Kyle Ashlee:
I think one of the, the takeaways and lessons from my work as a student affairs educator, that, that has really stuck with me in parenting is this idea of self work and looking inward and, and really doing my own work first. And so, you know, I really think about that with parenting because I think so much of what I’m teaching my daughter. It really starts with me. It starts with the, the model that I give her, the way that I go about you know, walking through the world.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Welcome to Student Affairs NOW. The online learning community for student affairs educators, I’m your host, Glenn DeGuzman and happy father’s day today in honor, of father’s day, week, we are sharing the perspectives of several fathers who work in or adjacent to student affairs in higher education. On this podcast today, we’re going to be discussing the many challenges facing our panel of guests as caregivers during the pandemic. The expectations placed on men as caregivers, as well as just various lenses and various joys, just being a dad and being a student affairs, professional, or higher education faculty member. I want to add that I’m really just really thrilled about this topic in part, because I have no clue what to expect from this panel. I just know they’re awesome fathers and they’re phenomenal and affairs, higher education professionals. So this will be really cool to just to hang out with them and talk story.

Glenn DeGuzman:
So before I introduce the guests today, I’m going to share more about our podcast sponsors. So and just our podcast in general. So Student Affairs NOW is the premier podcast and learning community for thousands of us who work in alongside or adjacent to the field of higher education and student affairs. We hope you’ll find these conversations, make a contribution to the field and are restorative to the profession. We release new episodes every Wednesday. And you can find us at studentaffairsnow.com, YouTube, or anywhere you listen to podcasts. And let’s talk about our sponsors really quickly because we would not have these if it wasn’t for them. So our first sponsor of today’s show is Simplicity, a true partner, Simplicity supports all aspects of student life with technology platforms that empower institutions to make data driven decisions and by Stylus publishing, visit Styluspub.com.

Glenn DeGuzman:
And if you use promo code SA now, so SA now you get 30% off and free shipping cannot beat that deal. So at the end of the podcast, I’ll share a little bit more about our sponsors but let me re introduce myself again. My name is Glenn DeGuzman. I use he, him, his pronouns, I’m the associate Dean of students and director of residential life at the University of California Berkeley. And I’m recording this episode from Livermore, California, which is the ancestral home of the unseated territory of the Pelman tribe of the Aloni peoples and my awesome panel of dads. I want to welcome Donnie Brooks from Macalester college, Kyle Ashlee from St. Cloud state university, Wilson Olo from the Penn state university and Keith Humphrey from Cal poly San Louis Obispo. Welcome to the podcast

Glenn DeGuzman:
So we’re talking about being a dad. So let’s start with introductions. Let’s get the audience to know your awesomeness a little bit better. So let’s start with, oh, and not just your awesomeness, but your kid’s awesomeness. So make sure you send a shout out to your own kids, but let’s start with you Donnie. Tell us a little bit about you.

Donnie Brooks:
Hi, my name is Donnie Brooks and I serve as a director of athletics at Macalester College. I’ve been here over three years now and I am also a dad to Alana, 15 Peyton, who is 12 and Emmanuel, who just turned four years old. So happy birthday, Emmanuel on the hi to Alana and Peyton. I should also shout out my partner in this in this game life Chevy Brooks. So happy to be here with you all today.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thanks Donnie Kyle,

Kyle Ashlee:
Everybody. My name’s Kyle Ashlee. He him pronouns I’m calling in from the stolen lands at the Dakota and Ojibwe people in Minneapolis, Minnesota. And I do a lot of different things. Primarily. I am an a adjunct faculty member at St. Cloud State University in the college counseling and student development program. I also do some consulting with my partner and wife, Ariel Ashlee. We also are a co-parenting team as well, and I couldn’t be here and I couldn’t talk about parenting award for her as well. So definitely gotta give her a shout out. My daughter is Azalia Ashlee, she’s three and a half years old going on 13. She loves pink and princess dresses and crowns and all things Disney. So that is the phase that we’re going through right now. And then in addition to all that, I am a practicing yogi, and I am going through yoga teacher training and going to be starting teaching yoga in the fall. And so those breathing techniques come in very handy when there are meltdowns and loss of patience. So it’s, it’s a handy tool to use for, for parenting and for, for work as well. So happy to be here,

Glenn DeGuzman:
Happy to have you here as well. Wilson

Wilson Okello:
Greetings, greetings everybody. My name is Wilson Okello. I am a, a son, a brother, a friend, a godfather a partner and husband to Morgan Okello, a confidante curator steward of dreams, father to a curious joy filled and I like to say everything good. One year old 13 months now named August Okello and so excited to be here. My pronouns are he him I am an assistant professor at the Pennsylvania State University. My work is interdisciplinary in nature and draws on theories of blackness and black feminist theories to think about knowledge, production and student development theory. I also think, and concerned about racialized stress and trauma, qualitative inquiry, critical masculinities and curriculum and pedagogy. I joined you today from my home current home in Wilmington, North Carolina. Wilmington, North Carolina is located on the traditional territory of the Catawba people. And as long served as a site of meeting in exchange in the Eastern band of Cherokee. It’s also important that I name Wilmington as a multi-generational site to violence and dispossession, whereas African ascend people we’re so traded and subject to the violence of massacre. I’m excited to be here excited to just be in community with you all.

