Helena Gardener: Hello and welcome to, Here’s the Story. I’m your host, Helena Gardner. I’ve spent the last 25 ish years working in higher education all over the country.

I live my life as a mom, a mentor, a sister, a daughter, and a friend. I’m so excited to welcome you to this episode of Here’s the Story, which is in the family of student affairs now.com. We spend some time connecting you to professionals all across the globe, hoping you to learn a little bit more about them and a whole lot more about yourself.

I’m gonna introduce my host.

J.T. Snipes: What up y’all? JT Snipes. My pronouns are he, him, his, I serve as associate professor and chair of the educational leadership department at Southern Illinois University. Edwardsville. And as usual, I’m trying my best to live as a free black man in a world that would have me live otherwise.

Helena Gardener: Thank you jt. I am happy to have you with me today before we introduce you to the most wonderful guest ’cause I’m a little bit nervous because I’m really excited for our guest today. I’m gonna shout out our sponsor, Huron’s Education and Research experts help institutions transform their strategy, operations, technology, and culture to foster innovation, financial health, and student success.

So listen, friends today.

J.T. Snipes: You are so excited. I can see you’re excited.

Helena Gardener: I’m so excited. What’s going on? Excited because lemme tell you something, our guest today probably has no idea how they are a part of a few people who I hold responsible to the fact that I carry the stress of this work every day. No.

Not necessarily the stress, but honestly the joy. Yeah, our guest today served as the, I think at the time I was there an associate director when I was a student worker in the housing office, and I started my journey as a student worker in housing. It expanded into an RA role. I’ve never left housing since that day, but one of the coolest things that I hold dearly in my own leadership is you could walk into.

Joanie, you don’t give her a name now. Joanie’s office. Oh yeah. See pictures of RAs for that year, all around the room. And I just thought that was the coolest thing because it wasn’t a small staff, it was a nice sized staff, but it was a way that I learned immediately that people mattered. That knowing people mattered, finding ways to make sure you could connect and be familiar, mattered, and smiling and welcoming people.

I learned during that time is one of the most critical pieces of success. I do all of my work from a relational lens, and I feel like a lot of that centering came from my time with very famous Joanie Schmidt, who welcomed me, just welcomed me into the space, smelled at me, gig, giggled with me, laughed at me.

And I didn’t even work for her at the time like I did, but I didn’t. Not in the ways of which I learned housing. But what I learned in that time is that we care for people, we care for students. And so I keep that close to my heart.

J.T. Snipes: That’s

Helena Gardener: beautiful. It’s so beautiful. And since that day, I think I was probably 19, maybe 20.

J.T. Snipes: So six years ago,

Helena Gardener: please. Like 30, about 30 years ago. But it’s a 30 year lesson. And along that journey, one thing that I’ve always been able to count on is going back for guidance, for wisdom, for reflection and knowing that I was gonna get the truth, I was gonna get honesty. Shoot, I could talk about Joanie all day.

There was one time even I thought I was ready for something and Joanie was like, we are not gonna move forward. But she called me and talked to me because she knew me. She didn’t let me be another person in a machine. And when I like, so when I tell you that I learned how to care for people from this magnificent gift to the field yeah, I’m excited.

I’m excited because I know that there is a story. Joanie’s gonna tell us. So Joanie, I’m gonna stop talking about you and let you talk about yourself. ’cause I probably think you want people to know about you, not just what I want people to know about you. But let’s welcome you, Joanie, tell Thank you. Tell us a little bit about you.

Joanie Schmidt: I’m excited and you’ve covered it very well, and I feel like this is like a mutual admiration society here because I have always felt the same way about he Elena. And I really appreciated the fact that you reached out to me for this, because when you’ve been retired a while, the relevancy factor makes you a little bit nervous, but I appreciate your trust in me.

I did watch a number of the interviews and I feel like I have some big shoes to fill, but I’ll do my best. My pronouns are she, her, hers, my current wife consists of being a wife a mother, a grandmother. A friend, a director emeritus. I’m a big planner and I think I’m the comic relief person and I think I’m the funniest person in the room, so I guess you Absolutely, you and JT are out of it, but and I grew up in Jackson, Michigan, and after graduating from Jackson High School I started my decades career at Central Michigan University.

