J.T. Snipes: Welcome to Here’s the Story, a show that brings student affairs to life by sharing the authentic voices and lived experiences of those who are shaping our field every day. I’m your host, J.T. Snipes. My pronouns are he, him, his. I serve as an associate professor and chair of educational leadership at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville, and I’m trying my best to live as a free Black man in a world that would have me live otherwise.

And I am here with my co-host…

Helena Gardener: Helena Gardner. Hello, happy to see everyone. I’m Helena Gardner. I use she series pro- pronouns, and I serve as the director of residence educational housing services at Michigan State University. I live my life, however, as a mother, daughter, sister, mentor, friend and honestly- The caretaker of humanity.

That’s what … I want

J.T. Snipes: to say. Yes. That’s exactly Caretaker of humanity. Come on.

We’d like to thank today’s sponsor, Evolve. Evolve offers four leadership coaching journeys designed to expand capacity and build c- capabilities, empowering courageous leadership to transform institutions and reimagine the future of higher education.

All right. How you doing, Helena?

Helena Gardener: Good today. I’m doing good today. Little challenges with our air quality, but I’m doing well. How you doing?

J.T. Snipes: I’m doing all right. I’m actually really excited because I have a friend that I want to introduce to you, who has a wonderful story to tell.

Quortne Hutchings: All right.

J.T. Snipes: But, be- before we bring in Q, I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna bury the lede. I got a question for you. Have you ever forgotten about your body? I know that’s a weird question, but have you ever forgotten about your body?

Helena Gardener: I always do, and that looks like sometimes missing lunch, sometimes not drinking water and sacrificing sleep.

I always do, and I have to be conscious about taking care of myself, buddy.

I get reset. I get reset. Today’s a day that I haven’t left this office this morning.

J.T. Snipes: Yeah. I think it’s very common for, for- … us in, in higher ed to-

Helena Gardener: … To

J.T. Snipes: be going and doing but just to forget about our bodies.

Helena Gardener: Yeah. Yeah.

J.T. Snipes: And that’s why I am so delighted to have- … our guest Q come and share his story with us. Q, how are you, friend?

Quortne Hutchings: I’m doing good. Feeling good. Just coming back from visiting my family. My family is the, the folks that keep me grounded and keep me re-remind myself of not only our family’s history, but also it’s just good to spend time with them and watch- Some of the Blackity Black shows and laugh and joke and kiki, but also just got a chance to spend some really quality time with my mom, my grandma, my brother.

It was… I felt nourished. I came back nourished even though the air quality felt hazy. But my family kept me kept me clear in a lot of ways.

J.T. Snipes: Ooh. That’s great. So tell us a little bit about yourself and the work you do, and then we’ll jump into your story.

Quortne Hutchings: Yeah. My name is Quortne Hutchings.

I usually go by Q. Pronouns are they/them, but also open and flexible a- as, as I’ve been also really thinking deeply about my relationship to my own body and how my body is how I see myself in the world. I am a newly tenured associate professor which is, Very surreal, but also very very humbling and very honored to get to this stage of my career.

I currently am a faculty member at Northern Illinois University in our Higher Education Student Affairs program. And so a little bit about me. I am a Pisces, and like Erykah Badu, I’m e- I’m emotional about my shit. And so I feel very deeply about all things and everything. I am someone who loves music deeply.

Love documentaries. It’s something that I feel very grounded when I watch them and love to learn about history and stories. Been watching a lot of Unsung. So I watch a lot of, like- Okay … r&B music and things. And so those are things I think that really shape my love of music and how music also informs the way that I teach and the way that I do research and work.

And so yeah I usually talk about my teaching or talk about my research, but I think this time I w- I wanna l- lend and talk more so about the love of music. And so I think I’m a very big music lover. So if you asked me random things about Billboard charts and albums and who made songs and where songs were created I usually pretty much know a lot of random facts about music artists and where- how songs are being developed.

And so I think that reminds me a lot of my teaching, and also reminds me a lot of how research is deeply intertwined with music and musical background and musical interest.