Glenn DeGuzman:
I’m excited as well. And Keith,

Keith Humphrey:
Hi everybody. My name’s Keith Humphrey. I use he him, his pronouns. I’m speaking to you today from the Homeland in California, I’m vice president for student affairs at Cal poly. I’ve, I’ve been in this role for 10 years. I started this role when my children were four and six and, and now they’re teenagers. So I’m not sure what, what is easier being vice president for student affairs or parents of teenagers. But they are two absolutely amazing individuals that my husband and I adopted. When we lived in Arizona, we were foster parents for many years and found our family through that fantastic experience. And so just excited to be with you all today.

Glenn DeGuzman:
I’m excited to have this group here and that’s actually a really good question. What is harder being a parent or being a student affairs professional, or a higher education administrator or faculty member? Well, this is, this is a special episode and it came to be because our or, you know, our fellow Student Affairs NOW podcast host Heather Shea hosted a mother’s day student affairs episode last month. And the idea really generated from a panel discussion at ACPA about student affairs moms. And I believe they have a face group group called Sams inspired this episode. And as a result we’re here. So I just want to know, because when, you know, we had a, when I outreached to all of you, you all that quickly said, yes, I would love to be part of this conversation. So I want to hear from you why you agreed to join this conversation today and let’s start with you, Kyle.

Kyle Ashlee:
Sure. Yeah. So, you know, I love talking about being a dad in any context and any situation. I often call my daughter my greatest teacher because I just feel like my life completely changed. And, and it sounds cliche, of course, you know, every, every dad will say that to some degree. But yeah, I just, I really feel like my life really changed and took on a deeper meaning when my daughter arrived. And so any chance I get to talk about that and process that, especially with other dads, it’s, it’s like gold because there’s so much that happens in fatherhood on a daily basis that like, you know, even if you have great communication with your partner and you can, you know, chat about that stuff, there’s still so much that, that you can process and work through. And so, yeah, I’m mostly just interested in, in hearing the perspectives and viewpoints of these other great dads and the things that they’ve learned along the way. So that’s really why I’m here.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thanks, Kyle, Wilson. Why are you here?

Wilson Okello:
So, so Glen, you mentioned the some enthusiasm when we got that email I’m going to, I’ll be honest, there was some hesitation from for me, there was some hesitation. And I, you know, there was hesitation really because I feel like I’m, I’m still very new to this 13 months about August sort of being present in the world. But if we sort of think about the pregnancy you know, it’s, it’s close to two years of, you know, preparing to, or, or being a father and selfishly, I just, I have a lot to learn. Right. And so the opportunity, as Kyle mentioned to be in conversation with other parents and caregivers just felt like a chance to gather new strategies, to share some of my emerging, you know, emerging thoughts really grapple with what I’m finding are an endless set of questions that come along with the gift and responsibility of raising children in this world.

Wilson Okello:
And so generally I can, I can stand a certain degree of uncertainty in my life. It allows for flexibility, right? Shifts, movements, but parenting I found right, is it, I mean, it’s an ongoing sort of sense of uncertainty, right? There are very few clear answers. You know, particularly for someone who can appreciate that sometimes in their work. And so you know, an opportunity to name publicly that I’m still figuring this out to try to figure out what it means to be a black CIS man, attempting to raise a black child in this world a world that in endless ways communicates to him or will communicate to him that he isn’t valued, that he, that they have little expectation of him. I mean, these are all things that, you know, I think I’m, I’m already grappling with. And so the opportunity to kind of name that publicly and to be in conversation with other folks who you know, I’m certain of these things crossed their mind felt like an opportunity. So

Glenn DeGuzman:
I actually appreciate that response because the, the authenticity and honesty of that. Cause I know that, you know, and I didn’t share in the beginning, I I’m a father of an 18 year old boy and a young man, not really, and a 16 year old women and these conversations, these topics I still grapple with. So it doesn’t go away and you’re right. The conversations that I’m able to have with others, like including this conversation, I think will be, I think it’s really be very generative for just listening and just kind of just trading, sharing notes and dad jokes at the end, Keith.

Keith Humphrey:
You know, I joined for some of the same reasons that Kyle and Wilson shared. Like I learned so much from my children. I learned so much about myself from my children. I also you know, really struggle with raising racially different children. One of my children is a native Mexican and one of them is native American. And so they’re being raised by two gay white guys. And so there’s a lot of identity issues going on in our house that we have to navigate in including how we came together as a family. So I always look to learn and listen from others in that space. But, but I also thought it was important to be here as someone who is a vice president for student affairs, to be able to really set the tone that no matter what we do in our jobs, we’re, we’re our biggest responsibility is to our families.