One of the biggest reasons that gave me the impetus to go to CMU was a Cat Stevens album called T for the Tillman, and there’s a song called Father and Son and he wrote, now there’s a way, and I know that I have to go away. I know I have to go. And I took personal license with those words, but it really, it really made a big difference to me. My mother had been a widow since I was six years old, and to leave her at that time was very difficult. But but thanks to Cat Stevens, I really feel like he gave me that push. Music’s always been important to me when I walked into the towers at CMU as a freshman a place that I called home for four years.

Maggie May was playing on the stereo in the lobby and rod Stewart was singing, it’s late September and I really should be back in school. And it, it was late August, so again, it was license, literary license. But it assisted me in feeling like I was home. This was for me.

And I just wanted to mention that CMU is located on lands maintained, excuse me, for generations by the nationality people. The indigenous inhabitants of Michigan. And we still partner with the Saginaw Indian Tribe. And, most schools have gone away from their Native American. It’s not a mascot it’s our nickname.

But CMU really works to continue to have a really good working relationship with the tribe. It’s in our fight song. The pride, the dignity the honor and the respect for the tribe’s heritage. Another thing that I really loved about CMU is the CMU Seal. And Helena, you’ll, I’m sure you’ll remember that, and there are three words on there that, that are in Latin.

And I had two years of Latin in high school, but I’m not gonna attempt that. I’m just gonna say the words are wisdom virtue in friendship. I was always taken by the word friendship in that seal, because you don’t see that very often. And my office I could see the seal on some days and people would be there taking pictures, when they were admitted to Central or when they became engaged or graduation.

Of course I cried like a little girl every time I’d see somebody out there having their picture taken. But I think that friendship really rang true then, and I think it continues to ring true now. Both of my degrees are from CMU and Parks and Recreation, and my goal was to be a parks and rec director in a city, but it was at a point when the economy was in really bad shape.

And I thought I’d been an ra, maybe I can make a shot at that for a couple of years. So I took a grad assistantship at Miami of Ohio. I was only there a year because Ferris State in Michigan offered me a full-time position. So I took that and then the next year I returned to CMU as a hall director and where I completed my master’s degree, excuse me.

When I started out, I was the youngest person in the room. And it just seems like that has changed very quickly. So I’m warning you two that you know you’re gonna blink your eye and you’re not gonna be the youngest person anymore. I was the one that was being mentored and coached, and then I realized, Nope, you’re the one that’s gonna have to do that now.

And so I was involved with the Association of College and University Housing Officers International as the chair of the apartments committee. And at that point I met most of the exec board members. And I thought, these people are just like me, so I figured I’m going to give it a shot and see what happens.

And so I was very fortunate. I served as a president of the association and. The chair of the foundation, but really the most positive things were the ability to travel and to meet some really wonderful influential people around the world. I was able to take my youngest son to New Zealand where I spoke at a conference, and then I spent two weeks in South Africa and taught at a housing institute.

And those were all really life changing. Things for me. And if I hadn’t been involved in that association, I really don’t think I would’ve stayed at CMU as long or perhaps been in the in the field as long as I have been. The highlight of my career. And Helena, this was working with RA and MA staff members.

Particularly those that wanted to continue in the field. And you mentioned the photos in my office and there was a reason for that. And it was because we had a staff member that was unfortunately killed by a drunk driver and I didn’t know him very well and that day I swore I’m gonna know these people whether they wanna know me or not.

And so I posted their pictures in my office and invited them to come in and many did. The ones that I really spent the most time with were the folks that wanted to continue in the field. And I think the most visible and most successful thing that I incorporated during my time was inviting senior RA or MA staff members that wanted to continue in the field to go to kujo, our regional conference.

And, it was at a time when professional development funds like it all the time. Were difficult to come by, but we were going anywhere anyway, so we could transport them. We paid their registration and what they had to do was they had to apply, they had to turn in their resume and explain why it was they wanted to go.

It was a not a real popular thing to bring undergrads to a professional conference, and fortunately there were a lot of Chief housing officers there who embraced the idea. They didn’t follow it but maybe Embrace is a little generous. But there were only a couple really, that, that didn’t think it was a good idea.

And the irony of all that is they eventually ended up hiring some of the same folks that had been there as undergrads. But anyway, the people that were chosen to attend really I, I know benefited from it. And I really think. There’s probably a hundred percent of them that started, at least in residence life or student life after they attended Leho.

At Leho they were offered the opportunity to introduce speakers and to collect evaluations and do other tasks, and they really embraced that and that when they returned to campus, a lot of their hall directors told me that they could see a change in those folks just from the few days they were away.