J.T. Snipes: That’s awesome. So you have a story to share with us. The, the floor is yours, friend.

Quortne Hutchings: Yeah. I often think deeply about my teaching as a practice as a spiritual practice, as a practical practice, but also a body practice.

And so when we think about the mind, body, and spirit that is often what moves me in the classroom. And so the story that I’m gonna share with you all today is what happens when that, when you experience something in the classroom that changes you and your mind, your body, and your spirit. And how, as I will share a little bit more about how do my s- how my students re-reminded me of me taking care of myself in the ways that I was neglecting.

And so my story really starts about a few months ago. I was teaching my last class in a course in a master’s course. And that day is one of my longest days. So I live in Chicago, and I commute back and forth to my campus, which is a pretty long commute. It’s about an hour and a half one way.

So I often think about my… I often practice a space where I get myself grounded during my commute. And I know that those days when I teach are my longer days of teaching because I usually leave around 7:00 AM in the morning and knowing that I will probably not return home until probably about 8:30, 8, 8:30, 9:00 at night.

So I know those are my longer days. And as I was starting throughout this day, this was the last ti- last course that I was teaching in the semester, and it was the last class. And as we all know, as faculty members, I’ve been teaching for the last I’m going on my sixth year of teaching in the fall.

But this day felt different. And it was different one, for many reasons, that I felt very anxious. I felt very anxious about that day. And one of the things that I was doing throughout that space and time was whenever I feel anxious, I shut everything off and I just go. And that day was different meetings different back-to-back meetings and One of the things that I forgot to do was to take care of my own body and spirit throughout that day.

And as a student affairs professional, we often, and even as faculty, we’re often just going, and not learning how to stop and breathe and kinda take that time. And one of the things that that I was not doing was not taking care of my own body. So I had went to the gym, went to the gym that morning and was pra- pr- pretty much eating in a meeting.

Eating eating breakfast. And then I had a subsequent meetings all the way up until my final class. My final class, I began class, and we had a potluck. And so we had a potluck as I tend to do in our final class as a way of food and fellowship. And we as a class, we all decided that I was gonna order, I was gonna order pizza.

Usually a very small gift that I do as just “Hey, I wanna, provide food for the students.” And we all decided that I would order food towards the middle of the break of class due to one of our students was fasting for Ramadan, as I wanted to honor and respect their practices and and those different pieces There was something about that day that I felt that my body, it was kinda being on a hamster wheel, and it’s kinda that meme of that little hamster that’s holding on, and the wheel is still spinning, and it’s holding on for dear life.

And that was how my mind felt, my body felt, and I was just going and going. And so in the middle of class it was roughly around towards the middle of the classroom, and my students had asked, “Dr. Q, you need to go eat.” And I, as usual, I was like, “No, it’s fine. I will eat once the pizza arrives.

You all eat food.” Because I often tell my students I want them to nourish their bodies and take care of themselves. But I was not taking care of myself in that moment. And so I sat on top of the desk, and as I, as a s- a few students were talking throughout the conversation of of that class, I felt my body being disconnected to the point where my vision was starting to get a little blurry, a little hazy and I felt really untethered.

Not only untethered to what the students were saying, but my body felt untethered in that classroom. And there was a moment where I felt that everything I was thinking that day was coming ahead, and I was not giving myself the time to literally breathe. So I felt my body was really tense, and so I stopped my class and I said, “Hey can you all give me a quick second?”

Because I was not sure how my body was gonna react. And so I tell my students that, “I think I’m going to pass out.” And I sit- I put my body and I sit down on the ground, and my back is towards the back of the, my back is towards the back of the desk. And I just tell my students, “Hey, I need a minute.”

And I pass out In the class. This was where students came over to me, and I think oftentimes we have to be reminded that when trauma happens to the body, you have to also… memories and what exactly happens, what you experience, what the students experience, those are often similar reactions, similar things, and can also be a little different.

And so I I, from what I remember and I’ve also shared this with asked and shared this with students is I got up for a- after a few seconds and the students called campus safety in which the ambulance had to come in which they had to check my vitals and check all these different pieces my heart my A1C, all these other pieces.