Keith Humphrey:
And so as a leader in my division, I try to do that. I am known from getting up and walking away from work in the middle of meetings, even in, in the middle of meetings with my president, if something comes up for my kids. And so I think that that’s really important to do, to speak out loud because I want to make sure that the same privileges that I have as a VP, the coordinator and entry level staff member in, in my division has to be able to take care of their family first.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you for sharing that. And Donnie

Donnie Brooks:
Similar to Keith’s point family is, is the strongest in my short list of core values. And for me it’s always a, a family first decision. And so as I’ve grown as a parent, you know, I’m really, I’m still growing honestly. So what compelled me to join this is I thought there one would be a great opportunity for me to talk and discuss, listen, and potentially hopefully show how I can model being a better parent, maybe a better father for someone who may be listening. And then I also think I was a beneficiary of just having a unbelievable father growing up. My father did not take on a traditional role in our household. You know, he picked us up and dropped us off at schools. He cooked the meals in the household. But I, you know, I was probably one of the only kids for several blocks who had their father in the household. And so that experience of growing up with that dad just led me to aspire to be more like Arrow C. Brooks every day.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Wow. Thanks for, for sharing. And I’m, I’ll just happy that you agreed to be here and and let’s dive further into some of your perspectives and just insight. Kyle I want your take on this one. So, you know, just from listening to all of you in just opening question, just getting the sense of, there’s still a lot of learning we’re still trying to under, you know, what it means to be a father. And I read this article that talked about the challenges of being a full-time professional and also being a full-time dad, right. Because it, you know, being full-time dad, you’re still constantly learning. There’s so many challenges that we’re experiencing is trying to figure things out. But what, there are the article let’s talk about the challenges that student affairs, profe, not student affairs, professional, but professionals in general, but I’m thinking about student affairs professionals, specifically the challenge they have of trying to balance what is a very involved, like a career where you’re engaging with other students all the time, but also trying to be fully present with their kids. And how do you find time for yourself? Because you’re, you’re constantly giving to the college campus and to the students and you’re giving to your kids. When, when do you have time for yourself?

Kyle Ashlee:
Yeah, that’s a great question. I , I also sort of feel like maybe I’m not the best person to ask about this because I’m, I’m definitely still figuring this out, but you know, I think balance is something that, you know, to be honest, I kind of threw out the window when my daughter was born. And not because I don’t think balance is important, but I think the idea of having separate lives of dividing myself up into pieces I just couldn’t, I couldn’t navigate, I couldn’t manage that anymore. And so I think when my daughter was born, I kind of made this decision that I was just going to live wholeheartedly. And so just be my full self in everything that I do. And so , in some ways, you know, I was trying to navigate like, how am I going to talk about this in the podcast?

Kyle Ashlee:
Because pretty much since my daughter’s been born, I’ve kind of like slowly but surely taken more and more steps like away from the field of student affairs. And so I’m still, you know, very much involved. I teach and do some leadership things. I write do some consulting, but it feels like every day I get closer and closer to my family and a little bit further away from sort of this former professional identity that I had. I went through this whole transition where I graduated from my PhD. My daughter was about six months old. We moved here to Minnesota and I kind of made the decision that I was just going to be with her full time. And so I did that for almost a year until, you know, I had some different opportunities teaching opportunities come along, but in that year, I really grew a lot in terms of my understanding of myself as a father and sort of understanding that that identity that I had for myself as a student affairs professional was not as fulfilling as maybe it had previously been for me.

Kyle Ashlee:
And so was a difficult process to sort of shed, you know, shed that skin because I really held tightly to it. You know, it was an identity that really brought me a lot of self worth. You know, I put a lot of my self worth in that professional identity for a long time, but when my daughter was born, I just saw that you know, the fulfillment that I got from my professional identity, just in many ways, it pales in comparison to the fulfillment that I get from being with my daughter and spending time with my family. And so now, you know, what, what I really kind of focus on, especially when I’m, when I’m working and when I’m, I’m with my students. And when I’m teaching is thinking about how that time can also enrich my time with my family.

Kyle Ashlee:
You know, how I can take lessons from my teaching, how I can take lessons from my students and bring that into my family life and then vice versa when I’m with my family, you know, there are some things that I say, oh, you know, this principal actually could apply really well. I remember I did a lecture in one of my classes where I used the very hungry caterpillar as sort of like the the example to help the students understand some of ’em may have like some of ’em maybe didn’t, but regardless the, the idea is that, you know these lines that we draw between our worlds they don’t have to be so rigid. And, and I think for me, I found a little bit of peace in, in blurring some of those lines and, and letting them, and with the pandemic. It really, you know, in some ways I haven’t even really had a choice, those lines have started to blur themselves. So that, that’s just a little bit of perspective I have on that, but I’m sure the other, the other folks on the panel probably have a lot more share.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thanks, Kyle. You know, I know for me personally, you know, when it’s interesting to hear your story, Kyle, because my daughter was born in oh five and I was in the midst of my doctoral program. Two things emerged that one, I lost all my hair during that time period, but I think the other part was I, similarly I had to make sacrifices. I knew that there was always going to be more work. It’s just the nature field, but I also had to make tough choices to let go, right. Like I think, and Keith, because I know you’re very in love with ACPA. I think during that time period, I stopped going to conferences. I stopped get because I had to make those choices because I had to find time still working overtime, but still finding time to just be able to spend with my kids.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Right. That was my, that was what was bringing me joy. You brought up the pandemic and Wilson, I want to direct this question to you and it’s about the, obviously we’re still, I, like, I still say we’re still in the pandemic. But there was a period of time obviously when we were in sheltering in place, but I’m just curious to hear your thoughts on some of the most challenging aspects just generally or specifically over the past two years and your as a dad and a, and a professional in our field with a one year old, what was that experience like?