They felt much more confident about their life and what they wanted to do. We were never embarrassed by them. We, we were very proud of them. The vast majority of them, like I mentioned, they’re still in residence life for student life and in this changing environment, I consider that a huge win.

A couple are directors of residence life others serve and assistant or associate directors at really large, really well respected programs and those that have left the field are no slouches by any means. One is a senior partner in a law firm. That deals with senior law and I, so I’ve kept his name over handy just in case I, I needed it if my kids wanna put me away or do anything, then I’m gonna call this fellow.

And another is teaching in Japan. And that was after two stints in Residence Life. And she worked in Residence Life for 10 years and others are working for nonprofits and they’re utilizing the skills that they learned as a student staff member. And I think Leho worked with that too. In addition to providing support for the conferences, I always encouraged undergrads to write for publication and of course served as a reference for them.

At this time our department attended the Oshkosh Placement Exchange where we recruited open hall director positions. And so we offered people that wanted to go through the OPE process. The opportunity to travel with us. We were going anyway, so you know, why not take them along? We

Helena Gardener: did that

Joanie Schmidt: there, and look where you are. Look where you are. I didn’t wanna mention names but prior to Oshkosh, our hall director and senior staff members put together a program to assist people that were going to OPE. And it was on resume writing and interviewing. And my favorite was Oshkosh. And that was a mock interview process beforehand to give them an idea of what was really gonna happen and great descriptions of what to expect during OPE.

I mentioned before about the pictures and the reason for putting them my, in my office. And you had mentioned the honesty part. Helena and I think that’s a very important part of. Working with working with anybody, but working with young, new professionals too. A lot of the staff thought that they would leave CMU with their bachelor’s degree and walk right into a big professional position, and I had to break it to them that more than likely you’re gonna be a grad assistant somewhere.

Or if you go to a small program, maybe you could find a professional position, but they thought they were gonna start out at the Taj Mahal and, and be the associate director and move into the director role when that person retired in a year. And I know that was upsetting to some folks and some have not forgotten over the very many years that I said that.

But and one of my most meaningful examples of working with students was a. A student who came from a rural community, just a few miles from Mount Pleasant. And he came to see me one day and he said he’d been offered a position at New York University, and what a change of life for him that would be.

And he wasn’t sure how to break it to his parents. And we had a really good chat about it and he really wanted to go, but he was nervous about it. And so that night I was watching the news back, when I watched the news. But I was watching the news and the student was graduating from high school, and it was early in March, and what was going on is her mother had terminal cancer and her mother really wanted to see her graduate.

So the school district made an exception and allowed the student to graduate early so her mother could be there. And of course, I cried like a baby during the entire, interview and I called the student the next morning and I just said, I’ve never done anything like this. And I always try to encourage people, not tell them what to do, but that morning I changed my plan and I told him he needed to go to NYU and that what had happened, I saw that he I just felt like the student was talking to me and I needed to tell him that.

And he did. He called NYU and he said, I want the position. I laugh now because he is like a big shooter in at a university in Shanghai. So can you imagine how his parents must feel about me now that, I assume they really despise me for not just stalking him into going to NYU, but Shanghai and he posts pictures from all over the world, what he’s doing and where he is.

But he also posts pictures of going back to his little hometown with his parents, thankfully. And I know things have changed a lot, over the last 10 years, and the pandemic obviously changed everything. Occupancy issues and declining student enrollment are devastating. International student enrollment is abysmal, budgets have been slashed.

But government is attempting to overtake everything, in every possible way. I really believe the need is greater than ever because of a lot of those things. For us to encourage people to continue in our field, the field is very different. I, it always, I don’t always, but I think about student athletes now and the transfer portal, which, this would take another hour if I got into my feeling about the transfer portal.

But, you hear a, an athlete that was. A freshman at, Baylor, a sophomore, wherever junior. And now they’re a senior and they’re at their fourth school. And I see that happening with some of our res life and student life staff too, that, it’s sometimes it’s easier just to make a move.

And speaking of easier, I think sometimes oftentimes they think, ugh, it’s just easier to do something else because you both know these are very tough positions. But life changing positions too. And so that was, that was what the way I viewed things when I worked and still do, I still hear from some of my former staff and, encourage and assist when I can.

I don’t know as many people as I used to know, but if I can open a door or a heart, that’s my job. So I hope that’s what you’re really looking for. And if you have any questions, I’d be happy to, I try to answer those. Thank you.