And one of the things that I remember is all of the students leaving the classroom and walking out, and the medics and folks just talking to me and asking me, “Are you stressed?” And, I said, “Yes.” And so I also realized that stress was in my body and I also was not taking care of my own self in, in, in a way.

And after that they asked me if I was able, am I okay? Do I feel better? And I was like, I just needed to eat. And I just wanted to put something in my body and get myself back to back to myself. And I then ended up talking to my partner and sharing this with my partner afterwards.

And was very much “What is your course of action? Do I do I need to come and pick you up?” Those different pieces. And I said, “No.” I was like, “I think I feel fine.” And so I feel I feel ready or I feel fine. I just needed some time to get to myself. That was when the the medics left, campus safety left and students came back into the room.

And I asked the students I stopped and I said, I want to apologize about what happened.” And that is usually my first inkling as a faculty member to apologize for something that happens. I’m also a prone apologist, and so I often do that as a coping skill to, to not also to often lessen the, the heaviness that happens in the classroom.

The students all said there’s no need to apologize, like they were just concerned for me. And so what happened is that they actually gave me space where they fed me. They said, “Dr. Q, you’re not- you’re gonna sit here. We’re gonna let you eat, and we’re gonna be in food and fellowship.” And so throughout the time the students, we all as a class decided to continue with class.

And that was something that I think was also on point because they wanted to make sure that I was okay. But also they wanted to make sure that we were okay. So we processed class, we processed what was happening, and one of the things that I felt very grateful for in that moment was I felt that my students became the teachers.

And I learnt that often throughout this time was while this happened on one day- it was a moment that was led up to that. And so often what happens to our body when we’re teaching beyond our limits. And as a f- as someone who lives their life in recovery I’m nine- almost nine years in recovery from crystal meth use and about seven months in recovery from alcohol, and so I know what it means to push my body past the limit in different ways.

I never thought that this type of limit would happen in the classroom. And so I had to learn to have better practices for myself whether that’s literally having, water and electrolytes, having snacks and eating snacks throughout the day. I learned that if my students were in this position, which I would never want them to be, I would have told them to take care of themself.

And so the fact that I did not listen to my own body and I did not take my own advice made me think differently about what does the classroom look like. And so now I’ve been in a space where I’ve thought differently about my relationship to the classroom, but I think more importantly I learned about the relationship to myself as a person.

My, my students did not — They not only saw Dr. Q, but they saw Quortne, and that is a ver- that is a, a, a s- particular version of myself that I usually separate because I think that not everyone has access to Quortne, but a lot of folks will have access to Q or Dr. Q. And so because of those pieces, I learned deeply and more introspectively about what is my — what happens when the classroom space that I love so much becomes a, a space where it was ultimately a space of me passing myself past my, my physical and spiritual limits.

And so now I’ve been really intentional about thinking differently about what the classroom looks and feels like, but also I often think about that about my students. And then now it’s giving me space to think about what does that mean for myself. So whether that’s me taking my own breaks in my classroom and naturally leaving the classroom, right?

Or when students on a break, and usually faculty will say the students will come up to you during the break, right? And you’re not giving yourself a break, right? And so I’ve also been thinking deeply about what does — what is a s- spiritual and practical teaching practice that I can continue to do moving forward.

And so that is my story.

J.T. Snipes: Thank you for sharing Absolutely beautiful. Absolutely beautiful story. Oh, man. So many things that I want to ask you about. I’ll start with the question I ask all of our guests. Q, why did you wanna tell this story now?

Quortne Hutchings: I went back and forth about this story because I felt really

In some ways, to be honest, I felt a little embarrassed about it. And I know that embarrassed may not be the right word, but I felt untethered to the story. And I didn’t share this in the story, but I, this past semester, I have received recognition from my institution on my teaching. Oh, cool.

And I felt really, I f- I felt this sense of, While I felt really humbled and really honored that I received this teaching or th- these, these accolades, I felt really unsure if I was deserving of it because of what happened. And I said, “If this is the res- was that the result?” O- of these things, right?