Wilson Okello:
So if you ask it’s depending on the day I don’t remember it because it felt like it felt like such a blur. You know, I really appreciate Kyle’s mention this notion of what I was hearing is this notion of integration and figuring out ways in which we can marry the, the various parts of our lives and ways that with this, this seamless thread, if you will perhaps not seamless, but there’s a thread that runs throughout each of those pieces. And so so thank you for, for bringing that into the space. You know, as I like many others notions of safety I mentioned uncertainty we’re at their height in many ways during COVID during this past year or these past couple of years my partner carried for much of the first year of the pandemic and our little one was only months old or born, you know, months old as the second sort of iteration of pandemic was was really taking hold.

Wilson Okello:
And so, you know, we tried really hard to keep ourselves healthy, right? Mostly that meant keeping our distance from family and friends. Now we value connection, right? We particularly intimate space with family and friends. My partner comes from a very small family. There’s a handful of them, but they are all sort of very tight kni. I come from a family where my mother had eight brothers and sisters. And I remember you know, the, the various holidays and sort of family gatherings coming together and just sharing the various sort of intimate space. So I mentioned not to say that we both come from very sort of tight knit community and when a child into, into our village, so to speak it’s a community event, right? It’s a family event. And so we weren’t able to do that for largely for the, for the two years.

Wilson Okello:
And so it was just us figuring out how to be new parents in isolation, in an isolation of sorts. Now we got creative, right. We had to think with, you know, various sort of technologies that were available to us FaceTime so on and so forth. And that helps, but it’s hard to replicate what it means to sort of share space. And so in some ways we, we really missed the intimacy and really missed emerging August our son into community in ways that I think were, were palpable, right. That he could be touched, that he could be felt. And so I think that was probably one of the, the main things I think that that really surfaced for us. Additionally, I’m also thinking about I, this identity as dad as not just sort of being a father to August, but being partner as well.

Wilson Okello:
Right. And the ways I allowed being a father to supersede my responsibilities as a partner unintentionally, but I think my partner felt perhaps lonely at, you know in some ways felt like I was prioritizing August of, you know, baby in some ways and, you know, work and trying to figure out how to keep that moving in some ways that you know, if I had an opportunity, I would just do differently, right. As I’m was learning how to, to do this over the course of this past two years. Right. I mentioned so to the pregnancy, but there’s also the postpartum and while, you know, grateful to say that they were, you know, healthy, so to speak healthy pregnancy and postpartum, I was, I think it was still hard. Right. and so to do those things you know, me being task oriented, right.

Wilson Okello:
So doing the grocery shopping and doing the cooking, doing the, the washing, all those things matter. But sometimes forgetting the to be sort of present in a more intimate way. Right. with the partner, making sure that she was sort of, well again are things I would probably want to address and do differently. So I say that to say that I think the pandemic it, it felt like figuring out how to be whole right, and be offer a hundred percent to both my partner and to our child in ways I think that were just yeah, they were, they were with so much time, right. Invest. It was just us, like that’s said this very intimate space figuring out how to do that consistently was, was probably one of the, I think the challenges that sort of really surfaced for me. So things I’m still negotiating, but have a better sense of as, as we’re sort of you know, moving into a, sort of a different space. So

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you for sharing that. Very honest and you know your, your truth and, and not only the relation between you and child, but you and you and partner, I think that’s oftentimes that’s critical. And I appreciate you sharing that. So thank you Donnie you know, you know, obviously the pandemic, I want to stay on the pandemic a little bit and, you know, were there strategies, or were there insights or things that emerged for you that, that intersected with your identity as a higher education professional and father?

Donnie Brooks:
Yeah. you know, as we, I started to, to listen to Wilson, talk about this, you know, it just takes me back to this memory of my son being on my shoulder. He couldn’t, we did not put him in daycare early in the pandemic and him being in a lot of my meetings, and I remember this one time vividly, he had dug into his diaper and I smelled this smell on me, and I immediately had to go on mute cause he had just wiped, poop all over my shirt. And those are some of the memories that, you know, although I don’t want to relive those again, like you, I mean, you’ll, you’ll never forget the time that you got to spend as a family when you could not be in office in some cases for some folks. And, but what I realized after listening to that is I actually got to see my son grow.

Donnie Brooks:
Like I didn’t get to see my two girls grow. And I think that’s kind of changed my approach. Also during the pandemic, my wife, it has now taken on a full-time job as a pre-K and kindergarten teacher which means she’s out of the, the house earlier than I am. So I get to make sure everybody gets on the bus and gets to, gets to school. And you know, what as selfish as I was trying to be the work at seven 30, get my workout be in the office by eight 30. So I could get running on emails. What you realize is none of that stuff, that’s all going to be here. It is still going to be here where you get in the office at nine and you could get your workout later on in the day. And so I think that that adapting has shown me like it doesn’t have to be done the way we did it before.