Helena Gardener: Thank you, jt. What’s on the tip of your tongue? I see it.

J.T. Snipes: No I’m just grateful for hearing the journey.

And for our audience, Joanie, I’m wondering if you could share with them why you wanted to tell this story today.

Joanie Schmidt: Okay. When Helena contacted me. I look back at my career and I think the two things that really stand out to me, were working with RAs and MAs and a couple of student leaders that weren’t student staff.

And building, we built five residence halls and graduate housing while I was there, and I was really more involved with grad housing than the others. And I loved it. It just it’s like your legacy, when you look back. And it’s a visible sign of it, but that’s true.

Probably more true with RA and MA staff that are continuing in the field, that’s truly your legacy as well. So that’s why I wanted to approach it. And I thought you’d say why now? And that’s a really, that’s a really difficult question for me to answer now. I, like I said, so much has changed over the last 10 years.

And I realize that I should mention, I guess I did go back to work spring semester.

From, last in January until May at CMU and I developed an internal review because they were in the process of hiring a new director of residence life. And then two years after I retired, I took an interim, a VP position at the University of Rhode Island.

And that was life changing. It was just a four month span. There’d been some issues and I was brought in too. To give them my heart and they gave me their heart. And it was just, I worked 11, 12 hour days and then I’d get in my car at night and drive. ’cause Rhode Island, you can go from one end to the other in 45 minutes.

Like I could drive to see Elena and I’d be in Connecticut or Massachusetts or wherever. But it was just, it was a wonderful experience. And so anyway, back to why now. Because there has been a number of years since I did this program, and I’m not saying that people should go to Gho or take their staff.

My point is that you need to involve ra ma whatever your terminology. You use student staff leaders that are good people, that care, that are diverse, that you really would like to see them take your place. And like I said, don’t blink because you won’t be the youngest in the room anymore. And it’s a shock to your system.

But so I was prepared for why now, and I guess I’m not too sure, if this would work, but, and I hate to say, think outside the box, it’s like on H-H-D-T-V where you check all the boxes. I just wanna flip that off. But anyway I do think that if you think of your students.

And how you can best assist them. It may not be your main job but it’s a very important one.

J.T. Snipes: No, that’s super important. I do, I’m thinking about you as a leader and as someone in retirement, I’m sure you get calls all the time. What, what makes you say yes to those calls?

Joanie Schmidt: Yeah, that’s a great question.

It was funny when, vice president at URI called After the first conversation I said to my husband, I think I was just offered a job, but, it’s not something that happens every day. And I did have a, another opportunity, but I’m at a point now where I think I’m good. I’m done.

I do work part-time for Colette Travel, and so I plan, I get people together. My, my. Company is called Joanie and Friends. And so when we travel, it’s people I know. I wouldn’t invite somebody that I wouldn’t wanna travel with.

J.T. Snipes: And

Joanie Schmidt: That keeps me busy. Really there aren’t many you hear from folks that might have a question about, where they are, what, where they’re going.

It’s hard after you’ve been retired for 10 years. Like I look at like the Parthenon people for COI and there’s two, I have no idea who they are and that kind of breaks my heart, with all of that involvement mean I think, who are these people? What have they done? It’s been a while

Helena Gardener: because there are times, honestly when I look as well as Parthenon and then the diamond honorees, I think that’s a CPA that does that and I remember.

What I would call, and you should know, you’re in the club legends there, there is, particularly in housing there, there were legends in the field and from the outside looking in that grew up together. They grew through their positions. Same play, same time. I mean in anywhere in Michigan, jt, I only roll with heavy hitters, but any place in Michigan.

People know Joanie it’s a thing. I, that Joanie, I hope, you probably don’t flex hard enough on that, but it’s a thing. But I think just in general, across the country, there were legends in watching the names move. It’s actually an experience for me that I was not sure I would feel.

And to your point I’m like, who are these people? What are they doing? How have they earned the right. To hang out in this list, right? This is so bougie and papas, when there were legends and you would see them and it was like a, it was the thing to look forward to. And I would offer maybe the field’s grown, it’s gotten bigger.

I’m not sure what it is. And I am starting to understand I’m not the youngest person in the room anymore because I actually don’t recognize people. I don’t know people people don’t know me. And that’s weird. That is actually kinda weird to be another person in the space, but to also for myself, professionally, start to think about what am I doing with the years because I don’t have small years, I got good years.