And these things happened this, my experience of me what happened in my classroom happened before I received those, those recognitions. But that was something that was in my own head. And oftentimes as faculty, we tend to share the good things that happen to us in our lives. So we tend to share the accolades, the publications, the awards.

All of the things all the smiles. But… and often I’m a person that smiles often, but you often never know what’s behind that smile. A- and so I felt a little trepidation about sharing this story, because I didn’t want people to think- … pointy fingers of what was the reason and what were the factors behind it.

But I know that there might be someone that is also dealing with exhaustion and teaching, and just continuing to push past that, and just teaching because they feel like they have to. Or they’re not giving their body the attention that they need. And so I wanted to share this story to hopefully give people space to know that it’s okay to, it’s okay to listen to your body.

J.T. Snipes: Yeah.

Quortne Hutchings: The same way you would listen to your students.

J.T. Snipes: That’s so powerful because I had a similar thought. I also was nominated for, didn’t win, came in second for a teaching excellence award, and you often think about what is the cost of it. It’s very common for people to see the smiles as you put it so well, not knowing the cost of it.

And I appreciate you bringing that forward, ’cause I, I am concerned that especially in teaching, the cost is our bodies, and that becomes a normal expectation that we would give ourselves over to these systems and have the system recognize it, right? Oh, you’re willing to put yourself in harm’s way to do teaching, and that in and of itself becomes meritorious.

I don’t think that’s the case always but it is something that, that I also thought about. What, what gets sacrificed in order for these things to work? So I appreciate you bringing that forward.

Quortne Hutchings: And

Helena Gardener: another- Can I add to that? Oh, sorry. You go ahead. You go ahead. Oh, no.

Quortne Hutchings: I was thinking what you’re sharing reminds me of bell hooks, when bell hooks had shared that there was a moment where, and she didn’t know to leave the classroom when she had to use the restroom.

Like we, we as teachers, instructors, regardless if you’re tenure track, tenured instructor, not like all of those things, we often don’t, we often look at the classroom a- as a sometimes a locked in space that we cannot leave ourselves a- as a, as the person in front of the room. And what do we, how do we, how or why do we deny our bodies in those moments?

Helena Gardener: That’s what I was thinking when the setup that JT did me asking the question. Now I’m like, “Why me?” Because I know that I am personally a person. I don’t know that I didn’t know I could leave, but I, when I sit here today, I’m a little parched thinking about why haven’t I, why didn’t I take time between now and then to just do it?

What was I looking for? Where is the permission? Why is that the sacrifice? So like I’m really thinking about that, and knowing that you asked that question, and I am… It’s a routine for me. “Oh, it can wait.” But thinking about w- what is happening consequently. The thing I wanna say, thank you for sharing.

Thank you for sharing all the pieces of you and and even hearing you say kinda that disconnect you had from your body. That’s a very personal, intimate experience, so thank you for gifting us with that and making it okay for us to acknowledge that it happens. So thank you. But I wrote something down where you said this experience was happening in a space you love so much, in your classroom, like where you do your work, where you serve, where you build, where you help folks grow.

What I think is beautiful is that it is evident in the space that you love so much that you also cultivate that in return. Because to hear your students feed you, and then to allow you to eat while they move forward with your expectation that they were in community and shared a meal, because they knew that was of value to you, so they stayed present with it, right?

Even after leaving to clear the space for them to care for you, they came back, and even, just that check-in because in the spirit of is it worth it, I don’t want to confuse or reinforce in your body that it was worth it. But to know that the community and what you are building with them paid back and gave you that love back, that’s just, that’s mad cool, and I am grateful that the universe saw to pay it back in kind.

Because often in times we, as humans, may leave the space and clear the space to take care of folks because we think that’s what we have to do. We give you a, “Let me give it to you. Do what you need to do.” And I’m very bad at this, I will name for anybody who’s watching this, I’m very bad at allowing people to come back into the space to take care of me.