Donnie Brooks:
I, as I see the comfort level of our staff meeting from everywhere they’re on the road recruiting and they can hop onto a staff meeting and kind of our role is just really be present where wherever you are. Right. and so I think it it’s really been a learning experience for me to have the desire to be in person, but for me to learn that people can be productive from a lot of different places. And that includes me which means that sometimes I don’t always have to be the first one in or the last one to go from the office and that, that I can be productive outside of this space as well. And I, my hope is that that’s changed some of the pressure that folks may feel to, to always be around or always be in. So some of the things I continue to, to, to work on improving, changing but, but I will say I have left the pandemic change and a little less, less selfish about having to be the face always around. There are other qualified people and if I’m truly a developer of leaders I should be developing other folks to show up and lead in a way that I know they were, they have been capable of.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thanks, Donnie, Keith, you want to add to that?

Keith Humphrey:
Sure. Donnie, you know, your story about getting some poop on your shirt reminded me of a time, oh, dozen or so years ago where we have all those childcare days and I had to bring the kid to the meeting and the meeting went too long and the diaper got too full and I had to leave the meeting because I was so wet. So, you know, that stuff happened in person too, quite quite a professional milestone for me. As I, but, you know, as I think about the pandemic I did so many events from around the kitchen table with, with my kids around, I was able to do the, do those events on campus and then close the laptop and be present with them. And so what I’ve tried to do as we have come back to being in person this past year is really to not have to be present all the time for the entire duration of any event that I can be there at the beginning.

Keith Humphrey:
I can visit with students, I can support my staff. I can cheer folks on and then I can leave and go home and, and see my kids and have dinner with them or connect with them about their day before they go to bed. And, and know that I’m, I’m still serving in my professional capacity really well. And so I’m just, I think the pandemic has helped me try to strike a higher level of balance. I know that’s something that we’re always trying to do in this work. But it definitely has helped me to know when and where I can just step away and walk away and still be okay. And successful in my role the next day.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. So I want to go back to you Donnie, given your involvement with athletics. And am I going to, I’m going to shift my question a little bit, because I want to also open up to the group if they want to add on this. But I think for those who know me, you know my kids are, are involved in sports. And I’ve always been hyper aware I’ve I was involved in this person. I’ve always been hyper aware of just educating my son and really, and you know, both my kids, but about, but just the habits that oftentimes learned parti with boys in, in, in locker room, like locker room and tell. And I know that 2013 was I go back to that year, cause it was a really rough one because I remember making the choice to have a conversation with my kids who were young teenagers at the time about Larry Nasser and USA gymnastics, since my kids are into TaeKwonDo and it’s Olympic sport, I thought, great context, great background.

Glenn DeGuzman:
But I remember what was in my head and what the conversation ensued did not go according to plan. It was a really tough conversation. And we talked about, I tried to, my end goal was to talk to them about what role they can play as they’re growing up to, to be part of the solution to, to, to to end sexual assault and violence and also to understand what your voice and, and what you can do to protect yourselves. And, and I, and, and that is a microcosm, just the many different things that I oftentimes pull from my work in student affairs. You know, in higher education, just about like using case examples looking at anti-Asian hate looking at the black lives matter movement, just different things, the national unrest and racial violence, using that to have a conversation I sometimes wonder, is it too much because it is too much.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Right. but I can’t stop not wanting to have these conversations because I want them to be as informed as possible. I have this fear this anxiety that I haven’t done enough, but I’m also having this fear that maybe I’m doing too much. I’m curious to hear your take on, how do you approach talking to your kids about these topics of violence of hate? That’s often perpetuated by, you know, and it happens in all directions, but you know, for the sake of this conversation, let’s say, you know by boys or those who identify as boys.

Donnie Brooks:
Yeah. It’s it’s one, I will say that became easier over time because my first two children born were my two girls. And so you, you noticed pretty quickly a change in you as a father when you become a father of these young girls and, and now young women because you want them to be able to not only, you know, be, be willing and able to let you know when something’s wrong. So they, you know, you want them to be able to confide in you as a dad, but you also want them to be able to stand up for themselves. And so I started teaching my daughters pretty quickly some may, may not agree with me, but I, my father could quote Bible scripture and curse you out in the same sentence. And and I heard a comedian once tell a story about how to keep somebody from putting their hands on your kids.

Donnie Brooks:
And so my, my, I feel like my, my daughters have the skill set to debate you intellectually, particularly, or profanely if you come at them the wrong way. And a part of that is really about teaching leadership. Like, I need them to be able to step up when they see something wrong. And my hope is I’ve done it well enough that they will when they see something wrong. And I believe they do because they often now tell me when they see something that I do is wrong, but I I’ll also say that you know, we we’ve been here in the twin cities during the pandemic, you know ironically I was born in the same city and same neighborhood where George Floyd is from and watched him die at the hands of police here in the twin cities. And while we were, you know, avoiding trying to get COVID, you know, my youngest or my, my I would say both my daughters really wanted to be a part of protest.