What am I doing with these years to position myself to be a legend like that? That’s what I think of, and when I look up to people and when I still geek out when I meet people that I heard their name. Like there, there’s a name. Their name is an award. That’s amazing to me.

Don’t write a book. Don’t be a person that worked on a 21st century project back in the day. I am. I get awestruck with it because that was for me how I look toward the career. And so I love that you took this journey of bringing people along. And I also, Lauren, because I do have a question in this. I love how you said you went there to give them your heart.

I believe that there’s soul work, there’s heart work, there’s hard work, and then sometimes there’s all these other kinds of work that are task and transactional and you’re managing and you have to do it to keep it going. And I like to hang out in hard heart and soul, and I think that’s different for d from different people.

But I will say that I’m finding the hard work.

I’m finding people need to be loved on and nurtured, but there’s a resistance in the transformation of the field, maybe in particular housing, that I feel like the heart, the soul, is in conflict with the heart. And I’m just wondering, Jodi, from the 10 years outlook back in what that feels like, to a legend.

I just hope you know you were Beyonce when I just said that. I just really hope you know, that was a Beyonce.

Joanie Schmidt: We could probably take my last name off then, right?

Helena Gardener: Yeah.

Joanie Schmidt: It is, it’s, it, you’re right. It’s very difficult and it’s disheartening disheartening. Yeah. I guess you’re talking about heart take that away. It is, and that, I guess that’s why when I went back in January, like I made the comment about being relevant, that I’m sure some of the folks I met with are thinking, what in the world?

We’re not going back 10 years. I don’t want ’em to go back 10 years. But I would like them to know what worked well for us during that time. We had the luxury of, 7,500 students living on campus. And, telling folks, no, sorry, we don’t have room for you and to where we are today.

Everything’s changed and yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know that I have a good answer for that. I, this isn’t really related to that, but when you’re talking about getting involved in, feeling your place in your heart and everything. I did a review at Texas a and MA million years ago with three men that were past presidents of Wai and we were meeting, and I hadn’t even considered running at that point, and we were meeting in the evening to talk about the day’s events, and those are really interesting, opportunities. And here I am with these three older, they were, they’re old now, and we’re sitting in this room talking and we all are in her socks and, and other things, but in our socks and I looked around the room and I started to laugh and I said apparently they really needed a woman on this committee.

‘Cause that I figured that’s why I was there. And then I thought, you guys are all vice, you were all former presidents. I could do the same work. And I guess my whole point is saying that I’m hoping that, younger folks see that, I had an opportunity to work with Jenny Arthur, who was one of the first women a presidents.

And she really made me think, and one of the comments she made one day was, I don’t wanna be director. I’m an associate director and I’m really happy with that. And it was like she gave me permission. Yeah. And Helena, it was like your interview when you were talking and I wrote it down ’cause I wanted to remember the verbiage, how dare you deny me the chance to help you.

And I just I went back and watched that again because that will always stay with me. And really disjointed thoughts here, but I maybe to wrap up, I I really think that each of us has an opportunity or a time, not opportunity, a time in their life when they need help, whether it’s financial or just support, just friendship or whatever.

When my dad died when I was six, my mom and I had the assistance from Social Security and if we didn’t have that, I don’t know what we would’ve done. And and God bless her ’cause she was. She’s the smartest person and the most common sense person. I know when I got to CMU as a freshman, I had no idea it was poor.

I was just shocked to walk into a room with people that had everything and just, they just expected that, that’s just the way it was. And I really, and I also didn’t know she wasn’t a good cook until I got to the dining commons and I loved everything and everybody else was like, tube steak, and pressed chicken and, the choice of hot dogs and pizza was like huge to me.

And, i, but anyway, my whole point was Selena, that your interview really made me think, and I really appreciated what you had to say. And there were so many good interviews like that. I think about Craig Allen and his ship shape, Sally, I wanted to make sure I didn’t say it correctly.

And Keith Edwards and his shoulds and Lion Mayon talking about his mentors, many of whom I know and have traveled with, and I just, I hope they saw that because that’s, yeah. Really important, but I thought it was all, everything was all very enlightening and I learned a great deal from folks and interesting.

And I just think we’re so fortunate to have people, so many good people in our field. And that’s my whole point, is we just need to replace ourselves with people that, that are going to be forward thinking and do things differently than we did because it has to be done differently now. Students, everybody, everything’s different.