I’m a person that’s give me a minute and I’ll come back out.” But I love that the space you love so much stayed present with you. And I believe it will ever happen again, but if it never happened again not I don’t believe it will happen again and your body will fail you. The people will provide care to you again.

I believe you are deserving If it never does I really feel good about the time you needed it, so that your love wasn’t in vain. So that, that is what I wanna say. Your love for it isn’t in vain. Boy.

J.T. Snipes: Man, that, that’s so beautiful. One of, one of the things, I know we’re running short on time but I do want to index something because it continues to strike me how honest you are about the process of recovery, and how specific you are.

Some of our listeners may have been like, “Wait, what? Did he say crystal meth?” Yeah. Which I think is extremely vulnerable, and I’m curious about your decision and willingness to s- to speak honestly. And be- because you can… there are ways that you could dress that up. You could say, I struggled with drugs,” but you named specific drugs.

Yeah. A specific period. Yeah. And I w- I wanna I want you to share a little bit more about w- that decision and how it connects to some of the scholarly work you’re doing.

Quortne Hutchings: Yeah. No, I always, I’ve always shared that if you don’t name… And this is something, my personal belief is if you don’t name your substance, you can’t name your recovery.

And so I think that there often is a stigma, there’s a stigma and a judgment that happens when people say that, “I’m in recovery from this particular substance or this particular use.” And for many years, I would tell people I’ve been in recovery from hard illicit drugs, because I was fearful of how the world would perceive me, how, what does that look like for me as a faculty member who who is Black, who is queer, who is non-binary, right?

Like, all of these different intersections. And we also know that folks within those, w- folks within those different intersections also experience recovery differently. And everyone experiences recovery differently, but I also know that there’s a particular eye and a particular surveillance that happens.

And so I share the name of those pieces because it’s what happened to me. And it’s my experience. And I have to name that because now it’s- … now it’s not a space of denial- … of like we just know this person’s struggling from hard drugs. You can’t now deny the fact that you know this is my story.

And I’d rather be honest and truthful about my story because my hope is that it will help folks understand other people’s stories. And, and- Yeah … and I think that, that is the most important thing is now you know someone who’s in recovery from crystal meth. We often say I don’t know anybody that does this particular drug or this particular use.”

And I always say now you do.” And in a way just to acknowledge it, and I think that acknowledgement gives truth behind it and also has space to give people space to also learn about what is it to help support someone else in recovery. A- as my dear friend Dr. Becky Elkins says in our work, and we’ve done some work around recovery a special issue for recovery with About Campus so shout out to, to, to Z.

To shout out to her as well to a dear friend. And so I often think deeply I often think deeply about the role of recovery on college campuses and the role that higher education plays in or does or refuses to support folks in recovery. And so my recovery journey and my story is very much is very tethered to my research and my practice because we often need to think deeply about how does recovery happen on college campuses.

And as much as higher ed wants to acknowledge it or not acknowledge it, you have to assume that there is someone in the room that’s in recovery, and that is a quote directly from Dr. Becky Elkins. And so I think about that as a practice in my classroom, outside my classroom, to anybody, whether they’re in a college campus or not.

Helena Gardener: Thank you for that. Can

Quortne Hutchings: I- I would-

Helena Gardener: Can I steal?

Quortne Hutchings: Yeah,

Helena Gardener: go ahead. When you finish, I’m gonna steal too. Okay, thank you. I just, I am both thankful that you asked the question, JT, and thankful for you sharing. In doing Here’s the Story, the undercurrent really is to allow for folks doing this work to be humanized, but also the stories don’t our stories don’t always match, right?

We’re not matchy-matchy as humans. But to have the opportunity to understand all that we bring to the table to do the things that we do. And so I just, I am grateful- JT, that you asked the question, but Q that you shared, the fullness of you, because I think it also, it’s exactly what, it’s exactly what we hope to do.

So there’s that. But it also allows for the full picture of not only somebody’s in the room, but actually what you’re bringing to the table. It is, it’s very much, and so thank you for doing that work for yourself and for others so that we understand we’re just, we- we’re complex beings out here, and our stories continue.