Donnie Brooks:
And we did a actually did a, a kid’s protest with them here in the twin cities. And so it, it’s an , this parenting is an imperfect art. And what you have to do is put as much good stuff as you can into them and hope that the receipts at the end of the day show that that they’re good things that will come from them. But that, that’s kind of my, my best advice, but, it does, it doesn’t get easier, but I will say, you know, the things that my father used to say to me, sometimes I find him talking to me, like, I’ll say those things he used to say to me, and those are the same kind of good lessons that I’m trying to pass on to my daughters. And my hope is that with enough practice, that those opportunities are leading to them saying those same things as well.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thanks for sharing that. My biggest fear played out in 2012 during the Sandy Hook elementary incident. I, at the time, my, my partner and I, we chose not to talk to our kids about it. They were nine and seven respectively at the time, but we did talk a lot about how we were going to change things as we raised our own kids. And what just happened in Ulvade, Texas has just been so profoundly sad. And quite frankly, I say sad, but on social media, I’ve been very angry. Keith, this question that’s directed to you, how has that impacted you as a student affairs, professional and father knowing you were raising your kids in a society where this can happen?

Keith Humphrey:
Yeah. You know, I remember Sandy Hook very well. I grew up in a community very close to Sandy Hook, so that one hit a little personally the, the shooting last week in Ulvade in the, in Buffalo, there’s just far too many of these things, excuse me, that are happening in the world. And it’s been occupying my thoughts, you know, I remember the morning after the Ulvade, I was doing the normal thing. I was arguing with the kids about getting out of bed what they were eating for breakfast, what they were wearing for school to that day that I didn’t think was appropriate. And and I stopped and realized how grateful I was for that moment, because there were 19 other parents that would want desperately to have those arguments that same morning with their kids and how fortunate I was.

Keith Humphrey:
And it it’s really hard to not feel completely, totally helpless or powerless. And I think that’s normal and I, you know, I think we have to allow ourselves to be in that space. And then for me, what I try to do is come back to my role as an educator in this moment, you know, trying to be someone who helps to create welcoming and supportive communities so that we’re focusing on, on health and wellbeing knowing that that’s more important than ever creating socially just communities where difference, isn’t a division, but, but something that’s really valued and expected creating those educated individuals who are going to go out, change the world impact society through their actions or votes. It’s really hard as a student affairs professional to, to look back at these things and, and try to figure out what we could do to prevent them.

Keith Humphrey:
But, you know, I think there’s things that we can do in our work and our leadership that can really impact the future. And that’s where I try to find comfort and direction and, and like everything else. I hug my kids a little harder, a little longer when these things happen because, it’s a great fear. And I look at their schools like the way I’ve never looked at a school before when you drop them off, are the fences, there are, what are the, you know, where are the points of entry? All, all of the, all of the things that we learned back in our early days being hall directors come, come rushing back to us as, as I’m taking someone to a middle school. And it, it, there’s just some disonance there.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Wow. You just, you, that last comment you made. Yeah, I do that too, right. I’m very familiar with the layout of our, the kids, my kids school, all of them from elementary, middle. I knew the layout. It’s interesting that I actually have to think about that stuff. And I took that directly from being, you know, in res life. So that’s really interesting. I wanted to just invite the group if anybody else wants to add any other thoughts on that. I know that’s a tough conversation and tough topic to discuss.

Donnie Brooks:
I was on a ride home with my daughters. I did the other day. And and they’re at two different schools. And my 15 year old said they didn’t talk about it at all. And my 12 year old said a lot of students were talking about it. It’s one of the most challenging discussions because you never like to have a discussion with your kids about, you may be in a situation where somebody is, is going to do some serious harm, not like that, the kind of old school harm where used to have, where you would go get beat up or jumped, you know? But it’s real and it’s it’s terrifying and terrifying and you want to avoid it. And I think in some cases, you know, it’s also hard because we’ve become so numb to it. Like we just woke up and went to school the next day after, you know, there’s no national day of mourning. There’s no institutional day of mourning, we wake up and we go, we go to school the next day. And you know, that, that was the, the kind of question we talked about, you know, but I don’t, I don’t, that’s one that I don’t know if I have or will have the right answer for, but I will say that I do extremely concerned. And, and like you mentioned, Keith, continue to just hug tight, but it can be the answer. It can’t continue to be the answer

Glenn DeGuzman:
That that’s definitely real. Wilson. Oh, okay. Well I’m going to, it’s interesting, because I have to transition from these really tough questions and these tough conversations. And then I’m, I’ve gone to the section where well, I’m actually just going to transition because I we’re going to hug our kids tight tonight and we’re going to tell ’em a dad joke. So you know, we, I need to, I need to build on my collection of dad jokes because I keep using the same one over and over again. So I invite the group, you know, to share with our audience a cool, you know, what’s interesting. I have a staff member who actually tells dad jokes, not dad, but loves to tell dad jokes at our, to open our staff meetings. And I just love it. So shout out to Sammy, but who wants to start, I’d like to hear a dad joke. We, we let’s share dad jokes.

