we have links or whatever that we’ve mentioned, we can stick those into the show notes today. So if you have anything online. Yeah.

Cara Lucia:
And I was going to, I was going to say too, just to connect with the critical hope Kathy Guthrie just collaborated with someone on some great work that just recently came out. And then Presc, it’s a book from 2009, but I can see share that link if you’re interested in that as well from the concept of naive hope and critical hope.

Heather Shea:
I love it. Yeah. I think that’s, that’s more important now than perhaps ever. So, yeah. Thank you. Thank you all for your time. And for just the engagement today was a fascinating session for me, knowing a little bit about NSA just from this very long time ago and hoping we can all have a chance to connect in person again hopefully at a future conference. So thank you so much for all your time today. I also want to just give a quick shout out to our production assistant Nat Ambrosey, who does all the amazing behind the scenes work to make us look and sound great, transcribe all of our, all of our podcasts at episode. So thank you Nat. And if you’re listening today and not already receiving our weekly newsletter, please visit our website and add your email address to our MailChimp.

Heather Shea:
And while you’re there, you can check out our growing archives. We’re almost at a hundred episodes, which is exciting. And then finally, thanks today to our sponsors. Stylus is proud to be a sponsor of Student Affairs NOW podcast browse, their student affairs, diversity professional development titles styluspub.com. And as I mentioned, you can use the promo code essay now for 30% off all books plus free shipping. And you can find Stylus on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Twitter @Styluspub. Simplicity, our other sponsor is the global leader in student services, technology platforms with state of the art technology that empowers institutions to make data driven decisions specific to their goals. A true partner to the institution. Simplicity supports all aspects of student life, including, but not limited to career services and development student conduct and wellbeing student success, us and accessibility services. So you can learn more@simplicity.com or connect with them on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Please take a moment to visit our website, click on sponsors to learn more. Again, I’m Heather Shea thanks to our listeners and to everybody who’s watching make it a great week, everyone.

Websites:

https://nirsa.net/nirsa/

https://nirsa.net/nirsa/wp-content/uploads/Student_Leadership_Development_Resources-Booklet.pdf

https://www.collegeservicesmag-digital.com/jilq/0321_fall_2021/MobilePagedArticle.action?articleId=1724988#articleId1724988

https://nirsa.net/nirsa/portfolio-items/equity-diversity-inclusion-resource-guide/

https://nirsa.net/nirsa/wp-content/uploads/inter-assocation-well-being-definition-2011b.pdf

https://studentlife.uiowa.edu/initiatives/iowa-grow%C2%AE/

Books:

Arao, B. & Clemens, K. (2013). From safe spaces to brave spaces: A new way to frame dialogue around diversity and social justice. From the Art of Effective Facilitation. Sterling, VA: Stylus Publishing, LLC.

Guthrie, K.L. & Priest, K. L. (2022). Navigating complexities in Leadership: Moving toward critical hope. Columbia, SC: Information Age Publishing, LLC.

Guthrie, K.L. & Jenkins, D.M. (2018). The role of leadership educators: Transforming learning. Charlotte, NC: Information Age Publishing, Inc. 

Preskill, S. & Brookfield, S.D. (2009). Learning as a way of leading: Lessons from the struggle for Social Justice. San Francisco, CA: Jossey-Bass.