They just continue. So just thank you for that. And yeah, this, these things continue to be the best things I think I’ve ever done for myself, was to make space for people’s stories. Because it you’re real and I’m real as being. So just I’m in the space, so thank you. JT, go ahead, because I

Quortne Hutchings: could emote forever.

C- can I share something really quick? Yeah. Sure. Just ’cause I often think that when we as folks who are teaching in the classroom, we often are t- told or not told how to show up in the classroom. We’re often told by others that you can’t be certain versions of you are, of who you are, and I very much am

I very much do a different practice where I try to bring my full self, or I make attempts to bring my full self into the classroom. Because our students are bringing their f- their full selves to the classroom. When my students walk into the classroom, they’re not just stopping their lives for, the, the four hours that we’re in class together, or the two and a half hours, or the eight hours that we’re in classes with my master’s and doc students.

These are folks with full lives. And s- and I can’t, I should not deny myself that s- that as well. And so- … while this experience was really hard and really challenging I thank, my colleagues and, the folks that, the folks, my students in particular, for seeing me. And I, and it gave me a space to see myself.

And there was that one instance where I did not see myself, and I think we often have to think of teaching as a full s- a full mind, body, and spiritual act. And you may not be spiritual, but there is some type of manifestation that shows up. And I think if we deny our bodies in the classroom, this can potentially be something that will happen, and I never want this to happen to anyone.

I never want anyone to work past their exhaustion in the classroom. But we also have to be mindful of if our bodies are already telling us that something is off, we as instructors should not just push past that. We should take a stop to pause and reflect, and think differently about what does that look like and what does it feel like.

J.T. Snipes: Wow. I wish we had a full other hour just to- … to mine some of the gems that you’ve opened up for us. I have so many questions just about community, but I think Helena already hit on it. Apologizing for our body, there’s a whole conversation that we could have about that, that you brought out. You’ve shared a little bit, just a snippet, around this notion of recovery, but so rich.

Q, thank you for your time. And-

Helena Gardener: And you’re always welcome back. You wanna talk some more.

J.T. Snipes: Always welcome back.

I appreciate it. Y- you said in your story that students got to see Quortne and doctor, not just Dr. Q. And I feel like the story you shared with us today allowed us to do the same, and allowed our listeners to do the same.

So we do have to wrap up, begrudgingly. I want to thank our s- our guest the, the venerable award-winning faculty member-

Quortne Hutchings: don’t

J.T. Snipes: do that. Dr. Hutchings. Don’t

Quortne Hutchings: do that. Don’t do that. Don’t do that. Don’t do that.

J.T. Snipes: For sharing his beautiful, for their, for sharing their beautiful story. I also wanna thank our sponsor, Evolve.

Higher education needs courageous leadership, now more than ever, and poor leadership has never been more costly. At Evolve Institute, we are empowering leaders with the capacity to turn challenges into possibilities, and to lead with and through clarity, confidence, and courage. We offer leadership coaching journeys for leadership teams and individuals.

Visit the Evolve Institute to learn more This has been Here’s the Story, part of the Student Affairs NOW family. We’re so glad that you joined us to laugh, cry, learn, and sometimes commiserate, but always celebrate being a part of the student affairs experience. If you have a story, and we all have a story, please consider sharing it with us by leaving a two-minute pitch via voice file at studentaffairsnow.com/heresthestory.

Every story is welcome and every earnest perspective is worthy. And even if you don’t feel like sharing yours, you can still find ours at studentaffairsnow.com, on YouTube, smash that subscribe button, and anywhere you listen to podcasts. Yes. This episode has been edited by Nat Ambrosey. Thank you for making us look and sound as good as we do.

We hope this has fed your flame a little bit, because your light matters. Keep using it to make the world a better place. Until next time, I’m J.T. Snipes.

Helena Gardener: Helena Gardner.

J.T. Snipes: And this has been Here’s the Story. This has been Here’s

Helena Gardener: the Story. Oh,

J.T. Snipes: almost synced. Almost synced.

Helena Gardener: We almost did it. We almost did it. Bye y’all.

Bye y’all.