Kyle Ashlee:
I can get us started. So you know, that is a tough transition from talking about you know, these, these school shootings to talking about dad jokes, but you know, I think for me, you know, when thinking about the, the gravity and the weight of a situation like, you know, what our nation experienced a couple weeks ago for me, it just makes me want to be present with my daughter for every moment, because the truth is we, we don’t have control. We don’t know when something like this is going to happen. We don’t know when anything’s going to happen. Right. It could, they could get hurt at any time and any, you know, it could be any number of reasons. And so for me, it’s really about trying to be present in the moment and using my tool of mindfulness. I mentioned yoga and mindfulness is something that, that I practice, but also something that I use in my parenting.

Kyle Ashlee:
And it, it’s amazing because it really helps me to not miss these beautiful moments with my child when I have them, because we just never know when we’re not going to have them. Right. and so one of those beautiful moments recently has been my daughter is learning what a joke is. You know, that’s something for me that, you know, I take for granted. I know what a joke is. I know like what a punchline is and how it’s supposed to play out. Right. But but for her, of course she’s learning everything new in the world. Everything is new. And so one of those things is how to tell a joke and what a joke means. And so the other day she came up to me and she was really excited because she had spent the weekend with her grandma and her grandma loves telling jokes. And so she came up to me and she said, dad, what do you, what, what, what is a sheep with no legs? You could tell. She had like practiced it. And I said, I don’t know, baby, what is it? And she said a cloud.

Kyle Ashlee:
And she just cracked up laughing. She thought it was so funny. And so that was, you know, just one of those, those moments that I, I don’t want to miss that. Right. Like you, you don’t want to be somewhere else in your mind because you never know when you’re going to get those moments back. So so that’s my, my contribution to the dad joke.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you for the contribution to the dad joke. And I just want it really quickly because you know, obviously when, when we build these podcasts and we’re trying to come up with questions, I think the thing that I’ve like, let’s do a dad joke, but then, you know, adding the question and then realizing like, okay, how do I transition from a very tough conversation to dad jokes? You know, I’m feeling it right here too right now. Cause I’m like, oh, that feels really uneasy. And how I did that. So similar to just being a parent, I don’t know if I did that. Right. So just to this group, to the audience out there, you know not my best moment, but that’s okay. You know, I just wanted to point that out cause it is a tough thing and it is, you know, I’m hoping it leads to good conversations out there with different with folks as we talk about the challenges of just the society we live in and the fact that you know, we also have, we play that role as being dads.

Donnie Brooks:
Glenn, I’ll also add now I probably wouldn’t do it in a one on meeting with the student. Right. But as we’ve gone through so much in the last two and a half years, the one thing I think we’re, we’re talking about a lot specifically on our campus is like gratitude and joy. And we have to find those moments of joy. And I think being you know, in any kind of unit, you have to find a way sometimes to smile and laugh at the, the experiences that we’re going through because they don’t last forever. And always, so I think the popularity of dad jokes is a, is a, is a good thing. I’m not sure why dads get these bad jokes. Like why can’t the great jokes be for dads. But but I do have I think two that I think make me laugh kinda hard every time I hear ’em. So why did the car smell bad? Why? Because it passed gas. I dont know that one makes me laugh so hard, but my second favorite one is how does the taco say grace, letuce us pray.

Donnie Brooks:
Oh goodness, my goodness. I can’t help it. Lettuce us pray.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Those are great dad jokes. Yeah. Is there one more, two more?

Keith Humphrey:
I don’t have any dad jokes. But what I, you know, I have teenagers, I said, so I love to find ways to embarrass them. And so I’ve always been the drop off dad at school. So I’ll offer this tip to folks who listen. You know, when you have those days when your, your kids are being jerks because they can be jerks. And if you have a fiercely independent child, like I do the best thing to do is to pull up to the front door of school and drop ’em off. And after they get outta the car, roll down the window and just shout, good goodbye. Robbie, daddy loves you. I love you so much be a good boy at school, you know, when they’re six foot, two and 14 years old goes over really well. So just a tip for, for the future, right?

Glenn DeGuzman:
It is our job to embarrass our kids. Every waking moment we have and, and, and I’m sure they’ll, they’re going to, they, maybe they don’t now, but later on, they’re going to love us for that. So we are at end of time and we always close with our wrap up question on, on our podcast since we’re called Student Affairs NOW, but if you can take a minute to summarize, what are you thinking about now? What are you pondering? What are you reflecting about? Also if you want to leave a message to your child or your children here, please go for it. I’m sure they can check it out. They can, they, they can, or they might like, like podcast for those who are younger that you can save it when they older. But let’s go ahead. And who would like to go first?

Keith Humphrey:
I’ll just jump in and say, you know, I’m just thinking about how, no matter what position we hold professionally this is being a parent, being a dad is by far the most important position that we hold every day. We get to do that professional role for partial of the day. But being a parent is always present. And I am, I I’m grateful for my children. You know, we, we chose them, they chose us. And we just learned from them every single day in, in so many ways. And I’m, I’m excited to tell them all about this when we get around the dinner table tonight.