But yet, it’s like the more things change, the more they stay the same. I,

Helena Gardener: yeah.

Joanie Schmidt: During my process of the internal review meeting with people, I’m thinking, oh yeah, I bitched about this. And I won’t say the year, but it was a long time ago. It’s but it’s a good life, I think that’s what we need to impress on younger folks, that it is a good life and it can be a career and hope they’ll take advantage of that.

Helena Gardener: Thank you for that, Joanie and. I appreciate you choosing to tell this story because I know I would not be here actually if there were not people who pulled me along.

I had other things I wanted to do, but I think that here’s the story has done for me. It’s given me an opportunity to why do I cry? Every episode, it’s given me an opportunity to bring the people. My life forward to hear their stories and share their stories. Sometimes as an extension of me I have cried almost every episode, but also to reflect it is very hard to do this work in the ways that we’re doing it, in these times in a season where people actually don’t take no for an answer.

And, you’ve done so much diligence to get to that. No. To your point, like sometimes it’s the same-ish and it’s because it’s not movable. There’s nothing you can do, although you might want to do it differently. But what I appreciate in this, in the reminder that you bring and even connecting in the other people is that however we do it, however we choose even jt, like in your teaching, doing it with heart for me is a thing people don’t forget.

Maya Angelou said you never forget how people made you feel. And that to me is why I keep going. And I can firmly say that there are people who sit on my shoulders and one of them for me is Joanie Schmidt. That reminds me of how to keep going and where it goes and what it’s doing. And I think we’re fortunate that social media allows us to stay connected.

But there are folks. You don’t know how that story ended, but you know what you gave them. And so I am just grateful that through here’s the story and JT I’m gonna wrap it for, and that through, here’s the story. We have an opportunity to bring both the legends together, the soon to be legends, that we’re able to bring these stories into play.

What we like to do with, here’s the story, is give an opportunity to bring voice to our experiences. Humanize the work we do, make it make sense. And I’m hopeful that in our efforts we are reminding people to keep going. And if we’re reminding people to make other decisions, that we’re wherever they go, at least like me, I do this work, this is how I choose to change the world.

That they’re able to pour their hearts into whatever they’re doing to change the world. I’m gonna shout out our sponsors. Before I close it out, I’m gonna give another nod to Huron. Huron collaborates with colleges and universities to create sound strategies, optimized operations, and accelerate digital transformation by embracing diverse perspective, encouraging new ideas, and challenging the status quo.

Huron promotes institutional resilience and education. For more information on Huron, please visit go.hcg.com/now. This, however, has been, here’s the story and I’m sorry folks who follow me for all the crying that I do, but I really love, I love, I’m gonna put that there. I really love. And when there are people that have really loved me, I’m so glad to spend time and I’m always honored to hear the stories and it always moves me because it reminds me, it just always reminds me where I am, where I’m going.

Joanie, I wanna thank you on behalf of everyone. I came through at CMU, you are not wrong. There are many of us still doing this work. We stay connected. We use utilize each other as resources, and those of us who did that student work together and are not in the field, we even stay connected because there was a wonderful culture that was cultivated through the RAMA program as CMU.

That has continued to be a foundation in my life. For folks who don’t know, I think I’m at six homecomings that I’ve missed since 1999. It’s because my experience was transformational in how I was allowed to be, how I was allowed to lead, how folks tapped my shoulder. And I always say central Michigan, Mount Pleasant, Michigan is one of the greatest places on Earth.

It has grown just as much as I have grown. And I am grateful to have been there when you were there and to continue to learn from people that and most recently that you traveled the world with. And I thank you for that. Jt, I’m glad to be in space with you. As always, I’m gonna let you go ahead and say some things to take us out ’cause I just need a moment.

J.T. Snipes: Always a pleasure. Yeah, thank you. And this again is, here’s the story. If you have a story, always wanna do a pitch. Please consider sharing it with us by leaving a two minute pitch via voice file@studentaffairsnow.com. Every story is welcome and every earnest perspective is worthy. And even if you don’t feel like sharing yours, you can still find ours on student affairs now.com, on YouTube, and anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Shout out to Nat as always for editing our episodes. Thank you for making us look good and sound good. You are an angel. We hope this is fled. We hope this is fed your flame a bit because your light matters. Keep using it to make the world a brighter place. And until next time, this has been, Here’s the Story.

Helena Gardener: Thank you. Bye friend.