Kyle Ashlee:
That’s great. So I can go next. I think one of the, the takeaways and lessons from my work as a student affairs educator, that, that has really stuck with me in parenting is this idea of self work and looking inward and, and really doing my own work first. And so, you know, I really think about that with parenting because I think so much of what I’m teaching my daughter. It really starts with me. It starts with the, the model that I give her, the way that I go about you know, walking through the world. It’s stuff that I won’t even mean to teach her, but that she’ll pick on pick up on because that’s just that’s just how I am. And so I think for me, it’s really trying to pay attention to those little moments when things happen.

Kyle Ashlee:
So and also acknowledging when I make mistakes. So this just happened yesterday. I picked my daughter up from school and her teacher came up to me and she said, so Azalia hit somebody at school today. And it was, you know, this very like, oh, we need to have a serious talk about this. And Azalia spoke up right away. My daughter, she said, well, he hit me first. And I said, this, this was without even thinking, this was just my first reaction. And I said, well, Azalia, what did you do to make him hit you? And, you know, we had the conversation and it kind of we resolved it and then we went home and on the drive home, I was thinking about that response where I said, well, what did you do to make him hit you? And I realized that that is exactly the same kind of mentality that men and others project onto women who have been the victims of sexual assault folks of color and people of color who have been the victim of racialized trauma.

Kyle Ashlee:
And so there, there are these little things that, you know, if you pay attention in parenting you plant the seeds for what children can expect and how they should expect to behave and be treated when moments like this happen. And so when we got home, I apologized to my daughter. I said, you know what, no matter what happened, no matter what, you know, transpired before that moment, where the boy hit you and you hit him none of that should have happened, you know, none of that should have happened. And I’m sorry, you know, I said, I’m sorry for, for making it seem like it was your fault. So I do think a big part of that too, is just owning up to our mistakes and recognizing, you know, when we, we are planting those seeds that are going to you know, reinforce that some of that negative stuff that we’re, we’re always trying to combat against in our work. So still more work to do still lots of learning to do, but, but grateful for the, the community here. Thank you, Kyle.

Donnie Brooks:
I’ll go. I, what I’m thinking about is, is as I, you know, work at a and work at several small private liberal arts colleges work with a ton of really high performing students who I see at this point, right? They everybody is so overwhelmed, right? They are, they are burned out. And the thing I think about is the, the, like the desires I have for my children versus the desires they have for themselves, you know, and how to, how to balance that as a parent, because as I have a 15 year old who’s in the ninth grade and I’m already pushing and trying to get her to think about the right kind of college you know, what, what does that that mean? It’s not, and I was fortunate that my parents made a way. And although I have her look looking at that list of 13 schools that are going to be tuition free I’m thinking about what, what does it look like to, for her to make her way and how do I support her and, and the others through that. But hopefully with as little as possible,

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you, Donnie and Wilson take us home.

Wilson Okello:
Yeah. Just really appreciate the conversation. I’m I’m still thinking a, a lot about your, your question. A couple of questions ago and still mourning for the families in Ulvade mourning for Buffalo morning for Laguna woods. I mean, there’s, there’s so much happening in and around us and what I’ve been thinking a lot about is this notion of hope and hope as a discipline, right? And notion of hope as a discipline is not precluding sadness. It’s not saying that frustration won’t happen. It’s not saying that you know it’s not, it’s, it’s calling us, I should say to a, a practice. Right. And I think about what Kyle talked about in terms of what we model for our children. But I also think about what we model for our colleagues and our partners and our communities around us. So yes, there are some hard conversations that intend to have with August likely very early because of the threat of violence that enwraps him by his NA by the nature of who he is and to continuously remind him of what hope can look like right.

Wilson Okello:
And how he can practice hope and how we practice hope. From day to day. So the function of hope as a discipline, I think as as parents is something that continues to direct me. And hopefully I can provide some something of use for for fathers, for parents, mothers out there. So, so thank you for the invitation to be part of this.

Glenn DeGuzman:
Thank you. And, and thank this panel. I’m really grateful, grateful for all the time. You’ve given today and just sharing your contributions to this conversation. I want to give appreciation to Nat Ambrosey, who does our behind the scenes work and as our production assistant. So thank you Nat. If you’re listening today and have not already been receiving our weekly newsletter, please visit our website at studentaffairsnow.com go to the bottom, add yourself to our MailChimp list. We’re there. Check out our archives as well. Our sponsors Simplicity is the global leader in student services, technology platforms with the state of the art technology that empowers institutions to make data driven decisions specific to their goals. A true partner to the, to the institution. Simplicity supports all aspects of student life, including, but not limited to career services and development student conduct and wellbeing, student success and accessibility services to learn more, visit simplicity.com or connect with them on Facebook, Twitter or LinkedIn. Stylus is also a proud sponsor of Student Affairs Now podcast browse their student affairs diversity professor development titles at Styluspub.com. Our promo codes a now for 30% off all books and free shipping, you can find Styluss on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, where are they not at? And just at Twitter at Styluss pub definitely visit our sponsors. And again, my name is Glen Guzman. I want to thank our listeners. I want to thank our panel. And just to everyone who is watching or listening, have a great father’s day and take care. Bye everybody.

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